Isle of Man circuit

[Mr Fox]

I have allways liked long distance races, weather point to point or on a circuit like the nordschleife track in Germany, but there is another circuit race i would love to see in a Gran Turismo game and that is the Isle of Man circuit.

I know the circuit is used for Motorcycle racing, but i see no reason why it would'nt make a awesome circuit for car racing as well.

Personally i get kinda bored racing on smaller tracks, taking the same corners 10+ times over and over again, it gets really repetative after a while, which is why i love the nordschleife track, it takes ages to get around so it doesnt get as repetative as the smaller circuits.

Here is a 3D image of the Isle of man circuit>>>

Imagine how cool it would be to have a huge track like this in GT5 ot GT:HD, with all the mountains and forests and bridges and stuff, it would be well cool, and imo it would be better than the Nordschliefe track.

If the whole circuit is to large for the PS3 to handle, as PD are pretty strict when it comes to high quality back grounds and trying to make things look like the real thing they could divide the circuit up into say 2 stages ??

I would love to see the Isle of man circuit in GT5 or GT:HD premium.

 

[Dave A]

I'd love to be able to race that track, it wouldn't be practical for large grids though it get's very narrow in places but to have a chance to scream around the Isle of man TT circuit in GT:HD or GT5 would be awsome. It would certainly be a more scenic track than the Nordschleife, it's a longer track too but I don't see why the PS3 couldn't cope with it when we got the full Nordschleife in GT4 on the PS2.

 

[Wolfe]

The entire track was featured (in above-average detail) in Suzuki TT Superbikes, which was a PS2 game. Trust me, the PS3 can handle it, and I'd love to see it make it into the game.

 

[The359]

I think it's pretty clear why it'd be a bad idea for GT: Too narrow.

It'd be like trying to race on Citta di Aria for how many straight miles...

 

[SagarisGTB]

As you said, its a Motor circuit. Something for TT2. Though, if it would get picked up for TT2, it wouldnt be a problem to transfer it to GT5 for driving on with S500s or whatnot. Its not a circuit to race with Group Cs or Formula GT for sure, so it would have limited use.

If you want a good long racing circuit, the best that comes to mind is always Piccolo Madonie. Now wouldnt that be a ride.

 

[Mr Fox]

Yes it is narrow (in places), but really i dont think that would be much of an issue !!!

The same argument could be made for the Monaco circuit, PD had no problem putting that coarse into there games, why should the Isle of man circuit be any differant.

Thing is the Isle of man track varies in width, there are pleanty of areas where one could over take, and the tight narrow parts would prove to be technically challanging, just like the monaco circuit there are parts that are open for passing and there are parts where one cannot.

There loads of streches on the Isle of man circuit that one can pass/overtake easily, far more than the likes of the monaco circuit, heck the majority of the roads featured on the circuit are the same width as the country roads where i live, and i have zero problem overtaking on those roads.


Anyways PD has already included tight tracks in previous Gt games, why should this track be any differant ?

 

[JohnBM01]

Aw... here we go with the "f:censored: small tracks! I want stupidly long race courses!" Nürburgring Nordschliefe is Hell enough. Why bring in the Isle of Man TT? If you want races where cars can actually stand a chance, why not the Mille Miglia(?) or Targa Florio? I like the Isle of Man motorcycle events. But to me, too narrow and frustrating... for cars, at least. The Isle of Man for Tourist Trophy is like Le Mans and its LM Race cars. Some people probably wished Tourist Trophy had the Isle of Man TT since that's what Tourist Trophy is named after. I'm not Mr. Long Tracks. I'm more of Grand Prix-type tracks. And I'd do only one long course- Le Mans. Then maybe use Nürburgring Nordschleife for testing. At best, an Isle of Man inclusion would best suit rally cars. And if it is for some rally use, maybe imagine the first-ever rally racing endurance. See, this would be the kind of course to have six or so rally cars on in competition.

But the course is made for motorcycles. F1 cars and LMPs are only issuing their own death sentences racing this track on the limit. Sorry if I'm spoling the party here.

 

[Mr Fox]

But the course is made for motorcycles. F1 cars and LMPs are only issuing their own death sentences racing this track on the limit. Sorry if I'm spoling the party here.

Well it a good thing that theres far more to GT than LMP's and F1 cars, a fully tuned Skyline GT-R with the suspension set up correctly would be awesome on that track, as well as loads of other cars that would get blown away by the LMP's on a F1 type circuit, in fact this makes me want this track even more, as it gives people a reason to give the other cars a look in, instead of just sticking with the uber track racing cars like the Audi R8 or the 787b.

