Islam - What's your view on it?
- Thread starter SalmanBH
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- Furinkazen_54
I believe this would be the most fitting thread for this. Just yesterday we had the tragic bombings in Boston, and I was having a discussion on facebook with a number of friends about this, and they (being muslims) where disgusted how #muslims was being used on twitter in relation to the bombings. Also I had discussed in the past with a few friends of mine at college (student and adult alike) how they believed there was no such thing as a terrorist... I have struggled for a while to think of how to put it but I think If found a way... this is (with a couple edits) something I wrote on my facebook yesterday after a somewhat heated debate.
"Terrorists" do exist. Sorry to anyone who takes offence but they do - the meaning of a terrorist as a word is to "cause terror" - NOTHING is mentioned in any dictionary or definition about a particular sect, cult, or religion. So when my muslim friends turn around and say "terrorists don't exist" I think that they really mean something else - because if you are a muslim following your religion, you won't do any of these terrible things and you won't be a terrorist - to a normal muslim, it seems that a terrorist is not representing their religion and faith, which is right.
If I went into a church and planted a bomb claiming to be Christian then all christian people afterwards would be saying "he's not a christian". I think sometimes there has to be a distinguishing barrier - we know there are terrorists, and THEY believe they are muslims, and they are following the religion which justifies there actions, when most muslims, the proper people who I have learnt a lot about from many people over the past few years, will actually stand up and say "no, this is not us, despite what they say, we do not believe these people - the are not us".
What i've said here isn't intended to cause any offence, apologies if it does, for me this is what I understand from talking to people. It's an ultimately difficult picture to put together, skewed even more by how the media portray groups of people at times... but surely I hope what I say makes some sense to you all...
As an additional expansion on that point - I read on some news afterwards that an airport alert happened soon after the Boston Bombs as passengers where alarmed that a couple passengers where speaking arabic (source here)... If someone speaking there own language causes a security alert, everyone must be in a jumpy mood. But such things and specific call-outs and mentions from people and the media are just going to make people's attitudes towards people worse.
Ultimately, I find it quite sad when something like this happens, everyone in a group (muslims in this case) end up getting tarred with the same brush. Though at same time in a modern climate like now, it's somewhat expected.
Furi.
"Terrorists" do exist. Sorry to anyone who takes offence but they do - the meaning of a terrorist as a word is to "cause terror" - NOTHING is mentioned in any dictionary or definition about a particular sect, cult, or religion. So when my muslim friends turn around and say "terrorists don't exist" I think that they really mean something else - because if you are a muslim following your religion, you won't do any of these terrible things and you won't be a terrorist - to a normal muslim, it seems that a terrorist is not representing their religion and faith, which is right.
If I went into a church and planted a bomb claiming to be Christian then all christian people afterwards would be saying "he's not a christian". I think sometimes there has to be a distinguishing barrier - we know there are terrorists, and THEY believe they are muslims, and they are following the religion which justifies there actions, when most muslims, the proper people who I have learnt a lot about from many people over the past few years, will actually stand up and say "no, this is not us, despite what they say, we do not believe these people - the are not us".
What i've said here isn't intended to cause any offence, apologies if it does, for me this is what I understand from talking to people. It's an ultimately difficult picture to put together, skewed even more by how the media portray groups of people at times... but surely I hope what I say makes some sense to you all...
As an additional expansion on that point - I read on some news afterwards that an airport alert happened soon after the Boston Bombs as passengers where alarmed that a couple passengers where speaking arabic (source here)... If someone speaking there own language causes a security alert, everyone must be in a jumpy mood. But such things and specific call-outs and mentions from people and the media are just going to make people's attitudes towards people worse.
Ultimately, I find it quite sad when something like this happens, everyone in a group (muslims in this case) end up getting tarred with the same brush. Though at same time in a modern climate like now, it's somewhat expected.
Furi.
- 9,058
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
You see those passengers? They failed in my eyes. Because as we proclaim that we are strong against terrorists, but yet here we are 12 years after 9/11 up to the same shaningans just because someone happens to be something, allowing our fear to force two men from the plane just because they were speaking arabic. If anything didn't the terrorist win then? By making you fearful?
