Limited Slip Differential (LSD) theory

[rono_thomas]

The three settings operate like 3 separate entities depending on what you're doing with the controls

Initial = No throttle/brake
Accel = Throttle
Decel = Braking

I'm struggling with this one with all the testing I do this doesn't quite fit into how I thought the LSD was working for me, after 600+ laps of Bathurst in an SLS in preparation for GTPSCS.

 

[Lionheart2113]

I don't know the whole realistic values vs game values. I will be honest and say that what you guys are discussing is way over my head... But this is what I have in my notes pertaining to the LSD and it suits my driving style on most cars under 600pp. 99% of the time I do put on the Triple Clutch and carbon drive shaft when applicable. As with anything, driver preference on "feel" needs to be considered.

Limited Slip Differential

Initial Torque (Getting out of the corner)
Seems to only effect from apex to exit.

Lower = Encourages Oversteer
Lowering this would allow a lower LSD Accel setting to help stop the nature of the car. (RWD=Oversteer / FWD=Understeer)

Higher = Encourages Understeer
Raising this can allow for a higher LSD Accel setting to try and get more of the cars natural tendency, but you run the risk of uneven tire wear.

Acceleration (Getting out of the corner)
Kicks in as soon as you hit the throttle.
The main goal is to get both drivetrain wheels to turn red/wear evenly at the same time.

If outside tire glows red first/longer... Lower this setting.
If inside tire glows red first/longer... Raise this setting.
If you have difficulty determining which is glowing red first/longest, decrease the drive tires by at least 1 grip level. (Ex. Comfort:Soft down to Comfort:Medium)

Although both tires are putting the power down equally, in a RWD car, it can develop throttle Understeer.

My Hypothesis- The rear wheels are now getting more power to the ground and either "squatting" (lifting up the front end) or the front now lacks the grip to handle the force that the rear wheels are putting out and gets pushed around, possibly both!

Deceleration (Getting into/thru the first part of corner if trail braking)
Takes effect in cases when the throttle is not being used. (Braking/Coasting)

Lower = Loosens the car under braking and coasting.
Doing this allows for a more precise "point & shoot" approach to corner entry. This is beneficial for chicanes as it feels like the car is more responsive to steering inputs.

Higher = Tightens the car when braking and coasting.
More car control on corner entry. Allows to carry more speed into the corner.

My Hypothesis- Too much of this setting will have you pushing into the corner. The security is there, but it kills the speed, especially thru chicanes, and risk increasing the cars natural tendency on acceleration.( RWD=Oversteer / FWD=Understeer)

 

[DolHaus]

I can't explain my theory well enough to make sense and now I'm getting tied up and confused by fighting off multiple angles. I'm probably completely wrong in the way I'm trying to phrase it but my competitive tuning results would suggest that I know how to make it work so I've got nothing to prove.

Good luck with your future efforts gents

 

[LeGeNd-1]

LSD Accel and Decel is obvious, so I'll skip that. Initial seems to be the most vague setting. Now, I don't profess to be a tuning professor, so I'll go with driving feel as that is what really matters when you are out on track.

Low Initial - to me it feels like you need less power/throttle to activate the LSD. So the LSD Accel/Decel settings are more sensitive (exaggerated if you will).
High Initial - you need more power/throttle to activate LSD, giving you a slight buffer before the wheels finally lock according to Accel/Decel settings.

Generally a low power car will need low Initial (otherwise LSD will be useless as it never locks), and a high power car need high Initial (otherwise LSD is too sensitive).

For drifting, I usually set it to 5/60/5 as you want the wheels to lock as easy as possible under power, while still making it easy to initiate a drift. 60/60/60 is "true" full lock, but for me it's too hard to get the car sideways.

For rally I use front 5/5/5 and rear 5/60/5 and set torque split 50:50, which seems to give the best balance between traction and maneuverability. If Gran Turismo features rock crawling I suspect the best settings would be F 5/60/5 and R 5/60/5.

My 2 cents.

 

[Motor City Hami]

This is from my tuning guide. This is the one area of tuning were I will be most black and white. I have spent more time in the GT series than anyone at testing and understanding the LSD. I discovered these settings back in GT4 and PD has not changed the basic function of the LSD in any series since. This is what the LSD does in GT6.

And if anyone chooses to challenge my real world understanding and experience with LSD tuning, go back and read my GT5 tuning guide. I have had many different differentials apart on the workbench from Phantom Grips to Torsion to viscous types to limited slips and clutch packs.