And your quite right the rally cars would do very well on this circuit, but theres loads of other cars that could rack up some wicked lap times if set up right as well.

A track like this would give people more incentive to use other cars, not just for the sake of useing them, but because theres a competative edge to selecting other cars instead of going straight for the LMP's F1 ect ect.

 

[Tenacious D]

I think I brought up the Isle of Man course last year myself in a wishlist thread. I'm still all for it. Of course that doesn't mean Kaz and the lads are all for it, but we can always hope. Although I must admit that I'm more for the redoing of all the tracks and cars from previous Gran Turismos before we get another epic lengthed track like IoM.

 

[amar212]

Isle of Man - sold. I even wouldn't be surprised if we finished up with actually having it as download in later stages of GT Network. Would pay 3 euros for it solely .

I also like the idea of Mille Miglia and Targo Floria. After all - there was a Mille Miglia game on PSone and it was fine example of what Mille Miglia was - it was a bad arcade experience, it had awful loading times, track itself was inaccurate but it was Mille Miglia in-game track in 1999. And graphics were pretty good for PSone game.

 

[johanlofgren]

Guys The Isle of man has allways had cars racing during the TT weeks. I've got several DVD's with footage of car races in various classes at home.. Yes it's narrow at some places, but most of the track isn't that bad. And even with tons of opponent cars you'd learn to avoid these few dangerous places after a while.. I've got the Manx TT circuit in my top 10 wishlist for the GT future

 

[Hun200kmh]

Isle of Man and Targa Florio would be awesome, and they're not "out of reach", considering the power of the PS3!

The Mille Miglia race, however, deserves a game on its own (maybe together with the "Carrera Panamericana" and other historic looooong road races)

 

[Scaff]

I think it's pretty clear why it'd be a bad idea for GT: Too narrow.

It'd be like trying to race on Citta di Aria for how many straight miles...

And that would be a bad thing for what reason???? LOL

Its not that narrow at all, the vast majority of the circuit is typical of a lot of single carridgeway British B-roads, plenty wide enough for fun.

Guys The Isle of man has allways had cars racing during the TT weeks. I've got several DVD's with footage of car races in various classes at home.. Yes it's narrow at some places, but most of the track isn't that bad. And even with tons of opponent cars you'd learn to avoid these few dangerous places after a while.. I've got the Manx TT circuit in my top 10 wishlist for the GT future

Quite right, while a number of people have stated that the TT circuit is only used for bikes that does firstly ignore one major point, its a public road. Cars use it everyday, and the Isle of Man has no speed limits outside the town and villages.

The second point, as made by johanlofgren, is that its been used for high speed tests a number of times, Top Gear have used parts of it and lastly the Manx rally is a tarmac rally using, you guessed, most of the TT circuit.

Personally I would love to see it in GT5, it would be an amazing challenge, and anyone wanting to get a taste should (as Wolfe mentioned) pick up TT Superbikes and give it a go.

Regards

Scaff

 

[TheCracker]

Guys The Isle of man has allways had cars racing during the TT weeks. I've got several DVD's with footage of car races in various classes at home.. Yes it's narrow at some places, but most of the track isn't that bad. And even with tons of opponent cars you'd learn to avoid these few dangerous places after a while.. I've got the Manx TT circuit in my top 10 wishlist for the GT future

Cars never race on the full circuit. They do use sections of it for hillclimb and sprint events though. It's not too narrow for racing - no more so than the Ring - which if you remember has been deemed unsuitable for F1 and sports prototypes since the 80's. The TT course is normal UK/european style country B-road for the most. It does have a very smooth surface - for a road race course. It's only the road furniture and proper road curbing that would distract it from being a decent car circuit.

 

[Famine]

Cars never race on the full circuit. They do use sections of it for hillclimb and sprint events though. It's not too narrow for racing - no more so than the Ring - which if you remember has been deemed unsuitable for F1 and sports prototypes since the 80's. The TT course is normal UK/european style country B-road for the most. It does have a very smooth surface - for a road race course. It's only the road furniture and proper road curbing that would distract it from being a decent car circuit.

I'll wait for daan to post the video of the 100mph average lap in a Rover Vitesse.

*dreams of Ariel Atom and IoMTT*

*fetches cloth*

 

[Earth]

I've raced this before on NASCAR 2003. It's not a very fun track to drive. Really narrow with alot of mediocre corners. Nothing really stands out.

I'm not against Isle of Man being in GT5, but I certainly won't blink if it doesnt surface for GT5

 

[TheCracker]

I'll wait for daan to post the video of the 100mph average lap in a Rover Vitesse.

