Is there discrimination in American racing coverage?

  • Thread starter JohnBM01
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To ressurect an old topic, here is some very old news.

"Pardon the Interruption" co-hosts Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser answered a question about if Dale Earnhardt Jr. should be mentioned in the biggest names in sports. Wilbon responded yes since he said he was "the public face of the fastest-growing sport in America." Kornheiser responded by saying it is a "niched sport. It is a regional sport and is not as popular as football, basketball, or baseball."

I want to keep this topic open to people who still think that American racing coverage is biased.
 
For a fact the National Asociation of Stock Car Auto Racing (at least I believe that's the accurate breakdown of the series name) is the most popular motorsport in America, just under the NFL, which they're attemting to dethrone from the top spot now; for a fact it doesn't run the same way it did when it started becoming popular and left the NHRA in the dust; for a fact it's losing a fraction of its traditional fanbase every week because of all this change it's started implementing. This does not mean it'll implode or anything among those lines, quite the opposite, which makes for a final fact that anything else is overthrown when it comes to coverage.

Personally, I only like the trucks.
 
I only liked the trucks especially in 1999 because they:

1.) followed the CART series schedule at times
2.) road raced. I played NASCAR Racing 1999 on my PC, and the trucks race on a pretty tough road course (Heartland Topeka Park, in Kansas)

But now NASCAR trucks is basically ovals... snore... however, I will be watching Toyota's progress. When Juan Pablo Montoya raced for Chip Ganassi in 1999 in Champ Car, he won his first race on his third try. With the next race for the trucks, I wonder if the "3rd time will be a charm."

Someone on Wind Tunnel talked about how NASCAR is being like the NFL, with topics on substance abuse and the apparent talk of curbing cursing on TV (this was discussed once on "Pardon the Interruption). Of course, PTI mentioned the Daytona 500. Tony Kornheiser said that the Daytona 500 was basically "a bunch of cars racing around a track." Maybe in America, I'd say that it is possibly the second best race next to the Indy 500. I also think that the Grand Prix of the United States could have been run at Sebring, Watkins Glen, or Laguna Seca. But for the most part, as oppressed as I am to boring oval racing, if you don't like even NASCAR, stay away from auto racing. Don't bash on racing just because there are no sticks to swing with, balls to catch, 1st overall draft picks, bracketology (except in NHRA during regular races), or what have you. Get the hell away from auto racing if you think that Mario Andretti and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Jeff Gordon don't belong in the same ranks as Michael Vick, Brett Farve, Wilt Chamberlain, or what have you.

The only reason why I'm defending NASCAR in this situation is because it is auto racing, and I love auto racing. Even I side with the enemy when I have to. But discrimination in racing coverage isn't just NASCAR vs. ALMS. It can also mean pure sports reporters when auto racing is mentioned to them. But when it comes to sports and auto racing, if one person mentions Formula One or Le Mans as important as the Super Bowl or the World Series, I will TRULY respect that person.
 
Perhaps you should open up a little more to oval racing (including the fenders) What got me into the NCTS was the Tundra as a matter of fact. I intently watch the races and root for the Toyota teams.
Their last race at Atlanta was awesome, though it was Hamilton with his Dodge that stole Toyota's first win, you still can't beat that kind of racing, the Nextel cup race was a snooze fest in comparison.
 
This kinda reminds me of soccer and football. Everywhere else in the world likes soccer since it holds some or a whole lot of traditional value, but here we like football since it's our tradition. Throught time our motorsports outlook has changed. Road racing use to be huge, Indy use to be huge, nascar just has more action than those series. I like nascar, but I like road racing 10X more than nascar. As long as there is money to be made one sport will dominate all others in the same country. Especially when theres a demand for that sport.
 