Limited Slip Differential –The limited slip differential is the very first handling bit that should be tuned. The LSD remains what I call a “super tune” just as it was in GT5. If you only have the time, patience or limited understanding of this tuning guide, learn this section. Combine this knowledge with any suspension tuning method and you will be faster in GT6.

LSD Accel: This setting has one purpose, to manage inside and outside wheel spin. If the inside wheel spins first, raise this setting. If the outside wheel spins first, lower this setting. Most often the tire in need of help will turn red upon throttle application from the corner apex. Sometimes, a car will get loose on you, but neither tire turns red. In this case, put two or three levels harder tires on the car and mash the throttle in the slow, 2nd gear corners and you should be able to find which tire turns red first. Keep adjusting until both drive tires spin at the same time and this setting will be optimized. On a few cars, you will find a situation where one click higher will make the outside tire turn just a little red and one click lower will make the inside tire a little red. On these rare cars, you cannot fully optimize this setting and will need to choose one. In general, I am using settings between 8 and 20. I have seen very few cars needing higher than this.

LSD Decel: This setting has one purpose, to manage stability when off throttle (under braking, turn-in or when coasting). If your car is loose (oversteer) in these situations, raise this setting. If your car has understeer during these conditions, lower this setting. Nearly all of my FF car tunes have settings between 5 and 7. This setting is completely car dependent. If PD programed a car to be loose on entry, then this setting is very useful. I cannot find a pattern among cars. For example, I have tested twelve Miata in GT6 and they are ranging from 9 to 22 at the moment.

LSD Initial Torque: This setting determines how much power is needed to activate the diff, to make it lock. What this means is that a higher number produces more understeer and a lower number produces more oversteer. It is that simple. The LSD does not add or subtract acceleration. The LSD cannot send more or less power to the drive train. The LSD can only distribute the given amount of power to each of the drive wheels. I see many on this site confuse the LSD with slipper clutches. This must come from R/C off road racing where slipper clutches are popular. In R/C racing a sipper clutch is added as a bolt on to the drive train and will actually slip as power is applied and grip in the higher revs to keep the rear wheels from spinning. There is still a limited slip differential in those gear boxes and they are not set up to slip. They are set up to do the only job of the LSD, to distribute power from side to side under acceleration and braking. If you set them up to slip, they melt. Same goes for real world, if your LSD slips, it melts. Heat is the #1 enemy of the limited slip. This is why we have traction control in the real world and in GT6. Traction control limits power through the drive train to the wheels, not the LSD.

 

[Grippy]

This is from my tuning guide. This is the one area of tuning were I will be most black and white. I have spent more time in the GT series than anyone at testing and understanding the LSD. I discovered these settings back in GT4 and PD has not changed the basic function of the LSD in any series since. This is what the LSD does in GT6.

And if anyone chooses to challenge my real world understanding and experience with LSD tuning, go back and read my GT5 tuning guide. I have had many different differentials apart on the workbench from Phantom Grips to Torsion to viscous types to limited slips and clutch packs.

Limited Slip Differential –The limited slip differential is the very first handling bit that should be tuned. The LSD remains what I call a “super tune” just as it was in GT5. If you only have the time, patience or limited understanding of this tuning guide, learn this section. Combine this knowledge with any suspension tuning method and you will be faster in GT6.

LSD Accel: This setting has one purpose, to manage inside and outside wheel spin. If the inside wheel spins first, raise this setting. If the outside wheel spins first, lower this setting. Most often the tire in need of help will turn red upon throttle application from the corner apex. Sometimes, a car will get loose on you, but neither tire turns red. In this case, put two or three levels harder tires on the car and mash the throttle in the slow, 2nd gear corners and you should be able to find which tire turns red first. Keep adjusting until both drive tires spin at the same time and this setting will be optimized. On a few cars, you will find a situation where one click higher will make the outside tire turn just a little red and one click lower will make the inside tire a little red. On these rare cars, you cannot fully optimize this setting and will need to choose one. In general, I am using settings between 8 and 20. I have seen very few cars needing higher than this.

LSD Decel: This setting has one purpose, to manage stability when off throttle (under braking, turn-in or when coasting). If your car is loose (oversteer) in these situations, raise this setting. If your car has understeer during these conditions, lower this setting. Nearly all of my FF car tunes have settings between 5 and 7. This setting is completely car dependent. If PD programed a car to be loose on entry, then this setting is very useful. I cannot find a pattern among cars. For example, I have tested twelve Miata in GT6 and they are ranging from 9 to 22 at the moment.