I was going to add to my post about Tony Pond's 100mph TT lap - but that's the only time that i could remember a car 'officially' doing a quick lap on the closed circuit.

I've done a 2.5hour lap of the TT circuit in my Grandad's Diesel (non-turbo!) Ford Orion - but i don't think Tony Pond lost much sleep over it

 

[Jim Prower]

Ahem.

Are people forgetting about this!?!?

The Isle of Man TT is on there already, anyway, I think.

 

[civicgsir]

From what i understand, the current Eiger Nordwand is a real life hiking trail widened to accommodate cars, so i don't see why they couldn't widen this track a couple feet here and there.

besides, it would be a natural inclusion to future TT games.

 

[JohnBM01]

I've called Nürburgring Nordschleife as the "Nürburgring Nightmare." I'm obviously not hooked to extremely long courses where it's too easy to screw up and ruin everything. Here is a motorcycle comparison of lap records at the Isle of Man:

http://www.iomtt.com/blogs/features/archive/2006/02/22/Race_and_Lap_Records_After_2005_TT.aspx

Lap times for motorcycles range between 17:30 to just below 20:00. Are you SURE you want to race laps this long in your automobile of choice?

For the uninitiated, I will tell you why I'm not a big fan of extremely long courses. (1) The crew behind Ridge Racer 7 talked about how if they made much longer race tracks, the gamer in question wouldn't really have the endurance to do lap after lap on an extremely long course. I tend to agree with that at times. Of course, I'm a veteran of the Gran Turismo series. I've done races that lasted between an hour to 24 hours. I'm just not religiously commited to extremely long races. I usually feel that Le Mans would be the only long course I want to do. This is simply because it's the longest course that I can master. I know Tetre Rouge from Arnage to the Porsche Curves. I'm more desperate to get laps complete if this was about a track like the Nürburgring Nordschleife. This track is dreadfully long and too easy to screw up. How anyone can fund enjoyment from a course like this as opposed to a Grand Prix course like Spa-Francorchamps or Suzuka is beyond me. I even struggled in Enthusia having to do this race. Three laps around here is about 21-24 minutes. And if you're trying to unlock it in Free Run, you have to be COMPLETELY perfect around that track. Which brings me to my second gripe... (2) Longer tracks are tougher to master. Unless... you love crashing your car around the track while missing every apex and braking point. These are extreme challenges. Only ones I'd likely do if I were a real racer is perhaps rally events. At least you get breaks to work on the car or relax. I dread having to race Nürburgring Nordschleife, especially with much faster cars (like Gran Turismo All-Stars and the GT World Championship in GT4 with prototypes). People cringed when you couldn't race more than one bike around that course in Tourist Trophy. I didn't. I used that track for testing. Most of my testing was for high speed. It's where I realized the Suzuki GSX-R 1300 has a top speed of about 220 mph. (3) Longer courses really test your patience. So if you don't have patience, you're not going to enjoy the ride around the course. Some people don't have the patience for a long race, much less a long course. I mostly do my long course racing at a minimum since I just want some quick action at times.

So that's why I've been so opposed to more longer courses and fewer Grand Prix-type courses. And this is a fact: Formula One once raced the full Nürburgring Nordschleife before the current F1 track was formed. The current GP-spec Nürburgring was made in 1984 and recently modified by the love-him-or-hate-him Herman Tilke. Most extremely long courses are nightmares. I'd rather see Spa-Francorchamps in GTHD and GT5 than the Isle of Man TT. Save that for Tourist Trophy 2.

 

[Famine]

Why is either/or an issue? Why not both Spa and IoMTT?

I'm no fan of the 'Ring, but it has grown on me, and it's an interesting feeling to know that you know the 'Ring and could happily visit it in real life and know where you were (in fact my brother has just bought GT4 in order to learn the 'Ring before he takes his Atom there next summer).

IoMTT is a similar prospect.

 

[Hun200kmh]

John, why do you have any problem with long courses being included in the game? You'll allways have lots of short circuits. But for guys that really like (I do) to take more than 5 minutes to complete a lap, there's a shortage in the game industry. So, noone wants short circuits out of any game. But some want long circuits to be there also.

 

[Dave A]

I've called Nürburgring Nordschleife as the "Nürburgring Nightmare." I'm obviously not hooked to extremely long courses where it's too easy to screw up and ruin everything. Here is a motorcycle comparison of lap records at the Isle of Man:

http://www.iomtt.com/blogs/features/archive/2006/02/22/Race_and_Lap_Records_After_2005_TT.aspx

Lap times for motorcycles range between 17:30 to just below 20:00. Are you SURE you want to race laps this long in your automobile of choice?

