Mad FinnTuners Co. - Finished 301010 with GT-Rdammerung - BIG THANKS everyone!
- Thread starter Greycap
- 3,787 comments
- 563,044 views
- Status
- 5,969
- Finland
Rotary Junkie - I've never understood the slamming, first it indeed makes the car look awful with wheels buried in the fenders, even protruding through them when turning, but it also affects the handling negatively. Now the weight can rock around more freely, helping to get the mass around the corners in a true muscle car style.
spauldj3800 - Thanks! Maybe, maybe not. I doubt it though but you never know.
adamgp - That's called customizing with the game imposing the limits. Sure, an old school NASCAR type aero package with a front spoiler and a small rear flap - or an adjustable stock wing - would have looked better but they didn't give us the chance to use those so I picked something that suits the colour scheme as there truely is a need for downforce. The same goes with the wheels, the classic style racing wheels are quite seriously in a short supply in the game so I picked something that suits the colour scheme. And you can't deny that modern alloys are better for racing than old timer steelies.
spauldj3800 - Thanks! Maybe, maybe not. I doubt it though but you never know.
adamgp - That's called customizing with the game imposing the limits. Sure, an old school NASCAR type aero package with a front spoiler and a small rear flap - or an adjustable stock wing - would have looked better but they didn't give us the chance to use those so I picked something that suits the colour scheme as there truely is a need for downforce. The same goes with the wheels, the classic style racing wheels are quite seriously in a short supply in the game so I picked something that suits the colour scheme. And you can't deny that modern alloys are better for racing than old timer steelies.
- 420
- n/a
- n/a
I think they always have a good musclecar style set of rims in the used wheels. Ive never noticed any differences in car performance between new and old though....
We SHOULD have flap-spoilers, they might in GT5, probably not though, would be great fro the 100m challenge though.
We SHOULD have flap-spoilers, they might in GT5, probably not though, would be great fro the 100m challenge though.
- 7,313
- Land of the smelly onion
Greycap I was merely voicing an opinion. Its your car, you can do whatever you want to it.
I agree though, I wish they would have put the option for a NASCAR style decklid/ducktail spoiler which wouldn't look so out of place on old muscle cars. They did offer a (small) selection of muscle car wheels though.
I agree though, I wish they would have put the option for a NASCAR style decklid/ducktail spoiler which wouldn't look so out of place on old muscle cars. They did offer a (small) selection of muscle car wheels though.
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
Good to see you are finally realising that there's more to muscle than the drag strip. I look forward to racing you guys in the full GT5. (Unless Greycap wants to race me again on GT5
, I'll be ready this time, I'm getting very good at the pro physics, but not masterful good- you need a wheel for that, and super hero powers )
, I'll be ready this time, I'm getting very good at the pro physics, but not masterful good- you need a wheel for that, and super hero powers )
- 5,969
- Finland
The car really could have used a front spoiler to enhance the looks, the stock rear wing would have done just well if it was adjustable. Fortunately the wing doesn't look too bad on the 'Cuda, the Chevelle might just take the victory in that area.
It's a shame that all the muscle car wheels (from the 'Cuda itself, Chevelle and Mustang if my memory works) are street wheels, that's also why I didn't want to fit any of them as they wouldn't be an improvement in the word's true meaning. Racing cars need racing wheels. Some old NASCAR style steelies in a few colours would be great but what can we do.
But you're right, it's my car and the end result (in my eyes at least) is quite a successful combination of classic and modern, street and track. It looks business-like and that's what counts. And it goes even faster than it looks, that time on the banner is very real.
I don't actually who that drag strip thing was actually aimed at but indeed, these cars have a lot of forgotten potential as can see from the lap times. The mighty R32 almost fell to the 'Cuda.
It's a shame that all the muscle car wheels (from the 'Cuda itself, Chevelle and Mustang if my memory works) are street wheels, that's also why I didn't want to fit any of them as they wouldn't be an improvement in the word's true meaning. Racing cars need racing wheels. Some old NASCAR style steelies in a few colours would be great but what can we do.
