Lsd Or No Lsd??

[tekong]

Just wondering, the whole time i'm drifting in gt3, i never installed any LSD, and all the settings in setting depot have the LSDsetting. i found it's a bit complicated to understand the details of how this items works and so i just ignored it. what do i understand is that this thing balanced up the tyre rotation but i think the way you control the throttle and gear ratio should do the job. am i right? so... what do you guys think?

 

[Delphic Reason]

The LSD makes it possible for both wheels to spin at the relative same speed... This is imperative for drifting. You should always at least install a 1.5 or 2 way LSD, especialy if you cannot understand how to set up a full custom LSD...

 

[HACKr]

Should I even answer this question? (LSD)

Actually, I go with out it, 'cause I'm too lazy to figure it out.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Should I even answer this question? (LSD)

Actually, I go with out it, 'cause I'm too lazy to figure it out.

That's why you should at least use a 1.5 or 2 way LSD. There is no setup required. In real life 1.5 and 2 way mechanical (or clutch type) LSD's are the most common... It just doesn't make any sense to go without one. The car WILL be easier to control, with an LSD installed, in a drift situation.

i think the way you control the throttle and gear ratio should do the job. am i right? so...

No amount of throttle control or gear ratio fiddling will compensate for not having an LSD. The only way to equalize tire rotation, is through the use of an LSD... Period...

 

[rsmithdrift]

Click the link in my sig V

 

[tekong]

That's why you should at least use a 1.5 or 2 way LSD. There is no setup required. In real life 1.5 and 2 way mechanical (or clutch type) LSD's are the most common... It just doesn't make any sense to go without one. The car WILL be easier to control, with an LSD installed, in a drift situation.

but when i refer to keichi tsuchiya drift bible, he gave an adivece to install the LSD when u have the skill of maneuvering the car without it on the first place, but that's on a real life drifting. i still don't understand how it relates to gt3. what i believe in drifting if that if u can get shift your car weight and get the right corner, then lets the throttle and counter steer do the job. even the upgrade description of the items in the game are a bit confusing and complicated. i can understand the importance of tyre chamber, spring rate distribution but LSD... still circularing in outside my brain. even my vid of taking the apricot hill 1st corner using FC is without LSD. at least, if someone can show a vid between with and withour LSD, things might be more clear in terms of visual understanding.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

It is possible to drift and race without limited-slip action, i do it all the time in low-powered cars. I've noticed that in some cars as you increase the power, LSD units become more necessary to prevent wheelspin that can damage the balance of your drifting.

Hey Delphic, if a preset LSD (1 way, 1.5, or 2 way) is activated by clutch, what are the full-custom units activiated by? Just curious.

 

[Scaff]

Hey Delphic, if a preset LSD (1 way, 1.5, or 2 way) is activated by clutch, what are the full-custom units activiated by? Just curious.

The same thing, you just get to set the level at which the slip occurs.

Actually to be more accurate, real world differentials (while all carrying out the same basic function) can be of a clutch plate type design, viscous coupling (common for centre diffs), fully locked (simple on/off - common in serious off road stuff), or other more specialist types (such as Quaife's gear based system).


Regards

Scaff

BTW - non drifting stuff on LSD set-up can be found in the second of my GT tuning guides - link in my sig.

 

[Delphic Reason]

but when i refer to keichi tsuchiya drift bible, he gave an adivece to install the LSD when u have the skill of maneuvering the car without it on the first place, but that's on a real life drifting. i still don't understand how it relates to gt3. what i believe in drifting if that if u can get shift your car weight and get the right corner, then lets the throttle and counter steer do the job. even the upgrade description of the items in the game are a bit confusing and complicated. i can understand the importance of tyre chamber, spring rate distribution but LSD... still circularing in outside my brain. even my vid of taking the apricot hill 1st corner using FC is without LSD. at least, if someone can show a vid between with and withour LSD, things might be more clear in terms of visual understanding.

