John F. Kennedy Assasination. Conspiracy?

[Duke]

I don't know to which show you're referring, but I saw one a few years ago that sounds very similar. It was, I believe, narrated by Walter Cronkite. It was very balanced, and didn't dismiss the other evidence out of hand, but it did show that it was perfectly possible for Oswald to have done it alone. The other evidence was presented as "reasonable doubt" issues in some detail. I do remember being quite impressed at how evenly it was handled.

The one thing I will say is that it's almost impossible for a conspiracy of that magnitude to have remained a complete secret for 40 years. Almost nothing ever does.

 

[Mopar Muscle]

Originally posted by M5Power
Assuming the third shot came from the book depository, behind and to the left of Kennedy, why did his head jerk back and to the left? And, better yet, how did the remaining bullet cause the wound to Kennedy's neck, then go around to Connolly's back then turn again and shatter Connolly's wrist, then turn once again and go into Connolly's thigh?

Kennedy was definately hit from behind, in the actual video footage, you can see blood splatter foreward.

Kennedy's head fell back and to the left for two reasons:
1. As solidlifters stated, the tendons.
2. By the time of the second shot, the limo driver was putting his foot down hard on the gas to get the hell out of there, which creates a gravitational pull to the rear. Kennedy's head went to the left because a quarter of his head on his right side was missing, thus making the leaft heavier.

the bullet never tuned, either I explained on the last post on the first page how connolly's wounds were possible. The bullet exited out of connoly's chest two (2) inches below his right nipple perhaps that was the bullet that went into connolly's wrist, which may have been resting on his thigh.

 

[Danoff]

which creates a gravitational pull

...errr an acceleration anyway.

 

[Duke]

Not to mention the "rocket motor" effect I described in the other thread.

 

[Mopar Muscle]

Originally posted by neon_duke
Not to mention the "rocket motor" effect I described in the other thread.

Indeed.

 

[gtavcfan]

I think Lee Harvey Oswald is INNOCENT. He didn't shot JFK because none of the shots come from the TX Schoolbook Depository. From what I heard it came from the Grassy Knoll, and the fatal shot came from a manduct close to the motorcade. Also the government refused to accect what the witnesses said (from the DVD "The Men Who Killed Kennedy")

 

[mika haka]

Did anybody watch JFK the lost bullet? Brought up an interesting point with regard to the bullet casings and there spread on the floor.

Unless recent documentaries have been lying to us I would have to say the evidence would be enough to convict lee harvey oswald in court.

 

[Keef]

There wasn't already enough to convict him? They probably would have if the man hadn't been shot himself.

 

[mika haka]

There still is unanswered questions, in my mind, like why does the limo driver brake? And the autopsy photos. Plus the obvious question of why he done it, and subsequently denied it.

With regard to the shots though, it does appear they all come from the book depositry.

Lets not forget he did shoot J.D. tippit and was arrested with the murder weapon on him. That appears to indicate a guilty conscience?

 

[Grayfox]

Ever seen the movie "Shooter"?

Same thing here.

Government wanted J.F.K dead and framed someone.

 

[TankAss95]

Aliens.

 

[lbsf1]

If you watch the common footage of the shooting it looks like the driver pulls out a gun and fires the second shot. (Yes I know he didn't however watch the footage and you will see what I mean.)

 

[Northstar]

Aliens.

Crab people right?




I think, as with most conspiracy theories, they are hilarious.

 

[GTsail]

I've never thought that there was any kind of JFK conspiracy, however, I have always been somewhat puzzled by the timing of the three shots, since they seemed to have been made in a very condensed time-frame to be so accurate.

Recently, I saw a new and well-done examination (from last year) of the evidence and I now understand that there is a "new" and much better explanation of the three shots.

The examination was very well researched (thru film study (the Zapruder film and a couple of other films/still pictures were enhanced), eye-witness reports and computer re-enactment). The "new" explanation was that the first shot was taken just after the motorcade turned left, just in front of the Texas Book Depository building. This shot did not hit anyone in the motorcade because there is an over-head road sign just at this point in the street that impeeded the shot. This over-head road sign is still in the Plaza today, but has been changed somewhat since 1963. This 1st shot is some 5 seconds before the next one, so the timing of all three shots overall is a much more reasonable length of time. Any visual evidence of this shot is missing from the Zapruder film because the Zapruder camera is turned off for about 5-7 seconds as the motorcade makes this left turn onto Dealey Plaza.