LSD Initial Torque: This setting determines how much power is needed to activate the diff, to make it lock. What this means is that a higher number produces more understeer and a lower number produces more oversteer. It is that simple. The LSD does not add or subtract acceleration. The LSD cannot send more or less power to the drive train. The LSD can only distribute the given amount of power to each of the drive wheels. I see many on this site confuse the LSD with slipper clutches. This must come from R/C off road racing where slipper clutches are popular. In R/C racing a sipper clutch is added as a bolt on to the drive train and will actually slip as power is applied and grip in the higher revs to keep the rear wheels from spinning. There is still a limited slip differential in those gear boxes and they are not set up to slip. They are set up to do the only job of the LSD, to distribute power from side to side under acceleration and braking. If you set them up to slip, they melt. Same goes for real world, if your LSD slips, it melts. Heat is the #1 enemy of the limited slip. This is why we have traction control in the real world and in GT6. Traction control limits power through the drive train to the wheels, not the LSD.

 

[OdeFinn]

LSD Initial Torque: This setting determines how much power is needed to activate the diff, to make it lock. What this means is that a higher number produces more understeer and a lower number produces more oversteer. It is that simple. The LSD does not add or subtract acceleration. The LSD cannot send more or less power to the drive train. The LSD can only distribute the given amount of power to each of the drive wheels.

But when you blip the throttle the LSD tightens, which causes the car to lose grip in the rear and makes it rotate.

Test this with an FF car:

1. Set the LSD to 5/5/5
2. Make "donuts" by turning hard to one direction at full throttle and holding the e-brake.

What you should see is that the inner front tyre goes red (as well as the rear tyres, because of the e-brake) as most torque is directed to that wheel. The outer front tyre is white.

3. Now change the Initial to 60, but leave the others at 5.
4. Do the donut test again.

What you should see now is that both front tyres go red, as the torque is split between both front wheels.

If the acceleration slip is only determined by the accel value, then the results of both the tests should be the same, as the accel value was 5 in both cases. But at Initial = 5 most torque was sent to the inner front wheel, and at Initial = 60 the torque was split between both wheels.

I think the reason why they write that a low Initial value might result in unexpected handling changes when the LSD kicks in is because it is assumed that if you set the Inital low, then you'd set the Accel high, which means that you go from a very loose diff to a very tight diff when it kicks in. But if you set the Init high and the Accel low, you go from a tight diff to a slightly tighter diff, and the handling change isn't as dramatic.

@Motor City Hami this is bit confusing, fights against tests. I.e. @eran0004 test should give different results if initial is only "trigger" value. But partly I'm same side with that trigger, that part is on end of eran0004 post, how big leap between initial and accel or decel has is making difference on activation speed (roughness).
What kind of lock can we except Honda Prelude Type S '96 to produce, it has 35/-/- lock, this is just one brutal example, it could be any car i.e. 30/5/5 custom lock and similar effect would be find.

All tests are saying at GT6 initial is working as real-world initial(preload) works on real LSD. Constant amount of preloaded locking on LSD, acceleration and deceleration values are kicking above that preload on GT6 as on real-world.

 

[Motor City Hami]

@Motor City Hami this is bit confusing, fights against tests. I.e. @eran0004 test should give different results if initial is only "trigger" value. But partly I'm same side with that trigger, that part is on end of eran0004 post, how big leap between initial and accel or decel has is making difference on activation speed (roughness).
What kind of lock can we except Honda Prelude Type S '96 to produce, it has 35/-/- lock, this is just one brutal example, it could be any car i.e. 30/5/5 custom lock and similar effect would be find.

All tests are saying at GT6 initial is working as real-world initial(preload) works on real LSD. Constant amount of preloaded locking on LSD, acceleration and deceleration values are kicking above that preload on GT6 as on real-world.

This part should be really clear. Higher number = under steer, lower number = oversteer. How the game achieves this is all just theory.

 

[OdeFinn]

This part should be really clear. Higher number = under steer, lower number = oversteer. How the game achieves this is all just theory.

I don't get this, if that just triggers how i.e. 35/-/- lock can be triggered, it's empty chamber.
Or what's reason for over/understeer?

 

[Otaliema]

I don't get this, if that just triggers how i.e. 35/-/- lock can be triggered, it's empty chamber.
Or what's reason for over/understeer?

