Lots of Games have it Now. Should GT 5 have a Rewind Option?

[alfy13]

Here you are going off and making assumptions... if you go to a gamestop 2 or 3 days after GT5 comes out I bet you will find used copies already... you know why? People who bought it and returned it already because it was frustrating and either they did not read reviews or didn't understand the difficulty from the reviews they did use.

Basically you can't just wrap up casual players with two options. I actually know casual players who don't fit your description at all..

You are asking questions, then discounting the answers based on assumptions you are generalizing as being some kind of rule.

BTW making games around casuals? Did you see KY's recent review and how he states GTPSP was made with being casual friendly in mind? The GT franchise is indeed widening it's audience.

When I read your reasons of wanting rewind to help casuals play, this is what I see.

A student should not need to study, becacause its very frustrating. So the teacher should just have her/student not study any more, and that the teacher should just throw out hints here and there, till the student guesses it right. Instead of actually learning the subject.

And that is why rewind is not going to help casuals be less frustrated with the game. Reason why they are frustrated, is because of the driving mechanics. The driving mechanic is not going to change, so If they can not learn that, they will always be frustrated, and rewind is not going to help alleviate the frustration.

And I love how you dodge my question before, so I will ask again. How is rewind going to help a causal understanding of oversteer and understeer etc and how to deal with it? Which is probably why they are frustrated in the first place.

So I take it, your next request is to have GT to use one button racing. Since its supposely to help causals.

Also why are you bringing up the PSP for? Its only common sense they cant build full blown sim off a PSP tech and controllers. God, doesnt take science to that figure that out. I mean the comment made by Kazu must mean something, GTPSP is GT on the Go.

 

[Zathra5_]

Look up the definition of a simulator and then you'll know why. In real life, does time rewind when drivers mess up so they can try again? No. So, if the game allows that, it's not a simulator, because it's not representing anything in real life.

There is no way GT is a simulator. There is no way that I would be able to drive an F2007 (or most of the other cars) in real life. The game shouldn't allow you to race at Suzuka and then race at Daytona without taking into account travel time. Its just not possible. If I get into a car accident there needs to be real damage, I mean broken legs, maybe a skull, real pain. If I can't kill myself by crashing into a wall at 200km/h, its just not a sim.

Alfy, your right. I don't see how anyone would think that practicing something over and over again would make them a better driver. There is now way that they will understand under and oversteer by practicing a corner and changing how they throttle and brake and seeing how that affects how they get through the corner. Its an absurd idea really. When has practice ever helped someone?

 

[Exorcet]

And that is why rewind is not going to help casuals be less frustrated with the game. Reason why they are frustrated, is because of the driving mechanics. The driving mechanic is not going to change, so If they can not learn that, they will always be frustrated, and rewind is not going to help alleviate the frustration.

It's fine that the driving mechancis don't change. Rewind isn't trying to change them as stnd phyics/NFS mode does. Rewind is letting people learn the driving mechnaics.

 

[alfy13]

It's fine that the driving mechancis don't change. Rewind isn't trying to change them as stnd phyics/NFS mode does. Rewind is letting people learn the driving mechnaics.

Also not having, does the same. I still do not see the point of rewind. But hey, if rewind is there to help casuals learn, then we should ask PD to add in one button racing.

Also I never said, rewind is going to change the driving mechanics. I am just stating the driving mechanics will not change, even if they rewinded to their mistakes. If they do not understand what caused their mistakes, because they dont understand what oversteer and understeer works, they will be rewinding all day.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Also not having, does the same. I still do not see the point of rewind. But hey, if rewind is there to help casuals learn, then we should ask PD to add in one button racing.

Why does it always come down to anti-Forza features? My guess is the majority of people here complaining about rewind don't want rewind (or one button) is because Forza has it. Had GT implemented it first, I am sure there would be a different tune sung. I see that happen on both sides of the fence.