Yep, I'm very, very sure. I'd love to race, well not even race but just be given the chance to hot lap that track in a car of my choice in GT5.

For the uninitiated, I will tell you why I'm not a big fan of extremely long courses. (1) The crew behind Ridge Racer 7 talked about how if they made much longer race tracks, the gamer in question wouldn't really have the endurance to do lap after lap on an extremely long course. I tend to agree with that at times. Of course, I'm a veteran of the Gran Turismo series. I've done races that lasted between an hour to 24 hours. I'm just not religiously commited to extremely long races. I usually feel that Le Mans would be the only long course I want to do. This is simply because it's the longest course that I can master. I know Tetre Rouge from Arnage to the Porsche Curves. I'm more desperate to get laps complete if this was about a track like the Nürburgring Nordschleife.

A fair point but doesn't the challenge of it all not mean anything? I much prefer technical tracks to ovals for eaxmple, why? Because they are more challenging. I don't know every corner of the ring like the back of my hand but I love to race on it.

This track is dreadfully long and too easy to screw up. How anyone can fund enjoyment from a course like this as opposed to a Grand Prix course like Spa-Francorchamps or Suzuka is beyond me.

Because of the challenge.

I even struggled in Enthusia having to do this race. Three laps around here is about 21-24 minutes. And if you're trying to unlock it in Free Run, you have to be COMPLETELY perfect around that track. Which brings me to my second gripe... (2) Longer tracks are tougher to master. Unless... you love crashing your car around the track while missing every apex and braking point. These are extreme challenges.

just because you haven't mastered a track doesn't mean your going to screw up several times a lap, for example, in RFactor when I'm racing at the full 24hr Nurburgring Nordschleife circuit I generally do longer races that start i n the day and finish at night. I'm no where near good enough to blast round there in the darkness with just the headlights lighting the way, but I rarely crash.

If I had the choice to do 10 2 min laps around a F1 track or 1 lap around the IoMTT i would choose the IoMTT every time, longer tracks have a massive appeal to me, sure they are no replacment for shorter regular sized tracks but they offer a longer challenge, they tend to be more technical, better scenically and less repetetive since on a time to laps basis you do less laps.

 

[Scaff]

Lap times for motorcycles range between 17:30 to just below 20:00. Are you SURE you want to race laps this long in your automobile of choice?

I already race it on a bike in TT Superbikes, so the chance to drive it in a car in GT5. Oh yes I want that, I'm very, very sure.

For the uninitiated, I will tell you why I'm not a big fan of extremely long courses. (1) The crew behind Ridge Racer 7 talked about how if they made much longer race tracks, the gamer in question wouldn't really have the endurance to do lap after lap on an extremely long course. I tend to agree with that at times. Of course, I'm a veteran of the Gran Turismo series. I've done races that lasted between an hour to 24 hours. I'm just not religiously commited to extremely long races. I usually feel that Le Mans would be the only long course I want to do. This is simply because it's the longest course that I can master. I know Tetre Rouge from Arnage to the Porsche Curves. I'm more desperate to get laps complete if this was about a track like the Nürburgring Nordschleife. This track is dreadfully long and too easy to screw up. How anyone can fund enjoyment from a course like this as opposed to a Grand Prix course like Spa-Francorchamps or Suzuka is beyond me. I even struggled in Enthusia having to do this race. Three laps around here is about 21-24 minutes. And if you're trying to unlock it in Free Run, you have to be COMPLETELY perfect around that track. Which brings me to my second gripe... (2) Longer tracks are tougher to master. Unless... you love crashing your car around the track while missing every apex and braking point. These are extreme challenges. Only ones I'd likely do if I were a real racer is perhaps rally events. At least you get breaks to work on the car or relax. I dread having to race Nürburgring Nordschleife, especially with much faster cars (like Gran Turismo All-Stars and the GT World Championship in GT4 with prototypes). People cringed when you couldn't race more than one bike around that course in Tourist Trophy. I didn't. I used that track for testing. Most of my testing was for high speed. It's where I realized the Suzuki GSX-R 1300 has a top speed of about 220 mph. (3) Longer courses really test your patience. So if you don't have patience, you're not going to enjoy the ride around the course. Some people don't have the patience for a long race, much less a long course. I mostly do my long course racing at a minimum since I just want some quick action at times.

I will reply to each of your points.

1) - Totally personal, so of use don't have an issue or actually enjoy the challenge of enduring longer races on longer tracks.

2) - I have to disagree with this (again on a personal level), I love getting to know the longer circuits and the very challenge that gives. Rather than crashing out on every corner I take slower cars and a slower pace around the 'ring (as an example) to get used to the line and the course. Its something I find rather enjoyable.