There were a number of eye-witness accounts who said that they heard the first shot just after this left-hand turn.

In addition, an early shot like this would better explain the location of the three bullet casings that were found. Two casings were found together, while the third one was in a different location. The rifle would have been pointing in a significantly different direction to have made this first shot, so the bullet casings would get ejected in different directions.

GTsail

 

[mika haka]

I've never thought that there was any kind of JFK conspiracy, however, I have always been somewhat puzzled by the timing of the three shots, since they seemed to have been made in a very condensed time-frame to be so accurate.

Recently, I saw a new and well-done examination (from last year) of the evidence and I now understand that there is a "new" and much better explanation of the three shots.

The examination was very well researched (thru film study (the Zapruder film and a couple of other films/still pictures were enhanced), eye-witness reports and computer re-enactment). The "new" explanation was that the first shot was taken just after the motorcade turned left, just in front of the Texas Book Depository building. This shot did not hit anyone in the motorcade because there is an over-head road sign just at this point in the street that impeeded the shot. This over-head road sign is still in the Plaza today, but has been changed somewhat since 1963. This 1st shot is some 5 seconds before the next one, so the timing of all three shots overall is a much more reasonable length of time. Any visual evidence of this shot is missing from the Zapruder film because the Zapruder camera is turned off for about 5-7 seconds as the motorcade makes this left turn onto Dealey Plaza.

There were a number of eye-witness accounts who said that they heard the first shot just after this left-hand turn.

In addition, an early shot like this would better explain the location of the three bullet casings that were found. Two casings were found together, while the third one was in a different location. The rifle would have been pointing in a significantly different direction to have made this first shot, so the bullet casings would get ejected in different directions.

GTsail

That was the documentary i watched called JFK the lost bullet. It did make quite a convincing argument didn't it?

 

[GTsail]

That was the documentary i watched called JFK the lost bullet. It did make quite a convincing argument didn't it?

Yes, the documentary was very thorough and convincing. I think you have nailed the title, I didn't catch the entire show, so I wasn't quite sure. Anyone interested in a new examination of the JFK assasination should check it out.

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[CMvan46]

I'm not a conspiracy nut by any means but I do believe something extremely fishy is being covered up with that assassination. I wrote a big paper on all the weird things surrounding that for a History 12 paper.

I'm pretty positive there was 3 shooters involved. I also don't think Lee Harvey Oswald, who probably did fire 1 of the shots, was acting on his own agenda. I'm not sure who wanted him dead or why but JFK wasn't a very popular president with a lot of very powerful people. Not the least of which included the CIA, the mafia, and Frank Senatra.

 

[Dotini]

JFK wasn't a very popular president with a lot of very powerful people. Not the least of which included the CIA, the mafia, and Frank Senatra.

Neither was Kennedy popular with The Boeing Company, amongst others in the military-industrial complex. Students of the deep politics of the time (and the assassination) will want to appreciate the TFX/F-111 contract shenanigans.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6250

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[ronin85]

Oswald was obviously a patsy.

Kennedy was due to sign into law a bill that would have begun the process of abolishing the federal reserve, of course this would never be allowed to happen by the big bankers so he was assassinated, by a professional team.

Oswald was also under mind control, which he admitted to shortly before his death. For more information on mind control look up MK ultra, and project monarch.

 

[BobK]

Seems we might have to order another supply of tinfoil hats to pass out here.

 

[mika haka]

Seems we might have to order another supply of tinfoil hats to pass out here.

Do you believe that lee harvey oswald done it and had no motive?

I believe oswald fired the shots but as oliver stone says in the filn JFK, WHY? That is the big question. Why did they try and hide so many details, like the fake autopsy photo's, etc.

Somebody, somewhere was protecting their ass, because oswald if he was a loner, couldn't have faked the photo's.

 

[Dotini]

Seems we might have to order another supply of tinfoil hats to pass out here.

Without asserting any conspiracies whatsoever, it is easy to see that there are numerous unresolved questions, conundrums, puzzles, paradoxes, inconsistencies, countless coincidences and outright mysteries associated with the Kennedy assassination. If were easy to resolve, the Warren Commission would have done it decades ago, as would have the congressional investigations afterward which did assert some sort of conspiracy.