I dont get it myself but I can tell you this, my experience with the LSD in GT5 and GT6 has been exactly as @Motor City Hami has in his guide. Adjusting it no matter how you do it will produce the results in the guide.set it to 30/30/30 I'd recommend a naturally neutral car , take the car for some laps than reduce the Inital to 15 no other ch ages you will find it to turn in better, with the same outside spin response and same breaking response drop the Inital agin to 5 and you will see more turn in rotation with the same outside drive wheel response and breaking response. Adjust the acceleration setting down to 15 you will find it takes less time for the inside drive to start spinning reduce it again to 5 and in MOST cars the inside drive wheel spin up first. The lower decl the more unstable the car is during breaking, so I adjust this to increase entry rotation too low and the car just unsettles and spins out too high and it doesn't want to turn under breaking.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I don't get this, if that just triggers how i.e. 35/-/- lock can be triggered, it's empty chamber.
Or what's reason for over/understeer?

@OdeFinn I have tested and tested and tested and tested the LSD for hours. I hate to point to the scoreboard, but if you want to begin to understand how I have earned so many podium finishes in tuning competitions, a look at my LSD settings would be a great place to start.

I have also test driven a number of times in tuning competitions. There are cars that I have tested, adjusted their LSD settings just for fun and saw their cars go faster than mine. This is how I moved on from LSD testing to better understand dampers and springs. There are quite a few of the current FITT tuners who were way ahead of me in spring and damper tuning. But, it's pretty clear that I caught up.

 

[eran0004]

LSD Initial Torque: This setting determines how much power is needed to activate the diff, to make it lock. What this means is that a higher number produces more understeer and a lower number produces more oversteer. It is that simple. The LSD does not add or subtract acceleration. The LSD cannot send more or less power to the drive train. The LSD can only distribute the given amount of power to each of the drive wheels. I see many on this site confuse the LSD with slipper clutches. This must come from R/C off road racing where slipper clutches are popular. In R/C racing a sipper clutch is added as a bolt on to the drive train and will actually slip as power is applied and grip in the higher revs to keep the rear wheels from spinning. There is still a limited slip differential in those gear boxes and they are not set up to slip. They are set up to do the only job of the LSD, to distribute power from side to side under acceleration and braking. If you set them up to slip, they melt. Same goes for real world, if your LSD slips, it melts. Heat is the #1 enemy of the limited slip. This is why we have traction control in the real world and in GT6. Traction control limits power through the drive train to the wheels, not the LSD.

It doesn't work like that though. A low initial should activate the diff more easily, according to that theory, but that's not the case. Try the front wheel drive example I posted earlier, you'll find that with Initial = 5 (and Accel = 5) you have a lot of slip between the two front wheels (almost all power is sent to the wheel with the least load on it). With Initial = 60 (Accel still 5) you'll find that there is much less slip, and the power is distributed more equally between the two wheels.

If Init determines how easily the slip reduction kicks in, the results should be inverted, there should be less slip with Init = 5 and more slip with Init = 60.

 

[OdeFinn]

I don't get this, if that just triggers how i.e. 35/-/- lock can be triggered, it's empty chamber.
Or what's reason for over/understeer?

@OdeFinn I have tested and tested and tested and tested the LSD for hours. I hate to point to the scoreboard, but if you want to begin to understand how I have earned so many podium finishes in tuning competitions, a look at my LSD settings would be a great place to start.

I have also test driven a number of times in tuning competitions. There are cars that I have tested, adjusted their LSD settings just for fun and saw their cars go faster than mine. This is how I moved on from LSD testing to better understand dampers and springs. There are quite a few of the current FITT tuners who were way ahead of me in spring and damper tuning. But, it's pretty clear that I caught up.

I'm not arguing your reputation on fitt compos, you are just not answering now on question.
If higher number means understeer and lower number understeer, what's reason why it makes such behavior?
According to tests, performed long time ago by me, recently i.e. @eran0004 there is reason for that, but it's not because of triggering locks accel or decel side.
You have performed several tests with LSD and you have equipment to do one test more, use your G27 and clutch pedal on it, pick that earlier mentioned Prelude Type S '96 and Prelude Sir '96 which has 50/30/- lock, put both cars bit more power by adding low turbo (just to make skidding easier) and drive with CS tyres and use stock manual gears with clutch. I.e. Tsukuba last corner entry let car understeer a bit and press clutch down, pump clutch on/off without throttle while car understeer, then same with other prelude, also test with throttle and clutch same thing. You'll see how lock behave.
If you think at stock lock is biasing results you can install custom LSD on FWD car and try with settings i.e. 30/5/5 and 50/30/5 (or 30/30/5 and 5/30/5 for direct comparison). Remember to leave ABS off, it's not helping on this test.