3) - I can't argue with that, if you don't enjoy the longer tracks, then you just don't like them. That's not however a reason to not have them, as quite a few of us do enjoy them.

So that's why I've been so opposed to more longer courses and fewer Grand Prix-type courses. And this is a fact: Formula One once raced the full Nürburgring Nordschleife before the current F1 track was formed. The current GP-spec Nürburgring was made in 1984 and recently modified by the love-him-or-hate-him Herman Tilke. Most extremely long courses are nightmares. I'd rather see Spa-Francorchamps in GTHD and GT5 than the Isle of Man TT. Save that for Tourist Trophy 2.

I'm not quite sure wy you make the point about the new and old Nurburgring GP circuits. The old one was removed from the F1 calender after Lauda's accident in '76, the new circuit having to be built afterwards. The old circuit is still however used for racing, most notably the 24hrs (which fingers crossed I will be off to watch next year).

As far as Spa goes, give me that and the IoMTT.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Tenacious D]

I'm with the yay crowd, obviously. The reason being that it takes a while to get used to a longer track, and thus you spend more time with it and all its challenges. To me this is a good thing, like a woman, it takes a while to get to know her mysteries, like a lifetime. With a track, it's not quite as long a learning curve, but each lap around the track is different enough that I at least never get tired of it like I do the smaller tracks. Each lap has a mountain of hurdles to overcome, and to me, that's much more satisfying than an endurance race where you have to do each lap the same 100 or more times, which to me becomes a repetitive chore. However, others prefer that kind of challenge, so there's some of both in Gran Turismo to keep both camps happy.

I'm hopeful that with Kaz and the lads willing to devote as much as six months to an individual vehicle in GT HD/GT5 that they have the same ambition to chasing down and modelling as many new and old (GT1-3) tracks as possible. And in the mix, add long runs like the Isle of Man.

 

[Car-less]

Given the choice, which 250 mile race would you rather do?
20 Laps at the Nurburgring, or 300 laps at Motorland?
Without a doubt, I'd choose the long track every time.

That said, sometimes I also like a quick blast so the shorter tracks definately have their place - If all the tracks in the game were on the scale of IoMTT, Nurburgring, Le-Mans and Grand Canyon then I too would find it tedious at times.

 

[SimRaceDriver]

The longer the track, the more exciting it is (For me at least) and the harder it becomes to 'learn' the track! So, if PD gets around to getting to this track and doing what they do, I would definitely welcome such an addition to the GT family!

 

[j8mie]

I think it's crazy when someone dismisses a track just because it's longer than the average F1 circuit. I love the 'ring, and I'd love the chance to race around the World famous IoMTT route as well.

I would also love to see the Targe Floria included, and that was 250miles long. Just think about that for a minute It won't happen, but my lord I'd love to drive virtually around the Sicilian mount roads, as I'm never likely to do it for real.

Some of us want a bigger/harder challenge with our tracks, and I get fed up of the idea of doing 100laps around suzuki. But 25 round the 'ring would be a lot more fun/challenging.

At present there are far too many shorter tracks, to bore me to death with. And PD need to address this balance with a few more choice tracks.

GT5 needs to be about more, not less. More cars, more features, more tracks. So there's no reason why the IoMTT can't be included as well as all the tracks we currently enjoy/dislike in GT4.

 

[Milliethemutt]

Bring it on. The longer the better. I would love to see the IoMTT course in GT5 and agree about the Targa too. I know the Targa would never happen but you can dream as J8mie said about driving it.

Pikes Peak is 12ish miles long and I'd love to see that too. It supposedly going to be in the next Mcrae game.

 

[Jim Prower]

So that's why I've been so opposed to more longer courses and fewer Grand Prix-type courses. And this is a fact: Formula One once raced the full Nürburgring Nordschleife before the current F1 track was formed. The current GP-spec Nürburgring was made in 1984 and recently modified by the love-him-or-hate-him Herman Tilke. Most extremely long courses are nightmares. I'd rather see Spa-Francorchamps in GTHD and GT5 than the Isle of Man TT. Save that for Tourist Trophy 2.

Now, Now! why can we not have BOTH courses? I like both sorts of racetracks. The Isle of Man also, from what you're describing, has that Tarmac Rally feel to it. Perfect for you Tarmac WRC fans.

Personally, I dont' care WHAT sort of track P.D. puts in there. give me all of 'em. Hell, even the Peoria Motorcycle Club Race Park

You think a narrow course is tough? Try one that's all dirt.