Leaf Thread: 2016 Model Adds Bigger Battery, 107 Mile Range

[Omnis]

Thing is, even the Tesla (and Fisker) are smugmobiles to some extent. Sure, looks great. Drives like a Camry. (or a Miata, in the Roadster's sense.)

Better than driving like poop and looking the part too.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Unfortunately I'm struggling to like this car, I really do! But my Jetta TDI Sportwagen is waiting for me.

 

[Eric Demory]

Who would even want an electric car anyway. If your planning to travel somewhere north that will take about 3 hours to get there. Well, I don't think the battery lasts that long on one full charge. Then you will need to charge it up that may takes a couple of hours just to charge completely. Would probably need at least 2 charges on a 3 hour trip. 3 hours in a gasoline powered vehicle, would equal about at least 7 hours to reach that destination in a battery operated "going green" vehicles.
I... think I'll go with gasoline.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> I think EV are not bad, its just the way these companies execute them is just, ugh! So far my fave EV's are these three:

Commuter Cars Tango

GM EV1

Aptera 2e

 

[YSSMAN]

I wouldn't say that the car is entirely unappealing, but the thing is, we're not the market that Nissan is catering to with this car. They want to nab the people who are buying Corollas and Sentras for their practicality and efficiency, drivers who just generally don't give a damn about most things other than that it gets them from A --> B. In that sense I assume that Nissan has succeeded here. But, I think they would have been far more successful jamming this powertrain underneath an Altima... Or hell, even a Cube.

But, these things could sell like hotcakes. I wouldn't buy one. My EV car cash still goes to GM for the Volt, but you knew that.

 

[McLaren]

Thing is, even the Tesla (and Fisker) are smugmobiles to some extent. Sure, looks great. Drives like a Camry. (or a Miata, in the Roadster's sense.)

I'm pretty positive the new 4-door Tesla will drive nothing like a Camry. As for the Roadster, drives a lot closer to an Elise than a Miata.

 

[Eric.]

Last I checked, driving like a Miata isn't half bad either?

 

[McLaren]

Last I checked, driving like a Miata isn't half bad either?

From the way Jim worded it, it does.

 

[homeforsummer]

So, I've driven the Leaf​

Nissan UK have taken the prototype and a test car around the UK for the last couple of weeks and now it's off on it's way through Europe.

One of the drivetrain prototypes was available to test drive around a small course that Nissan had laid out, so I had a go. Probably drove it for less than a kilometer in total but it was nice to a) finally drive an EV and b) drive one of the most important EVs coming to market.

Photos first, then impressions. The styling has actually grown on me after seeing it in person:

The concept car:

The test car:

The test car you'll recognise as a Nissan Tiida. We don't get them in the UK but they're on sale in most LHD markets I think. This one has had the floorpan extended and Leaf EV running gear installed. As you can see, the transmission tunnel is quite high too, presumably for electronic gubbins.

What did I think? I enjoyed it a lot. Response is fantastic and incredibly smooth - exactly as you'd expect with 200lb ft of torque from zero revs. It's quiet, smooth and nippy. Other than that, there's not a lot to say - it's just like driving a normal car, only with a completely different powertrain. Which is really exactly how it should be. People will never buy EVs if they feel weird to drive, so essentially the Leaf drives like any other car, just much, much smoother and quieter.

Further impressions can be found in my blog, here: http://tarmac-automotive.blogspot.com/

I'll put a video up later as soon as I've uploaded it. Nissan record every drive and then give you it straight away on a cool little USB stick:

Thoughts? Questions?

 

[Jondot]

I do hope they don't use the Tiida's interior as too much of a starting point (incidentally if you want to drive one of those, hop over to the Republic of Ireland).

But no, pretty cool 👍 Had they left the back seats and boot relatively intact? I'm just wondering where they've stuffed all those batteries (besides between the front seats).

 

[homeforsummer]

In the Tiida test car all the batteries were below the floor, they'd lengthened the body a little to take them. Still had a full boot and full rear seats. As did the Leaf concept car.

As promised, a video of me driving the car. I honestly don't sound that nasal normally. Honestly...

​

As for all the arm-twirling on the steering wheel, I was caught slightly off-guard on the first lap. I'm used to a much quicker steering rack in my Mazda and didn't expect to have to turn that much! Was trying very hard to avoid the cones they'd laid out and I'd signed a form to promise I wouldn't hit them...

 

[kikie]

As for the Roadster, drives a lot closer to an Elise than a Miata.