 

[alfy13]

Why does it always come down to anti-Forza features? My guess is the majority of people here complaining about rewind don't want rewind (or one button) is because Forza has it. Had GT implemented it first, I am sure there would be a different tune sung. I see that happen on both sides of the fence.

Sorry, but where in my post did I even mention Forza series? If anything, why did you even have to bring up Forza in the first place.

To me, the posters who are for rewind, make it out to be "Do it for the Casuals" then we they should ask PD to add one button racing also.

I think , I would respect these ppl who are for rewind, if they did not add casuals into their post. If they would just come up and be honest about it, and say I want rewind, because I make to many mistakes, so it's very frustrating,Then I would not reply. So Instead of using casuals as an excuse on why we should have rewind, just be honest with us why you want it in the game.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Sorry, but where in my post did I even mention Forza series? If anything, why did you even have to bring up Forza in the first place.

Because in the post above mine, you just got done lambasting Rewind and One button racing, something FM3 has added this year. Looking at your posting history, it's quite apparent as to what your intent was.

Why can't people just like BOTH games and like BOTH directions that BOTH sims are. In the end, I thought we were all RACING fans, not console/game specific fans.

 

[Scaff]

Sorry, but where in my post did I even mention Forza series? If anything, why did you even have to bring up Forza in the first place.

Because in the post above mine, you just got done lambasting Rewind and Autobrake, something FM3 has added this year. Looking at your posting history, it's quite apparent as to what your intent was.

It's quite obvious to me that both of your seem hell bent on bringing a flame war to just about any thread you post in, and I'm telling you both, right now, to stop.

Argue the points being made and stop throwing petty insults around and stop dragging your differences across threads and sub-forums.

This is not a suggestion, keep this posting style up and I will solve the problem for everyone.

I hope that this makes the situation quite clear, and to make sure you both understand, this is not open for debate or discussion.


Scaff

 

[alfy13]

Because in the post above mine, you just got done lambasting Rewind and Autobrake, something FM3 has added this year. Looking at your posting history, it's quite apparent as to what your intent was.

Sorry, but the post you are talking about. Has nothing on autobraking. So either you did not read my post, and started to assume what i meant, or you wanted it be a Forza issue. So once again, why are you even bringing up Forza series in the first place?

 

[Bogie 19th]

This is not a suggestion, keep this posting style up and I will solve the problem for everyone.

I have not done any such thing. You do what you need to do.

 

[alfy13]

It's quite obvious to me that both of your seem hell bent on bringing a flame war to just about any thread you post in, and I'm telling you both, right now, to stop.

Argue the points being made and stop throwing petty insults around and stop dragging your differences across threads and sub-forums.




Scaff

Ok, even though me and Bogie have our dissagreements. I do not think we are insulting each other. I respect his opinion, and I hope he respects mine. Also if having different opionions =flame war, then I guess your right.

But the way I see it is, me and him are just looking at each other opinions and quoting what we think about them.

Either way, I pretty much done with the whole rewind issue.

 

[Scaff]

I have not done any such thing. You do what you need to do.

Sorry but did you miss the not a debate part of my post?

This kind of comment.....

And this is why people think you are a fanboy, because you can't accept other people's opinions. Try it once, it won't hurt.

....may be from another thread but is quite representative of exactly what I am talking about.

Throwing the fan-boy insult around, dragging up nonsense digs at FM/GT by any member simply starts flame wars and you have been asked to make sure you argue against the point not the person making the point (and the quote above clearly does not do that).

I have kept this informal so far, that will change if I see any repeats of the above behavior (and I will not do what I want, I will apply the AUP that you agreed to follow when you joined.


Scaff

 

[Bogie 19th]

....may be from another thread but is quite representative of exactly what I am talking about.

Throwing the fan-boy insult around, dragging up nonsense digs at FM/GT by any member simply starts flame wars and you have been asked to make sure you argue against the point not the person making the point (and the quote above clearly does not do that).

