John Titor:Man From The Future?

  • Thread starter THE GAME
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mybad4990
http://www.johntitor.com/

pessimist.gif


i dunno....but most of it is hard to believe....but most of it sounds true.
 
I believe that this is the single stupidest thing I've read in my entire life. Absolutely stupid, just completely stupid.
 
Well, we've only got 11 short months to wait before the guy proves himself all wet when the US does not dissolve in Civil War II.
 
Someone should tell London not to bid for the 2012 Olympics...

This was an interesting read, but mostly borne out of sci-fi (I'm thinking Star Trek: IV Voyage Home, Star Trek:TNG - Romulan warp drive technology - Seven Days and Timecop). And he knows more about the technological side than anything else.

The politics is speculation, his Middle East "guesses" are just scare-mongering guesses, but what really lets him down is his medical knowledge. We have "some progress" on cancerS now, but AIDS is no longer the death sentence it was and I anticipate a vaccine/cure within the next decade easily - if you can, read up on HIV-0. Besides, what's harder to cure - a retrovirus or a disease with no constant aetiology coming from your own genes?
 
The fact that you can buy books on E-Bay and Amazon makes me think that this John Titor was quite clever and has probably made quite alot of money from it. The "cut-away" picture of the time machine I have sent to a friend in Oxford who is a military engineer to see what he thinks of it.

I'll post his verdict once I receive the E-Mail
 
Sorry for double posting, just found this:

"Man I love this guy.
To bad his "time machine" is 1960's era toxic gas and radiation detection used in fallout shelters for VIP military. Oddly enough, even after it was identified, people still won't give up their conviction that he's the real deal. Check out the forums at the timetravelinstitute.com"
 
This guy must be rolling in money after exploiting gullible people by convincing them to buy his books, and anything with his name on it.
 
I visited the link through another site and it's very wooly if you ask me. I particularly liked the effect of posting under an assumed name so that we can't track him down. I also like how he showed up right at about the time when he was three ... someone go and get all the seven-year-olds in Florida now!
 
Anyone who believes time travel is possible simply does not understand what time is (or rather, isn't). So I guess if this is about time travel, I needn't even follow the link.
 
Why is this back from the dead?

Anyway, since I didn't post when this was new, even after having found the sight a few months before the thread, I think this Titor guy is just plain wacko. Something like this would take too much effort to do just to make a little cash off idiots.
 
Arwin
Anyone who believes time travel is possible simply does not understand what time is (or rather, isn't). So I guess if this is about time travel, I needn't even follow the link.

Space and time are perpendicular to each other (in 4 dimensions. Or rather 11). Space is curved by gravitational effects - as is Time, thanks to proof offered in Special Relativity and more recently by Hawking - and the universe as a whole is curved into a sphere. Thus the end of space is also the beginning of space. Ergo the end of time is the beginning of time. In theory, time travel is possible (in both directions), although the mechanics are somewhat harder. That said, we travel in time every day. Almost 24 hours of it, straight forwards.

Quod Erat Demonstratum.
 
My take is this. Time is a measure of movement, and doesn't exist in itself. It's a little like money - just as you use a quantity of matter to measure the value of other matter, you use time to measure movement against a quantity of other movement. Every time measuring device is based on regular movement, and that's no coincidence.

Once you understand that time only measures movement, then time travel comes down to moving in different speeds. Now you can imagine this if you travel into the future - simply stop your own movement (of course that still requires you to be frozen and reanimated preferably without any side effects) and have yourself be reanimated at the desired time destination. Unfortunately, time passes by as it normally does and considering the large quantity of movement taking place around you there's a big chance something will go wrong.

But if moving into the future requires only you to stop moving and if you must, you could call it time travel, but don't expect to be able to buy a return ticket - moving into the past is impossible because while you shouldn't move too much, everything else in existence should move backwards.

That means every single living organism should restore itself from ashes, come back alive at say age 80, regress into the womb, etc. and that for not just billions of people on earth but everything on earth, everything in our universe, etc.

That doesn't just sound very unlikely to happen, it's downright impossible. Hence my take on this matter. I disagree with the end of time being the beginning of time because that implies that everything in existence moves in a perfect circle (or any other pattern of movement that has the same effect of ending up at the same place it started on). It basically presumes limits to infinity, and that doesn't make any sense at all.

Note that I don't believe gravity has any effect on time, because time doesn't exist - movement exists, and certainly gravity has an effect on movement, but it doesn't reverse movement, only alters it. No time travel there.
 
Arwin
My take is this. Time is a measure of movement, and doesn't exist in itself. It's a little like money - just as you use a quantity of matter to measure the value of other matter, you use time to measure movement against a quantity of other movement. Every time measuring device is based on regular movement, and that's no coincidence.

Once you understand that time only measures movement, then time travel comes down to moving in different speeds. Now you can imagine this if you travel into the future - simply stop your own movement (of course that still requires you to be frozen and reanimated preferably without any side effects) and have yourself be reanimated at the desired time destination. Unfortunately, time passes by as it normally does and considering the large quantity of movement taking place around you there's a big chance something will go wrong.