This is great. I have raced stock cars (locally), snowmobiles, bikes, dirt and paved, and go karts. For thoughs who think stock cars are not real race cars. It takes alot to set them up so that you do not slam into a wall at close to 200 mph. Driving in the draft is not easy as the other cars try to suck you into them. I, as you can see, love racing. If it has a motor, I will watch it. Lately, NASCAR has lost a lot of its sparkel to me because it is becoming a spec class. This, I think,will be its decline. I have heard that NASCAR is looking at a spec motor that everyone will have to run. (rumor) and that the car manufactures have gotten together to voice thier concerns to NASCAR. If they pull out, that might be the death bell for them.
Do I fell that the tv coverage is bias? H*LL YES! But that is wear the money is. Money talks..... you know the rest.Iwould love to see more roadracing on tv. Any kind of roadracing, but until it can bring in the money, I can't see it happening soon. I do not hate NASCAR and I respect anyone who is willing to put thier life on the line to race.It takes a rare breed to do this that is why I watch all kinds of racing.
Cheers........
 
look at my name...........RallyF1, that's enough to tell you if i like ASSCAR or not. i hate them so much that before going to bed i kneel down on the side of the bed and i pray to god for the destruction to anything related to that motor sport.
i hate them so much that i e-mail spee tv every week cussing them and ASSCAR.
i hate them so much that i shreek with disgust if i was asked if i watch ASSCAR after i say i am a racing enthuthiast.
i hate them so much that i feel vomiting right.
i hate them so much ..............well i can not add anything else.
i am simply disgusted talking about how much i hate them........................:mad:
F them and F every Asscar Fan. those inbred morons................................................aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
i don't wanna talk about it anymore.
 
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
is this english enough for you.
O.K. your right i need that valume thung, ehre can i get it from!!!:D
 
As someone who's appriciated all sorts of motorsports, I'll be the first to say that the popularity NASCAR dwarfs all other racing coverage combined. But the heart of the mater is, that at least there's some racing coverage; it used to be the only outlet for televised racing was ESPN...it couldn't shell out the money for the rights to stick-and-ball sports, so stuff like billards, golf, bowling, and racing were shown in between airings of SportsCenter. But ESPN didn't go too far out of it's way to promote it's racing once it had rights to baseballl, college football and hoops, etc. in the early '90s.

When NASCAR became a Big Deal in the mid-90's, things changed a little. ESPN knew it was on a hot property, so it was promoted and advertised like any other sport. The ratings were great, and it had a great commentary crew to boot.

CART was quite popular in the mid-80's, but the spectale of NASCAR took over, and the IRL-CART split hasn't helped any in the past 10 years. F1, sports-cars, and rallying has always been a very slow to grow interest in the United States, at least. It's always had a bit of a cult following, but nothing more.

I do think, for all the NASCAR overexposure, it's allowed other forms of motorsport to join the fray, and gather interest in it's own right. There's actual acceptance of auto racing as a sport, and NASCAR is looking to become that "5th sport" after NFL, NBA, MBL, NHL in no time.

Is NASCAR boring to me? No, it's interesting now and then, something to watch over a beer or two with my buddies, but once the cars are spaced out to the point that nobody overtakes, there's little to keep me watching to the end. I'm still a fan of F1, but not as fanatical as i used to be. When the cars get far apart for position, then it's no more interesting than NASCAR.

Damnit, having a channel dedicated to mostly auto racing is fine by me.
 
Well yeah, all most any automotive racing is fine but.....

I tend to dislike NASCAR because Speed just does NASCAR most of the time.....
I need some more rally, toca, or any other automotive racing.
Focusing on NASCAR makes me a bit POed at Speed but hey atleast they do WRC on Sundays......
Well I wish there was more than oval racing to NASCAR...... Especially when NASCAR seems to be limiting the cars' speed with those limiter ring? things (I forgot what they were called:banghead: )..
 
Restrictor plates? They were first thought necessary when a car going at 200+ mph at Talladega went airborne and tore through the fence leaving quite a mess. IRL cars up into the fence aren't that serious in comparison to a stock car.
 