I have kept this informal so far, that will change if I see any repeats of the above behavior (and I will not do what I want, I will apply the AUP that you agreed to follow when you joined.


Scaff

Perfect. Then I assume you addressed the person I quoted that said "OldToday, 11:41 AM #82
See, this is why people think you are a fanboy."

Yeah, I am the only one throwing fanboy around here. Ok.

Yes, I did agree to the AUP. And intend to follow the AUP. You need to enforce that AUP as needed. If that involves silencing me, then that is the route you take.

 

[Scaff]

Perfect. Then I assume you addressed the person I quoted that said "OldToday, 11:41 AM #82
See, this is why people think you are a fanboy."

Yeah, I am the only one throwing fanboy around here. Ok.

Yes, I did agree to the AUP. And intend to follow the AUP. You need to enforce that AUP as needed. If that involves silencing me, then that is the route you take.

Don't concern yourself with the action that may have taken against any other member, concern yourself with your own membership.

Do not assume that all issues are dealt with in the same way, they are not, this issue was (in my opinion and that to be blunt is the one that matters right now) escalating between the two of you across a number of threads and the quickest and easiest way to get your attention was a public post. I would have been well within the AUP to have issued an infraction to you (which carry points and too many points will get you banned), I however thought that a public warning was a fairer approach to take.

I would strongly advise that you stop attempting to debate this (as it is not open for debate) and get on with posting (within the bounds of the AUP). Should you continue this line, then I will take firmer action and it will be on your head (you can't say that fair warning has not been given).


Scaff

 

[Bogie 19th]

Don't concern yourself

I am not concerned about anything. Can we just move on?

 

[Scaff]

I am not concerned about anything. Can we just move on?

I don't believe I was the one continuing to discuss a subject that I had been told was not open to debate?

Moving on is exactly what I asked you to do and would be more than happy with that.

Scaff

 

[Exorcet]

Also not having, does the same. I still do not see the point of rewind. But hey, if rewind is there to help casuals learn, then we should ask PD to add in one button racing.

Also I never said, rewind is going to change the driving mechanics. I am just stating the driving mechanics will not change, even if they rewinded to their mistakes. If they do not understand what caused their mistakes, because they dont understand what oversteer and understeer works, they will be rewinding all day.

Good thing rewind is there so they can keep taking that corner and see "oh when I do X I spin, when I do Y I hit the wall, when I do Z I pass the AI".

BTW, I learned about over/understeer well after I started beating GT1. Looking up something in a book won't help them, they need to experience it for themselves, and that's why rewind lets them do.

 

[Scaff]

How is rewind going to help a causal understanding of oversteer and understeer etc and how to deal with it? Which is probably why they are frustrated in the first place.

In the same way that people learn be repetition.

The only way your observation with have any basis is if the person using the rewind function repeated the same mistake over and over again.

If however they made a mistake, let say spun out on a corner, then used rewind and tried a different approach to see if they can avoid spinning out, then they are learning.

One could argue (and as I teach for a living I would) that being able to step back from a situation, look at it and figure out what you did wrong, and then try again, in a short space of time is a rather valuable learning tool.

Disliking a rewind feature because you would not use it is fine, but to claim that its no good for allowing people to learn from mistakes is a flawed argument.

For the record I have used such features before (recently in DiRT 2), and it certainly helped when getting to grips with the handling model of the game, allowing me to learn exactly what it would or would not let me do.

As someone who has taught driving skills, the ability in the real world let someone know why they messed up a corner and let them try again straight away would be such a valuable tool its beyond belief. However that's never going to be possible, and its this element of 'non-realism' that I believe is at the heart of a lot of objections about rewind tools.


Scaff

 

[alfy13]

In the same way that people learn be repetition.

The only way your observation with have any basis is if the person using the rewind function repeated the same mistake over and over again.

If however they made a mistake, let say spun out on a corner, then used rewind and tried a different approach to see if they can avoid spinning out, then they are learning.