But you're right, it's my car and the end result (in my eyes at least) is quite a successful combination of classic and modern, street and track. It looks business-like and that's what counts. And it goes even faster than it looks, that time on the banner is very real.
I don't actually who that drag strip thing was actually aimed at but indeed, these cars have a lot of forgotten potential as can see from the lap times. The mighty R32 almost fell to the 'Cuda.
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
It was aimed at MFT, especially Leo and his V8 hating ways. Until he realises these engines, despite design, can stomp many other engines, and are actually very good engines (especially the new age ones), my respect for him just can't be as high as I'd like it to be- sorry. That doesn't mean I think you're an idiot Leo, it just means that I don't think as highly of you as I could. I show respect for other cars that have proven results, even if they're not my cup of tea beer. I wish that the people of GTP could show that same respect for the cars I like.
Until he realises these engines, despite design, can stomp many other engines, and are actually very good engines (especially the new age ones), my respect for him just can't be as high as I'd like it to be- sorry. That doesn't mean I think you're an idiot Leo, it just means that I don't think as highly of you as I could. I show respect for other cars that have proven results, even if they're not my cup of
- 5,969
- Finland
Well, let's face a few facts so we might understand why he thinks as he does.
It can't be denied that a six litre V8 with 400 bhp is powerful but at the same time it can't be denied that the same power could easily have been made by a forced induction three litre V6, even a two litre inline four. Both of the latters weigh the same or even less than the V8, have smaller dimensions and consume less fuel when the full power isn't needed. Yes, they probably have less low down torque - not necessarily though, just look at WRC cars - but does it really matter? My own car has a very modest peak figure of 185 Nm at 2300 rpm and it gets me around just fine.
The point: yes, you can go fast with a V8 but no, you don't need a V8 to go fast.
It can't be denied that a six litre V8 with 400 bhp is powerful but at the same time it can't be denied that the same power could easily have been made by a forced induction three litre V6, even a two litre inline four. Both of the latters weigh the same or even less than the V8, have smaller dimensions and consume less fuel when the full power isn't needed. Yes, they probably have less low down torque - not necessarily though, just look at WRC cars - but does it really matter? My own car has a very modest peak figure of 185 Nm at 2300 rpm and it gets me around just fine.
The point: yes, you can go fast with a V8 but no, you don't need a V8 to go fast.
Leonidae
(Banned)
- 6,881
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
1. I do NOT dislike V8's.
2. I do dislike pushrods/OHV.
I hope that this makes my opinion clear. And Greycaps explanation brings out why I think like this. Next time, check your facts/prejudices before you accuse anyone else of them. And if you don't mind, this thread is NOT a place for this discussion.
OHV lovers say that it's better because lower COG of the engine. Well, guess what Boxer engine has? yup, even lower center of gravity. in addition, modern boxer engines have DOHC, which doesn't restrain the revving like the extra reciprocating masses of OHV-design eventually do by causing additional friction. and then there's VVT.. only one significant american sportscar has utilized this in it's OHV engine AS FAR AS I KNOW.. and it's Viper V10.
2. I do dislike pushrods/OHV.
I hope that this makes my opinion clear. And Greycaps explanation brings out why I think like this. Next time, check your facts/prejudices before you accuse anyone else of them. And if you don't mind, this thread is NOT a place for this discussion.
OHV lovers say that it's better because lower COG of the engine. Well, guess what Boxer engine has? yup, even lower center of gravity. in addition, modern boxer engines have DOHC, which doesn't restrain the revving like the extra reciprocating masses of OHV-design eventually do by causing additional friction. and then there's VVT.. only one significant american sportscar has utilized this in it's OHV engine AS FAR AS I KNOW.. and it's Viper V10.
