- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Because millions of us have done it 5 times already and consider it a massive waste of time. Leave it in for the rookies or those that want it, find a way for more experienced drivers to skip it entirely.
Levels should be put back to License tests
- Thread starter LMSCorvetteGT2
- 82 comments
- 4,305 views
Because millions of us have done it 5 times already and consider it a massive waste of time. Leave it in for the rookies or those that want it, find a way for more experienced drivers to skip it entirely.
- 7,623
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
It does need to be changed. It just needs to be optional.
- 1,447
- Somewhere
- L8erBaby
If the licenses are mandatory in GT6, I will not buy it. I know some of them will be unbeatable for me. I don't buy games, just to get to 20% of the game and say ''Oh. I can't get any further because of some stupid license.'' I may not be able to complete the license, but I most likely will be able to complete the race.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
That's not a reason really, that is subjective...I was looking for a more objective reason as to why it is a supposed "waste of time". Also, I'm sure people's idea of experienced isn't nearly the same, also it doesn't rebuke the fact that the test have and can put people through their paces and can be made difficult if needed as I sad prior.
Also I say in other post that PD need to implement a online system that works with the offline system, that helps people better prepare. Thus having a system that actually works with people having to adjust to other drivers, and having a system that corresponds to how skillful a person is overall.
So, basically you don't want it due to being too difficult, while others complain it has to teach value at all. Not that I'm surprised...but how long have you been playing? And what difficulty do you have? GT5 was quite an easy test, GT4 slightly harder and GT3 being the most difficult for me. Perhaps with age and playing the games so often it has actually helped me pass the tests and imagine them to be easier. However, I feel the GT5 tests were quite easy due to it not being important toward career building.
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- 7,623
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
You got one. It's been done, and people find it boring. People's individual opinion of the tests is subjective, but the fact that many don't care for them is not.
It would still be boring and pointless.
What we have now is fine. We don't need a barrier for online play. People can learn by going online and racing with others.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
That isn't objective, the basic core to most games have been done over and over, yet that is a reason people still play them and own them. Also the poll and the majority of comments wanting them to be more important shows otherwise to that of two people as far as this thread and forum goes. Unless you have some insight that no one else is privy to that proves more than a handful find it boring. I get it you don't find it necessary, you're at the epitome of racing.
Still doesn't make it objective, but good try.
From what racing groups have said and in public settings, people would like to have the ability of choices that allow who can be in there. Thus a rating system and then picking what rating you want in your room to limit the rookie drivers rather than kicking every 5 to 10 minutes. So that leaves us with either a online license system, leveling or some other system. What we have now is debatable and it wouldn't be a barrier, if you can drive correctly and get the rating needed to race with serious people then no worries. What I'm seeing is people want a fully open game with no barriers and thus shouldn't have to work too much or wait to long to have full access to the game. Yet that defeats the point of a game...also if they fix the arcade system, you could drive to your hearts content and no license or lack of money/credits would stop you!
- 7,623
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
How so?
Some of those aren't boring then.
It's not necessary whether I'm Michael Schumacher or a 3 year old who doesn't know which way to hold a steering wheel. The game can be played without licenses. Who is the majority also doesn't matter since if people want to do licenses before things they can. If they don't trust themselves, PD can make it a checkbox in options: licenses mandatory yes/no.
I don't have to try. It is objective. And the licenses, no matter how challenging or integrated still do not need to be in the game, nor is there a reason to make them mandatory, especially when not doing so will improve the experience for others.
Then host the room.
Licenses and driving skills aren't related anyway so this won't do much. It also won't stop intentional ramming and short cutting which is something I think is more of an issue than an honest new player looking for a race.
I'd rather not deal with the rating at all. And if it doesn't even measure driving ability, what is the point? If someone else wants some kind of entry restriction fine, as long as it can be turned off.
The more I hear this, the less it makes sense.
That would be a step in the right direction. A necessary component of the fix would be to connect online to the new Arcade Mode so that GT Mode can be completely avoided.
