Let's boycott Sony and GTC!!!!

[Race Idiot]

Thanks man

Who says this forum isnt educational

 

[vat_man]

A pleasure

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by vat_man
Okay - alloy wheels are generally lighter than steel wheels. So - there is therefore less rotational inertia (ie. less weight) for the motor to overcome to start rotate the wheel - ie. better acceleration and engine response.

BUT! There is more to that. And it's all bad news, I'm afraid.

It's not just about weight (mass). It's about where that mass is located, too. 'Moment of inertia' (basically) means the the force required to move something, factoring in the distance from the object doing the moving.

Simple example: tape a rock to one end of a yardstick. Pinch the other end, and try to swing the rock in a circle - very tough to do. Now, pinch it in the middle and try - much easier.

Your engine is trying to do the same thing with the wheels, only the axle hub is your fingers, and the wheel is the rock.

The larger the wheel diameter, the larger the moment of inertia that the engine must overcome. More of the wheel's mass is concentrated farther away from the hub, than with a smaller wheel. PLUS, larger wheels are geometrically heavier than smaller wheels, which only makes the situation worse. You're asking the engine to swing a longer yardstick with a heavier rock. To a 500 hp supercar, is it a real difference? No. To an overrated 4.8l Mustang? Probably. To a 1.8l Civic that's also dragging around a body kit and a giant carrot peeler on the trunk? You BET it makes a big dent in the acceleration.

The other factor at play is transmission gearing. The car is engineered to have a specific set of gear ratios at the stock tire diameter (circumference, really). The whole concept of 'Plus One' or 'Plus Two' sizing is based upon KEEPING the original outside circumference. You just have a little more wheel diameter and a little less sidewall height, but the same OVERALL diameter for the combination.

Then some yahoo decides that it looks cool to cram on the largest diameter wheel that will fit under the fender. Almost certainly it will be impossible to maintain the correct overall diameter/circumference once you go up more than about Plus Two inches over the original wheel size.

Having the overall diameter/circumference larger than designed means that the final drive gearing is now taller than originally engineered. In other words, you've shifted the engineering balance AWAY from acceleration and towards higher top speed, just like moving the GT "auto ratio" towards the right of the bar. But for a street car, acceleration comes into play many dozens of times a day, and ultimate top speed is almost NEVER a factor. Now you've decreased the day-to-day performance of the car, with no discernable benefit other than 'looking cool'.

Again, for big-hp cars this may not be a real factor. But the vast majority of people don't drive big-hp cars. And this ALSO makes a bigger difference as the engine output gets smaller.

That being said, there is some handling advantage to careful, moderate upsizing of the wheels. But the keyword is MODERATE. And there is NEVER an acceleration benefit unless the new wheels are a lot lighter than the old ones.

 

[vat_man]

True - I was assuming the actual total tyre size was the same as stock.

 

[Duke]

Even if the total tire/tyre size DOES stay the same as stock, the extra rotational inertia of the larger wheel still is a noticeable factor.

 

[vat_man]

Oh okay - so, because the weight of the actual 'rim' (i.e. the part of the wheel inside the tyre is heavier than the tyre, and located further from the hub, there's an increased need for leverage to get the tyre moving! Wow - hadn't thought of that!

 

[Duke]

The light dawns... way to go, vat_man!

That's the difference between looking fast and being fast! I know which one I'd pick.

 

[vat_man]

Hey - I hadn't heard of that, I had to reason my way through that. The old grey motor don't run quick, but it's pretty reliable!

 

[para22]

Originally posted by neon_duke
Not to mention the concept of the moment of rotational inertia.

Stupid, stupid rat creatures. There is no point in going larger than 16" wheels (rims are for bicycles) on virtually any car. Especially not a production-based car. And once you get much above that, you're just going farther in the wrong direction.

Damn... both my cars came on 18" stock... should i change them to smaller ones ? ... I'll also tell my brother to take the 20s of his alpina B12 (yes before you ask it came on 20" from factory)

 

[Duke]

Factory wheels are factory wheels. The car's suspension tuning and gear ratios have been engineered accordingly.

We're discussing the current trend of adding huge aftermarket wheels - with largest diameter possible being the main goal.

 

[rjensen11]

there'll be hell to pay! Look in the back of the GT3 manual! Shelby has what, 3 cars listed there? AND THEY ONLY USED 1!!!! I really wanted to soup up some cars and have it be like Gone in 60 Seconds in my garage... Oh man, if they don't include more Shelbys, Fords(all of the family, including Jaguar and all of those), and more cars from outside of Japan(they ALREADY HAVE all of the japanise cars there that anybody would care about!)