But if moving into the future requires only you to stop moving and if you must, you could call it time travel, but don't expect to be able to buy a return ticket - moving into the past is impossible because while you shouldn't move too much, everything else in existence should move backwards.

That means every single living organism should restore itself from ashes, come back alive at say age 80, regress into the womb, etc. and that for not just billions of people on earth but everything on earth, everything in our universe, etc.

That doesn't just sound very unlikely to happen, it's downright impossible. Hence my take on this matter. I disagree with the end of time being the beginning of time because that implies that everything in existence moves in a perfect circle (or any other pattern of movement that has the same effect of ending up at the same place it started on). It basically presumes limits to infinity, and that doesn't make any sense at all.

Note that I don't believe gravity has any effect on time, because time doesn't exist - movement exists, and certainly gravity has an effect on movement, but it doesn't reverse movement, only alters it. No time travel there.

Gravity does indeed have an effect upon time - as does speed.

As you approach the speed of light the effects of time dilation become, theoretically, more noticeable until, at c, time seems to stand still.

This is why any time-measuring device based upon movement is fundamentally flawed. The act of movement results in the slowing of time for whatever is moving.

The limits and resources (including space, time and gravity - which is simply a function of mass) of the universe - whilst being finite - ARE infinite. It is not possible to reach the edge of the universe, for you will simply come back the other way. Space is spherical. Time is a function of space and is thus ALSO spherical. However, don't make the assumption that changing space - or time - in a localised point will affect space - or time - throughout the universe. The appearance of a black hole 4 billion light years away - whilst technically having an effect, as gravitational forces persist to infinity, won't result in noticeable time dilation in our little Local Group, despite having catastrophic effects near the event horizon..
 
Nah, in my honest opinion the speed of light has nothing to do with time. Light is affected by gravity, and that's interesting. But to say that means time rather than the movement of light is affected is a misinterpretation. I will restate again: time cannot be affected, because it is an abstract concept used to compare movement. Only movement can be affected, but that cannot change time, only measuring of time.

Consider movement of objects and reflection (light) of objects as two different things. Surely your perception of the reflections can change, particularly if you travel at the speed of light, but it has no effect on the movement of the objects.

The theory of space being a snake that bites itself in the tail doesn't have anything compelling going for it if you ask me. There is no more reason to believe that the cycle is exactly the same after one 4 billion cycle as there is to believe today is the same as tomorrow. Lifting Groundhog Day from 24 hours to 4 billion years doesn't make it any more believeable.
 
Arwin
Nah, in my honest opinion the speed of light has nothing to do with time. Light is affected by gravity, and that's interesting. But to say that means time rather than the movement of light is affected is a misinterpretation. I will restate again: time cannot be affected, because it is an abstract concept used to compare movement. Only movement can be affected, but that cannot change time, only measuring of time.

No. Time is integral to space. Time is the fourth dimension - of 11.

Einstein's General Relativity states that as one approaches the speed of light, time slows. His calculations can be extended to show that time slows as one progresses at ANY speed, but the time dilation effect is miniscule until you approach the speeds at which light travels.

The speed - measured in three dimensions - of light is cogent to time - the fourth dimension. At 0% of the speed of light, time progresses at 100% of its ability. At 100% of the speed of light, time progresses at 0% of its ability. The two are linked - this is stated in General Relativity theory.


Arwin
Consider movement of objects and reflection (light) of objects as two different things. Surely your perception of the reflections can change, particularly if you travel at the speed of light, but it has no effect on the movement of the objects.

I'm not sure what the relevance to space-time is here. This sounds like philosophy.

However, I CAN link it.

If an object is travelling away from you at c, you will not be able to see it. It will appear to you to have vanished, as it moves forwards in time relative to you.

If you are travelling away from an object at c, you will be able to see the object, but to you it will seem to be frozen in time - the light coming from it set off in the same direction as you at the same time as you, so will remain in the exact condition, to you, as it did when you set off. Thus your perception is that IT is frozen in time.


Arwin
The theory of space being a snake that bites itself in the tail doesn't have anything compelling going for it if you ask me. There is no more reason to believe that the cycle is exactly the same after one 4 billion cycle as there is to believe today is the same as tomorrow. Lifting Groundhog Day from 24 hours to 4 billion years doesn't make it any more believeable.

A snake biting itself - Ouroboros - is a two dimensional shape. The universe is an 11 dimensional shape. From any given point, it stretches out to infinity, but has an end over there somewhere. But from the point you believe it to end, it seems to stretch out to infinity, with an end over there somewhere. And so on.

Space-time is ultimately infinitely curved. There isn't an end, or a beginning. If you set off to find the end - even at c, and assuming you didn't age or get severly bored - you'd find yourself crossing your own path several times, despite not changing course. At no point will you be aware that you've started to go back the other way.


This is all in line with current theory.
 
What are the other 7 dimensions? Has anyone been able to describe them or just identify them?
 
I have no idea. At this point I give up and leave it to the theoretical physicists.

Take it away, Hawking... :D
 
Current theory is the key word here, Famine. It changes every year. They are just attempts to find a model that account for current perceptions of reality. That they fit the perceptions largely doesn't mean they are valid, because all previous models accurately described reality too until new data was found that didn't agree with it.