- 388
- Antwerp, Belgium
I like licence tests. Almost even love them. I understand why some people don't like them so of course they shouldn't be mandatory for everyone. I'd like the option to make them mandotory in my career mode though. I'd even flesh them out even more. Make it so you can only apply for the next licence if you've completed (reach the finish line, position irrelevant) enough race of the previous licence level, with that number increasing from level to level. Start out with something like 5 races from licence B to A, all the way up to 30 from IA to S. That would stop you from getting all licences and overpowered prize cars in one go, but without it really turning into a grind like GT5's experience system.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Objectively, there's no benefit to licensing test for me and millions of others. You don't take a Formula 2 or Formula Atlantic experienced driver and say, "Hey, it's 2014, I know you've been racing for 15 years, but you have to take these driving tests or you can't race".
For me and many others, it comes down to the same thing I believe. There is a definite split in that some people just want the online portion of the game or just want to fool around with cars and tracks to their hearts content and don't want to slog through seemingly endless license tests and A-Spec for tens of hours before being able to build up a decent garage. Others want to go through the traditional GT route. Neither group is wrong or right and there's no reason they can't design the game so that both of us can be satisfied.
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- 1,762
- London
- haroldinho41
Would you prefer the inclusion of a mode in which credits didn't exist?
- 388
- Antwerp, Belgium
Of course he would, and I would agree. You've got the "career" mode with credits but I don't see why you'd force anyone to play that if they want to have decent races online right from the start. I'd say: open up the online mode completely, every car and circuit and all customization options available from the very first moment you fire up the game. If necessary they could even include a separate online career mode. But I just don't see the point of forcing people to go through modes they're not interested in just to be able to use certain cars in other modes. I'm all for an offline and online mode where everything's available from the start, as well as an offline and online mode where you have to work your way up.
Choices, this game needs them badly.
- 1,762
- London
- haroldinho41
I think that a credits-less option would be great for online racing, with the ability to do offline practice, but a credits-less offline career mode would be a bad idea. I think GT5 has to save some of the goodies, rather than just giving them away. It would be a shame if someone was able to buy the game, race in their favourite cars straight away, and subsequently diminish the cars entertainment value.
A realistic credits-less online career, where you move up from go kart and spec mazda-esque cups, up to LMP endurance races, would be great, and a realistic simulation of a racing drivers career. As well as an unlimited online lobby of course.
- 7,623
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
It's a shame that you can't do exactly that. Would you seriously say that doing so would reduce the value of a car, the game, or anything to me?
What would reduce the value is locking the car away so I can't use it either because I can't get it or not enough people have it to race against it.
- 388
- Antwerp, Belgium
You misread my post. I didn't say we should have an offline career mode without credits, rather an offline mode without credits that isn't a career mode, like the arcade mode of previous games. But instead of only giving access to a limited selection of cars (at least it was like that in GT3, never bothered afterwards), just give access to all cars and circuits. Also, the online career mode wouldn't be credits-less.
Four modes:
Offline career (A-Spec, with credits)
Online career (with credits)
Offline "arcade" (everything available)
Online "arcade" (everything available)
Everyone happy. I don't like the word "arcade" though, as that seems to indicate a lack of depth. I'd still want those modes to have customization options and custom championships, online leaderboard, etc.
- 1,762
- London
- haroldinho41
I didn't misread your post, I was just making a general point. I acknowledge that we are completely on the same page.
If license tests are going to be in GT6 they need to be re-invented. Most of them are exactly the same as those in the four previous games, 0-400m braking, FF/FR/MR cornering etc. They're boring and I've already done them five times now.
Turning it into a GT Academy style progression seems the most obvious but the tests still need to be different, somehow.
Turning it into a GT Academy style progression seems the most obvious but the tests still need to be different, somehow.
- 623
- Feldynn
Perhaps the whole concept and perception of "licenses" needs to be changed, replace the license tests like we've had in all the previous games with some sort of GT Academy style "Driving School". A completely optional "tutorial mode" if you like, something to help new players learn the basics of a GT game perhaps with a trophy or some minor prize for completion (like an extra 10k starting credits or something simple).
Then have a career / progression path (which again could be completely optional by means of importing GT5 data, a "Sandbox mode" button or whatever) of sorts, I posted something on another page about that.