It does actually. I drove an Elise and I had the oppurtunity to test drive - as a passenger - the Tesla Roadster and both cars feel very, very similar. Except that the Roadster is very quiet and a lot faster.

I know for a fact that EV's are very nice cars to drive, eventhough you don't hear the sound of a nice V6 (in my case, daily car).

 

[homeforsummer]

I know for a fact that EV's are very nice cars to drive, eventhough you don't hear the sound of a nice V6 (in my case, daily car).

I agree, though I'm quite sure I could sacrifice engine noise in a commute as long as I had another (petrol-powered) car to use as a weekend toy.

Been thinking about my drive in the Leaf quite a bit though. I've come away very impressed. Being a product of a big manufacturer it doesn't feel like a glorified golf cart, it feels like a proper car that just happens to be powered by a different method. I'm keen to try some of the other production EVs (Smart ED, Mitsubishi i-MiEV) to see if they leave me as impressed.

 

[kikie]

I'm keen to try some of the other production EVs (Smart ED, Mitsubishi i-MiEV) to see if they leave me as impressed.

I have no doubt they will. As long as these cars perform as good as a car with a combustion engine.

 

[niky]

Most production EVs won't perform as well as the best gasoline-powered cars, but for 99% of our daily needs, they're enough.

It's not the same, but a while back we tested the Toyota Prius. This new generation car has a more powerful traction motor, and can actually get up to 30 mph without gasoline.

http://bigbigcar.com/boards/default.aspx?g=posts&t=3387

Over 30 mph, the gasoline motor kicks in to assist, and at 70 mph, it's fairly howling (a quiet sort of howl, though... but it's howling).

I was pretty interested when I looked up the plug-in version and found out that it could hit 50 mph on the traction motor alone. That, I like. And it's nice. It's nice to have a car that reduces driving to its basic element. Point it, squeeze the trigger, and it goes. Quietly. No fuss, no fiddling with powerbands and gear ratios, just plain old-fashioned motoring, with a steady trickle of torque shoving you in the small of the back.

If you're yearning for the good old days... well, come on... back in the era of cheap gas, you didn't need five shifts to hit 60 mph... (from first to sixth)... so losing that tradition isn't all that bad. And the sound?

Let's be honest here. Most cars on the road today sound like crap. V6s are supposed to sound awesome, but many of them sound like hoovers. I4s? Dull drones. The cheaper ones are gnashy and growly, while a scant few actually have dulcet tones (the Mini, current Mazdas (the previous Miata droned... the new one sounds great (triple parenthesis!)))... but by and large, new cars aren't very exciting to listen to. Turbos make everything worse. New cars are so quiet and refined that manufacturers actually have to... manufacture... a fake-ish exhaust note to give them some character.

When we drove the Prius against the Civic, one thing that really stood out that we liked about the Civic was not the fact that it had a nice engine note (it's okay, but falls into the "buzz'" category) but the fact that it's quieter at high speeds.

An electric car would be quieter still. Which I like. The one thing I don't is the weight... which already, on cars like the Prius, negatively impacts the driving experience. You can design around it so it's less noticeable, but it's always there.

Envy on the TD, hfs. I'm hoping one of those will come here soon... but with Nissan Ph in the mess it's in, it's doubtful.

How bad is it?

They just released the new Sentra here. The Renault-based Sentra. We're finally getting it four years after everyone else.

 

[kikie]

During the winter, I have seen a few Pruis'es, latest model, and the were exhaust fumes coming out of the tail pipe, at very low speeds and even at a stand still. How is this possible if the gasoline engine isn't suppose to run below a certain speed.

Like I said, it was winter and I could clearly see the exhaust fumes.

 

[Strittan]

What a horrible looking car, and interior.

 

[Jondot]

During the winter, I have seen a few Pruis'es, latest model, and the were exhaust fumes coming out of the tail pipe, at very low speeds and even at a stand still. How is this possible if the gasoline engine isn't suppose to run below a certain speed.

Like I said, it was winter and I could clearly see the exhaust fumes.

I suppose if the driver had been driving like a maniac, he could feasibly run the battery down enough that the car deems it a bad idea to try and run off electricity alone. Doesn't sound right to me, though. Maybe sticking the heater and heated front/rear screens on is intensive enough that it needs the engine.

 

[kikie]

It were several Prius'ses and I can remember seeing an elderly male behind the wheel. I don't see him abusing his Pruis to such an extend that the batteries are completed and the gasoline engine had to keep running all the time.

Maybe it's due to the freezing t°, that the engine had to stay on to protect the batteries?

