Kazunori: Gran Turismo 5 out during 2007

[FooAtari]

I'm not really bothered how long GT5 takes as long as it breaks the mould. Im expecting big things from GT5 and Forza 2.

More realistic physics in every area:

Colision physics
Car Physics - From handling to rolling the car or whatever in massive crashes.
Proper Grass/Gravel physics
Tyre physics

I want..

Different weather.
More A.I. cars
CLEVERER A.I.
A more structered single player and career mode. (no more being able to upgrade the car untill you are way faster than the A.I. and wining the race by default)
Less simplistic car upgrade process
Online Play
Car Interiors

And probably more I cant think of right now.

I want all of this is more important than great graphics. Good graphics are nice, but not as important as gameplay...

Forza already as a couple of these features. But if they want to continue to call themselves SIM games in the next gen they better start to act like it! :-)

If GT5 is just another small upgrade on the previous game ala GT2-4 I will not be impressed, it's a Next Gen game after all.

 

[s12ken]

We can all say what we want, what should be where, but it boils down to this.... whatever KY decides, goes. We all saw why GT4 was taking so long, (and why GT3 came out too soon). The Gran Turismo series along with the final fantasy series (not to mention MGS) are supposed to be the swan song for Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Much like what Windows, Halo and Xbox are the Microsoft. Give PD sometime to master the development of the PS3 before wishing and wanting and specualting things because you are only going to disappoint yourself. My guess is PD, Square and KCET have probably had a PS3 dev kit to work with since early 2004, and have probably come out with visual testers to see how far the new hardware can be pushed, they did this with Gran Turismo 1 and 2, Final Fantasy 8 and Metal Gear Solid. When these games came out they were at the Ultimate pinnacle for the PSone. When the PS2 first came out GT3, FFX and MGS2 ere all outstanding titles too (save for the GT3 car selection) and now we have GT4, MGS3, and soon FFXII the latter 2 are both excellent examples of how far the current hardware CAN be pushed i have only speculations to how pretty FFXII really is (i hear it's mad sick! ). But nitpickers as we are, we will always find something wrong with something in future titles. There's always something we know that we think is right but really? If we don't work for the game publishers themselves, what do we REALLY know about the capablilities of the games and how far they can push the envelope?

 

[JohnBM01]

You know, S12Ken has a point (actually several). I guess my storyline about all of this is, how will PD work to make GT5 bigger and better (like it's actually possible) than its predecesor, GT4? And can it be done within the time frame they specify? The timeframe we know of is "during 2007." I'll sit through delays if need be. I got nothing special in my life to do between now and GT5's release besides go to school and probably graduate as best as possible.

I don't know. It's just skepticism. It's not in a sarcastic manner or a pessimistic matter, just kind of don't know if PD can pull it off within at least a year and a half. If they can do it to success, I'm not mad. In fact, I'm saying all this out of respect and love of the game, as us sports buffs say. This is assuming that we'll see a broad[er] array of cars, many more tracks, many more features, and all that. Can it be done within this time? Or maybe I'm just thinking about the time in transition between GT3 and GT4 a little too much.

 

[s12ken]

Too me GT3 disappointed me greatly because of the amount of depth that was lost with the transition... I'm not holding my breath for GT5. I'd actually prefer they take a little more time in cleaning up than end up with a game we'd all hate. GT4 had a clean enough time frame, Imagine rerendering all 700 cars in one year it's enough to kill anyone sensless, given that it takes about two months to render polygons to all of our expectations. 2007 is realistic but still a bit rushed that's IF they started from scratch? But i guess they already have a Porlogue type tech tester to use based on the GT4 engine (it would make more sense to use the GT4 source code rather than code up a new one (budget and time contious wise). So until KY gives a SOLID release date, don't count your chickens before they've hatched. Unless you want a repeat of what happed with GT4.

 

[Gabkicks]

was pd really not smart enough to gather lots of data for gt5 when they were making gt4? did they really not have any access or knowledge of the PS3 sdk when making gt4?

 

[s12ken]

The fact that they came out with the GT:vision movie suggests that they have. When they were transtioning from GT2000 to GT3 they probably already had the PS2 sdk as well. We all know what hardware is running the PS3, it's only a matter of time when PD gets playable cod out, that's the easy part. The difficulty is recoding rerendering and adding new features to an already completed game. Think of it as taking down and engine... dismantling it and putting it back together with upgraded parts (some will fit and some just won't). To me one of the most important upgrades to GT is the addition of photomode, if any of you drop by the photomode forums will will see a plethora of creative geniuses there, and the addition of B-Spec was most welcome for the enduros.

Speculations: (realistic ones)
-A-spec points will finally have some meaning (i.e. specialty parts for you car or online purchases (doubtful)
-Improved Photomode, more options and lens characteristics
-replay video saving to avi or mp4(again doubtful)
-better garage interface
-stricter restrictions in some races.
-probably another 50 cars wouldn't hurt...

