israel moves into Gaza

[ledhed]

Israel moved into south Gaza and took out the power plant and bridges surrounding Gaza city. The militant wing of Hamas say they know where the kidnapped soldier is...but the hamas Government say they have no idea ..indicating a split between the party .
For the first time in eight years Gaza is again occupied .

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13504830/
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107AP_Israel_Gaza.html?source=mypi
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/27/AR2006062700129.html


in a further turn of events

Al-Aqsa Brigades: Chemical warfare if Israel invades Gaza



Fatah’s armed wing says it has developed biological, chemical weapons. ‘We say to Olmert, Peretz: Your threats of invasion do not frighten us. We will surprise you with new weapons you have not faced until now,’ Al-Aqsa Brigades says
Roee Nahmias
The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Fatah’s armed wing, announced that it has developed biological and chemical weapons, Palestinian news agency Ramattan reported.
“With the help of Allah, we are pleased to say that we succeeded in developing over 20 different types of biological and chemical weapons,

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3267293,00.html

 

[Solid Lifters]

Been watching it for a while. When will those damn Arabs learn...

 

[87chevy]

Been watching it for a while. When will those damn Arabs learn...

When we take of the reins and let the Jews loose.

 

[ledhed]

Its crazy because as long as the US is involved in the " peace " process the US will be at war with Islamic militants that want Israel wiped out .


Israel will NOT be wiped out...so ......where does that leave us ?

And the rest of the world ?

 

[87chevy]

Its crazy because as long as the US is involved in the " peace " process the US will be at war with Islamic militants that want Israel wiped out .


Israel will NOT be wiped out...so ......where does that leave us ?

And the rest of the world ?

In a bad spot. Seriously, as much as I'd like there to be a peaceful bloodless resolution to the Arab v. Jew conflict... I just dont see it happening. Arab children are raised to hate Jews. They have been raised that way for countless generations. How does one change that? Not anytime soon. There's only one permanent solution. Let them fight it out to the death.

 

[ledhed]

The Aksa Martyrs' Brigades group announced on Sunday that it its members have succeeded in manufacturing chemical and biological weapons to be used against Israel.
In a leaflet distributed in the Gaza Strip, the group, which belongs to Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah party, said the weapons were the result of an effort that has lasted for three years.

The statment was a response to an Israeli Security Cabinet decision to give the IDF the green light to prepare all the forces necessary for a military operation against Gaza terror cells.

[...]

According to the statement, the first of its kind, the group managed to manufacture and develop at least 20 different types of biological and chemical weapons.

The group said its members would not hesitate to add the new weapons to long-range rockets that are being fired at Israeli communities almost every day. It also threatened to use the weapons against IDF soldiers if Israel carried out its threats to invade the Gaza Strip.

"We want to tell [Prime Minister Ehud] Olmert and [Defense Minister Amir] Peretz that your threats don't frighten us," the leaflet said. "We will surprise you with our new weapons the moment the first soldier sets his foot in the Gaza Strip."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885848200&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

The corrosive battle for power among Palestinian armed factions has generated new terrorist groups and radicalized existing ones. This week, the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades affiliated with Fatah even threatened to meet any Israeli assault on Gaza with 20 varieties of chemical weapons they supposedly have developed over the last three years. It's a claim some weapons experts view skeptically but that Israeli officials are unwilling to dismiss, given the way homemade missiles and rocket-propelled grenades have proliferated in Gaza since the Israeli withdrawal

http://www.cleveland.com/politics/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1151483743148220.xml&coll=2

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archive\200606\INT20060626e.html

Earlier, witnesses reported heavy shelling around Gaza's long-closed airport, and Israeli missiles hit two empty Hamas training camps, a rocket-building factory and several roads.

The militant Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades said it fired a rocket with a chemical warhead at the Israeli town of Sderot at 10 p.m. Wednesday, the first such claim. The Israeli military said it did not detect a rocket fired then.

Palestinians filled up on basic supplies after warplanes knocked out electricity, raising the specter of a humanitarian crisis. The Hamas-led government's information ministry warned of "epidemics and health disasters" because of damaged water pipes to central Gaza and the lack of power to pump water.

http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/06/28/ap2847989.html

What does it take bodies with chemical burns on TV ?

 

[magburner]

The thing I can't understand is why there has been no international condemnation of what Israel is doing. I haven't heard a single decenting voice anywhere, and where the hell is the UN in all of this? If the West is even bothered about proving we have no issue with Arabs or Muslims then we seriously need to be saying something to Israel.