One could argue (and as I teach for a living I would) that being able to step back from a situation, look at it and figure out what you did wrong, and then try again, in a short space of time is a rather valuable learning tool.

Disliking a rewind feature because you would not use it is fine, but to claim that its no good for allowing people to learn from mistakes is a flawed argument.

For the record I have used such features before (recently in DiRT 2), and it certainly helped when getting to grips with the handling model of the game, allowing me to learn exactly what it would or would not let me do.

As someone who has taught driving skills, the ability in the real world let someone know why they messed up a corner and let them try again straight away would be such a valuable tool its beyond belief. However that's never going to be possible, and its this element of 'non-realism' that I believe is at the heart of a lot of objections about rewind tools.


Scaff

Finally, someone posted why rewind should be in the game. Even though others stated it, they used casuals as the excuse why it should be in the game. Which is why I argued their reasons, but I can not argue against your opinion, because you used your self is the reason.

Which is my whole issues with all my post against rewind. I do not want a game to be made around casuals, when the game was never made around them in the first place.

But all I want, was someone to give me a really good reason and not use casuals as the reason for this option.

 

[Devedander]

A student should not need to study, becacause its very frustrating. So the teacher should just have her/student not study any more, and that the teacher should just throw out hints here and there, till the student guesses it right. Instead of actually learning the subject.

Sorry, again flawed analogy. Rewind does not give hints or prevent you from having to figure out how to do it right, it just gives you the opportunity to practice as conveniently as possible.

A driver who uses rewind still needs to "study" because if he or she doesn't, they will literally end up diong what I said befor which is going off the same corner the same way over and over.

And if someone chooses not to try and improve, then rewind or not the same result would occur. If someone won't try to figure out how to take a corner better with rewind, then it stands to reason that without rewind, they would keep giong off the corner, not learning anything the same way but with a whole lap in between each time they tried.

And that is why rewind is not going to help casuals be less frustrated with the game. Reason why they are frustrated, is because of the driving mechanics. The driving mechanic is not going to change, so If they can not learn that, they will always be frustrated, and rewind is not going to help alleviate the frustration.

You seem to assume that a casual driver will never get better. I know that to not be true of all casual drivers.

I was a casual gamer, I spent a lot of times going off corners in more realistic games and had no idea what the terms under and oversteer were, I just knew my car handled weird. With practice I learned how to control it.

That's what I am saying, you don't need to be taught the textbook method to learn how to control your car, you can do a lot just with practice. And besides, also as I said, license tests are there to teach you the texbook stuff anyway, rewind wouldn't even need to.

And I love how you dodge my question before, so I will ask again. How is rewind going to help a causal understanding of oversteer and understeer etc and how to deal with it? Which is probably why they are frustrated in the first place.

Nope, didn't dodge it, I explained why it wasn't necessary and addressed hot rewind applies, see above.

So I take it, your next request is to have GT to use one button racing. Since its supposely to help causals.

If it would be of some kind of educational value, sure. I don't see what educational value it would have... but then again, we have bspec already so don't we kind of already have one button driving?

Also why are you bringing up the PSP for? Its only common sense they cant build full blown sim off a PSP tech and controllers. God, doesnt take science to that figure that out. I mean the comment made by Kazu must mean something, GTPSP is GT on the Go.

Really? Weird how common sense was put aside for Toca... and I wasn't bringing up PSP, I was bringing up GTPSP, which is part of the GT series... which I specifically mentioned.

I am entertaining your posts because I don't particularly mind, but it's pretty clear Scaff is correct and you aren't really here to participate in an edcuated dialog or debate but rathe to stir up stuff and instigate a flame war. Quite sad really.

 

[Devedander]

Finally, someone posted why rewind should be in the game. Even though others stated it, they used casuals as the excuse why it should be in the game. Which is why I argued their reasons, but I can not argue against your opinion, because you used your self is the reason.