:eek:Any car going into a fence is bad.You have parts flying, fuel spilling,this is not good. Any car going 200 has a chance to go through the fence. NASCAR put restictors on to try and minimize the problem.
 
unless it's a nascar car, then it's good. the more they break them the better for us, actually me me me me me ME!!!!!!!!!!!
and yes i took that Valiym thing, i'm on it right now:mischievous:
anythig ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by JohnBM01
But let's see how they REALLY match up in America's favorite racing style:

PIT STOPS:
NASCAR: 15-20 sec, depending on which tires
F1: 4 tires and fuel, 5-15 seconds
Touring car: 5-10 seconds
Click to expand...


I have to point this out but you neglect a BIG thing. You really cant compare nascar's pitting to anyother motorsport since,

In nascar you only have 7 crew members changing all 4 tires and fueling the car+ they still use the conventional jack one side up method. And its acutally 13-14 seconds now. Only being 8-10 seconds off of a F1 stop is quite impressive when you look at the pit crew members "or lack there of members" and the old technoligcal methods that they use to change tires. Do remember that they have to carry the new tires around the car as it pits. None of that park the car inbetween the team and everything is already in place and ready to be put on. 5 lug nuts to remove and tighten up. Add in the crazy nascar rules with having to have your pit equiptment 1/2 way across the pit box when the car leaves then you have a big deal going on for 4 guys to take care of. The fuel man and catch cant leave their equiptment behind either. If it goes with the car then that's a penalty.

In F1 they have what 20ish guys? 12 just for changing tires, 2 fuel men, 2 jack men, lollypop guy, I know i'm missing some others. Force fed fuel delivery, the car is pitted inbetween the crew with everything already laid out and ready to put on. I'd like to see them crank out a 5-10 second pit stop if they had to lug everything out after the car entered the pit stall. With that many people it isnt going to happen cause everyone would be in everyones way.

Touring cars: There's more guys pitting them than nascar but less than F1, + the cars have the air jack systems. Rules are different for different series.

Now you could compare the 3 if they were all pitting in the same manner's. 13 seconds is still pretty freaking fast when you only have 4 guys changing tires, a jackman, fuel man, catch can man. Do note that the nascar fueling rigs are conventional gravity feed cans.

Now if nascar was doing F1 style pits then I can bet they would be in the 5-10 second range as well or even quicker, yes I said quicker.

I'd love to see F1 and nascar crews face off and attempt at doing the other series pitstops, I bet the F1 boys will have a fun time running around the car with a 100 lb tire.

Kinda like the ride exchange with Jeff Gordon and JPM did at indy last year.
 
Another thing I just thought of is the number of races each series runs. For example, Nextel Cup runs the 36 race schedule. Trans Am runs a 10 race or so schedule. F1 runs a 18 race schedule spanning from March to October. Nextel Cup (and NASCAR in general) takes about 40 weeks, or ten months. F1 runs 8 months but only 18 of those 32 weeks are race weekends. So to say racing coverage in America is "biased" would depend, I think, on the series' schedule.

Formula One: 32 weeks - 18 races
Nextel Cup: 40 weeks - 36 races
Trans Am: 28 weeks - 10 races

These are just examples of some of the racing series feartured on American television.
 
And to add to that list, what about the 60 or something races American sprint cars do? They run almost as many races as people in the NBA play before the coming of the postseason. I don't know. I just think that when a person likes to think of a racing series with great race cars, the first thing uttered would be a stock car. And to me, NASCAR has turned itself more into the NFL. You know, you have Busch on Saturdays and Nextel Cup on Sundays. The American football eqivalent would be college football on Saturdays and the NFL on Sundays and Monday Night. NASCAR has marketed itself beautifully so that you can't go anywhere without hearing NASCAR being mentioned. And while NASCAR is a racing series, to me, it is not THE racing series. Sure, a select audience will follow Formula One (and I'm talking about in America). But how often do you see Indy Cars being mentioned? How often do you see Formula One represented in sweepstakes and contests and stuff?