So far they have all but destroyed the only working power station in Gaza, bombed numerous roads, and bridges, and now I've read that they have detained dozens of MPs, and government ministers. When will it end?

One kidnapped soldier is no excuse to bomb and terrorize a nation of people.

 

[87chevy]

The thing I can't understand is why there has been no international condemnation of what Israel is doing. I haven't heard a single decenting voice anywhere, and where the hell is the UN in all of this? If the West is even bothered about proving we have no issue with Arabs or Muslims then we seriously need to be saying something to Israel.

So far they have all but destroyed the only working power station in Gaza, bombed numerous roads, and bridges, and now I've read that they have detained dozens of MPs, and government ministers. When will it end?

One kidnapped soldier is no excuse to bomb and terrorize a nation of people.

Um, have you just now started following this? It's not just one kidnapped soldier, it's years and years of Palestinian suicide bombers blowing up buses full of Jews. And not to mention the fact that every Arab nation in the world wants to blow Israel off the map. Keep picking on a cornered animal and see what happens.

I'm sure Israel overreacts sometimes but they have been more patient and accomadating than the Palestinians.

 

[magburner]

Um, have you just now started following this?

Uhh... No. I know there is history between the Arabs and Israeli's, I was just commenting on the current events.

 

[ledhed]

Uhh... No. I know there is history between the Arabs and Israeli's, I was just commenting on the current events.

Part of the deal that had Israel move out of Gaza and the west bank was that they WOULD NOT BE USED BY TERRORIST TO ATTACK ISRAEL.
The Palestinians were to police themselves and keep nitwits from lobbing rockets into Israel never mind staging raids kidnapping and killing settlers and soldiers.
Palestine responded by electing terrorist as their government and attacks from the former " occupied " territorys increased dramaticly.

They now reap the whirlwind...they asked for it ..and Israel has shown AMAZING restraint .But do not expect them to leave unless they have a guarantee of security.

Why should they be treated any differently than any other nation being attacked from over its borders ? So why do you expect any country that values its own security and borders to condemn Israel ? They would be open to the same . What do you think Egypt would do if Jordan started firing rockets into their country ?

 

[magburner]

I agree that every nation has the right to protect it's own borders, but I fail to see how bombing a power station has anything to do with it. Unless Hamas had some secret bunker/training camp/weapons cache there.

 

[s0nny80y]

no remorse for those palestinians...they voted for their gov't

 

[FastEddie12]

Well, if you got kicked out of your country and then ruled by a vicious dictatorship you'd fight them forever. In recent years 3 Palestinians have died for every Israeli. If they were called the French Resistance we'd be on their side.

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

'

the israeli army have to be commended though, before this they had'nt invaded palestine (it's shreds - ghettoes) for a whole year

its heart-warming to see prudence & constraint from a vastly superior nuclear military against a legally elected democracy. - if the arabs are'nt happy w/ rubbled houses for their ghetto then i suppose the knesset must donate some huts or barbed wire at least & then the heligunships & tanks would be more polite when searching this neighbouring countries five or six approved toilets. *two taps for patrol passed*

no wait. . .

 

[Famine]

Well, if you got kicked out of your country and then ruled by a vicious dictatorship you'd fight them forever. In recent years 3 Palestinians have died for every Israeli. If they were called the French Resistance we'd be on their side.

The French Resistance never targetted civilians.

 

[FastEddie12]

'

the israeli army have to be commended though, before this they had'nt invaded palestine (it's shreds - ghettoes) for a whole year
. . .

👍 Oooh, the irony...

 

[ledhed]

Hmmm they fired a missile through the Hammas leaders window....I wonder what the note said ?

I think maybe the missile itself could have been the message . But I would have wrote a note ..a dear terrorist leader type of note..


So with all this invading and blowing up stuff and missles through your windows at night..


EXACTLY how many Palestinians have been killed....?


Common...first one to get it right gets a cookie ..

 

[Metar]

In a bad spot. Seriously, as much as I'd like there to be a peaceful bloodless resolution to the Arab v. Jew conflict... I just dont see it happening. Arab children are raised to hate Jews. They have been raised that way for countless generations. How does one change that? Not anytime soon. There's only one permanent solution. Let them fight it out to the death.

As a 15 year old in Israel, I had to respond: It's not that way. It is easy and comfortable for us to believe that they are raised to hate us, but when you see and think of their everyday reality, it starts to become obvious. I mean, they wake up hearing supersonic booms of jetplanes and the sound of choppers, they learn at school with the turret of a tank aimed at their school, they run home with missiles in the air, and then, at home, an israeli squad breaks the wall in order to access the next house.