Really? Darn... I could have sworn I said that here:

Rewind would let her go off a corner, rewind down the straight and maybe she thinks the ebrake will get her around the corner. She can try that, and when it obviously fails, she rewinds again, maybe if she turns sooner, so she tries that, no go still off into the dirt... rewind, maybe brake earlier, whoa hit the brakes too early and crawled around the corner... but it's progress, one more rewind... finds a good braking spot, hits the corner decently, on her way and the next time around the track she doesn't have to worry about what she tried the last 4 times laps ago and try to come up with a new attack plan inthe heat of the race, she knows what works, hits the corner and holds her position!

That's how rewind would work.

As well as quite a few other places where I stated that reptition and trial and error are ways to learn.

But it's ok, I understand you have no reason to avoid flaming or posting useless stuff at me but realize it's wiser to kiss up to someone who can ban you

Which is my whole issues with all my post against rewind. I do not want a game to be made around casuals, when the game was never made around them in the first place.

Well that's fine, everyone is certainly welcome to want what they want and not want what they don't want. I don't really want dozens of skylines in the game, but considering it doesn't hurt me in any way to have them, I don't really see I have a gripe or right to make others defend having them.

But just because the game is evolving into something it wasn't before... well that's not a very good reason to not want something on it's own. I mean when they add cars they didn't have before, do you not want those? When they add WRC and NASCAR which they never had before, do you not want those? When they add damage and online features, do you not want those? What about a livery editor, would you not want that?

Just saying it's never been that way before isn't really a logical argument for why it shoudln't evolve to support more options and a bigger audience.

But all I want, was someone to give me a really good reason and not use casuals as the reason for this option.

Well, first off casuals IS a good reason (I gave a few bullet points as to why a few posts back, but I assume you also conveniently didn't read those just like you didn't read my many explanations how rewind would work as a learning tool), however if you want to exclude that reason, how about, it's eye candy, it can be a good thing to have even for advanced player such as when someone walks in front of the TV, your batteries die in the middle of a turn or the AI clearly behaves innapropriately and you shouldn't have to loose the race because of it. All things that a skilled player can legitimately use rewind for, especially near the end of an enduro or some such.

Sorry alfy, you don't have a leg to stand on outside of what you want.

 

[Devedander]

Sorry double post....

 

[alfy13]

Really? Darn... I could have sworn I said that here:



As well as quite a few other places where I stated that reptition and trial and error are ways to learn.

But it's ok, I understand you have no reason to avoid flaming or posting useless stuff at me but realize it's wiser to kiss up to someone who can ban you



Well that's fine, everyone is certainly welcome to want what they want and not want what they don't want. I don't really want dozens of skylines in the game, but considering it doesn't hurt me in any way to have them, I don't really see I have a gripe or right to make others defend having them.



Well, first off casuals IS a good reason (I gave a few bullet points as to why a few posts back, but I assume you also conveniently didn't read those just like you didn't read my many explanations how rewind would work as a learning tool), however if you want to exclude that reason, how about, it's eye candy, it can be a good thing to have even for advanced player such as when someone walks in front of the TV, your batteries die in the middle of a turn or the AI clearly behaves innapropriately and you shouldn't have to loose the race because of it. All things that a skilled player can legitimately use rewind for, especially near the end of an enduro or some such.

Sorry alfy, you don't have a leg to stand on outside of what you want.

For starters, I was not kissing up to him. He can ban me , the internet is not my life.

2. reason i never read your whole post, because you kept on bringing up causuals, when the game was never made around them. I dont feel like hearing why Casual A. is complaining, because he or she hasnt take the time to learn.
B. I do not feel like reading text book, to find out why you want Rewind.

 

[alfy13]

Really? Darn... I could have sworn I said that here:



As well as quite a few other places where I stated that reptition and trial and error are ways to learn.

But it's ok, I understand you have no reason to avoid flaming or posting useless stuff at me but realize it's wiser to kiss up to someone who can ban you



Well that's fine, everyone is certainly welcome to want what they want and not want what they don't want. I don't really want dozens of skylines in the game, but considering it doesn't hurt me in any way to have them, I don't really see I have a gripe or right to make others defend having them.



