Lanzante to Produce 5 McLaren P1 LMs Based Off Track-Only GTRs

[Famine]

I have no idea why anyone cares whether these cars are "road legal".

I'm not sure that anybody care cares, but when manufacturers yell about their production road car's lap time of such and such a track, it's reasonable to expect that it's actually a production road car and not a one-off prototype mule with slicks and a roll cage.

But then there's no record-keeping body and no official times either, so I have no idea why anyone cares about the times.

It's a race track... you know... where you use race/track cars.

The Nordschleife actually technically isn't. It's a one-way private toll road. There's speed limits, German traffic laws apply (overtaking on the left, for example) and there's even junctions for various villages on it. Even during tourist open days, you might find there's a local on his way home.

Although when manufacturers buy it for a day or so and no-one else can use it, it probably is a race track.

 

[Danoff]

The Nordschleife actually technically isn't. It's a one-way private toll road. There's speed limits, German traffic laws apply (overtaking on the left, for example) and there's even junctions for various villages on it. Even during tourist open days, you might find there's a local on his way home.

What?!?

I'm not sure that anybody care cares, but when manufacturers yell about their production road car's lap time of such and such a track, it's reasonable to expect that it's actually a production road car and not a one-off prototype mule with slicks and a roll cage.

It would make more sense to quote it with slicks and a roll cage when you're talking about lap times. It would be more relevant to any circumstance in which the car actually gets used on the track. They go to a race track to quote something that is supposedly relevant to the road.. which makes zero sense to me. It's not relevant to the road, it's relevant to a track.

I think this is a much larger discussion than the P1, and I don't want to really derail this thread. Let me take an example though... brake fade. Nobody wants brake fade right? What a horrible thing... we need brake pads that won't fade... on the road.... why? Maybe you care about this for Autobahn use. Why do Americans care about it? We have no roads where you're going to experience brake fade. And if you take your car to the track, get noisy, non-road-friendly track pads. Now brake fade would obviously be a problem for posting killer laptimes at the 'ring, but it makes zero sense for it to affect the perception of the car for use on roads (at least in the US).

The FXX is more like what I'd expect. This is a track car, it's designed for the track, it's what you want at the track (if your driving skills are just insanely good). I actually don't know why more manufacturers don't create dedicated track toys for the purpose of going to the track and having a blast... while creating road toys that are specifically NOT intended for the track.

The dodge demon is also very close to what I'd expect as well. I just don't know why you need to be able to drive your demon to the drag strip. Pickup truck + trailer, job jobbed.

There is a weird obsession within the car community over having your daily driver be the car you track on the weekend. It seems out of touch with reality to me.

 

[dimassa19]

"... probably is a race track". Sorry @Famine, but the world knows that the Nürburgring it's a race track. We don't need discuss this.

 

[TheCracker]

The FXX is more like what I'd expect. This is a track car, it's designed for the track, it's what you want at the track (if your driving skills are just insanely good). I actually don't know why more manufacturers don't create dedicated track toys for the purpose of going to the track and having a blast... while creating road toys that are specifically NOT intended for the track.

I think if more manufacturers created track-only vehicles it would bring about a grey area of when you can use them, in the UK (and i'd guess Europe too) when it comes to track days. Unless things have changed, track days are for road registered vehicles only. Tracks open for race car lapping are classed as test days, and i'd imagine stipulate full race car safety equipment, cages, harnesses, in-date race seats etc.

You wouldn't want to drive your FXX or P1 GTR or similar on an average track day, you'd be so much faster then a majority of cars, it would be frustrating at best and dangerous at worst. You'd also probably be unhappy rolling up in your £2m track-biased hypercar only to get in the way of well driven older LMP2's, F3000's, Renault 3.5 World Series or even F3's all of which can be purchased for under £100k.

With most UK circuits hampered by noise regulations, days available to host noise restriction-free events are very limited too.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

What?!?

He's technically correct (the best kind of correct).

 

[Stotty]

I'm not sure that anybody care cares, but when manufacturers yell about their production road car's lap time of such and such a track, it's reasonable to expect that it's actually a production road car and not a one-off prototype mule with slicks and a roll cage.

This, 100%

"... probably is a race track". Sorry @Famine, but the world knows that the Nürburgring it's a race track. We don't need discuss this.

It's only a race track when it's being raced on (Nurb 24h race, for example)... at other times it's as @Famine says, a public toll road.

You can see tour buses going round FFS.

You wouldn't want to drive your FXX or P1 GTR or similar on an average track day, you'd be so much faster then a majority of cars, it would be frustrating at best and dangerous at worst. You'd also probably be unhappy rolling up in your £2m track-biased hypercar only to get in the way of well driven older LMP2's, F3000's, Renault 3.5 World Series or even F3's all of which can be purchased for under £100k.

A BTCC car runs faster laps than a P1. Pretty much any single seater above a FF would kill a P1 on lap times.