At this level and scale, current theory is highly conjectural and I find it very helpful to keep going back to the basics. At the same time, I like to keep human nature in mind too. The concept 'has to end somewhere over there' is because causality is so deeply rooted into the human brain that infinity is a difficult concept to deal with for us. For now though, there is no reason to believe it 'has to end somehwere over there' at all. If you do, you always run into something like the beginning and the end. Now that 'problem' is being solved by saying that the beginning and the end are the same point, that we circle into ...

I think it is Jupiter that has this ring of debris. Say that our galaxy was embedded in that debris. We could conjecture the same theory from our readings of that situation, but eventually we'd discover that the ring becomes contaminated with new meteors on a different course.

As far as your time explanation goes, yes, see I read the original. Forgive me if this sounds presumptious but few people look at the original works and forget about the basic concepts. Einstein specifically wrote he thought that time travel was impossible and never forgot that time was a way of measuring movement. So when he looked at:

If an object is travelling away from you at c, you will not be able to see it. It will appear to you to have vanished, as it moves forwards in time relative to you.

If you are travelling away from an object at c, you will be able to see the object, but to you it will seem to be frozen in time - the light coming from it set off in the same direction as you at the same time as you, so will remain in the exact condition, to you, as it did when you set off. Thus your perception is that IT is frozen in time.

He knows that the key words here are "not be able to see it", "seem to be frozen in time", "perception is that it is frozen in time".

Time 'slowing down' represents that the observation of movement is distorted by speed of movement. In the end it's like claiming a watch doesn't run if you throw it into an absolutely dark room.

As for the multiple dimensions, I think we should distinguish factors from dimensions, but it is understandable these things are taken into account. Say you take a snapshot of two starts under influence of each other, planets, or a black hole. If you wanted to know what that snapshot actually represents, you'd have to factor in among other time (what you see is what happened long ago) and gravity (what you see is distorted by gravitational effects). You could call these the 4th and 5th dimensions, and you can come up with many other things.

You can come up with tons of stuff that you could call dimensions, and some have. In my humble opinion, I think you're fooling yourself if you think a clear distinction can be made in Hawking's work between philosophy and science, and I doubt he would claim otherwise.
 
Famine
I have no idea. At this point I give up and leave it to the theoretical physicists.

Take it away, Hawking... :D
Oh yes, I stumped Famine! w00t :sly:
Time 'slowing down' represents that the observation of movement is distorted by speed of movement. In the end it's like claiming a watch doesn't run if you throw it into an absolutely dark room.
But at that level that's all they can claim, what is being percieved as happening.
 
Oh, wow. I thought I knew a lot about this stuff. It is way over my head. You, Famine, are a genius.
 
(G)
Wow. Someone's been reading the latest concepts of GUT recently.

Nope. Don't pay attention to that guff - it's WAAAAY over my head.


Here's a fun concept for you. Get a globe. Note the lines of longitude which originate at the North Pole, diverge to the Equator, and converge to end at the South Pole (or the other way around). It's perfectly possible to walk, in a straight line, all the way back to where you started without ever deviating.

Now - and you may want to get some pencils out at this point - imagine that some joker has added two more poles - at 90/90E and 90/90W. Let's call them the West and East Poles. The lines of latitude now converge at the West Pole, diverge to the Meridian/International Date Line and come back together for the East Pole (or the other way around again). You can walk, in straight line, all the way around the world, without ever deviating and end up back where you started.

Now imagine that some fool has gone and added two MORE poles, at 90/0 and 90/180. Let's call them the Meridian Pole and the Dateline Pole. Lines of Latitude now also start at one, diverge to the great circle at 90W/90E and meet again at the other. The pencils should be coming in handy around now.

But wait! There's more! Pencil in a seventh pole. At the Core. You can now draw a pair of curved lines from every single Pole to every single other Pole. You are now able to travel, in any one of three dimensions within the confines of the Earth, in a perfectly straight line from any Pole and end up back where you started without deviation. This is exactly* how travelling in the Universe is. If you are able to reach the furthest point from your start point you will start to head back towards your start point without ever being aware of it.

Where the model starts to break down is when you realise that if you reach escape velocity - 24,000mph - you can leave the confines of the 7-Pole Earth model. However, the same thing applies to the Universe - you should be able leave the confines of it if you reach escape velocity. But, since the escape velocity of the universe is the speed of light, it doesn't exactly matter.

Anyone not confused at this point?



Arwin - that's what separates science from religion. Science is based on theory, perception and modification. Religion is based on belief, belief and belief. Scientists remodel theories every time new evidence is presented - whether it corroborates or disproves the original theory. Belief rarely changes.

The best scientific minds currently agree with what I posted (it's actually the other way around, but hey. Perception is in the eye of the beholder :D). Not to denigrate your opinions on the Universe, but that's all they are - opinions. If they fly in the face of current theory, then your opinions are currently wrong.


*Truism
 
Famine
And I said that where?

Your last post implied as much:

Not to denigrate your opinions on the Universe, but that's all they are - opinions. If they fly in the face of current theory, then your opinions are currently wrong.
 
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