Well, first off casuals IS a good reason (I gave a few bullet points as to why a few posts back, but I assume you also conveniently didn't read those just like you didn't read my many explanations how rewind would work as a learning tool), however if you want to exclude that reason, how about, it's eye candy, it can be a good thing to have even for advanced player such as when someone walks in front of the TV, your batteries die in the middle of a turn or the AI clearly behaves innapropriately and you shouldn't have to loose the race because of it. All things that a skilled player can legitimately use rewind for, especially near the end of an enduro or some such.

Sorry alfy, you don't have a leg to stand on outside of what you want.

For starters, I was not kissing up to him. He can ban me all he wants , believe me , the internet is not my life.

2. reason I never read your whole post, because you kept on bringing up causuals, when the game was never made around them. I dont feel like hearing why Casual A. is complaining, because he or she hasnt take the time to learn.
B. I do not feel like reading a text book, to find out why you want Rewind.
C. I still think rewind is a waste of time to put in the game.

 

[Devedander]

For starters, I was not kissing up to him. He can ban me all he wants , believe me , the internet is not my life.

2. reason I never read your whole post, because you kept on bringing up causuals, when the game was never made around them. I dont feel like hearing why Casual A. is complaining, because he or she hasnt take the time to learn.
B. I do not feel like reading a text book, to find out why you want Rewind.
C. I still think rewind is a waste of time to put in the game.

Well, if you are going to LOL that I never answered your questions, you might want to read my replies first, it makes you look pretty silly to go saying stuff which is just patently untrue.

A. I never said casuals were complaining, I simply talked about how the game could be made more accesible for them.

B. Well, you ask a lot of questions, be prepared for some answers. You don't accept simple short answers, you want explanations, but then you won't read the explanations.

C. That's fine. No one said you can't think that way. But if you want to ask or question others on why they think that way, it's kind of considered good form to extend the courtesy of at least reading and considering answers that are given back.

So all things considered, it appears that Scaff really hit the nail on the head, you aren't here for anything creative or constructive, you aren't here to discuss and debate, you are just here to insite and annoy.

You are pretty much the exact example I use for why we should help lower skilled players get better. When they can't participate at the same level and enjoy the challenges others do, they resort to having fun the only way they are capable of, which is to annoy and bother others.

 

[alfy13]

Well, if you are going to LOL that I never answered your questions, you might want to read my replies first, it makes you look pretty silly to go saying stuff which is just patently untrue.

A. I never said casuals were complaining, I simply talked about how the game could be made more accesible for them.

B. Well, you ask a lot of questions, be prepared for some answers. You don't accept simple short answers, you want explanations, but then you won't read the explanations.

C. That's fine. No one said you can't think that way. But if you want to ask or question others on why they think that way, it's kind of considered good form to extend the courtesy of at least reading and considering answers that are given back.

So all things considered, it appears that Scaff really hit the nail on the head, you aren't here for anything creative or constructive, you aren't here to discuss and debate, you are just here to insite and annoy.

You are pretty much the exact example I use for why we should help lower skilled players get better. When they can't participate at the same level and enjoy the challenges others do, they resort to having fun the only way they are capable of, which is to annoy and bother others.

Sorry, but when you started to add your GF for the reasoning of Rewind, I was not able to take you serioulsy. Or your friends who bought the game, but wasnt casual enough for them. I gaven you tons of reason why rewind is not needed, its not my fault you couldnt comprehend what I was saying.

 

[Dravonic]

.

I was giving it some thought and I must say that I believe I was the one misinterpreting the game after all. As you said, Gran Turismo never forced an "as realistic as possible" simulation on anyone. It was never a hardcore sim. It appeals to casuals to a certain extent, and that was what hooked me up in the first place. To say that the game cannot have rewind because it goes against what a hardcore sim represents is really not valid since the game was never one in the first place.