 

[Danoff]

I think if more manufacturers created track-only vehicles it would bring about a grey area of when you can use them, in the UK (and i'd guess Europe too) when it comes to track days. Unless things have changed, track days are for road registered vehicles only. Tracks open for race car lapping are classed as test days, and i'd imagine stipulate full race car safety equipment, cages, harnesses, in-date race seats etc.

You wouldn't want to drive your FXX or P1 GTR or similar on an average track day, you'd be so much faster then a majority of cars, it would be frustrating at best and dangerous at worst. You'd also probably be unhappy rolling up in your £2m track-biased hypercar only to get in the way of well driven older LMP2's, F3000's, Renault 3.5 World Series or even F3's all of which can be purchased for under £100k.

With most UK circuits hampered by noise regulations, days available to host noise restriction-free events are very limited too.

Interesting. At least I'm learning.

In the US that is not a requirement (to the best of my knowledge). Cars that are illegal on the road here are welcomed at the track. Lots of modifications are made to cars to make them better for the track here that render them illegal on the roads - the biggest thing being emissions, probably tires next. License plates are only required for use on public roads. I have little experience with drag racing here, but I know of people that bypass their emissions for their drag cars.

So in the UK, for a typical track day, does your car have to be in the shape that it was when it was registered, or can you run slicks?

 

[Famine]

Ironically, I think that the FXX can't be driven on the Nordschleife outside of a manufacturer event as it's not road legal in Germany and breaks the noise limits...

The P1LM probably does too, so I suspect this time was set on a manufacturer test day. However, I note that the press release didn't come from McLaren but Lanzante...

"... probably is a race track". Sorry @Famine, but the world knows that the Nürburgring it's a race track. We don't need discuss this.

While it's good of you to speak for the planet, what 'the world knows' is of no consequence.

The Nordschleife is a privately-owned public road. It's only a racing track during official organised racing events - like Monaco or Snaefell. It can be rented for use as a test track. The rest of the time it's just a toll road, with occasional speed limits and German road traffic laws.

 

[Stotty]

So in the UK, for a typical track day, does your car have to be in the shape that it was when it was registered, or can you run slicks?

Depends on the track day... some are road registered cars only, some will allow track cars.

 

[Danoff]

probably be unhappy rolling up in your £2m track-biased hypercar only to get in the way of well driven older LMP2's, F3000's, Renault 3.5 World Series or even F3's all of which can be purchased for under £100k.

This, 100%
A BTCC car runs faster laps than a P1. Pretty much any single seater above a FF would kill a P1 on lap times.

This is making my point for me. If you want a car that will post lightning fast lap times, you're not buying the P1. Or if you are, you're buying it and immediately modifying it for the track. Or you get the GTR.

 

[Stotty]

This is making my point for me. If you want a car that will post lightning fast lap times, you're not buying the P1. Or if you are, you're buying it and immediately modifying it for the track.

Exactly. As @TheCracker, says, if you want to go fast go buy a Radical, or an old FPA single seater... they'll cost a fraction of the price of a P1 but would be multiples of whole seconds faster on lap times.

Even better, the money you save would fund a good few years of proper racing!!

 

[Danoff]

Exactly. As @TheCracker, says, if you want to go fast go buy a Radical, or an old FPA single seater... they'll cost a fraction of the price of a P1 but would be multiples of whole seconds faster on lap times.

Even better, the money you save would fund a good few years of proper racing!!

Agreed. So why are we hearing about road-legal lap time "records" at the 'ring again?

If it's difficult to track your car in any other configuration in many countries, I'm starting to see the point. Is that really it?

 

[dimassa19]

Here in São Paulo we put the Lollapalooza Festival inside the Interlagos (you can walk in the tarmac)... And the track still a race track...

 

[Famine]

Here in São Paulo we put the Lollapalooza Festival inside the Interlagos (you can walk in the tarmac)... And the track still a race track...

Okay. Not relevant to anything, but okay.

When it's not in use as a race track, can you use Interlagos on your commute home, like you can with the Nordschleife, La Sarthe, Monaco, Snaefell or any of the F1 street circuits? Can you hop onto it at a convenient entry point and leave for your village without having to do a full lap?

The Nurburgring GP circuit is a permanent race track facility. The Nordschleife is not.

 

[dimassa19]

Okay. Not relevant to anything, but okay.

When it's not in use as a race track, can you use Interlagos on your commute home, like you can with the Nordschleife, La Sarthe, Monaco, Snaefell or any of the F1 street circuits? Can you hop onto it at a convenient entry point and leave for your village without having to do a full lap?

The Nurburgring GP circuit is a permanent race track facility. The Nordschleife is not.

How sad... My favorite race track is not a race track...

 

[RomKnight]

There's no Santa either @dimassa19

(brincadeirinha - como se diz no Brazil )

Seriously though, this record, IMO, is pure BS for the obvious reasons already mention and the ability to do fast laps at Nords is getting silly and as mentioned, losing credibility when such thing is allowed.