 

[Otaliema]

@eran0004 Theory=Out the window with the GT series with some things. Like the LSD.
Why it does certain things, only PD will know, and maybe the code hackers. It is what it is. Don't try to understand why just how to use it.

 

[OdeFinn]

@eran0004 Theory=Out the window with the GT series with some things. Like the LSD.
Why it does certain things, only PD will know, and maybe the code hackers. It is what it is. Don't try to understand why just how to use it.

This would be easy solution, but it doesn't explain why using real-world setups are working just fine on GT6, I have tested several real-world setups on "hardest" cars as well on "normal" cars and those are settling cars behaviour just like real counterpart car is acting on real-world.

One of latest tests was on Toyota AW11 MR2 1600 Super Charger '86, searched car manufacturer values for base and started to drop values from enthusiast and tuner companies, all sitting in perfectly giving results what are in line of owners comments how those setups are working on their car. Even going on soft/hard bias springs with Anti-roll bar setup changing to other enthusiast way to drive without ARB but hard/soft spring bias suits just perfectly in.
Also when recently made implementation of Ford Escort mark 2 specs into Isuzu Bellett's body found how well real-world values fits in close to same wheel base and weight distribution giving just brilliant results of handling.
These are having really crazy locks if going by hami's book, values are from real-world LSD manufacturer/enthusiast selections.


For fitt compo tunes I have to say one thing, several of those aren't working at all if ABS is switched off, ABS on GT6 is just biggest anti-realism thing what confuses a lot of actual game physics, it masks so much of good physics engine. ABS in GT6 is far far far far far away from just being normal brake assist, it kills big part of suspension physics as well other parts of physics.

 

[Otaliema]

This would be easy solution, but it doesn't explain why using real-world setups are working just fine on GT6, I have tested several real-world setups on "hardest" cars as well on "normal" cars and those are settling cars behaviour just like real counterpart car is acting on real-world.

One of latest tests was on Toyota AW11 MR2 1600 Super Charger '86, searched car manufacturer values for base and started to drop values from enthusiast and tuner companies, all sitting in perfectly giving results what are in line of owners comments how those setups are working on their car. Even going on soft/hard bias springs with Anti-roll bar setup changing to other enthusiast way to drive without ARB but hard/soft spring bias suits just perfectly in.
Also when recently made implementation of Ford Escort mark 2 specs into Isuzu Bellett's body found how well real-world values fits in close to same wheel base and weight distribution giving just brilliant results of handling.
These are having really crazy locks if going by hami's book, values are from real-world LSD manufacturer/enthusiast selections.


For fitt compo tunes I have to say one thing, several of those aren't working at all if ABS is switched off, ABS on GT6 is just biggest anti-realism thing what confuses a lot of actual game physics, it masks so much of good physics engine. ABS in GT6 is far far far far far away from just being normal brake assist, it kills big part of suspension physics as well other parts of physics.

so there are two ways to tune the LSD in the game than.
Real world and Game world.
Real world for those that want a replica drive experience.
Game world for those that want to go as fast as the game will allow.

The more I read on this the more I think both ways are right, it just depends on what you are looking from the tune.

 

[DolHaus]

This would be easy solution, but it doesn't explain why using real-world setups are working just fine on GT6, I have tested several real-world setups on "hardest" cars as well on "normal" cars and those are settling cars behaviour just like real counterpart car is acting on real-world.

One of latest tests was on Toyota AW11 MR2 1600 Super Charger '86, searched car manufacturer values for base and started to drop values from enthusiast and tuner companies, all sitting in perfectly giving results what are in line of owners comments how those setups are working on their car. Even going on soft/hard bias springs with Anti-roll bar setup changing to other enthusiast way to drive without ARB but hard/soft spring bias suits just perfectly in.
Also when recently made implementation of Ford Escort mark 2 specs into Isuzu Bellett's body found how well real-world values fits in close to same wheel base and weight distribution giving just brilliant results of handling.

For fitt compo tunes I have to say one thing, several of those aren't working at all if ABS is switched off, ABS on GT6 is just biggest anti-realism thing what confuses a lot of actual game physics, it masks so much of good physics engine. ABS in GT6 is far far far far far away from just being normal brake assist, it kills big part of suspension physics as well other parts of physics.