As I said, NASCAR is a serious marketing giant. I'm not saying that in a bad way, just that it's tough to get away from NASCAR. Maybe it is because... well, I kind of feel this way about American automobiles vs. Europe and Japan... American sportscars were pretty much designed to be supercars even if they don't look as exotic as in Europe or even racy like in Japan. So when it comes to marketing, let me see...

I see a NASCAR Commercial on Speed Channel recently and had NASCAR cars from the 1970s to the present. Old drivers from past and present. In 2002, Speed would host "NASCAR Classics" weekdays starting at 12PM eastern. Then Speed News has all-NASCAR news on Sundays. Then you got Trackside (which can be a cool show, don't get me wrong). NASCAR almost all-day Friday. Also don't forget all the products and stuff that have NASCAR race cars with a certain sponsor. So when it comes to marketing, let me ask these questions:

ADT sponsors the Champion Audi R8 team in the ALMS. How often do you hear of ADT being mentioned int its commercials? You don't hear of Dark Dog in Grand-Am. Marlboro had a contest some years back where people could win a chance to race these Trans-Am like GT1 cars and even Scuderia Ferrari was emblazoned in the sponsorship. Amerisuites is sponsored in Trans-Am and the ALMS. So, why is it so tough to not post these other cars rather than... oh yeah. What about Olive Garden sponsored by the 550 Maranellos in ALMS? But anyhow, a lot of the bigtime American companies will have these cheap stock cars, but if you want to be exposed to a race car that is more race car than anything in known space, why NASCAR? And you wonder why not a lot of people know about any race cars that doesn't do four turns and two straights. Road racing needs more exposure, but I guess as Americans, we kind of been "relegated" to stock cars and dirt trackers. You know, stay with the flow. Speed Channel is marketing NASCAR like it is the greatest series in the world, if not America. While oval racing is racing nonetheless, doesn't it seem to get old? Maybe some Americans aren't into heavy horsepower and heavyweight ground-pounders. Maybe some Americans are tired of ovals. You know, high speed, racing near the apron of the track, and doing it all over again. Why make a habit out of it? And why market it to be the best in the nation? I mean, if you want to have pure race cars racing great race tracks, just replace Monte Carlos, Tauruses, and Intrepids with Corvettes, Mustangs, and Vipers. Make them production-based, not the traditional non-functional lights and "climb in here to get in the car." Now sure it costs money, but at least you have sportscars to work with rather than glorified economy cars. And I mean, name me an economy car that received worldwide recognition after being glorified and winning a major race or race series. Name me one because I don't think I know any glorified cars. NASCAR is so great because it's been so marketed and people love it. By the way, Budweiser is sponsored on an F1 car, but the one in NASCAR is better known. Answer me that. Why isn't an F1 car used in Bud commercials than the DEI race car?
 
I have only seen 1 Bud commercail based on the F1 car and it their way of telling everyone that they are now in F1.
I think the number of races NASCAR dose helps bring in the sponcers. With 38 races and a cost on average of 10 million bucks, they seem to fell that they get more bang per dollar than in anyother form of racing. Carts problem is that most sponcers fell it is unstabel at this time and want to see what will happen in the next few years. Audi and corvette seem to be the only ones using thier ALMS cars in commercals(Cadi did to when they raced in P1), but they don't have commercals based on thier victory from the past weekend(like Sebering).In America, the oval is king. Nothing we can do about that at this time. Just go out and support all the roadraces that you can, and take some friends. If we can get the head count up, tne men with the big bucks might take notice.
I think that in Canada, roadracing gives the oval racing a good run for it's money. When CART comes up here, it is allways sold out.F1 too. I have noticed a decline at uor local oval track and more fans coming out to our kart races each year.One small town shuts down for 2 days a year so that they can host a street race for karts. It's amazing seeing fans on top of thier roof with chairs, drinking beer and cheering us on. Now thats a real blast!!!:cheers:
 
Originally posted by JohnBM01

But anyhow, a lot of the bigtime American companies will have these cheap stock cars, but if you want to be exposed to a race car that is more race car than anything in known space, why NASCAR?
Click to expand...

