Italy wat r u doin?

  • Thread starter Danoff
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A direct copy/paste from a comment I made on Facebook:

I have no words to describe this...... Next, people will be going to jail for incorrect weather predictions!
 
Dear Italy,

Good luck getting any reputable scientists to move to your country.

Sincerely,

A.Scientist
 
Liquid
This thread raises the point that given GTP's international membership, we don't really have that many Italians. Or, many Italians who contribute to the Opinions forum.
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Surely there's a hilarious stereotypical reason for this.
 
I'm sure you could think of a few, while cupping yourself, talking loudly and driving around without a seatbelt.

But yeah, what a ludicrous story. A horrible new legal precedent has been created.
 
Ibonibo
While I totally agree with you on the impossiblity of prediciting a earthquake, it would not have been the badest idea to maybe evacuate the habitants of very old buildings that are very common in that region and to put them in the sport hall or something till the "swarm" quakes are over...
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You obviously don't live in a seismically active region.

There are lots of quakes. Every hour there is a quake somewhere. I've felt several over the past few months.

After the "big one", you can look back and say... that small one there, that one was a sign that there would be a big one.

But before that? You don't know. You can't know. Was that Magnitude 4 a precursor to the 6 that followed? Was that it? Will there be a 7 after? Or a 9? Even Japan gets caught out by quakes, and they understand their own fault system better than most.

You want to blame someone, blame the government that allows people to stay in ther quaint, picturesque and utterly unsafe old buildings, without modification.

Blame the people who choose to stay ther, despite the known dangers.

But blame scientists who have done nothing wrong? Might as well put the statistical method on trial.
 
It's been a while, and I just searched and didn't see anything about an appeal in this case. I hope that something is still going forward, because I haven't forgotten about these poor people.
 
Keef
Surely there's a hilarious stereotypical reason for this.
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Maybe they want to post but need to use a translator, and all it does it turn the text into "Babadabupi? Babadabupi bibaraba barabi badabupi"
 
It is a a terrible situation, it makes you wonder if you would want to be a scientist living working in Italy? I would be leaving promptly.
 
Grayfox
should be an economist.
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Or anything that has no chance of a fatality. That country's justice system is f:censored:ed up beyond repair. Speaking of which, did anyone hear about them reopening the murder case against Amanda Knox? They just can't leave well enough alone, can't they?
 
ziopaperone
I dig up this (rather old) thread to contradict our former fellow GTPer braunracing88. Our justice system isn't 'damaged' beyond repair, as the scientists were cleared of any wrongdoing today. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...of-failing-to-predict-LAquila-earthquake.html)

Personally, I think this trial shouldn't even have started; still, it's better late than never. Your thoughts?
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Their names have been tarnished.

They should really sue(if they can sue in Italy for wrongful prosecution)

Lastly since the trial started, it shows how screwed up the Italian justice system is.

“The credibility of Italy’s entire scientific community has been restored,” said Stefano Gresta, the President of the National Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology

Umm, No
No it hasn't
 
Well, I'm sorry if i didn't explain myself correctly; I do NOT think our justice system is perfect. It's very far from that, actually.
What I meant is the fact that there is an increasing number of judges that are starting to use a bit of common sense, so not all hope is lost.
 
ziopaperone
What I meant is the fact that there is an increasing number of judges that are starting to use a bit of common sense, so not all hope is lost.
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I'm amused that you're trying to paint a picture of a situation that's improving, but the way you describe it is hilariously unappealing. A justice system where a few of the judges are starting to use common sense? Sweet!

How bad must it have been that that's an improvement?!
 
Well, at least regarding high-profile trials* on controversial matters and/or regarding famous people, quite bad. Since the trials tend to be all over the news, judges tend to be carried away by the current, and sometimes make decisions based on popular belief (especially when talking about science and medicine). See the Stamina and Di Bella cases, where judges ordered to administer treatments which were found to be ineffective or even dangerous, or the aforementioned
niky
ruling(s) that claimed vaccines cause autism.
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. That's why I said "common sense", as in correctly using any evidence they have.
Again, sorry if I didn't explain myself correctly enough.