What do you mean by real world settings are working just fine? Its almost impossible to build a car that is undriveable with the way GT does things but if you use real life numbers/approach then you are usually crippling the performance compared to a car that has been tuned to suit the game

 

[Lionheart2113]

You have performed several tests with LSD and you have equipment to do one test more, use your G27 and clutch pedal on it, pick that earlier mentioned Prelude Type S '96 and Prelude Sir '96 which has 50/30/- lock, put both cars bit more power by adding low turbo (just to make skidding easier) and drive with CS tyres and use stock manual gears with clutch. I.e. Tsukuba last corner entry let car understeer a bit and press clutch down, pump clutch on/off without throttle while car understeer, then same with other prelude, also test with throttle and clutch same thing. You'll see how lock behave.
If you think at stock lock is biasing results you can install custom LSD on FWD car and try with settings i.e. 30/5/5 and 50/30/5 (or 30/30/5 and 5/30/5 for direct comparison). Remember to leave ABS off, it's not helping on this test.

So if I'm reading this correctly... In order to "feel" this condition you're going to need a G27 wheel with clutch setup, manual transmission, and ABS off?
That puts me and about 60% of players out.

 

[OdeFinn]

What do you mean by real world settings are working just fine? Its almost impossible to build a car that is undriveable with the way GT does things but if you use real life numbers/approach then you are usually crippling the performance compared to a car that has been tuned to suit the game

Take ABS off and several "good" tunes are turned to awful and replica wipes podium.
As long as you're using ABS you can tune really freely and make super fast hotlapper TT cars, when ABS is off order of tunes changes.
I'm looking from this game kinda simulator way of approach to my gaming experience, I'm not crying on online races if not winning, but jumping on joy when all drivers are respecting each other and cars and racing clean tight race.

So if I'm reading this correctly... In order to "feel" this condition you're going to need a G27 wheel with clutch setup, manual transmission, and ABS off?
That puts me and about 60% of players out.

Can be seen and "feel" without, you probably have some feeling in your head while driving with your dpad, if that if feeling right then you should be able to "feel" that thru your visual signs and audio visual effects. Maybe that controller vibrates?

 

[eran0004]

@eran0004 Theory=Out the window with the GT series with some things. Like the LSD.
Why it does certain things, only PD will know, and maybe the code hackers. It is what it is. Don't try to understand why just how to use it.

That's a very strange way to look at it. It's a computer model, it's guided by strict rules. Of course it's possible to figure out how it works and I don't know why you're telling me not to try. You don't need to be able to hack a game to figure out how it works, all need to do is figure out what you want to test, what a good way of testing it would be and then test it. It's not rocket science.

The very matter of how something works gives you a better understanding of what it does. Knowing that high X = understeer, low Y = oversteer might work as a rough approximation in many circumstances, but it's just an approximation and as such it doesn't tell you the full story.

 

[Otaliema]

That's a very strange way to look at it. It's a computer model, it's guided by strict rules. Of course it's possible to figure out how it works and I don't know why you're telling me not to try. You don't need to be able to hack a game to figure out how it works, all need to do is figure out what you want to test, what a good way of testing it would be and then test it. It's not rocket science.

The very matter of how something works gives you a better understanding of what it does. Knowing that high X = understeer, low Y = oversteer might work as a rough approximation in many circumstances, but it's just an approximation and as such it doesn't tell you the full story.

Agreed, but the more testing we do the more confllicting results we get.
We know the game the game method makes no sense IRL, real life set ups' work but are sacrificing speed in the game.
Take my Quattro '86 for the current seasonal, 5/25/5 5/45/5 and it the car rotates on a dime.
I go with a more real set up like 25/40/30 35/40/40 (numbers pulled outta my *%$) and the car refuses to turn on tarmac, and is good on dirt.
I''m just saying that the more this looked into it, it looks like due to game physics, the LSD has two ways of being tuned, one for replica/fun the other for speed.

 

[OdeFinn]

Agreed, but the more testing we do the more confllicting results we get.
We know the game the game method makes no sense IRL, real life set ups' work but are sacrificing speed in the game.
Take my Quattro '86 for the current seasonal, 5/25/5 5/45/5 and it the car rotates on a dime.
I go with a more real set up like 25/40/30 35/40/40 (numbers pulled outta my *%$) and the car refuses to turn on tarmac, and is good on dirt.
I''m just saying that the more this looked into it, it looks like due to game physics, the LSD has two ways of being tuned, one for replica/fun the other for speed.