Without an LSD, if you lose traction, power is going to go the path of least resistance. Meaning, one wheel is going to spin faster than the other (or more likely, one wheel will spin by iteself)... With an LSD, the power is more equaly distributed between the two sides. This gives you more control, and allows for far greater angles, and longer drifts, with less effort.

what i believe in drifting if that if u can get shift your car weight and get the right corner, then lets the throttle and counter steer do the job.

You can drift anything with any setup. That's not the point. The point is, throttle control and weight transfer cannot possibly make the wheels spin at the same speed. Only an LSD can do that. An LSD will make your job easier. That's all. There just isn't any point to going without. Why do it the hard way?

but when i refer to keichi tsuchiya drift bible, he gave an adivece to install the LSD when u have the skill of maneuvering the car without it on the first place, but that's on a real life drifting.

In real life, LSD's can cost between $800 and $2000, so it's not something you want to buy until you know you at least have the skill to maneuver a car well in the first place. In a video game, that's not really an issue... Also, Keichi did say in The Drift Bible, an LSD and good suspension is necessary for a drift car (once you are sure that's what you want your car to be)...

 

[Mind SV]

Also, Keichi did say in The Drift Bible, an LSD and good suspension is necessary for a drift car (once you are sure that's what you want your car to be)...

I just happened to watch the Drift Bible a couple days ago, thats exactly right.
DR knows what he is talking about.

 

[HACKr]

That's why you should at least use a 1.5 or 2 way LSD. There is no setup required. In real life 1.5 and 2 way mechanical (or clutch type) LSD's are the most common... It just doesn't make any sense to go without one. The car WILL be easier to control, with an LSD installed, in a drift situation.



No amount of throttle control or gear ratio fiddling will compensate for not having an LSD. The only way to equalize tire rotation, is through the use of an LSD... Period...

I just meant I go without adjusting it.

 

[tekong]

In real life, LSD's can cost between $800 and $2000, so it's not something you want to buy until you know you at least have the skill to maneuver a car well in the first place. In a video game, that's not really an issue... Also, Keichi did say in The Drift Bible, an LSD and good suspension is necessary for a drift car (once you are sure that's what you want your car to be)...

allright. i got the point here! since i don't have a car yet, i'm not aware for this kind of info that's truly hurts. should be thinking twice before installling into the car in real world.

You can drift anything with any setup. That's not the point. The point is, throttle control and weight transfer cannot possibly make the wheels spin at the same speed. Only an LSD can do that. An LSD will make your job easier. That's all. There just isn't any point to going without. Why do it the hard way?

anyway, i've watch the drift bible video again and what you say is true. but still in my point of view, lsd installation should be the last thing to do until your you have mastered the basic technique (what do you think?). i shall spend this month to test the lsd setting and if lucky enough, maybe a video for a reference to the newbie out there. anyway, thanks guys for the great discussion.

 

[twinturboengine]

Tuning the LSD is pretty simple once you know certain characteristics of each type of drive (4WD, RR, MR, FF).

 

[LastHours]

Most RWD cars in GT3 already have LSDs (FC3S, FD3S, S13, S14, S15 (all the S chassis Nissans have Viscous LSDs). Those are some of the cars. Now take an AE86 Trueno (not the SS version), make sure it is stock or that it has a stock differential (it's open diff), and try to do a donut. Can't do it, right? Now install an LSD, and try it out. Much better, correct? The LSD makes both tires spin making the rear end of the car able to break out with the apllication of power. I had an AE86 with an open diff, and I couldn't drift with the power of the motor. But I bought another AE86 with LSD, and I can do donuts all day. LSD is pretty much the most important part for drifting.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Most RWD cars in GT3 already have LSDs (FC3S, FD3S, S13, S14, S15 (all the S chassis Nissans have Viscous LSDs). Those are some of the cars. Now take an AE86 Trueno (not the SS version), make sure it is stock or that it has a stock differential (it's open diff), and try to do a donut. Can't do it, right? Now install an LSD, and try it out. Much better, correct? The LSD makes both tires spin making the rear end of the car able to break out with the apllication of power. I had an AE86 with an open diff, and I couldn't drift with the power of the motor. But I bought another AE86 with LSD, and I can do donuts all day. LSD is pretty much the most important part for drifting.