As has been pointed out, Kennedy was a widely reviled man in American politics at the time. He had managed to alienate the mob, who helped elect him, to alienate the CIA by pulling the plug on the Bay of Pigs at the 11th hour with serious loss of life, and really to alienate just about everybody who was powerful at the time. Let's not leave out the Vietnamese drug runners and Israelis. Almost everybody on Earth had a motive to see him gone. Only weeping little schoolboys like myself idolized him, and I left that behind long ago as I learned more of the facts surrounding this very tarnished man, Kennedy.

Yes, there have been and are many tinfoil hat conspiracies asserted. Obviously, they cannot all be right right - unless you also assert some inchoate meta-conspiracy when literally everyone from Lyndon Baines Johnson to the Secret Service to Clint Murchison was out to get him simultaneously and without conscious organization, or "breathing together" in the literal interpretation of the term, conspiracy.

There have been moderators in the past who have very understandably locked threads asserting ridiculous conspiracies and excessive speculation. Personally, I believe that Kennedy and his times were puzzling enough and interesting enough to study and examine skeptically without asserting any particular resolving conspiracy.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[ronin85]

Seems we might have to order another supply of tinfoil hats to pass out here.

Why, do you need one?

Be a good little boy and go back to sleep, everything will just fine

 

[Dotini]

Why, do you need one?

Be a good little boy and go back to sleep, everything will just fine

If such a thread as this is not going to be locked, we need to be polite and respectful to one another at all times. Also, any important assertions that are not already widely accepted, such as that Oswald was under some kind of MK ultra mind-control, should be accompanied by the most credible available link to supportive evidence or testimony.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Why are Americans so fascinated by conspiracy theories?

 

[Dotini]

Why are Americans so fascinated by conspiracy theories?

It is probably a fallacy that most of us are fascinated by conspiracy theories, just as it is probably a fallacy that most Americans believe in a manifest destiny in which we, uniquely, have been ordained to conquer a whole continent and show the rest of the world the true light of right, reason and justice.

Even so, our 16th president, Abraham Lincoln who guided the Union through Civil War and ended slavery, was assassinated by a conspiracy. Not a conspiracy theory, but a conspiracy. And one whose loose ends have never been fully tidied up. Kennedy presented the idolized image of a modern America of freedom, progress and justice. His assassination under grossly inadequately explained circumstances compounds the anger and frustration we feel to this day.

So conspiracies seriously offend our majestic stroll through destiny and written history. They are a blot on the copybook, a smudge on the escutcheon. Things hatched in secrecy, carried out covertly, and covered up in misfeasance, malfeasance and nonfeasance threaten our virtuous self-image with the ways of crooked old Machiavellian Europe, the very thing we overthrew to establish something better.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Sach]

I honestly don't have an opinion on this picture, but someone posted it elsewhere today. Actually, they had even more in common.

 

[Nicksfix]

Oswald was a fall guy. I still think the mob did JFK in.

"Kennedy's not going to make it to the ((1964)) election -- he's going to be hit."

-- Santo Trafficante, the top Florida mobster, to an FBI informer in August 1962.

"You know what they say in Sicily: if you want to kill a dog, you don't cut off the tail, you cut off the head."

-- Carlos Marcello, Mafia boss in New Orleans, to an acquaintance that same month, explaining why President John Kennedy, not Attorney General Robert Kennedy, would be killed.

Who then killed Oswald to keep him quiet ? Jack Ruby, a man with ties to Marcello and Trafficante.

 

[JacksHerer]

I don't think a JFK thread can be complete without mention of Israel.

I expect Mossad were involved, or Israel at least funded the required bribes. Your enemy is my enemy etc.

From what I understand, Ben-Gurion wanted Nuclear weapons to ensure the safety of newly created Israel, Kennedy was set against empowering Israel as he knew what the Zionists had planned.

LBR becomes President, he arms Israel, also doubles and trebles the aid budget to Israel.
By 1967 Israel has the means to launch surprise air strikes and steal the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

After seeing the Zapruder film and taking into account the dozens of people on the grassy knoll who thought the shots were coming from behind them, I think that more than one person was involved. I'm not going to speculate beyond that, because there are too many possibilities.