LSD has 55*55*55=166375 ways to tune in GT6, none of them is right, all depends purpose of wanted lock.
Whole point is understanding why and how it works to make it suit your desired needs and driving habits.
When you understand how it works then you'll understand why grip factor is related to way how you setup LSD.

There is no one right way to setup LSD. But LSD works only one way.

 

[eran0004]

Agreed, but the more testing we do the more confllicting results we get.
We know the game the game method makes no sense IRL, real life set ups' work but are sacrificing speed in the game.
Take my Quattro '86 for the current seasonal, 5/25/5 5/45/5 and it the car rotates on a dime.
I go with a more real set up like 25/40/30 35/40/40 (numbers pulled outta my *%$) and the car refuses to turn on tarmac, and is good on dirt.
I''m just saying that the more this looked into it, it looks like due to game physics, the LSD has two ways of being tuned, one for replica/fun the other for speed.

I haven't seen any conflicting data. What I've seen are conflicting conclusions, which is something else entirely. And it's impossible to to use an IRL setup without first knowing what each setting does and what the numbers represent.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

So if I'm reading this correctly... In order to "feel" this condition you're going to need a G27 wheel with clutch setup, manual transmission, and ABS off?
That puts me and about 60% of players out.

Head to the last post of my garage, it's not really necessary to use a wheel with clutch, and on page 143, I added how to have similar effect with DS3 using FR car and handbrake hold for a few seconds to disengage the engine while traveling at speed in straight line ( similar to depressing the clutch, gear indicator greyed out, rev drop to idle ), there you can immediately test the high initial vs low initial easily. Simply read through page 143 and 144 ( lots of information posted there ). If you feel ABS off is too hard, try lower the brake balance to 0/0 or 1/1 or 2/1, gt6 brake balance is much more friendlier than GT5 and less prone to lock up.

 

[Otaliema]

LSD has 55*55*55=166375 ways to tune in GT6, none of them is right, all depends purpose of wanted lock.
Whole point is understanding why and how it works to make it suit your desired needs and driving habits.
When you understand how it works then you'll understand why grip factor is related to way how you setup LSD.

There is no one right way to setup LSD. But LSD works only one way.

Ok, that's fine and dandy. But why try to understand it's behavior in a way that less than 10% of the players in the world can use or drive like? Why not understand it in way that 60-70% can use. ABS1 with a DS3, another 15-20% use a wheel (in some form) with ABS1, that would be a better use of time.

Because if what you're saying is correct it acts differently with a clutch and ABS 0, if so, great have at it, but that wont help me or most users on this forum and game. What does it do with ABS 1, TCS 1,? Yes these incorrectly acting aids but they are there, and lot of people use them. MOST people at least use ABS 1. So if you want to help the community with LSD information, test with is ON other wise the tests wont be much good, based on what you've said already.
If you can't feel, find or determine results ABS 1, than change the way you're testing it. I'ms sure PD did program in behaviors for a disengaged engine, but again, how many of us disengage the engine when we are playing? 10% to 15%?

I haven't seen any conflicting data. What I've seen are conflicting conclusions, which is something else entirely. And it's impossible to to use an IRL setup without first knowing what each setting does and what the numbers represent.

If you can figure out the way PD represented the LSD numbers in relation to real life, you will have cracked the LSD code and we can tune it correctly. I know @Ridox2JZGTE and OdeFinn take the numbers to mean % of throttle or brakes, if I have understood them correctly. You're correct the data is the same the way we read it is different. So over all, it's all correct, just what are you looking for in the tune. Fast, fun, replica, drift or drag?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Ok, that's fine and dandy. But why try to understand it's behavior in a way that less than 10% of the players in the world can use or drive like? Why not understand it in way that 60-70% can use. ABS1 with a DS3, another 15-20% use a wheel (in some form) with ABS1, that would be a better use of time.

Because if what you're saying is correct it acts differently with a clutch and ABS 0, if so, great have at it, but that wont help me or most users on this forum and game. What does it do with ABS 1, TCS 1,? Yes these incorrectly acting aids but they are there, and lot of people use them. MOST people at least use ABS 1. So if you want to help the community with LSD information, test with is ON other wise the tests wont be much good, based on what you've said already.
If you can't feel, find or determine results ABS 1, than change the way you're testing it. I'ms sure PD did program in behaviors for a disengaged engine, but again, how many of us disengage the engine when we are playing? 10% to 15%?