However, I ended up finding a different problem when I reached that conclusion.

GT always had that classic, neat, mature feeling. That certainly was always a characteristic of the game. It is so important that it defines the game. Set's it apart from others.

An interesting thing to notice is how other games implement the driving line. Forza and Shift have some weird green triangles that change colors. GT has a much more classy blue line with an occasional red line above. That's just one example. The whole game has small characteristics that amount to the overall classic and mature feeling of the game.

The way I see rewind, it is just too goofy and don't match with GT. Looking at it working in games like Forza and Grid, it's weird. I don't think it should be in the game that way. It doesn't match with the game the way I see it.

Also, the learning aspect of rewind surely is important, but it could be incorporated in the game in other ways. To a certain extent I think it already is. Take the driving missions for example. They set up some clever and challenging situations to improve your skills. The license tests Devedander brought up are also another example. The game could even let you choose specific sections of a track for you to repeat and learn.

What I mean is, all the learning aspects of rewind can be included in the game in less goofy, more realistic, classier and interesting ways. Even though it is a valid learning tool, it doesn't have any aspects that can't be replicated by using different tools. Therefore, it's not really needed.

 

[Devedander]

Sorry, but when you started to add your GF for the reasoning of Rewind, I was not able to take you serioulsy. Or your friends who bought the game, but wasnt casual enough for them. I gaven you tons of reason why rewind is not needed, its not my fault you couldnt comprehend what I was saying.

I did comprehend and I even responded to them (you should try actually reading other peoples posts sometimes - amazingly just saying I didn't comprehend them doesn't make it true). Your reasons were all flawed or just personal preference. You kept giving analogies that don't accurately represent the situation at all, and you kept intoning that rewind would just result in someone making the same mistake over and over.

I talk about my GF and my friends because they are actual, real world examples I know of. I could say things in general about how people would behave but that's an assumption, real empiracle evidence is better than assumptions and generalizations.

So again, sorry, I gave you plenty of logical, well worded and rational reasons. You gave me flawed analogies and incorrect assumptions without even bothering to read the answers you asked for.

You dug the hole yourself and I am sorry but you aren't going to be able to get out of it.

 

[IsmokeGT]

You dug the hole yourself and I am sorry but you aren't going to be able to get out of it.

You are a bad dude!

blah blaah blaaaaah!

 

[Devedander]

What I mean is, all the learning aspects of rewind can be included in the game in less goofy, more realistic, classier and interesting ways. Even though it is a valid learning tool, it doesn't have any aspects that can't be replicated by using different tools. Therefore, it's not really needed.

It seems that it's the presentation, the actual eye candy part of rewind that bothers you more than anything... I do see what you mean by how rewind would fit into a classy looking game, but if anyone can fit something in and make it classy, PD can.

And having played with rewind a fair amount in other games, I can say that it can be very flashy and over the top, but I can also see how it could easily be implimented in such a way as to be very understated.

And yes other tools can cover a lot of what rewind can, and rewind lacks the ability to cover certain things other tools might do better, but there is one thing inerent to rewind and that is: it allows you to easily access the tool in a streamlined manner conveniently from a race and gives you the graunlarity to easily setup any section for practice with the bonus of having a real racing environment to practice in.

I think of license tests as mostly there to help with hot laps. Learning the best way to handle a corner, the absolute fastest line and best breaking point is great... until you throw other cars into the mix.

Suddenly you have to adjust, maybe underbraking is needed, maybe you have very adverse conditions and you must choose the lesser of two evils (ie hit a guard rail a bit instead of rear ending someone).

Only rewind let's you practice an infinite set of real racing situations easily with almost no setup required and without having to go into some designated learning section of the game.

Rewind isn't a catch all make you great tool, but I think it definitely does offer some options that are otherwise not available.

You are a bad dude!

blah blaah blaaaaah!

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You and alfy should get together, you seem to have a lot in common