They also need the used car lots... Those were the shizot, I loved buying 1970's muscle cars like the Dodge Charger and Challengers...

All I want is GT2, but with better graphics that GTe(if that's possible), better physics, and online multiplayer capabilities. Also, I'd love it if I could make my own cars or get more cars in the future.

 

[rjensen11]

BTW, actually BOYCOTTING Sony is the dumbest idea I've ever heard! If you don't give them money, how will they continue to operate so they make greater games and other products?

 

[kyle]

No, lets not. Go to some no-name site and buy an import.

 

[SKILLZ]

Hey Neon-Duke.So you want to try and get personal eh????First of all....how old are you???You sound like one of those 45yr old guys who tries to hang out with their kids.Your married, and drive a Neon.....no wonder your so mad.For some people video games are a way of escaping reality because their reality SUCKS!!!!!!!! And you sound like you fit that description.Oh yeah...your neon against my mustang..........that's cute!!!Also.... the only reason I did'nt put dubs on the ride is because that would have hurt the handling and acceleration a bit(I bet you can't fit 16inchers on your p.o.s neon)To all the rest of you, If I sound cocky or conceited?Hey I apologize....where I'm from we call it confidence.And if neon- duke in his underwear speaks for all of you....I feel for you guys!!!!Hey Neon step away from the video game and go outside and experience life yo'!!!

 

[SKILLZ]

I am all for GTconcept coming to the US.But Damn !!!!Can they change the game a bit.We have basically been playing the same game since gt1!!Let's get some real cars Sony.I mean for the 3 series to be the only bimmer on the game is sad.Wher are the M3 and M5's.Can we get some AMG and brabus Benzes?More corvette and mustang(saleen) models.Better rims to choose from...Damn just change the game man!!!!GT2 was a better game....Granted it had weaker graphics, but it was a better game!!Earn those hundreds of millions Sony that's all I ask!!Keep the consumers happy!!!!!!

 

[SKILLZ]

For every one on my nutz(Neon duke/hondakid86etc.)....please get off!!!!Your too heavy...granted my nutz are big but damn give a brotha a break!!!!Also Hondakid86,I know alot of people who stay in the pj's who have computers,ya friggen idiot!!And yes I do stay in the suburbs and my family does live in comfort.So the **** what!!!!!I'll beat your hoe ass,boy!!!!Believe that!!!!!You must be one of those guys who tried to be down with us in school and where told to back the **** up!!!!We are supposed to be talking about video games, but if everyone wants to keep riding my nutz...... we can talk ****!!!!And for those that don't know the WORLD is a ghetto,ain't nobody safe out here!!!Definition of a real N.I.G.G.A Never Ignorant and Getting Goals Acomplished!!!Get off my nutz!!!!!!

 

[Duke]

Boy, did you just play RIGHT into my hands. Absolutely the perfect reaction that I expected. I enjoy this kind of thing immensely so don't flatter yourself that you made me mad.

You've got my age wrong by a few years. And yeah, I hang out with my kids, but since they are both under 10, I'm legally required to. In fact, I want to hang out with them, since I'm perfectly happy with my family life. My reality doesn't suck.

In your case, I guess some people have to brag annoyingly on the internet because their reality sucks, huh? Where you come from, they apparently need a new dictionary, because confidence has nothing to do with bragging about inches. It has to do with DOING something, not just talking about it.

I'll run my Neon against your POS Rustang any time, especially if its a lousy 4.6 pushing those 19s, and ESPECIALLY if it's an automatic. I may lose, but I've got the confidence to try it. I bet you spent more on your "rims" and tires than I spent buying my whole car. I flew to Atlanta to get this particular one, so don't bother saying it's all I could afford.

Actually, some idiots have put 18s under their Neons, but for the reasons I described at length above, I think it is UNBELIEVABLY STUPID to put wheels that oversized on a car, just so you can brag about inch size. (Gotta brag about the size of something, eh?) I don't give a crap about looks, if it hurts performance. There is a reason that most competitve autocrossers and drag racers often go DOWN a size on their wheels, and looking cool has nothing to do with it. But of course, I don't expect you to understand that kind of reason.

You think I should go experience life, huh? OK, here goes:

Ever driven a Ferrari or a Lamborghini more than 140 mph in real life? I have.
Ever put all 5 shots through the X-ring at 50 yards in real life? I have.
Ever righted a capsized sailboat in a 60-mph storm in real life? I have.
Ever helped deliver a baby in real life? I have.
Ever waterskied at 60 mph in real life? I have.
Ever piloted an airplane in real life? I have.
Ever played a musical instrument in real life? I have.
Ever gotten seriously airborne on a motorcycle in real life? I have.
Ever had responsibility for something worth more than $5 million in real life? I have.
Ever had responsibility for someone else's life in reality? I do.