I don't mind that there are a gazillion skylines in the game, just a little more selection from other countries would be nice.

 

[Gabkicks]

i am not really a big ford cosworth fan, but i think it is pretty crazy there is no ford cosworth or normal rwd R33's or r34's in the game. I've concluded the Dev team of GT4 is quite eccentric so we cant be sure what to expect.

 

[Dave A]

PD have aleady done most of the research for GT5 while doing it for GT4, so there less prep time. As for PS3 dev kits being out early 2004, not a chance. TNot much in the PS3 was set back then so a dev kit would be useless anyway. Also it's been stated when the PS3 dev kits were sent out, the very first ones, the ones that went to inhouse developers ie PD and the like were delivered in December 04, other companies started getting them over the months after that. Even then the Dev kits wern't upto full spec for the PS3, the GPU hadn't been finnshed, I'm not sure if it has now tbh.

 

[Cobra_UK]

live4speed hit the nail on the head there. PD did not spend 4 years just for GT4 but for all future GT games. From what I was hearing while GT4 was in development every car was catalogued with information that wasn't even available in GT4 and with very high quality 3D models that then had to be scaled down to PS2's rendering power. They still have all that information, it's not been thrown away. They may have to add some more new cars that will be in production by 2007 though.

To be honest I could live without damage but realistic collision physics, tyre marks and particle effects. I could also live without car interiors and just, say, 50 more cars and 5 tracks on top of GT4 with PS3 physics, graphics and sound, but I'd like a highly revised gameplay options (including the features omitted in GT4, especially the online and 2 player features), 3D spectator crowds and dynamic weather and lighting. Some good in-house testing wouldn't hurt for a bug free and consistent game. I'd buy that. I'd rather have that in 2 years than wait for damage and car interiors for 4 years.

 

[Maven]

I don't know why you guys are setting yourselves up for a major disappointment by thinking that there will be more cars in GT5 than in GT4. I can practically guarantee you that there won't be. Look at what PD has done in the past.

When transitioning from GT2 to GT3, they really cut down on the number of cars to focus on the visual upgrades, which at the time was better than almost everything else. Again, now with the PS3, they are not going to focus on gathering an outstanding number of cars. Instead, they are going to focus on grahics, damage and possibly some new effects. To me, that is perfectly understandable and I am looking forward to it, even if it only has a couple hundred of other cars. I mean, c'mon, most people were complaining that 700 cars was too much!

So, judging from past experience, GT5 will not have thousands of cars, it will have a few more tracks, with a couple older ones removed, it will have improved and expanded graphics, and it will most likely include damage. There you go.

 

[Dave A]

We don't know if there will be more or less, the fact that it's happened once doesn't mean it will again. At the same time it doesn't mean it won't, we just don't know and we don't have enough info at this time. I doubt there would be as big a difference in numbers though if there are less.

 

[s12ken]

I'm very doubtful repeat VERY VERY doubtful that damage will be included into GT5, if they do that means reducing the number of cars from 700 to 100 or less to model damage and damage physics acuratley, soo it's a major trade off from gameplay, realism and sheer numbers. we can only have either one.

 

[Dave A]

No, it's not doubtfull. It's been announced damage will play a major part in GT5. That doesn't soud doubtful to me. Also, the number of cars won't matter if they make a decent poly deformatio model and simply subject all the car modles to that engine like they do to the physics engine ect. We can have both, end of.

 

[s12ken]

I know it's possible but i'm not holding my breath, it's still a big trade off.. if they figure it out good, if they don't oh well...

 

[Dave A]

There isn't any big trade off really. If theyre making a poly deformation engine they just need to apply all the car models to that. It's not as hard as people imagine, it's hard but for professional coders it's no big deal. Since GT5 will have damage, and it will play a major part in the game I'm guessing this is the way they've done it. You don't need to model each car with and without damamge, you still only need one model of the car, the deformation engine works with the physics engine to do the rest. I'm not saying we WILL get over 700 cars and the damage, since the car models will be more detailed they'd need the body panels to be modeled indiidually rather than the whole car (how much work this takes depepnds on how the models they made during GT4's development were done, but if they arn't upto standard PD will be modelling new cars anyway so nothing lost there). Look at Race driver 2, the cars in that arn't all modeled with and without damamge, they're modeled without and the damage engine does the rest.

 

[63AvantiR3]

[Edited]... since the car models will be more detailed they'd need the body panels to be modeled individually rather than the whole car (how much work this takes depepnds on how the models they made during GT4's development were done, but if they aren't up to standard PD will be modelling new cars anyway so nothing lost there).

Off topic from the release of GT5, but on topic of this modeling of individual body panels... This sounds cool and more like what I've been hoping Gran Turismo would do for awhile now.

With individually coded body panels, the game developers don't have to put in six 2003 Nissan Skylines for example. With individually coded body panels they could simply put in one 2003 Nissan Skyline (the base model) and as you select options, different body panels get put on the base model turning it into something else. Allow me to show you what I'm talking about. My example won't be on the Skyline because I don't know them as well as I know U.S. domestics, but this could be applied uniformly over most all cars. Now say I want to purchase a 1989 Ford Mustang.