But it's only my opinion and we all know about opinions

 

[Lambob]

OT to the mildest degree, but make sure to watch this documentary on Bruce McLaren & family

The story of Bruce McLaren, the New Zealander who founded the McLaren Motor Racing team. A man who showed the world that a man of humble beginnings could take on the elite of motor racing and win.

I thoroughly enjoyed this, you may find it online on quicktime or other, a must see.

 

[crooky369]

Also what's with starting the timing at the first corner and ending it just after the last? Cut like 3-4 seconds off a whole lap right there.

Would love there to be a governing body for laps at the Nordschleife where they demand to know what tyres are being run, any changes made to the car etc. Also clearly defined categories so you could see what was the fastest electric, trackcar (Radical, Westfield ), production car etc.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:

McLaren P1 LM Sets Another New Nürburgring Lap Record
The barely street-legal speed demon is the new King of the 'Ring. How long before this latest record gets beaten?

This article was published by Calvin Kirstein (@calvins48) on June 1st, 2017 in the Automotive News category.

This article makes me really happy

 

[Jel44]

Also what's with starting the timing at the first corner and ending it just after the last? Cut like 3-4 seconds off a whole lap right there.

Would love there to be a governing body for laps at the Nordschleife where they demand to know what tyres are being run, any changes made to the car etc. Also clearly defined categories so you could see what was the fastest electric, trackcar (Radical, Westfield ), production car etc.

That's my problem with this lap run. Why are the starting and ending lines for the track different??

 

[sesselpupser]

Edit: Never mind!

 

[-Fred-]

What's scary is that we're now at a level where production based machines, road legal or not, are within 20 seconds of Stefan Bellof's lap record that was done with a full-on racecar.

 

[Polsixe]

I have no idea why anyone cares whether these cars are "road legal". It's a race track... you know... where you use race/track cars. Nobody is spending $1M just so they can drive the car home from the track. A pickup truck/trailer combo is not very expensive by comparison.

Things you want at the track:
- Helmet
- Roll cage
- No airbags
- Camber
- Expensive tires
- Stiff suspension
- 5 point harness

Things you want on the way home:
- No helmet
- No roll cage
- Airbags
- Seat belt
- less camber
- softer suspension
- air conditioning
- stereo
- comfort
- quiet
- cost effective tires

So what is the point of making sure that your track car can drive home? I know I know, it's a yardstick by which to measure these cars against each other... again, what is the point of that yardstick? It's not a good measurement.

Don't forget working headlights, taillights, brake lights, turn signals, muffler, emission controls.

 

[F Inferno]

I find it hard to believe anybody is buying these kind of cars for track days. I see the lap times as more for added value for owners who want the cars for showboating, trump cards if you will.

 

[Stotty]

I find it hard to believe anybody is buying these kind of cars for track days. I see the lap times as more for added value for owners who want the cars for showboating, trump cards if you will.

This.

If they aren't locked in climate controlled garages, they will mostly be seen crawling round Dubai/London/Moscow city centers.

 

[TheCracker]

What's scary is that we're now at a level where production based machines, road legal or not, are within 20 seconds of Stefan Bellof's lap record that was done with a full-on racecar.

Well, it was 34 years ago. His qualifying lap was also 15 seconds faster than his official lap record which was done in the race.

 

[Danoff]

I find it hard to believe anybody is buying these kind of cars for track days. I see the lap times as more for added value for owners who want the cars for showboating, trump cards if you will.

Agreed... it's to market the car to people who want the lap time as a bragging point (for no apparent reason).

 

[MSZ]

That's my problem with this lap run. Why are the starting and ending lines for the track different??

All manufacturers have been doing that for years now. They claimed the early end line made the final push softer/slower to reduce accidents.

 

[Jel44]

All manufacturers have been doing that for years now. They claimed the early end line made the final push softer/slower to reduce accidents.

Even though the Zonda R isn't road legal, it actually did the full lap. It could probably go sub 40 (maybe or close) if someone really pushed it, if the new lines were used.

 

[Polsixe]

Fastest lap on camera :
Derek Bell camera car lap 1983 Posche 956 (driving at 0.925 of Bellof rate)

Hatzenbach, 0:36, 1 sec slower than P1 LM
Yokohama Sign, 1:16, 1 sec slower
Km 7, 1:44, 2 secs slower, P1 gained 1
Ex-Muhle, 2:44, 1 sec slower, P1 lost 1
Karoussel, 3:55, 1 sec slower
Brunnchen, 4:50, even, P1 lost 1
Bilstein sign, 6:19, 4 secs faster, P1 lost 3. Bell says 956s do 195 mph down the straight
End, 6:41, 2 secs faster and 236 metres longer.

So Bell gave it some beans on the last sector but otherwise the P1 LM lap was pretty close to the 956 driven at 9/10ths camera cruise.