Well, John, I think it comes down to the original topic of this thread - the coverage. A "bigtime" company isn't gonna waste their time and money on a series that is only racing once or twice a month. . . they're gonna go to the series that gets the most coverage so that they can get their name out there. They're also gonna go to the series that gets the most fans. . . once again, to get their name out there. Now I'm not saying that no one in America watches anything but NASCAR, but the majority of US racing fans do watch NASCAR.

Please, don't think that I only like NASCAR, mainly because of my signature, because I watch all kinds of auto racing. And I can't wait for tomorrow's F1 race. . . the first for this new track.
 
Well when you really look at the two budwiser sponsorships you can make the obvious note that theres the bud car "8 dale jr" and then theres the small budwiser text on the Williams BMW with HP being the major sponsor. Now from a marketing standpoint would you make a milllion dollar commercial about the nextel cup car that is painted in your colors and has your name on it in huge text or would you have the same commercial with the F1 sponsored car, but you'll be making the commercial for HP as well since they are the major sponsor of the Williams team. You could take their name off the car but that would mean you would have to go thru red tape, lawyers, or even pay royalties to HP for them allowing you to show the car without their name on it. Why put up with that mess when you can easily make the bud car commercial for far less than what it would cost if it was the F1.

If budwiser was the main sponsor of the williams team then they would/should make just as many commercials with the F1 as they do with the bud car.
 
(very late) BREAKING NEWS:

The Stock Car Championship Series ( http://www.sccsracing.com/ ) has cancelled its season for 2004. Why did I mention this series? It is litttle known in America, but these stock cars run road races. And I don't think any machine from SCCS has been shown in commercials. They are still "tanks," but they have the guts to race ovals. And as a big difference, they run in the rain. But no one gives them any attention, because the oval guys and gals are taking the spotlight. I was quite fascinated to learn about this stock car series. I suggest to people to look into this series if you are into stock cars. You can take a look at how the series got started and what it was there for. But still, the series isn't NASCAR, so no one cares about it as much.

But sure. I'll support road racing like any race fan would support his/her favorite series. It's just that as a road racing fan, I feel alienated from American racing. So I'm "relegated" to oval racing and dirt tracking coverage. When it gets to be too much to bear, you begin to hope that there can be something other than ovals and oval racing terms. These include: "boogity, boogity, boogity!," "turn them loose," "wickerbill," "wedge," "tight/loose/trouble," "done blown a motor," to name a few. I think that this is basically America's best style of racing. So much so that it's how America thinks of racing, if not straight-line racing (which I have no problem with, remember).

I seen a French Stock Car race on Motorsport Mundial once. This was in a stadium with cars looking more like demolition derby cars. There were no traditional NASCAR terms or 30-something cars on a small track. The race, to me, was more of a more realistic stock car series even though the cars looked uglier than the V8 monsters in America. I'm sure the cars had a few light engine modifications, but no Freanch V8s in small economy cars. It's strange I say this about the French Stock cars, but it didn't look the same. I think one time the DTM series wanted to run an oval race at the Lausitzring. And I mean, let's not Americanize German Touring Cars. In my view, I hate calling DTM cars touring cars because their horsepower, looks, and performance are anything BUT touring cars.