Terrorism in itself knows no creed, ideology, politics, or religion. It just knows to destroy. Of course every Muslim claims he or she follows the religion but at least I admit I'm not well polished in the faith as others. The biggest worry about these terrorists is that how ignorant they are of the background history of the Quran they oh so love to quote before strapping a bomb to themselves.
With regards to Boston, we have no idea who it was. If it were Muslims I assure you that some group or somebody would take credit and boast about it by now. But of course social media is not exactly the best place for thinking. Especially when you have idiots saying YOLO.
Terrorism in itself knows no creed, ideology, politics, or religion. It just knows to destroy. Of course every Muslim claims he or she follows the religion but at least I admit I'm not well polished in the faith as others. The biggest worry about these terrorists is that how ignorant they are of the background history of the Quran they oh so love to quote before strapping a bomb to themselves.
With regards to Boston, we have no idea who it was. If it were Muslims I assure you that some group or somebody would take credit and boast about it by now. But of course social media is not exactly the best place for thinking. Especially when you have idiots saying YOLO.
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- Furinkazen_54
As much as it is wrong that a security alert is triggered by people speaking there own language, remember these where some marathon runners on the plane, who will have had there nerves shattered by the recent events.
Yes... and I as I said in my comment - If I went into a church and planted a bomb claiming to be Christian, then all christian people afterwards would be saying "he's not a christian". - anyone can use a faith and a name and believe they are justified in there actions. But the people who actually understand there religion know it is not really them - if you are a muslim, and your religion ends up getting slated in the press and referred to in a negative light, would you not feel hurt?
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- 9,058
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
Honestly I don't. I knew it's been slandered, but it's been slandered since it was founded in Arabia.
I don't really get offended by the ignorance of others.
As for those passengers, they still don't get the pass because for one we still don't know who did it, so to make them get off like that is just rude. I know they just went through an ordeal, but it's not an excuse to discriminate just like that.
I don't really get offended by the ignorance of others.
As for those passengers, they still don't get the pass because for one we still don't know who did it, so to make them get off like that is just rude. I know they just went through an ordeal, but it's not an excuse to discriminate just like that.
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- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
^exactly, a somewhat kneejerk reaction in all honesty. On a similar subject, I went Italy last month on a college trip and I noticed of all 8 of us from our college they gave the pakistani guy about double security checks... sounds awful but I bet it wasn't just random coincidence.
- 9,058
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- BasedAckbar
Yeah I never understood the whole random search thing. For instance, my mom who is a 53 year old gets randomly searched whereas I at 23 gets passed on through.
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The first time I went to the US, our Irish colleague was 'randomly selected' for enhanced security - he wasn't a happy camper. Similarly, I once went through a police checkpoint at Golders Green underground station in London, and I was praying (not literally) that I wouldn't get stopped, since my bag was full of dodgy-looking stuff for my work, including some very toxic cadmium powder (albeit securely stashed). Luckily for me, the guy in front of me was Pakistani or similar and was stopped immediately, and I walked through the checkpoint unmolested... I might have had a hard time explaining to some cops what the stuff in my bag was for, let alone why I was carrying it on the train
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As a Muslim myself, I have been called terrorist countless times by a certain race that does not include the country I live in. It was only because I defended my country and people from rapist genocidal murderers. These people still defend their country no matter what type of despicable act they know others have done. A certain group of people support a certain person for attacking about 8,000 innocent civilians, another group of people, and have started war with my group of people. Anyways, my people are called MUSLIM terrorist, yet there are Christian minorities in my country and my motherland is have Christian. We are very tolerant of theists, atheists, and agnostics.
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- 34,949
- Indian Falls, NY
- slashfan7964
Most of the whole "Muslim terrorist" thing comes from 9/11, at least that's when I started really noticing those terms put together.