However, those who ARE taught and raised to hate the other side are the israeli children. Here, at my school, even children at the kindergarten will tell you that "A good Arab is a dead Arab", and some, already at the age of 10, will already tell you they'll enlist to some elite unit "to beat the crap out of the Arab terrorists". (these quotes are real quotes that you get to hear once per day, more or less).

There are solutions, but none of them is militant. Israeli PMs have, for generations, been telling "there's no partner" even when there was, so the general concensus here is that there really is none - Arafat was "a terrorist", Abu Mazen is "irrelevant", and the Hamas government is "an illegitimate group of terrorists".

 

[ledhed]

How exactly do you start negotiating with a GOVERNMENT that refuses you the right to exist ? Mr 15 year old Israeli ? If they maybe stopped walking on buses with bombs strapped around them and blowing up your countrymen and women dont you think they would be seen as a more legitamate negotiating parter ? how about if they actually stop killing you while they ask for negotiation ?

The next time you are in a fight try to negotiate while you are being punched ...see how it works .

 

[Metar]

Same, around. Both sides are too deep into this conflict to get out of there. I didn't mean terrorism is the way to go - it IS the worst way, but what IS exactly the difference between a terror act commited by a terrorist group and an act commited by an official, honorable army? Since when has dropping a 1-ton heavy bomb on a busy street been better than blowing a bus up? Both ways are simply the worst.
(Oh, and by the way, let's see you negitiating with the army commanders of your enemy threatening to shot missiles at you any moment)

No way I'll see an end to this conflict during my life.

 

[Touring Mars]

no remorse for those palestinians...they voted for their gov't

Interesting... this is the same logic that the London suicide bombers of exactly one year ago use to 'punish' the people of Britain for voting in a Labour government... despite the fact that just over 1 in 5 Britons voted for Labour in 2001, and even less did so in 2005:- in 2001, 58% of people voted at all, of which 40.7% voted Labour ( = 23.6% of the British population voted Labour in 2001) In 2005, 61% voted at all, of which 35.3% voted Labour ( = 21.5% of the British population voted Labour in 2005)... hardly a case for collective punishment...

Just as Israeli collective punishment against the innocent people of Gaza is unjustified, so were the atrocious acts of murder that the London suicide bombers committed. The fact that the Hamas government is doing nothing to stop their violence against Israeli citizens is something that Hamas should be held responsible for, and not the entire population of Gaza.... also, the fact that terrorists base themselves within refugee camps and other areas densley populated with innocent people, is something that Hamas should bear responsibility for.... but the notion that the Palestinian populace somehow deserves to be deprived of their basic rights and amenities (even water) because 'they voted for Hamas' is blinkered and simplistic...

It angered me greatly to hear the pathetic reasoning of the London suicide bombers, especially the video that surfaced yesterday (another 'Al Jazeera exclusive') - cynically timed, and featuring the characteristic finger-wagging and self-righteous rhetoric of the zealot who simply cannot be wrong (and won't listen to your side of the debate anyway)... that we Britons deserve to die for exercising our democratic right to vote (and just who did Mohammed Sidique Khan used to work for, anyway?) as 'collective punishment' for our role in the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts...

I think we should be very careful about who we wish to 'punish' and for why... and let's just hope we stay part of the 'coalition of the living', and rid ourselves of the 'coalition of the killing'...

 

[DQuaN]

There is not enough rep on GTP to give the last two posts. 👍

 

[Danoff]

Interesting... this is the same logic that the London suicide bombers of exactly one year ago use to 'punish' the people of Britain for voting in a Labour government... despite the fact that just over 1 in 5 Britons voted for Labour in 2001, and even less did so in 2005:- in 2001, 58% of people voted at all, of which 40.7% voted Labour ( = 23.6% of the British population voted Labour in 2001) In 2005, 61% voted at all, of which 35.3% voted Labour ( = 21.5% of the British population voted Labour in 2005)... hardly a case for collective punishment...

What were the percentages in the Hamas election?

Just as Israeli collective punishment against the innocent people of Gaza is unjustified

...and what punishment exactly are you referring to? All the dead residents of Gaza? Where are the victims?

but the notion that the Palestinian populace somehow deserves to be deprived of their basic rights and amenities (even water) because 'they voted for Hamas' is blinkered and simplistic...