- 3,202
- Philippines
- skygrasper_550--
so, are you Finns ready for my request car?? well, the car is already in front of you.
please highlight text
it's the car in my avatar 👍
please highlight text
it's the car in my avatar 👍
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
*clears throat*
DOHC valvetrains have more rotating mass than an OHV setup.
NOTICEABLY more. Three extra camshafts and 2 valves a cylinder extra. Longer timing chains/belts.
Also... Once upon a time, there was a 5-liter V8 that had a rev limiter... To save the BELTS, not the engine. Boss 302. 302 block, Cleveland closed-chamber heads.
A good OHV setup can and will rev; but most use hydraulic lifters and don't like to go above 6k.
And if OHC valvetrains are so good for revving the crap out of... Why don't they in anything over 4L or so of displacement from the factory?
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
I took it to PM, but this isn't an OHC vs OHV debate, obviously both can be awesome as represented by vehicle manufacturers and race series. It's more the fact that Leo/others on GTP doesn't acknowledge that OHV even comes close to good, not a problem in its own right. The problem lies where I have copped many a snide comments from Leo/others on GTP on this topic, and it gets on my nerve a little.
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
- 5,969
- Finland
Add to the mix the question of which has a heavier valvetrain, OHV or SOHC. The same amount of camshafts, the same amount of valves, the same amount of valve springs. The downside of SOHC is the slightly higher CoG and the longer cam belts (or chains) but on the upside it has less parts as there are no pushrods and thus the reciprocating mass indeed is lower, leading to less vibrations, less counterweights, and eventually a lighter and more efficient engine. There is a reason to why pushrod engines are almost completely gone nowadays in "normal" cars, OHC is better. Given about a decade of continuous development it would be better in those big V8 engines too but it's not done as it would take time and money and the current system works well enough. That's the problem actually, the "well enough" way of thinking prevents improvement.
One thing about rotating vs. reciprocating masses and which one is worse. Take a shot (the metal ball the big guys make fly 20+ metres in the track and field events) and put it on the floor. Make it spin. Notice how much power you need to make it spin at around 100 rpm, well, not much. Pick it up, take a firm grip and rock it back a hundred times a minute and forth again a hundred times a minute. I bet you need more force to do the latter.
So much for the technical lesson again. I think we now have realized that the V8 people will never understand how their engine might be inferior to something else, as well as that the non-V8 people will never understand how the V8 might be better than anything else. So let's stop this stupidity here, we're not getting anywhere. Towards a ban at most but I don't think that's what we want.
One thing about rotating vs. reciprocating masses and which one is worse. Take a shot (the metal ball the big guys make fly 20+ metres in the track and field events) and put it on the floor. Make it spin. Notice how much power you need to make it spin at around 100 rpm, well, not much. Pick it up, take a firm grip and rock it back a hundred times a minute and forth again a hundred times a minute. I bet you need more force to do the latter.
So much for the technical lesson again. I think we now have realized that the V8 people will never understand how their engine might be inferior to something else, as well as that the non-V8 people will never understand how the V8 might be better than anything else. So let's stop this stupidity here, we're not getting anywhere. Towards a ban at most but I don't think that's what we want.
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
Issue was resolved by PM, apparently Leonidae and I were never meant to be friendly with each other from the start, which saddens me. I thought you were better than that mate, but I was wrong, I seeked out your recognition, because I thought you were better than others I know, but instead you beat me down with a woooden plank.
Edit: But that's the problem Greycap, I do acknowledge how both can be freaking awesome, and how they both present advantages, and I wanted to receive the same respect from my supposed friends that I gave, but I couldn't even get that.
Edit: But that's the problem Greycap, I do acknowledge how both can be freaking awesome, and how they both present advantages, and I wanted to receive the same respect from my supposed friends that I gave, but I couldn't even get that.
young man.. get yourself MSN and we'll talk face to face, okay? and this thread really isn't a place for a message like that. I've had enough of internet drama today.
- 5,969
- Finland
PM's have been dealt from my part also. Two guys debating over opinions, seriously! They shouldn't even be argued, let alone taken to the current level.