I'll be quite honest, when I was ignorant and younger I'd would be afraid to see guys in white robes, beards, and turbans speaking a different language. They scared me. Now I realize they are just normal people going about their business. Most of which I was too young to fully understand.
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- Merphos
Islam, just like every other religion causes unnecessary conflict because people care too much about what other people think.
The only way to solve the conflict is if the Muslim community got together and actually tried to solve the extremist issue instead of proclaiming "it's nothing to do with us, they're not Muslim". It has everything to do with them...
The only way to solve the conflict is if the Muslim community got together and actually tried to solve the extremist issue instead of proclaiming "it's nothing to do with us, they're not Muslim". It has everything to do with them...
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That would be very difficult. It's like telling your new dog to roll over. Muslim countries such as Afghanistan feel as if their people are being harmed and another reason why terrorists terrorize is to spread Islam. I obviously disagree with this strategy because Islam is about PEACE, but some people call us Muslim pigs. Screw them! They are so ignorant...
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So then what are the extremists? Everyone labels them as Islamic terrorists but what should they be labeled as?
Rainbow Dash
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The problem is (or that I have with Islam) is when they attempt to force their values upon societies and countries and creating a mini-state within a state where they essentially create self-sufficient small community that serves as nothing more than a gated community with more strict rules.
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In the modern age alot of "Muslims" are muslims by name not by act,it's a shame really but alot don't even do the basic teachings of Islam.
There is a large number of extremists sadly in the world due to the sheer ignorance and with today's media ,it isn't hard to figure out why ironically the Religion that encourages peace has been branded with terror labels.
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I think that the media has a strong influence in creating this anti Muslim feeling.
I guess I am going to get the "all they do is report the news as it is" argument again so I am going to suggest people who think that read up on the studies of Stan Cohen and Stuart Hall. Although not a specific media study you could also look at Eileen Barker's study on the Moonies. Shows how different the truth is to what the news implies.
I know none of those are about Islamaphobia but they are studies done that show how the news isn't exactly an unbiased view.
My view is that it is a religion and it should be treated with respect whether you agree with it's views or not.
I guess I am going to get the "all they do is report the news as it is" argument again so I am going to suggest people who think that read up on the studies of Stan Cohen and Stuart Hall. Although not a specific media study you could also look at Eileen Barker's study on the Moonies. Shows how different the truth is to what the news implies.
I know none of those are about Islamaphobia but they are studies done that show how the news isn't exactly an unbiased view.
My view is that it is a religion and it should be treated with respect whether you agree with it's views or not.
Joel
Premium
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- Noob616
It's true that the majority of terror attacks are carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam, but there's definitely a bias involved that magnifies the "danger" of Islam. To this day, Anders Behring Breivik is usually referred to as a "mass killer", or a "mass murderer", but I rarely see him referred to as a terrorist despite the fact he was motivated by a hatred of Islam.
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I might consider myself PC, but there's a reason why it's called religious extremism: people have taken their faith to extremes. Sure, religious texts may have a couple of gems of wisdom here and there, but then you get the really nasty parts - God commanding slaughters and committing them himself from time to time (e.g. the flood from the Book of Genesis, plagues against the Egyptians in the Book of Exodus etc.) - and a religious extremist might think that their god(s) is/are on their side.
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- Rage_Racer_VOLK
- RageRacer48
Islam itself is not a problem. The problem is, Islam can be interpreted with different ways. What we call radical Islam is interpreted to people for setting them up for violence.
In my country, Christians and Muslims live together in peace for hundreds of years. There are churches and mosques standing nearby, and nobody is harmed by it. For example, Tatarstan, the republic being a part of Russia, is known to be inhabited by Tatars mostly, which are Muslims. But they don't wear white robes, beards, and turbans and stuff like that. You won't tell they're Muslims by simply looking at them, their girls don't wear hijabs. They do what the other Europeans do, but they just go to a mosque sometimes and speak their own Tatar language when in their homeland.
In countries like Afghanistan or Pakistan, most people are poor and uneducated, and they have nothing in their minds but Islam. Anyone can interpret Islam with the way like "kill Americans and you will go to heaven!", and these people will believe him, because they have a vacuum in their minds.