If you can figure out the way PD represented the LSD numbers in relation to real life, you will have cracked the LSD code and we can tune it correctly. I know @Ridox2JZGTE and OdeFinn take the numbers to mean % of throttle or brakes, if I have understood them correctly. You're correct the data is the same the way we read it is different. So over all, it's all correct, just what are you looking for in the tune. Fast, fun, replica, drift or drag?

Read through my garage page 143 and 144, there has been misunderstanding here of what @OdeFinn says

I never use wheel or clutch in GT my last post on page 144 describe in detail about testing initial.

 

[saywhat]

Fast, fun, replica, drift or drag?

99.999999% of drag racers don't even buy an LSD.
It serves no purpose.

Unless they know a couple tricks

And what I do find odd, while using the standard diff and real track settings.
When we launch, on our makeshift strip at Indy, both rear wheels smoke up simultaneously.

 

[Lionheart2113]

Head to the last post of my garage, it's not really necessary to use a wheel with clutch, and on page 143, I added how to have similar effect with DS3 using FR car and handbrake hold for a few seconds to disengage the engine while traveling at speed in straight line ( similar to depressing the clutch, gear indicator greyed out, rev drop to idle ), there you can immediately test the high initial vs low initial easily. Simply read through page 143 and 144 ( lots of information posted there ). If you feel ABS off is too hard, try lower the brake balance to 0/0 or 1/1 or 2/1, gt6 brake balance is much more friendlier than GT5 and less prone to lock up.

You know me, I'm always down for testing so I'll give it some attention after work:tup:... Just as long as I'm not told what color to paint a specific set of rims!

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

You know me, I'm always down for testing so I'll give it some attention after work:tup:... Just as long as I'm not told what color to paint a specific set of rims!

On my last post, you can do the test easily with ABS 1 as it concern primarily on corner exit with muscle car I talked about clutch as it allows more methodical testing to see how initial / preload affect the car during no throttle and no braking phase. The handbrake method work on DS3 ( only on FR, on FF it won't disengage ), tested it with Art Morrison Vette at Apricot Hill, needs to be in straight line or you may spin , feel free to use ABS.

 

[OdeFinn]

Ok, that's fine and dandy. But why try to understand it's behavior in a way that less than 10% of the players in the world can use or drive like? Why not understand it in way that 60-70% can use. ABS1 with a DS3, another 15-20% use a wheel (in some form) with ABS1, that would be a better use of time.

Hmm.. Nearly 100% GT6 players uses LSD. It's working same with or without ABS.
For breaking down physics I just suggested to use clutch and no ABS to get clearer locking effect to analyse.
Well.. Information of how things work isn't hurting anyone, only helping, if you know how it works you can produce your own perfect locks for your driving habits.

Because if what you're saying is correct it acts differently with a clutch and ABS 0, if so, great have at it, but that wont help me or most users on this forum and game. What does it do with ABS 1, TCS 1,? Yes these incorrectly acting aids but they are there, and lot of people use them. MOST people at least use ABS 1. So if you want to help the community with LSD information, test with is ON other wise the tests wont be much good, based on what you've said already.
If you can't feel, find or determine results ABS 1, than change the way you're testing it. I'ms sure PD did program in behaviors for a disengaged engine, but again, how many of us disengage the engine when we are playing? 10% to 15%?

I'm not saying at it's acting differently with clutch, or do I really, don't know where.
As said above, it was suggestion to Hami for testing to find LSD effect easiest.

If you can figure out the way PD represented the LSD numbers in relation to real life, you will have cracked the LSD code and we can tune it correctly. I know @Ridox2JZGTE and OdeFinn take the numbers to mean % of throttle or brakes, if I have understood them correctly. You're correct the data is the same the way we read it is different. So over all, it's all correct, just what are you looking for in the tune. Fast, fun, replica, drift or drag?

I'm speaking locking percentages everywhere, this starts to sound bit weird but you're trying to put really weird words to my mouth. Hopefully you're just misinterpreting something.
My theory(assumptions/tests) says i.e.10/50/30 lock to be counterpart of real-world 60/40% locking LSD which is running preload giving 10% locking rate. Then there is small things around it, does standard clutch slip so much at it won't give full locking to those percentages, or is locking just going smoother to three with it? Why carbon propeller shaft allows lock to do more rapid locking? I have theory why, but we're braking actual LSD here too.
I'm in understanding at it's kinda easy to calculate spinning differences of wheels when lock is engaged, making tests for this thing is not hard to do.