Anyhow, I think it's being too outdated. And I mean, I know that I don't really look at NASCAR as a serious racing series, but it is too much out there that not exposing to it is impossible almost. I know I'm not the NASCAR fan, but it's tough to negate NASCAR's popularity and character when you just CANNOT get away from American oval racing. I mean, you cannot get away from stock cars or sprint cars or dirt trackers. When you like LMP sports racing cars and you see a lot of big and sometimes ugly V8-powered cars going in circles, you tend to dislike not seeing what you came for. You also tend to think that American racing is so one-sided with ovals and thirtysomethings from North Carolina or little-known cities with short tracks or dirt courses. I think road racing surely needs more marketing no matter who watches them. I've seen great road racing covered in magazines, beuatiful sportscars online, you play video games with these automotive marvels, but when it comes to American racing coverage, you tend to be left out. From a humanistic perspective, you can't expect everyone to like the same thing. Being uniform in a society gets to be boring and dull. Everyone has their favorite kind of racing even if everyone in America loves circles. Catering to the different worlds of racing is a daunting task, but when things are so one-sided, it gets to tick people off. I love road racing I'll get into it as much as I can. But as long as "circles" get the spotlight, it gets horribly boring. Maybe someone should tell NASCAR to downgrade its exposure in the media to allow for other types of racing to get their share of spotlight. It's not the end of the world if NASCAR isn't shown as often on TV. It just means easier breathing for people who appreciate finer racing series. Now go make it happen.
 
Not long ago I bought NASCAR Thunder 2002 (PSOne) and while it's outdated and its car physics can be deceiving sometimes, I've grown a confortable level of tolerance towards stock cars and their unbridled coverage, I can actually watch it and even get into it sometimes, which was my intended goal when I got the game. To tolerate stock car racing.

I still very much like my WRC, Speed World Challenge races and... yeah, why not? F1 (when it's not blacked out) but now I also don't mind watching NASCAR racing and can refrain from criticizing it because of some kind of revulsion towards it.
Let it be known I don't avidly follow the series or stay tuned when shows like "Men Behind the Wrenches" or "NASCAR Past Champions" come on, those are for the older fans, but if a rerun of last weekends race is on, I'm not one to complain anymore.


The only thing I still can't watch on Speed now is "2 Wheel Tuesday", and I'm not sure the videogame method I did with stock cars will work the same way with bikes. I've tried bike racing games and.. meh.
 
Now like I said, when an oval race is rained out, what do you do to make alternatives? I mean, when NASCAR is rained out, often times, there is alternative NASCAR coverage. But when Le Mans and Petit Le Mans were murdered by NASCAR coverage, they couldn't have shown "Legends of Motorsport," Le Mans from the year before, any other endurance races... since ass-kissing FOX wanted to make money prostituting NASCAR on TV over real racing. Now you real racing fans, you tell me. Is that fair? I don't care about NASCAR's popularity, but sometimes you have to break "tradition." It's how we learn more about racing. My ideas... you like NASCAR? Look into Trans-Am or Australian V8s. You like World of Outlaws or sprint cars or dirt modifieds?? Look at Andros Ice Racing or World Rally. You like long stock car races? Watch some ALMS or some of the world's finest amateur and professional endurances. I mean, there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for people to not find alternative racing series to broaden their perspective of racing. I mean, Jeff Hammond looked into World Rally. It boosted his knowledge and increased his exposure to racing.

To me, I would like to thank "Motorsport Mundial," because no matter how much I love racing, there is at least one form of racing I either haven't seen or don't know much about. MSM brought it all to you, one week at a time. And I am thankful to see the world, if not just the world of racing. I think any racing fan should check out other racing series before claiming it as their favorite. But my favorite motorsport? American Le Mans. I think it's the only series that the world at least cares about and likes. Sebring, Road Atlanta, and don't forget Le Mans (even though it isn't an ALMS event). So if you think I make long, boring posts making a mountain out of a molehill, at least learn one sentence from this post and apply it to racing.
 
I used to watch it when it was Motorsport Asia. I loved it when they covered the Trial bike riders. Now that's bike-related television I can watch. 👍
 

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