Speaking about poor Islamic republics of Russia, like Dagestan, Chechnya (but Chechnya is not so poor these days) and some other Caucasus republics, they have the same problem as well. Unemployment percentage is pretty high there, many people can't find job to live well, and Islam is the only food for their minds. So they are easily influenced by exstremist preachers and get recruited by terrorist bands sometimes. You all have heard of Tsarnayev brothers from Chechnya and what they did in Boston.
The leaders of these bands really have nothing to do with Islam, they're just goons. They trade blood for money. And radical Islam is just a tool for washing people's brains, making them do what the boss says.
In my country, Christians and Muslims live together in peace for hundreds of years. There are churches and mosques standing nearby, and nobody is harmed by it. For example, Tatarstan, the republic being a part of Russia, is known to be inhabited by Tatars mostly, which are Muslims. But they don't wear white robes, beards, and turbans and stuff like that. You won't tell they're Muslims by simply looking at them, their girls don't wear hijabs. They do what the other Europeans do, but they just go to a mosque sometimes and speak their own Tatar language when in their homeland.
In countries like Afghanistan or Pakistan, most people are poor and uneducated, and they have nothing in their minds but Islam. Anyone can interpret Islam with the way like "kill Americans and you will go to heaven!", and these people will believe him, because they have a vacuum in their minds.
Speaking about poor Islamic republics of Russia, like Dagestan, Chechnya (but Chechnya is not so poor these days) and some other Caucasus republics, they have the same problem as well. Unemployment percentage is pretty high there, many people can't find job to live well, and Islam is the only food for their minds. So they are easily influenced by exstremist preachers and get recruited by terrorist bands sometimes. You all have heard of Tsarnayev brothers from Chechnya and what they did in Boston.
The leaders of these bands really have nothing to do with Islam, they're just goons. They trade blood for money. And radical Islam is just a tool for washing people's brains, making them do what the boss says.
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I think I'll leave this here:
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As is the case with lots of things that 99% are absolutely fine and are of no problem or threat, however its a very small minority that inevitable show the others in a bad light.
99% of Muslims are very nice people and the fact they hold those religious beliefs isn't anything that causes any problems or tensions, however the very few extremists are shown by the media and thus show all Muslims in a bad light.
Its the same in other cases, Christianity for example there are some "extremists" (Westboro baptist church for example.) however as in the west we are a mainly christian or ex-christian culture we not tend to show these as much in the media.
Its also similar in non religious issues, 99% of young people are well behaved and contribute well to society , however its the minority that cause problems that therefore set the stereotype for the majority.
99% of Muslims are very nice people and the fact they hold those religious beliefs isn't anything that causes any problems or tensions, however the very few extremists are shown by the media and thus show all Muslims in a bad light.
Its the same in other cases, Christianity for example there are some "extremists" (Westboro baptist church for example.) however as in the west we are a mainly christian or ex-christian culture we not tend to show these as much in the media.
Its also similar in non religious issues, 99% of young people are well behaved and contribute well to society , however its the minority that cause problems that therefore set the stereotype for the majority.
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- Johnnypenso
Adam Lanza was likely mentally ill and did not commit his crimes "on behalf" of a particular political, religious or other cause, which is generally what terrorists do. When a Muslim extremist commits an act of violence he's doing it "on behalf" of Islam, or at least in his head he believes he is. Don't be afraid to call something what it is, it helps to find solutions to these problems if we can identify the underlying motivations for the perpetrators.
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I tend to agree with this recent analysis by Tony Blair - that while there may not be a problem with Islam itself, there are significant problems in predominantly Islamic nations because of the way politics and religion are melded together, which foments the kind of bitter and seemingly intractable rivalries that are currently tearing Syria and other parts of the Middle East apart...
http://www.project-syndicate.org/co...le-to-contain-violent-islamists-by-tony-blair
http://www.project-syndicate.org/co...le-to-contain-violent-islamists-by-tony-blair
- 9,058
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- BasedAckbar
The problem with Islamic countries is that for one most of them are mired in poverty, corruption, and dictators and royal family members getting more and more disconnected with what's going on with their people. Or they could be just douche bags. Its probably both.