[*Luckily, I haven't had any first-hand experience yet!]
 
Justin
I wonder if they would have been called witches if they happened to predict it?:lol:
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The guy who actually came close to predict the L'Aquila earthquake, Giampaolo Giuliani, was accused of false alarm.

In the meanwhile, the imprenditori who built shoddy houses and sold them as quake-proof never saw a courthouse. I've been there, seen those supposedly anti-seismic buildings, and I can tell you the only way it's possible they avoided a veeery long stint in our very cozy (a-herm) prisons is by lining someone's pockets.

Twenty years of Berlusconi really did a number on the Italian collective consciousness. Can you believe there are people who believe we are a presidential republic?
 
I ask moderators if I can use this thread as "Italy - thread" since the thread name looks spot on.

"Breaking" news: they "discovered" we have mafia inside Rome politicians.

'Mafia capital': Rome hit by mobster scandal
Mafia gangsters, corrupt politicians and a one-eyed former terrorist made millions in Rome by exploiting migrants and gipsies
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...afia-capital-Rome-hit-by-mobster-scandal.html

Celebrate diversity they said, hm hmm.
 
Dennisch
My god. Who would have thought of that. The most corrupt country in Europe has a bunch of mobsters in the Government.

I am utterly shocked.

Truly I am.
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The problem is some normal people here are still surprised. Italians are so different from each other, we have the worse mafious in the world but we also have truly honest people that don't deserve this. They probably didn't want to see what was obvious to me since when I was 5 years old.
 
This is actually pretty hilarious. It goes to show that the Italians are the best at everything. All governments steal people's money. However, the Italians have figured out how to steal so well that they kept everything for themselves.
 
Omnis
This is actually pretty hilarious. It goes to show that the Italians are the best at everything. All governments steal people's money. However, the Italians have figured out how to steal so well that they kept everything for themselves.
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I'll apply demand for political asylum in northen countries.
 
TenEightyOne
You're not coming to Yorkshire, immigration's bad enough as it is, coming up 'ere and converting our barns.
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It least I'm not going to ask unemployment subsidies and then go fighting in Syria, and pretend to build mosques like mushrooms.
 
As for the earthquake business, I think it's time to tell the other side of the story because as usual the media version is a simplified one that doesn't tell the whole picture. It makes it sound like it's about convicting scientists for not being able to predict earthquakes but that is simply not true.

The trial was all about negligence and communication failure.

Negligence: The prosecutor claimed that there were plenty of indications towards an earthquake in the near future (although a precise date, time and location can never be predicted) and that the reason why the accused failed to issue a warning was because of negligence - they didn't check the data properly.

Analyses made after the earthquake showed that the seismic activity was increased in the months prior to the earthquake and that it didn't follow the normal pattern. The earthquake was not a big surprise that came from nowhere and if it wasn't for negligence, the prosecutor claimed, the accused would have been able to see that there was an elevated risk.

Communication failure: The accused held a press conference to reassure the public that there was no danger of an earthquake as far as they could tell. The press conference itself meant that the communication from the scientists was delivered straight to the media without the filters and interpretations that usually would process their communications.

For instance, if the scientist says that "we don't see any elevated risk for an earthquake in the near future", the unfiltered version would sound to the general public like "there won't be an earthquake", while if there had been a filter the message that reached the public might have sounded more like "we don't know if there's going to be an earthquake".

Also, the message being delivered straight from the scientists at the press conference meant that the public placed high trust in the message they recieved (which, again, wasn't necessarily the same message as the scientists intended to communicate).

I haven't read all 700 pages of the sentence so I can't say if I think the sentence is correct in this case, all I'm saying is:
1. The trial wasn't "against science".
2. Don't trust everything you read in the newspapers.

Here's a website where the accused tell their story and it also have the sentence and other documents that gives a bit of insight in the prosecutor's and judge's side: http://processoaquila.wordpress.com/
 
There have been small earthquakes in Victoria, that does not mean there will or ever was going to be a large earthquake anytime in the future.
 

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