I don't usually mention this kind of irrelevant stuff because confidence tells me I don't need to brag about it. But I can keep going like this all day, son. I haven't even started talking about going to college or making love to a woman or campaigning for an independent political party or discussing philosophical theory. I'm willing to bet you've never done any of those things, either. Note that I said "making love to" a woman, not "****ing".

You sure you want to keep this up? Bring it on.

 

[rjensen11]

Being able to play a musical instrument isn't really a thing to brag about. I mean, I don't want to brag, so if it sounds like that just tell me. It's not too hard to play a musical instrument. In fact, in the school district where I go to, you're required to try out at least 3 different instruments, I think. Anyway, it's been a long time, but I've had the experience of Piano, Guitar, Trumpet, and Trombone. So, really, it's nothing to brag about. However, capsizing a boat in a squall, now THAT"S something to brag about! Good job, man!

 

[Duke]

Umm, that was my point. :smilewink I tried to come up with the widest possible variety of "experiences" that I didn't think he could match...

FWIW, I suck at the guitar and the piano and the drums. But I've tried them all!

 

[SKILLZ]

Hey Neon-duke.......are you retarded?Seriously yo'....you sound like your on some kind of medication!!!Stop lying,keep it real,and PLEASE for your own sake, don't forget to take your pills!!!!

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by SKILLZ
Seriously yo'... Stop lying,keep it real,and PLEASE for your own sake, don't forget to take your pills!!!!

Yo', Skillz, I really have done all those things. Believe me or don't, it's all the same to me, homie. At least I've got something to keep real, you cheap-a$$ wannabe.
:smilewink

 

[SKILLZ]

More power to you!!!Heh...whatever....whatever....do you!!!

 

[SKILLZ]

If the next GT game is as real as we all hope(more american and luxury sport cars,adjustable wheel sizes,chrome wheels,racing modifications,and maybe even a pratice race through traffic/No damage)I take everything bad I said about Sony and Polyphony Dig. back!!If not...hey **** um.....Test Drive on PS2 seems to be headed in the right diretion!!!Please Sony amaze US!!!

 

[risingson77]

Originally posted by HondaKid86
"You're Out"? "Keep it real"? "Skillz"? "Smoke a blunt"?

I've had it with you poseur ghetto children. Listen, just because you put 25 inch wheels on your Mustang and talk in ebonics doesn't mean you're ghetto. Dude, you have a COMPUTER, you have INTERNET ACCESS... you probably live in some suburban neighbourhood... I can see it now: brick house, a minivan, and parents that work for Lockheed Martin.

Your banter is racist, elitist, embarassingly funny, and altogether sad... but believe you me, YOU AIN'T GHETTO.

Keep it real, ya moron...

Signed, Stamped, and


OWNED!

 

[Race Idiot]

You seem to have a very conflicting personality

I'll beat your hoe ass,boy!!!!

I thought Hoe`s were women

You must be one of those guys who tried to be down with us in school

Down where?

everyone wants to keep riding my nutz......

How can you ride nuts I mean nuts are quite small

granted my nutz are big

Are they genetically modified Nuts?

Never Ignorant

But you seem ignorant enough I mean you cant even spell brother

brotha

Brother brotha kinda sounds like a brothel

Your just conforming to be popular by beating hoe ass boys with your big geneticaly modified nuts down somewhere. Oh and nuts is spelt with an s not a z

Nuts = Correct
Nutz = Incorrect

 

[Race Idiot]

Awwwwwwwwww he went offline

 

[risingson77]

Dammit...he was an entertaining little troll, too.

I still couldn't read any one of his posts completely...makes my head hurt, y'know?

 

[Race Idiot]

People who act like that are just very dull people because they have no real personality, they just adopt their personality from some other source(i.e Rap Music). Not anything against hip hop peeps I mean I have a good friend who is White Lives in the Suburbs and Listens to allot of rap music he even wears all the hip hop clothes but unlike SKILLZ he has a personality and doesnt feel the need to say Keep it real, Smoke a Blunt etc. He also has some sort of grasp on the world and knows he doesnt think the world is a ghetto. Well thats just my opinion

 

[risingson77]

I'm guessing he hasn't even hit puberty yet...

 

[Duke]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one having fun with Our Little Friend, here. He likes to snipe; he just sucks at it...