Also a section for non-career mode offline races that's not unlike the Seasonal Events we have now, for folks that maybe want to just run some offline races to earn credits / cars but without the need to go through Career mode to build up their garages (but also don't want to do a full import or whatever).
I think the one thing we can all agree on is that having options is a good thing, the option to have a full on career type progression mode, a less in-depth progression mode for those that might at least want some offline racing and the option to simply bypass it all for those that just want to race online
.
In fact now I think about it I halfway remember one of the early 15th Anniversary videos showed a sort of tutorial mode with Lucas Ordinez popping up like Mr Clippy from MS Office with "helpful hints".
Oh look, you're driving a hot lap around Silverstone! Would you like me to:
(A) randomly turn off / on driving aids to assist you,
(B) pop up in different places on the screen to distract you and obscure useful track information,
(C) bugger off and leave you the hell alone?
Then have a career / progression path (which again could be completely optional by means of importing GT5 data, a "Sandbox mode" button or whatever) of sorts, I posted something on another page about that.
Also a section for non-career mode offline races that's not unlike the Seasonal Events we have now, for folks that maybe want to just run some offline races to earn credits / cars but without the need to go through Career mode to build up their garages (but also don't want to do a full import or whatever).
I think the one thing we can all agree on is that having options is a good thing, the option to have a full on career type progression mode, a less in-depth progression mode for those that might at least want some offline racing and the option to simply bypass it all for those that just want to race online
.In fact now I think about it I halfway remember one of the early 15th Anniversary videos showed a sort of tutorial mode with Lucas Ordinez popping up like Mr Clippy from MS Office with "helpful hints".
Oh look, you're driving a hot lap around Silverstone! Would you like me to:
(A) randomly turn off / on driving aids to assist you,
(B) pop up in different places on the screen to distract you and obscure useful track information,
(C) bugger off and leave you the hell alone?
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Then why not petition for a transfer from game to game and console to console, thus you would bypass that and never have to do it. Once again using terms and numbers loosely without logical proof is not objective thought it is subjective, I recommend you guys go look up the terms before trying to use it as an intellectual means of arguing. I respect your opinions as to why, but it becomes difficult to see how it is a fact based reason among "millions". There are only so many millions of units sold so what portion of those millions quantify into the millions you claim don't want this implemented again?
There have been plenty of drivers that were in higher ranks and went to lower ranks. Scott Speed was a F1 driver, so why did he have to start from ARCA and move up to Nascar only to fall back. Romain Grosjean was an F1 driver and then put back to GP2 due to issues as well. So you can be experience but if you frequently have issues, you find yourself back where you started. So just because you have been doing something for a long time, doesn't mean you are as great as you think.
Also if you want unlimited access to all cars and online as Exorcet seems to as well, so petition for a double disc game like GT2. And hope that GT6 has an arcade system with all car enabled in the game and online capability. Yet still be limited, to those who actually want to play the game for the way it was meant to be. Which is a developmental race/driver simulator where you build your way up. It's a game there is a purpose to it just like many other in this category. Either way at the end of the day my opinion is an opinion that I'll debate, but it isn't objective and neither is yours on how the game should be conducted.
From the wording it would seem he and others want a fully open game where they have full access, due to paying for it...
I agree more with exorcet that it should be optional. I just don't agree that certain aspects aren't useful to a certain degree.
Basically what I was saying, and that extends to the more options online that I was also saying which you summed up with...
Um...don't think you understood me, it isn't a matter of who is hosting the room, yet again it is the lack of options that we are allotted to block such people in the first place. More so just making it easier to host a public room that could be set at a certain rating level, and know that the type of driver coming in wont ruin a race due to lack of experience or for fun. Thus a license with a rating system to me seems the best.
So to you it is objective because it is black and white in reasoning as far as you see it. It is a moot tool that doesn't teach (you at least). I'm not asking for it to be mandatory I just said if you read, that I actually agree with it being optional. I just don't agree with it being objective in reason as a useless system. That is a subjective matter no matter what way you look at it.
No, but a rating system that looks for that type of thing would and could be connected to a license system. The same things used to make sure a person doesn't cut a corner or ram a car to move them and pass could be used all the time online wise.
