Levels should be put back to License tests

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

First off I'd like to say if this has been done to any degree please move it, but I did search and go through several pages and didn't see an exclusive thread to this. The reason I think this has merit to be talked separate from others for several reasons, mainly each iteration of GT from 1-4 were done with License as that main credential of a qualified driver in GT and was quite realistic but also gave a feeling of accomplishment and deserving to drive higher profile vehicles.

Another issue is that the replacement to license test, which is now a mock system of other games that make progressing static and don't really show if one is deserving to drive with a group. Yet leveling also is directly linked to what cars one can drive, it would be much easier to put them under licenses groups. One easily has to do certain events to bring their level up quickly and a more strict licenses test like those seen in 3 and 4 would be quite helpful when selecting drivers for series.

The only issue I can foresee is possibly an elitist attitude toward those who don't have license qualified to race in certain online groups. The other issue I see is that the game may lose some fun if one needed it to unlock certain cars. Anyways I leave it to you guys to expand on this, I feel GT had a unique system with the license tests that made it closer to the real world life it was trying to emulate.

 

[KinLM]

First off I'd like to say if this has been done to any degree please move it, but I did search and go through several pages and didn't see an exclusive thread to this. The reason I think this has merit to be talked separate from others is due to several reasons. For each iteration of GT from 1-4 we had License as that main credential of a qualified driver in GT and was quite realistic but also gave a feeling of accomplishment and deserving to drive higher profile vehicles.

Another issue is that the replacement to license test was a mock system of other games that make the static and don't real show if one is deserving to drive that group. Yet level also is directly linked to what cars one can drive, it would be much easier to put them under licenses groups. One easily has to do certain events to bring their level up quickly and a more strict licenses test like those seen in 3 and 4 would be quite helpful when selecting drivers for series.

The only issue I can foresee is possibly an elitist attitude toward those who don't have license qualified to race in certain online groups. The other issue I see is that the game may lose some fun if one needed it to unlock certain cars. Anyways I leave it to you guys to expand on this, I feel GT had a unique system with the license tests that made it closer to the real world life it was trying to emulate.

You say you have multiple reasons why this deserves it's own thread. Yet you only give one. I really don't see why this needs it's own thread, we've already talked about it to a great extent in threads like this:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=260298

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=274786

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I also say KinLM that if it needs to be placed somewhere else the mods should do so...

I gave a few reasons let me highlight them

One, it works on a more simple scale that requires you to actually practice and is not about grinding away to get the level. Just like the GT academy events, it makes people critically look at how to drive, thus enhancing their skills to a better extent than what they'd have done without them. Thus taking a hairpin differently or learning how to actually make an apex rather than make a turn any which way.

Also the satisfaction from actually achieving such goals through hard work.

Third the level system doesn't directly correlate anything to help organizers of racing series know which drivers belong in such a group and which don't. Plenty of us have race level 30-40 that are great drivers and others that only do well making laps in a dirty nascar room.

 

[SCER]

I agree to be honest. In GT4, they made me a better ingame driver, whereas on GT5 they're completely pointless and dull.

 

[ZZ-II]

i hate that level system in GT5, so yes please go back to the GT4 system...it was alot better

 

[TokoTurismo]

i hate that level system in GT5, so yes please go back to the GT4 system...it was alot better

So do I, that's one thing I'm hoping PD does.

So yes. Levels should be taken out of GT6 and go back to the GT4 way. 👍

 

[ECGadget]

100% agree with that. Licence tests were fun in GT... GT5 though, they were pointless.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I would agree that a more comprehensive license testing system would be a great addition to the game for many players but as a "veteran" driver I would like the ability to skip certain licenses and attempt to qualify for higher levels without first completing early license tests. That way, if u want to take all the tests do so, if you think you're skilled enough to go for the top license right off the top that's possible too.

 

[omnibusse]

Agree. It's more realistic. To start in certain races, you need the license to do.

 

[KinLM]

I also say KinLM that if it needs to be placed somewhere else the mods should do so...

I gave a few reasons let me highlight them

Go right ahead.

One, it works on a more simple scale that requires you to actually practice and is not about grinding away to get the level. Just like the GT academy events, it makes people critically look at how to drive, thus enhancing their skills to a better extent than what they'd have done without them. Thus taking a hairpin differently or learning how to actually make an apex rather than make a turn any which way.