Yup, i agree, some cars in GT3 (the Viper comes to mind) are surprisngly grippy when stock, and that's one of the reasons i don't use lsd's until i'm using some serious power during races. It's also been proven by Sucahyo that many of the cars in GT2 also have stock limited-slip devices. It seems the programmers can assign a value to make a car's wheels slip more of less. An older Corvette is noticeably more slippery than a newer one in GT2.

 

[LastHours]

The point of an LSD is not really for drifting. The LSD was designed so there is more available traction when accelerating from a corner or off the hole. When you spin the tires on a RWD car with LSD, it will over steer. Like I said before, I've had 2 AE86s. One with the SOHC carb motor (open differential), and the other with the twin cam EFI motor (LSD). The SOHC motor has 70 hp, but with my open diff, it was easy to spin a tire (this does not mean it was drifting. It's impossible to drift with power with an open diff). My twin cam is rated at 112 hp, but the LSD makes it hard to lose traction. But when it does lose traction, I oversteer or drift. You need both tires spinning to keep the drift going, so you need an LSD.

 

[rsmithdrift]

The point of an LSD is not really for drifting. The LSD was designed so there is more available traction when accelerating from a corner or off the hole. When you spin the tires on a RWD car with LSD, it will over steer. Like I said before, I've had 2 AE86s. One with the SOHC carb motor (open differential), and the other with the twin cam EFI motor (LSD). The SOHC motor has 70 hp, but with my open diff, it was easy to spin a tire (this does not mean it was drifting. It's impossible to drift with power with an open diff). My twin cam is rated at 112 hp, but the LSD makes it hard to lose traction. But when it does lose traction, I oversteer or drift. You need both tires spinning to keep the drift going, so you need an LSD.

Exactly why I want to weld my 240sx's open diff. I HATE PEG LEGGING!!!!!!!🤬

 

[LastHours]

Exactly why I want to weld my 240sx's open diff. I HATE PEG LEGGING!!!!!!!🤬

Welding the spider gears on an open diff will work, but not safe. When the welds break, the chunks of metal fly all over the inside of your diff case, and then jam the gears. This means a broken diff. You will need a new diff. If you have the money to spend, I suggest getting a Kaaz, Cusco, or any clutch type LSD.

 

[tekong]

Welding the spider gears on an open diff will work, but not safe. When the welds break, the chunks of metal fly all over the inside of your diff case, and then jam the gears. This means a broken diff. You will need a new diff. If you have the money to spend, I suggest getting a Kaaz, Cusco, or any clutch type LSD.

HaHa! looks like this thread has become a discussion had turn out from the gaming world of drift into the real world drifting. just felt frustrated coz i can''t give my comment since i don't own a car yet.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Welding the spider gears on an open diff will work, but not safe. When the welds break, the chunks of metal fly all over the inside of your diff case, and then jam the gears. This means a broken diff. You will need a new diff. If you have the money to spend, I suggest getting a Kaaz, Cusco, or any clutch type LSD.

Yes indeed. Or at least, go with a viscous, if you don't want to spend a bunch of money, right away. I bought a JDM VLSD with JDM 5 bolt axles (internals were brand new, in a used pumpkin) for $250... I installed it myself, and boy what a difference. Now that I have the JDM pumpkin, and the longer JDM axles, the switch to clutch type internals (probably Kaaz) will be a snap. I already have my Kaaz on it's way from Japan. Although, it will be a few months, untill I can install it into my pumpkin, because I have a lot of other work to do to the car first (suspension work)... As Last Hours said, the LSD is meant to give a vehicle MORE grip, which is what is needed in drifting. Many people have this weird idea, that drifting is about losing grip. This is not the case. Drifting is about utilizing varying degrees of grip to hold your car in a variety of angles and speeds... The LSD can make it initialy more difficult to start a drift (at least, through power over), but once the tires break loose, you have a lot more control over the vehicles speed and trajectory.