And I can't deny that the man above is right. This thread really isn't the place for that. We have PM's to work things out, we have such things as MSN and AIM, so this thread can be kept clean of things that don't belong here. From now on we'll ignore any remains of the debate posted here. Feel free to PM, feel free to make contact using whatever means you have in your disposal, but keep this thread clean of the "my opinion is worth more than yours, you suck" garbage. Everyone's opinion is to be respected. It applies to both sides.
On to a new page. Let's act like gentlemen, or at least try to, and leave this here.
And I can't deny that the man above is right. This thread really isn't the place for that. We have PM's to work things out, we have such things as MSN and AIM, so this thread can be kept clean of things that don't belong here. From now on we'll ignore any remains of the debate posted here. Feel free to PM, feel free to make contact using whatever means you have in your disposal, but keep this thread clean of the "my opinion is worth more than yours, you suck" garbage. Everyone's opinion is to be respected. It applies to both sides.
On to a new page. Let's act like gentlemen, or at least try to, and leave this here.
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
Well in that case, I was quite surprised how fast you made those old schoolers.
Not many cars of that vintage could go that fast but you somehow did it.
Not many cars of that vintage could go that fast but you somehow did it.
- 736
MFT's output at the moment is insane. I made notes for one car, but before I could review it there was another that I had to drive, then another that i had trouble with, then another that I'd always wanted to do. So I have about 10 pages of reviewing notes, four fantastic cars, but no time to work on my own tunes. CURSES!
Four reviews are coming (when I get the time). Raiden, Baron, Chevelle and Jensen
Four reviews are coming (when I get the time). Raiden, Baron, Chevelle and Jensen
- 5,969
- Finland
nd 4 holden spd - I have to say that the 'Cuda surprised even me. I was expecting to break 1'45, but not by much. It just, well, worked. The speed comes slightly at the expense of handling though but it's still fully drivable if the driver knows how to master it.
PF - Jensen?
What Jensen... we don't have one. I built one some time ago but it never made it to the public. I wonder what you mean. But please, go ahead with the reviews!
gdmatt - No. It's such an oddball model that it may even stay out. Moreover it's been confirmed to handle a lot better in the game than in real life so it's a bit of a cheater car, we would need something else along those lines to accompany it. But nothing is for certain until we close the doors so don't lose your hope just yet.
PF - Jensen?
What Jensen... we don't have one. I built one some time ago but it never made it to the public. I wonder what you mean. But please, go ahead with the reviews!gdmatt - No. It's such an oddball model that it may even stay out. Moreover it's been confirmed to handle a lot better in the game than in real life so it's a bit of a cheater car, we would need something else along those lines to accompany it. But nothing is for certain until we close the doors so don't lose your hope just yet.
- 3,202
- Philippines
- skygrasper_550--
i think my post pertaining to my request car was overlooked, because of the debate.., oh never mind..,
- 3,202
- Philippines
- skygrasper_550--
^^oh i see.., the car that you did was a regular EK9, i'm requesting for the Spoon version.., AND since you like Civics so much i'd like you to tune it for me.., i want all of these factors in my car:
-eliminate as much wheelspin and understeer as possible
**must be faster than stock version whilst having minimal wheelspin (no oil change please)
**reduced understeer especially at high speeds
-feel free to use all available tuning options (suspension, LSD, tranny, even the ballast)
this is my favorite car, for me this car is the best.., and i want only the best to tune it for me.., 👍
*edit: the second factor for the Spoon tune
i'd like you to tune it for me.., i want all of these factors in my car:-eliminate as much wheelspin and understeer as possible
**must be faster than stock version whilst having minimal wheelspin (no oil change please
)**reduced understeer especially at high speeds
-feel free to use all available tuning options (suspension, LSD, tranny, even the ballast)
this is my favorite car, for me this car is the best.., and i want only the best to tune it for me.., 👍
*edit: the second factor for the Spoon tune
- Status