Please show me where you mentioned any of this in the OP. I don't remember it.

Also the satisfaction from actually achieving such goals through hard work.

Isn't so much a point to take the leveling system out as it is just something you find enjoyable about licenses.

Third

You mean second.

the level system doesn't directly correlate anything to help organizers of racing series know which drivers belong in such a group and which don't. Plenty of us have race level 30-40 that are great drivers and others that only do well making laps in a dirty nascar room.

That's two points, one of which was not mentioned in the first post.

All that aside, I do agree with this last paragraph. License tests are a better way to accurately judge how good a driver is, especially if you could look at how many gold/silver/bronze they have for each license.

The leveling system is terrible and only promotes grinding, not the ability to drive.

The licenses need to be the only thing in the next GT.

 

[Exorcet]

Licenses are something GT5 actually did right, at least in terms of how they impacted the game. They are there if you want to do them, or else ignore them. Everyone wins, it's simply the best option.

from 1-4 we had License as that main credential of a qualified driver in GT and was quite realistic but also gave a feeling of accomplishment and deserving to drive higher profile vehicles.

You don't need to restart your career every 2 years. At this point many people would have done the license tests a million times. Also that latter part is extremely subjective.

Everyone is deserving of every car, license or not.

100% agree with that. Licence tests were fun in GT... GT5 though, they were pointless.

How are they fun in one game, and not in the next? Unless you meant the actual tests themselves.

 

[dr_slump]

Or maybe both?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Go right ahead.


Please show me where you mentioned any of this in the OP. I don't remember it.

Do you not remember it or not see it? There is a great difference here one shows a laziness to actually read the post over again. The other is actually reading it but failing to see or not comprehending it like the writer intended.

Isn't so much a point to take the leveling system out as it is just something you find enjoyable about licenses.


You mean second.

You may not find it a point but if you read the posts before you, others take it as a valid point. Either way it's subjective and is up to the reader.

No I mean third.

Also you seem to be trying to mini mod a member that knows quite well how the forum works. I mean if you really think this should be moved and are irritated that it was made, please inform a mod that can properly move this. Yet I should remind you, do it for every other specialized thread as well such as sounds and physics and visuals, since they are either talked about in the epic thread or epic whining thread.

That's two points, one of which was not mentioned in the first post.

All that aside, I do agree with this last paragraph. License tests are a better way to accurately judge how good a driver is, especially if you could look at how many gold/silver/bronze they have for each license.

The leveling system is terrible and only promotes grinding, not the ability to drive.

The licenses need to be the only thing in the next GT.

Not sure how you can say it wasn't mentioned based on the fact that you say you "can't remember", the post is right there read it again before you say it isn't. Here

Or maybe both?

Could you expand on that, because I think both is okay as well. Yet both need to be functional in the progression of the game. I think leveling should be centered to the online community along with license to qualify and enter a certain group.

Licenses are something GT5 actually did right, at least in terms of how they impacted the game. They are there if you want to do them, or else ignore them. Everyone wins, it's simply the best option.

Leveling does what exactly to strengthen what licenses test already did? Let's clarify here, you can't fully ignore them if you want to complete the game 100%. So they do still hold a miniscule amount of use compared to what they once were. I don't recall license tests being the one thing people wanted to see away with. Also PD obviously feel it is a correct system to judge a driver or GT academy wouldn't have have a new group of test based on the license system archetype.

You don't need to restart your career every 2 years. At this point many people would have done the license tests a million times. Also that latter part is extremely subjective.

Everyone is deserving of every car, license or not.

That's why there is an Arcade mode, and GT should do it properly to where more cars are opened up. Yet I understood and I thought others did as well to why the Arcade was limited. Also GT life setting is well established on being a system, that the more you achieve (wins & licenses and now leveling) the more you can do. This is a game, and I did say emulate real world not mirror exactly. So, though you may not need to restart your career every two years real world, it is a new game with "sorta new features" (reworked would be better to say than new) that help a person get a better driving experience than the time before. In the end it is a game, it wont be realistic when it tries to emulate real world, but doing so for the longevity of the game it does a decent job.