 

[rsmithdrift]

Yes indeed. Or at least, go with a viscous, if you don't want to spend a bunch of money, right away. As Last Hours said, the LSD is meant to give a vehicle MORE grip, which is what is needed in drifting. Many people have this weird idea, that drifting is about losing grip. This is not the case. Drifting is about utilizing varying degrees of grip to hold your car in a variety of angles and speeds... The LSD can make it initialy more difficult to start a drift (at least, through power over), but once the tires break loose, you have a lot more control over the vehicles speed and trajectory.

To enhanse on the supbject......Weldlocks ARE good for drifting and not as bad in daily life as most think that they are.

When both rear wheels loose traction(sliding/drifting/oversteer), and you continue to feed throttle, the clutch diff is gonna be completely locked, 50%/50% to both axles. Amazingly, that is EXACTLY the torque split that a locked differential has. Wow. I said it works exactly like a 2 way WHEN SLIDING. Read what I said. Don't missquote me. I didn't say they operate the same. I gave a situation.


And yes, obviously when you are going through turns when not drifting, you don't have the same amount of traction as a clutch diff, but did I ever say that? NO.

It doesn't end up mattering too much, because when you are drifting, you continue to link corners, so you never have rear grip anyways, and clutch diffs spend most of the time locked through a run.

He was responding to a tard who new nothing about drifting who was saying it was retarded to put Welded diffs on a drift car but I couldn't have said it much better myself.

Whith a 2-way LSD it will act EXACTLY like a welded diff while drifting because you are always wheelspinning or locking the rear end. In both of these situations the 2-way will remain FULLY LOCKED. What is a welded diff other than a fully locked diff??? And actually a welded diff may be better for drifting because it is more predictable than a LSD. Yes it will suck at autocross and at the race track. But my car is not a track car. I can tolerate tire chirps and understeer when daily driving and I wear my rears to cords in months anyways from peg legging so much (yes you can drift with an open diff if you know how, you just can't hold it as long) so I don't mind the tire wear. I do like being able to drift my car and have it more stable and predictable. Also if you put a bolt through the diff and have a pro welder do the job will be just as strong if not stronger than most LSD are. End of story.

BTW, pro drift RX-7 with welded diff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50P5niOYCj0

Also I do plan on doing a viscous out of a J30 when I can afford it. But for $50 a welded is definately looking worth the money right now. But not till I get my sway bars.

 

[sucahyo]

interested in this .

I do LSD test on GT2, but I believe this should be true for GT3 and GT4 too, as the stock GT4 skyline GTS-T type M R32 LSD has the same value as GT2 Mazda RX7 LSD.

GT2 RX7 LSD
stock    : 5/20/10 (initial/accel/decel)
1-Way    : 10/40/0
2-Way    : 10/40/40
1.5-Way  : 10/40/20
FC defa  : 10/40/20
FC min   : 5/5/5
FC max   : 60/60/60

sport car usually have some value in LSD, K-car don't. Some car even have huge (80) value stock (forget which). FF and 4WD has higher initial LSD. FR and MR has LSD dist of 1.5 Way LSD.
FC LSD is better because you can have higher LSD value than even a 2-Way LSD.

so, stock car can have LSD too and its value is different on every model. I don't test many car so I don't know wether different car have different value for non FC LSD. It seem to be the same for every car.

 

[LastHours]

Yes indeed. Or at least, go with a viscous, if you don't want to spend a bunch of money, right away. I bought a JDM VLSD with JDM 5 bolt axles (internals were brand new, in a used pumpkin) for $250... I installed it myself, and boy what a difference. Now that I have the JDM pumpkin, and the longer JDM axles, the switch to clutch type internals (probably Kaaz) will be a snap. I already have my Kaaz on it's way from Japan. Although, it will be a few months, untill I can install it into my pumpkin, because I have a lot of other work to do to the car first (suspension work)... As Last Hours said, the LSD is meant to give a vehicle MORE grip, which is what is needed in drifting. Many people have this weird idea, that drifting is about losing grip. This is not the case. Drifting is about utilizing varying degrees of grip to hold your car in a variety of angles and speeds... The LSD can make it initialy more difficult to start a drift (at least, through power over), but once the tires break loose, you have a lot more control over the vehicles speed and trajectory.