Select which model you want
[👎]LX hatchback
[👍]LX notchback
[👎]LX convertible
[👎]GT hatchback
[👎]GT convertible
Selecting any of the LX packages automatically voids GT packages; vice-versa with selecting a GT package.

Engine selection
[👎]6 cylinder
[👍]8 cylinder
Selecting one voids the other.

Transmission type
[👎]automatic
[👍]manual
Here we could chose how we drive each car.

See what we've done is combined what would be multiple different cars in previous versions of Gran Turismo down to one car with different body panels applied depending upon which options package you choose. The LX notchback and hatchback really only vary from the 'C-pillar' (above the beltline) back over the decklid and that's it. The GT model gets front and rear valances along with side skirts that the GT convertible gets as well. Convertibles just chop the top off, the rear quarter windows can roll down, and there's a convertible boot cover.

Essentially Polyphony Digital could model two cars, the LX and GT, and have different coded body panels put on the car depending upon what options you chose. Wouldn't this method be a space saver?

 

[dannypapy]

quando esce?

 

[FooAtari]

I know it's possible but i'm not holding my breath, it's still a big trade off.. if they figure it out good, if they don't oh well...

You need to demand more... Were talking the next generation here, more powerful hardware to work with, and your gonna be happy with same game with prettier graphics?

If they need to reduce the car count a bit, knock a few Skylines and Civics off the list.

If MS Game Studious can implement a failry decent damage model on over 200 cars on current hardware, I dont at the moment see why it cant be done with far more cars on the PS3/Xbox. I would take slightly less flashy graphics if it meant a good damage model. It will still look damn good, but you have to push and expand on a game in more than one area.

 

[Perotonia786]

May everything be realistic NO EASY, NO HARD may it be absolute true in driving.

 

[FGTChampion 143]

I heard that 6 car racing will come to an end in the GT Series when Vision Gran Turismo (GT5) ships into stores. Polyphony Digital plans to have a range of 16-20 cars(on road courses), and i hope they will have online play . If you think they will finally get the license from the FIA to use F1 race cars YOU ARE WRONG 🤬. When it comes out you might have to be better than today's F1 drivers. Yes I am a Newbie, and i looked around the forums answering questions about VGT and strategies to winning races.

 

[Dave A]

Sony owns the rights to the FIA Formula 1 license so it is possible but unlikely we'll see modernn F1 cars in, maybe older ones and some F1 tracks but newer cars will be saved for official F1 games and we'll only get a new Polyphony car to represent modern F1 type cars.

 

[63AvantiR3]

So live4speed what do you think of the individual body panels idea? PD could create only 1 automobile of a certain year and the assortment of different models could follow with their body panels.

 

[amar212]

Small info UPDATE:

No GT game has been listed for showing-off on Tokyo Game Show so far by Sony. Games announced are:

PlayStation2
- Rogue Galaxy
- Shadow of the Colossus
- Ratchet & Clank 4
- Siren 2
- Mawaza
- Gunparade Orchestra: Shiro no Shou

PSP
- Fuku Fuku no Shima [The Happy Happy Island]
- Talkman
- Byte Hell 2000
- Bleach: Heat the Soul 2
- Koukaku Kidoutai: Stand Alone Complex

Nore GT5, nore GT4 for PSP. However, maybe it is a surprise. Few more days..

 

[Jedi2016]

- Fuku Fuku no Shima [The Happy Happy Island]

I don't wanna know.

 

[Robin]

- Fuku Fuku no Shima [The Happy Happy Island]

I don't wanna know.

...........I guess it will be the star of the show......

 

[Dave A]

So live4speed what do you think of the individual body panels idea? PD could create only 1 automobile of a certain year and the assortment of different models could follow with their body panels.

I quite like that idea, you pick the model and when you select it it should tell you the minnimum and maximum price for variations of tat model, then you could just select the variation you want from a list of options. In the model selection screen where you choose the base model it should have a list down the side of the different spec names so you can quickly check if what you want is there without flicking through all the options.

 

[Homer_SS]

OOPS double post Sorry

 

[Homer_SS]

I do hope a Vision GT is released with PS3. It would kick ass seeing GT4 on HIGH RES.

 

[Dave A]

It would kick ass paying another £30-£40 quid for a game I've already played the wheels off.

 

[Hun200kmh]

It would kick ass paying another £30-£40 quid for a game I've already played the wheels off.

I will consider spending money in "GT4 for the PS3" even if the only change from the current GT4 is that the new one allows 20 cars per race. Anyway, IIRC, GTC was, since its release, a mid-price game. Maybe we get something like that again.

PS - I bought GTC, just because it had Autumn Ring and a few new cars. I also bought GTP (mid price also). And I don't regret having bought both these "mini" games.