Also I make note of my subjectivity in this...most of the stuff we talk about is based on subjectivity with reason and circumstantial evidence.

How are they fun in one game, and not in the next? Unless you meant the actual tests themselves.

Simple one game or four in this case, actually make them a necessary tool of progression and have a more difficulty to them. While this game seems to have just made a more lax system, knowing that it wouldn't matter and only placed it there to have something to help people if they wanted.

 

[FuelAirSpark]

GT5 Prologue had a system that ranked you to allow access to certain cars and levels of online racing. I liked moving up and gaining more access. It was very satisfying. So yes, I would like to see a license test with teeth in it.

 

[steve30x]

The Licence tests should be the way that they were from GT1 to GT4. The licence tests were kind of pointless in GT5

 

[dr_slump]

Could you expand on that, because I think both is okay as well. Yet both need to be functional in the progression of the game. I think leveling should be centered to the online community along with license to qualify and enter a certain group.

The licenses such as nb, na, ib, ia, s should be obtained after finishing certain individual license tests. As in previous GT titles the tests should be easy at the beginning and then get harder and harder, at the end more difficult than in any previous GT game.
Licenses could be used as admission cards for a-spec career stages, as example beginner, semi-pro, pro, etc. Although in this case I would strongly recommend a coexisting flat events structure, as it was the case with manufacturer races in GT4 to boost your level (explanation later in this post). Additionally if you prove yourself being a very talented driver in the licenses, you should get "vip" access to level based cars or similar.
On the other side, especially for the one who don't want or can't finish the license test, they need to keep the level system.

I'd recommend to massively increase the maximum level count to about 100 or even more. The basic idea is to give those group of people the chance to achieve the same progress in the career mode as the one who can master the licenses. Solved by giving them acces to all events nonetheless of their driving license if their rank is high enough.
Although I'd strongly appreciate it if a 100% progress will no longer be that easy, achieved by a proportionally increasing difficulty in higher a-spec career stages.

Basically both ways should sooner or later offer you the same access to game elements. Preferably and in connection with my personal recommendation, the skill way (license) should be faster than the "addicts" (no offense - level) way.


Additionally I see the level system more as a sort of prestige thing online and the driving license as indicator for skill. For the latter the license tests would have to be immensely more difficult. Hitting the maximum level shouldn't be the normal case. I imagine a system where only the first, let's say 50 levels are game relevant, while the rest is pure prestige. And before anybody starts to rant, the prestige rank idea proved to be very successful in recent blockbuster games.

 

[KinLM]

Do you not remember it or not see it? There is a great difference here one shows a laziness to actually read the post over again. The other is actually reading it but failing to see or not comprehending it like the writer intended.

You may not find it a point but if you read the posts before you, others take it as a valid point. Either way it's subjective and is up to the reader.

No I mean third.

Also you seem to be trying to mini mod a member that knows quite well how the forum works. I mean if you really think this should be moved and are irritated that it was made, please inform a mod that can properly move this. Yet I should remind you, do it for every other specialized thread as well such as sounds and physics and visuals, since they are either talked about in the epic thread or epic whining thread.

Not sure how you can say it wasn't mentioned based on the fact that you say you "can't remember", the post is right there read it again before you say it isn't. Here

Could you expand on that, because I think both is okay as well. Yet both need to be functional in the progression of the game. I think leveling should be centered to the online community along with license to qualify and enter a certain group.

Leveling does what exactly to strengthen what licenses test already did? Let's clarify here, you can't fully ignore them if you want to complete the game 100%. So they do still hold a miniscule amount of use compared to what they once were. I don't recall license tests being the one thing people wanted to see away with. Also PD obviously feel it is a correct system to judge a driver or GT academy wouldn't have have a new group of test based on the license system archetype.

That's why there is an Arcade mode, and GT should do it properly to where more cars are opened up. Yet I understood and I thought others did as well to why the Arcade was limited. Also GT life setting is well established on being a system, that the more you achieve (wins & licenses and now leveling) the more you can do. This is a game, and I did say emulate real world not mirror exactly. So, though you may not need to restart your career every two years real world, it is a new game with "sorta new features" (reworked would be better to say than new) that help a person get a better driving experience than the time before. In the end it is a game, it wont be realistic when it tries to emulate real world, but doing so for the longevity of the game it does a decent job.