But I digress, the prophet himself was a more democratic man than his compatriots at the time, but ironically the very kingdom of Saud he was born in turned into a state for which the royal family plays with. He allowed Jews and Christians to reside in Arabia, but yet non-Muslims can't enter Makkah whilst I can go to the Vatican by the end of the week? Alot of these issues with Muslims to others does not really stem from religion as I feel it's more personal xenophobia.
Islam right now is in its dark ages of sorts. People are fed up with food being expensive (Egypt), their governments bringing war onto them (Syria) or their women folk can't get opportunities like the men could (Saudi). Terrorism is just the combination of many things directed at the most convenient target, Good Ol Uncle Sam. Yes, we have screwed the middle east by supporting Israel blindly, supporting folk like The Shah of Iran and Saddam when it suited us, and only giving lip service to people like the Saudis when it comes to human rights abuse (but it's not like America has any right to talk on that front anyway.) But I don't remember American soldiers blindly saying praise jesus and then blow up a commuter bus.
Muslim youth today are being misguided by both parties, both Muslims and the rest of the world. First and foremost these idiots who put bombs to their chests and blow up a market should learn that Allah does not take too kindly to suicide and innocent lives being slaughtered. Second, they have to understand that the situations that they are in can be resolved through education and reason. God did not develop the brain just so you'd be brainwashed with it from some crackpot Imam. Use it like the Muslims of the golden age of Islam.
These frustrated kids are becoming the next generation Boy Scouts of Al Qaeda and it has to be stopped. What Obama is doing with the drones is only giving them more incentive. These people are not afraid of death, instead teach them why it's worth to live life.
Unfortunately, middle eastern politics to the West presents itself as Islam or deal with it, at least to the media. That's not right at all, it completely destroys the diplomacy the prophet practiced so others can learn from.
But I digress, the prophet himself was a more democratic man than his compatriots at the time, but ironically the very kingdom of Saud he was born in turned into a state for which the royal family plays with. He allowed Jews and Christians to reside in Arabia, but yet non-Muslims can't enter Makkah whilst I can go to the Vatican by the end of the week? Alot of these issues with Muslims to others does not really stem from religion as I feel it's more personal xenophobia.
Islam right now is in its dark ages of sorts. People are fed up with food being expensive (Egypt), their governments bringing war onto them (Syria) or their women folk can't get opportunities like the men could (Saudi). Terrorism is just the combination of many things directed at the most convenient target, Good Ol Uncle Sam. Yes, we have screwed the middle east by supporting Israel blindly, supporting folk like The Shah of Iran and Saddam when it suited us, and only giving lip service to people like the Saudis when it comes to human rights abuse (but it's not like America has any right to talk on that front anyway.) But I don't remember American soldiers blindly saying praise jesus and then blow up a commuter bus.
Muslim youth today are being misguided by both parties, both Muslims and the rest of the world. First and foremost these idiots who put bombs to their chests and blow up a market should learn that Allah does not take too kindly to suicide and innocent lives being slaughtered. Second, they have to understand that the situations that they are in can be resolved through education and reason. God did not develop the brain just so you'd be brainwashed with it from some crackpot Imam. Use it like the Muslims of the golden age of Islam.
These frustrated kids are becoming the next generation Boy Scouts of Al Qaeda and it has to be stopped. What Obama is doing with the drones is only giving them more incentive. These people are not afraid of death, instead teach them why it's worth to live life.
Unfortunately, middle eastern politics to the West presents itself as Islam or deal with it, at least to the media. That's not right at all, it completely destroys the diplomacy the prophet practiced so others can learn from.
- 4,573
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- Rage_Racer_VOLK
- RageRacer48
I've heard that some people in the West think that Muslims are discriminated and oppressed in Russia. 
Anyone here thinks so?
Anyone here thinks so?