 

[Omnis]

I was pretty interested when I looked up the plug-in version and found out that it could hit 50 mph on the traction motor alone. That, I like. And it's nice. It's nice to have a car that reduces driving to its basic element. Point it, squeeze the trigger, and it goes. Quietly. No fuss, no fiddling with powerbands and gear ratios, just plain old-fashioned motoring, with a steady trickle of torque shoving you in the small of the back.

I think Krafcik said the Sonata hybrid does 60mph on electric before it switches to gas. That's pretty awesome. The sweet spot is that 50mph range though, because you almost never go above 50 in city/suburban driving. 45 is the speed limit.

 

[niky]

Yup. And 50 mph can just get you going down the highway without being rear-ended by soccer moms at a closing speed of 100,000,000 mph...

RE: winter driving: the gas engine will turn on to run the heater, I suppose. And cold temperatures are notorious for causing battery inefficiencies.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think Krafcik said the Sonata hybrid does 60mph on electric before it switches to gas. That's pretty awesome. The sweet spot is that 50mph range though, because you almost never go above 50 in city/suburban driving. 45 is the speed limit.

The trick is getting it so the gas motor doesn't kick on so easily. You can take the Fusion Hybrid up to 42 MPH on electric powah only, but you've really gotta watch that throttle.

 

[kikie]

http://www.renault-ze.co.uk/uk/blog/


Nissan-Renault are working on a quickdrop battery-change -facility. Batteries can be changed within 3 - 4 min. http://www.renault-ze.com/benl/#/benl/electric-car-mechanism/charging.html

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

As for all the arm-twirling on the steering wheel, I was caught slightly off-guard on the first lap.

Was the steering featherlight?

 

[homeforsummer]

Was the steering featherlight?

Not really. I'm just used to a car with about 2.5 turns lock to lock (if that) and this thing probably had another 3/4 to 1 turn on top of that. It's hard to judge in a very tight course like the one I tried it on but it wasn't a quick rack. I suspect out on the road you'd not notice it as being slow. It's likely no slower a rack than 99% of other cars on the road.

It actually steered nicely. It was accurate and the car felt light on it's feet. The steering itself wasn't "light" exactly, but it didn't have the weight you'd feel in something like a BMW, which tend to have heavier PAS than many other cars.

@ Niky - do you guys have the Tiida over there? Or whatever it's called in other markets (Versa, Latio). If you want to know what the Leaf prototype was like to drive, you can probably just have a go in a Tiida. The only thing you won't get is absolutely seamless torque and near-silence in the drivetrain.

 

[TsLeng]

http://www.renault-ze.co.uk/uk/blog/


Nissan-Renault are working on a quickdrop battery-change -facility. Batteries can be changed within 3 - 4 min. http://www.renault-ze.com/benl/#/benl/electric-car-mechanism/charging.html

In principle sounds good but needs to have basics sorted first such as,

- Standardised battery pack so that the facility is not limited to one make/model only.
- Need a method of ensuring all batteries are in sufficiently good condition.
- Batteries will become a separate part of the car as it will be a component that is separately changing hands.
- Who actually owns the battery? 💡

... I like the idea but I think a quick-charge is way more realistic. I would accept a 5-15min charge if it means my EV can travel 100-150 odd miles per charge on the motorway. Time for a break and stretch. But even this would have some problems of its own. (Imagine the number of plugs needed to meet demand compared to a normal petrol station which is pump and go in roughly 5 mins)

 

[niky]

@ Niky - do you guys have the Tiida over there? Or whatever it's called in other markets (Versa, Latio). If you want to know what the Leaf prototype was like to drive, you can probably just have a go in a Tiida. The only thing you won't get is absolutely seamless torque and near-silence in the drivetrain.

We have the seven-seater version, the Grand Livina, which is based on the same floorpan as the Latio.

-

There's some good news on the battery front... apparently you can get services that rebuild Prius batteries... so when electrics roll out, they will likely be covered, too. I've heard of numbers around $1000, which isn't that bad if you're only spending it every ten years.

The up-front price premium, though, is still a sore point.

 

[kikie]

There are plans of installing strips or rails (something like that) that charge a car's battery while driving. Maybe that's the solution.

I haven't talked about this but I'm a little bit concerned with the electromagnetic radiation produced by electric cars and maybe the charging solution mentioned above.

 

[niky]

EMFs, bah.

But rail charging? Too problematic. Take the immense overhead it costs to maintain an electrified rail system... then multiply that a thousandfold... it'll never work.

 

[Jim Prower]

I'm wondering about the voltages used in these superfast recharging stations. I can see the term "Arcing incident" becoming a problem...