Also I make note of my subjectivity in this...most of the stuff we talk about is based on subjectivity with reason and circumstantial evidence.

Simple one game or four in this case, actually make them a necessary tool of progression and have a more difficulty to them. While this game seems to have just made a more lax system, knowing that it wouldn't matter and only placed it there to have something to help people if they wanted.

By "I don't remember seeing it" means "I read it and it wasn't there in the opening post."

I have a perfectly fine memory and I read your original post 4 times and never found mention of that point.

And I'm not minimodding.

I just think that this topic would be better discussed in a larger thread. As well as the fact that physics and customization are commonly seen as bigger issues than licenses and therefore that's why they seem to do better as their own threads.

 

[Exorcet]

Leveling does what exactly to strengthen what licenses test already did? Let's clarify here, you can't fully ignore them if you want to complete the game 100%. So they do still hold a miniscule amount of use compared to what they once were. I don't recall license tests being the one thing people wanted to see away with. Also PD obviously feel it is a correct system to judge a driver or GT academy wouldn't have have a new group of test based on the license system archetype.

I have the leveling system with a burning a passion and I wish I could hit it with a rusty crowbar.

Licenses being optional were right, not the level system.

That's why there is an Arcade mode,

I would agree if Arcade Mode was not a joke. In fact, arcade mode done right would be the best thing for GT, people who want to race would go there. People wanting to progress in GT go to a-Spec.

Sadly, everyone must go to A-Spec in the current system, and even when you're done with that, Arcade mode is just bad.

and GT should do it properly to where more cars are opened up. Yet I understood and I thought others did as well to why the Arcade was limited. Also GT life setting is well established on being a system, that the more you achieve (wins & licenses and now leveling) the more you can do. This is a game, and I did say emulate real world not mirror exactly. So, though you may not need to restart your career every two years real world, it is a new game with "sorta new features" (reworked would be better to say than new) that help a person get a better driving experience than the time before. In the end it is a game, it wont be realistic when it tries to emulate real world, but doing so for the longevity of the game it does a decent job.

It adds nothing to longevity unless you only want to play the game until you've done everything once, which is something I don't understand.

Simple one game or four in this case, actually make them a necessary tool of progression and have a more difficulty to them. While this game seems to have just made a more lax system, knowing that it wouldn't matter and only placed it there to have something to help people if they wanted.

Well as I see it, if it's fun you'd want to do it. If not, you wouldn't. If licenses were optional, you could still restrict yourself based on your license. At most you'd just need a "suggested license level" for each race.

 

[Rage Racer]

Agree with the OP.
Licence tests in GT1-4 were making it more interesting and challenging. Also, I don't like these "levels", they make GT's career look like some kind of arcade game.

 

[Coiler]

They should get rid of them, they got so boring after those years...

 

[Paleschi]

By "I don't remember seeing it" means "I read it and it wasn't there in the opening post."

I have a perfectly fine memory and I read your original post 4 times and never found mention of that point.

And I'm not minimodding.

I just think that this topic would be better discussed in a larger thread. As well as the fact that physics and customization are commonly seen as bigger issues than licenses and therefore that's why they seem to do better as their own threads.

Man you have issues! actually interested in what people have to say on this and I have to sift through your whining/unproductive posts to read it
What a doosh

 

[KinLM]

Man you have issues! actually interested in what people have to say on this and I have to sift through your whining/unproductive posts to read it
What a doosh

Pretty ironic since you just did the same thing, AND since I've also discussed this topic in this thread in order to stay on topic.

And to get back OT: Personally I think it isn't so much the leveling system being a problem as it is having both leveling system and licenses in the game. You can't have both, hence why licenses serve next to no purpose in this game.

It would take a good design to incorporate both well. Hopefully PD will sort it all out.

 

[no1pal]

snip: lisence, leveling, etc.

I was a little quick on my voting. I voted for the GT 1-4 option, but this acctually sounds like a brilliant idea Dr_slump 👍

I hate the leveling system with a burning a passion and I wish I could hit it with a rusty crowbar.

Licenses being optional were right, not the level system.

I would agree if Arcade Mode was not a joke. In fact, arcade mode done right would be the best thing for GT, people who want to race would go there. People wanting to progress in GT go to a-Spec.