You said it brother.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Um.......sorry DR, normally your really smart, but I know LSD's and I know drifting and I have to now use the NICO community to PWN Your ARSE!!!



He was responding to a tard who new nothing about drifting who was saying it was retarded to put Welded diffs on a drift car but I couldn't have said it much better myself.

Whith a 2-way LSD it will act EXACTLY like a welded diff while drifting because you are always wheelspinning or locking the rear end. In both of these situations the 2-way will remain FULLY LOCKED. What is a welded diff other than a fully locked diff??? And actually a welded diff may be better for drifting because it is more predictable than a LSD. Yes it will suck at autocross and at the race track. But my car is not a track car. I can tolerate tire chirps and understeer when daily driving and I wear my rears to cords in months anyways from peg legging so much (yes you can drift with an open diff if you know how, you just can't hold it as long) so I don't mind the tire wear. I do like being able to drift my car and have it more stable and predictable. Also if you put a bolt through the diff and have a pro welder do the job IT WILL NOT BREAK. End of story.

BTW, pro drift RX-7 with welded diff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50P5niOYCj0

Also I do plan on doing a viscous out of a J30 when I can afford it. But for $50 a welded is definately looking worth the money right now. But not till I get my sway bars.

Did I miss something... How exactly did you "PWN" me?... Nothing you quoted went against anything I said... A 2 way clutch type diff is only fully locked when traction is broken... Whereas a welded diff is always locked... I prefer a proper LSD... I'm not just a drifter... That would be boring, in my opinion...

If you want to weld your diff, go ahead... A lot of people do... I would much rather go with a clutch type LSD, as I do mind understeer and tire chirping in daily driving situations... I race my car on the track, as well as drift... A welded diff is pretty useless in grip situations...

Also if you put a bolt through the diff and have a pro welder do the job IT WILL NOT BREAK. End of story.

You're fooling yourself bro... There are no guaranties in racing/drifting... Such events put a lot of stress on your car... I have seen things break, that were supposed to be bulletproof...

Have a nice day...

 

[LastHours]

Also if you put a bolt through the diff and have a pro welder do the job IT WILL NOT BREAK. End of story.

All I have to say is, I've seen too many welded diffs go to crap. I am not bashing on you. You just have to realize that when you pay for something, you are getting what you paid for. Sure a welded diff is good for super Initial D dorifto action, but it wont last as long.

 

[Swift]

Man, there are better conversations in this forum then in the GT4 drifting forums. Scary thought.

 

[rsmithdrift]

Did I miss something... How exactly did you "PWN" me?... Nothing you quoted went against anything I said... A 2 way clutch type diff is only fully locked when traction is broken... Whereas a welded diff is always locked... I prefer a proper LSD... I'm not just a drifter... That would be boring, in my opinion...

If you want to weld your diff, go ahead... A lot of people do... I would much rather go with a clutch type LSD, as I do mind understeer and tire chirping in daily driving situations... I race my car on the track, as well as drift... A welded diff is pretty useless in grip situations...



You're fooling yourself bro... There are no guaranties in racing/drifting... Such events put a lot of stress on your car... I have seen things break, that were supposed to be bulletproof...

Have a nice day...

Now that I look back at it I just explained a part you didn't go into. For some reason I took your post as saying that a Weldlock diff is bad for drifting, but now I see you weren't saying that so much as you were just saying a 2way is more reliable. And it probably is despite it having to be rebuilt ALOT on drift cars. But hey, what I and naed said is true so doesn't hurt to post it haha.

And the welds make all the diference in the world in this because if you weld it too hot it'll weaken the structure but too cold and it won't have strong enough welds.......But not even a 2 way will stay together in a crash.....that's all I'm saying with that.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Man, there are better conversations in this forum then in the GT4 drifting forums. Scary thought.

That's cause the purists tend to flock to these ‘dead’ forums such as GT3.

 

[Swift]

That's cause the purists tend to flock to these ‘dead’ forums such as GT3.

This is apparently true. 👍