Well I did say have the option to make it a guideline or not. So yet again you wouldn't have to worry, unless a group of your friends want it and you happen to be the odd man out. To be honest if you guys are as good as you claim, a simple rating system that measures your driving over an average amount of laps or completed races shouldn't be a worry.
It is a game, that stretches beyond the point of just online racing so it does defeat the core purpose PD have in building it. If it were just to be online, then PDI would send a patch to major updates every 2-4 years and have a constant game over several consoles, with either DLC or bulk content.
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- 7,623
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
The host already has the ability to choose who is in the room, which is all I was saying. I do agree that more options for the host would be good. I don't think that involving licenses in this would be worthwhile at all. They don't show you driver skill nor intent. I'd rather not have any rating at all, but it's something other people want, and it's something that could allow us to disable, so they should add it. Better than licenses would be something along the lines of iRacing. Just make it so that you can control what counts toward it or not.
What is objective is that there are people who don't like mandatory progression or licenses. That's the only thing I was pushing as objective. This would also be an objective reason to make licenses optional.
Then it seems like there was a misunderstanding.
Then the person just needs to fake it for licenses. Not all the troublemakers online are simply bad drivers.
After 15 years of grinding through credits and license tests, I don't want a single second more of it. I don't care how easy it would be, I don't care if I ended up with the best rating on the entirety of PSN. It's a waste of my time to even look at it because it adds not a thing to the game as far as I'm concerned.
Which is why I can't understand GT Mode or unlocks at all. It's supposed to be fun. Now it's fine if other people want that. They can play however they want. It's when people can't play how they want that I feel there is a problem. There can be reasons for this of course, but since a completely open game is about the easiest thing for a developer to do, it's mind boggling why it hasn't been implemented.
PD doesn't determine the purpose of the game. The end user does. PD can come up with whatever ideas they want, but it's the player that plays it. PD can't tell the player the best way to play the game.
I'm not asking for it to become an online only game anyway. I just want to be able to be able to ignore the parts I don't like. I have no reason to think they will ever go away since they're popular, but I'd like to think at some point the very rational step of making them optional is taken.
All I need is free cars that I can do what I want with online or off.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Hence why I said rating system, I was trying to get at iRacing with out comparing it. If you've seen my other post I dislike going off topic and comparing GT or another game to each other by name. Tends to start rage within those groups and no reason to do so. However, you did it for me so thanks I guess, but that is what I was getting at.
Okay if you say that is objective then fine. However, your point doesn't seem void of personal bias or influence thus not being objective. By saying you don't like it, is a personal reasoning for not wanting it thus making it subjective. The only reason to make it optional is to make both subjective reasons happy. Those who think it is necessary to complete the game and help refresh driving, then those who don't see it as a needed system at all. The reason is to satisfy both, not because one reason out weighs the other as you seem to suggest.
Yeah...
Yeah I made a point of that as well in my last post, there are those who are rookies that can't help being bad. Then there are those who can drive well, but rather cause chaos in a serious racing room, for the "lulz".
So would you say you are irritated or annoyed by having to do it over and over? I mean you say this personally so I just would like to ask to reiterate, even though it is rhetorical at this point.
Once again this is a personal prejudice that not everyone shares. Hence why options help.
Really because nearly 15 years would say otherwise at least 10 years. And with what has been said for GT6, they don't seem to want to change even though the consumer keeps pushing them to. PD does determine the game and nor me or you can kick and scream loud enough to change it. That goes for you anti-license or me wanting more realistic sounds and better function AIs and so on.
I'm not asking for it to become an online only game anyway. I just want to be able to be able to ignore the parts I don't like. I have no reason to think they will ever go away since they're popular, but I'd like to think at some point the very rational step of making them optional is taken.[/QUOTE]
This leads right back to my last point, and the fact that you are hoping for it only shows that PD don't wish to change. I agree that such options should be allowed and don't contest that, but the realism of it actually becoming true doesn't seem likely. Which only adds to why PD control which way the game goes. One only has to look at the fact that people want a more realistic damage model to add to the "Realistic Simulation" tag line, however PD don't want it because they don't believe in seeing cars in such situations. Even though, that is realistic to what they wish to simulate.
Made the point to Penso already, got you covered.