Sadly, everyone must go to A-Spec in the current system, and even when you're done with that, Arcade mode is just bad.

It adds nothing to longevity unless you only want to play the game until you've done everything once, which is something I don't understand.

Well as I see it, if it's fun you'd want to do it. If not, you wouldn't. If licenses were optional, you could still restrict yourself based on your license. At most you'd just need a "suggested license level" for each race.

I have seen you mentioned this views before, and I do agree, if PD made a good Arcade mode(where all cars and tracks are available)in addition to a good GT mode.

I was pretty disappointed that GT 5 changed to the exp. system and made the lisences unimportant. The GT series to me, is a GT mode with a lisence system.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I voted that they should go back. Yes they can be a bit boring but they are interesting and they can help teach new drivers a few things. I did not like the level system. I think i stopped at level 30 something and was rather annoyed that the only race I had an option to run that I had not already ran was the 9 hour Tsukuba race which is just to boring to bother with. I actually wanted to run the 24hr Nurburgring race but I could not bring myself to grind up to level 40 in order to unlock it.

 

[KinLM]

I voted that they should go back. Yes they can be a bit boring but they are interesting and they can help teach new drivers a few things. I did not like the level system. I think i stopped at level 30 something and was rather annoyed that the only race I had an option to run that I had not already ran was the 9 hour Tsukuba race which is just to boring to bother with. I actually wanted to run the 24hr Nurburgring race but I could not bring myself to grind up to level 40 in order to unlock it.

+1, the amount of grinding necessary to reach each new endurance race is pretty stupid.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

If memory serves you had to have either 25% or 50% of the game completed and the proper lic to enter the endurance races in GT4. That was much better.

 

[Sasek]

Classic style FTW!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The licenses such as nb, na, ib, ia, s should be obtained after finishing certain individual license tests. As in previous GT titles the tests should be easy at the beginning and then get harder and harder, at the end more difficult than in any previous GT game.
Licenses could be used as admission cards for a-spec career stages, as example beginner, semi-pro, pro, etc. Although in this case I would strongly recommend a coexisting flat events structure, as it was the case with manufacturer races in GT4 to boost your level (explanation later in this post). Additionally if you prove yourself being a very talented driver in the licenses, you should get "vip" access to level based cars or similar.
On the other side, especially for the one who don't want or can't finish the license test, they need to keep the level system.

I'd recommend to massively increase the maximum level count to about 100 or even more. The basic idea is to give those group of people the chance to achieve the same progress in the career mode as the one who can master the licenses. Solved by giving them acces to all events nonetheless of their driving license if their rank is high enough.
Although I'd strongly appreciate it if a 100% progress will no longer be that easy, achieved by a proportionally increasing difficulty in higher a-spec career stages.

Basically both ways should sooner or later offer you the same access to game elements. Preferably and in connection with my personal recommendation, the skill way (license) should be faster than the "addicts" (no offense - level) way.


Additionally I see the level system more as a sort of prestige thing online and the driving license as indicator for skill. For the latter the license tests would have to be immensely more difficult. Hitting the maximum level shouldn't be the normal case. I imagine a system where only the first, let's say 50 levels are game relevant, while the rest is pure prestige. And before anybody starts to rant, the prestige rank idea proved to be very successful in recent blockbuster games.

I really like this concept, but instead why not after each license test add in a leveling system? Where one must gain a certain amount of levels before they achieve or are allowed the next driving license test, thus it will promote improved technical driving before doing the actual test. Then when the test comes up everything you learned by leveling up is then used for said test.

Hope that is understandable. Either way I can see problems with both of our systems, but you have a more clear cut one.

 

[Exorcet]

People aren't going to learn because you make them go through hoops. In fact if the license test is for learning, it's best left optional.

What leveling and mandatory licenses do is make people memorize something, pass that something, and then no longer care. If on the other hand, someone wants to learn, they'll probably pay attention.

Mandatory licenses are just a hoop for people who won't benefit a single thing from them or a way for people who like to shove their life goals checklists in everyone else's face.

 

[hardvibes]

Level up and participate in new races with license tests: a reason to play Gran Turismo.
No more no less.

I was really angry when I realized in GT5 you didn't need a license to partitipate in a specific type of races.