Deprived of their rights? To water? I don't know what you're talking about. No human being has a right to food and water. But the palestinian people are not saints here. They did vote for a terrorist government and they themselves participate in terrorism. I applaud the Israelis for standing up to acts of war against their nation.

Since when has dropping a 1-ton heavy bomb on a busy street been better than blowing a bus up?

It depends entirely on the objective. If the objective is to kill innocent people, there is no difference. If the objective is military, there is.

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

Same, around. Both sides are too deep into this conflict to get out of there. I didn't mean terrorism is the way to go - it IS the worst way, but what IS exactly the difference between a terror act commited by a terrorist group and an act commited by an official, honorable army? Since when has dropping a 1-ton heavy bomb on a busy street been better than blowing a bus up? Both ways are simply the worst.
(Oh, and by the way, let's see you negitiating with the army commanders of your enemy threatening to shot missiles at you any moment)

No way I'll see an end to this conflict during my life.

Being a resident of israel, though, you would be affected by your state's policy towards local arabs & your own feeling of personal safety tempered by possible bombs & the daily intrusion of security on mobility.

You sound like an educated being, Gingiba, how do you cope w/ conflicts of interest in your personal dealings, even as not an empowered adult yet?

 

[Touring Mars]

What were the percentages in the Hamas election?

I don't know... the fact is, even those people like myself who did vote for Labour in 2001 didn't necessarily support the war - and even if they did, you can bet your bottom dollar that Labour's foreign policy was not the reason they voted for Labour - so using the excuse that 'you voted for them' as a reason to justify murder is completely pointless.

...and what punishment exactly are you referring to? All the dead residents of Gaza? Where are the victims?

Israel targetted civilian power stations, without which clean water supplies in Gaza cannot be sustained. This is deliberate, targetted 'collective punishment' of the Palestinian people - the victims of this sort of military action are not the terrorists, but ordinary people.

Deprived of their rights? To water? I don't know what you're talking about. No human being has a right to food and water. But the palestinian people are not saints here. They did vote for a terrorist government and they themselves participate in terrorism. I applaud the Israelis for standing up to acts of war against their nation.

I applaud the Israeli people for showing courage in the face of the barbaric terrorism they have endured at the hands of Hamas and other Islamic terrorists. I also applaud those (few) Israeli politicans and diplomats who believe that the way forward is not through collective punishment and grinding the Palestinian people into the dirt, but by attempting to establish a viable Palestinian state. But once again, blaming the entire populace for the behaviour of the militants is going to get us nowhere....

 

[Danoff]

Israel targetted civilian power stations, without which clean water supplies in Gaza cannot be sustained. This is deliberate, targetted 'collective punishment' of the Palestinian people - the victims of this sort of military action are not the terrorists, but ordinary people.

I see no problem with taking out a power station to a region you're about to invade. It just makes good strategic sense. If they did anything else they'd be exposing their soldiers to additional risk for the sake of a people they're not charged with protecting.

 

[ledhed]

My problem is the world is so used to little bullcrap like this....they wont notice the great big bombs going off on North Korea.

 

[YSSMAN]

As an American, this is just another event in the "Great Big Book of Bad Things That Can Happen Right Now."

I don't want to see the Palestinian people suffer, but I don't think every action of the Israeli millitary is unjustified either. Granted, peace in Israel is a two-way street for BOTH parties, and unfortunately, it looks as though there isn't a solution in sight.

The thing that upsets me the most? Average American and British citizens will have an even larger target placed uppon their heads for "supporting" the actions of Israel through our tax money that supplies Israel with weapons, and our votes that put folks like Bush and Blair into office who's foreign policy supports Israel as well.

Granted, I voted for Bush, I supported Afghanistan and Iraq, and I still do to this day. It is one big mess that I often wish American and Britian didn't have to be a part of, but reality hits every time I turn the television on and I hear stories about rockets fired into Israel and the deaths of multiple Palestinians.

Thats the world we live in folks, but of all the things going on right now, I'd say it is the least of our worries as Americans. We've still got to figure out Iraq, fix the growing problems in Afghanistan, and find a way to rid ourselves of the North Korean menace. Obviously our "Path to Peace" didn't work, so why don't we let the folks in Israel figure it out...

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

'

The latest moves against S.Lebannon in the north are bound to remove focus from the quashing of an independant Palestine in the Gaza Strip. Gee, its '67. A peace move. P.S The missile salvo that took out the power station as the opener for the Gaza assault would have to be two missiles if Enron had'nt gone bust & it's extortionate powerplant had any real money to get built in the 'Strip.