Mass shooting at Madden tournament in Jacksonville

  • Thread starter PzR Slim
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This is terrifying. A witness in one of the news articles reported that the shooter was a player who raged at losing a game and pulled the gun.
 
This is terrifying. A witness in one of the news articles reported that the shooter was a player who raged at losing a game and pulled the gun.

Not that any other scenario makes this better but I beg for this to not be true.
 
Someone sadly took ragequit to a new level (extreme macabre). The guy clearly had a plan all along to go out like this if he lost, which means he should have never have been eligible to play in the first place.
 
Someone sadly took ragequit to a new level (extreme macabre). The guy clearly had a plan all along to go out like this if he lost, which means he should have never have been eligible to play in the first place.
Psych test mandatory for all gaming competitions?

EDIT: Small consolation but the death toll is now reduced to 2 from the original 3 victims of the shooter. The shooter apparently committed suicide according to reports.
 
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Just awful. :(

Considering all of the talk from politicians about how the wall is needed because an illegal immigrant murdered a woman in Iowa last month, I imagine an equally hard-nosed line on guns, with two shootings and multiple dead within just days of each other in Florida. Wait...

If the shooter really is one of the other players in the tournament, the media is going to have a field day with it.
 
Someone sadly took ragequit to a new level (extreme macabre). The guy clearly had a plan all along to go out like this if he lost, which means he should have never have been eligible to play in the first place.

I heard he went back to his car to get the gun, so it doesn’t sound like he had that plan when he first entered.
 
I heard he went back to his car to get the gun, so it doesn’t sound like he had that plan when he first entered.
Or he didn't want to have the gun with him while he was gaming. Or maybe it was a "gun free" zone and he didn't want to get caught with it until he was actually going to use it. There are lots of possibilities. I saw an interview of him at another competition. He came across as a mix of Adam Lanza and Lloyd Christmas.
 
Maybe it's time for e-sports competitors to be vetted much like other professional sportsman are (drugs, pych tests etc).
I agree. In a day and age when anybody can get hold of deadly weapons like cars and guns (and lately drones and computers), everybody should be raised to be mutually respectful, temperate, placid, peaceful, and non-violent. This is the goal of civilization. But not anytime soon.
 
Maybe it's time for e-sports competitors to be vetted much like other professional sportsman are (drugs, pych tests etc).

I agree. In a day and age when anybody can get hold of deadly weapons like cars and guns (and lately drones and computers), everybody should be raised to be mutually respectful, temperate, placid, peaceful, and non-violent. This is the goal of civilization. But not anytime soon.

I think any player that earns money with a 'sport' should be checked for performance increasing drugs/hardware that would be deemed illegal. Vetted for physical and psychological things only if there is a direct risk to the player and competitors health.

But isn't it weird that there are calls to ask for psychological tests to play games... shouldn't we ask ourselfs how thes people wouldn't have the ability to get a weapon? I don't know.how the guy got 5he weapon or if it was his. But I really think the playing of the game is not the issue here. The issue would be that a ****tard that's ok with killing people for whatever reason was able to get a weapon.
 
I think any player that earns money with a 'sport' should be checked for performance increasing drugs/hardware that would be deemed illegal. Vetted for physical and psychological things only if there is a direct risk to the player and competitors health.

But isn't it weird that there are calls to ask for psychological tests to play games... shouldn't we ask ourselfs how thes people wouldn't have the ability to get a weapon? I don't know.how the guy got 5he weapon or if it was his. But I really think the playing of the game is not the issue here. The issue would be that a ****tard that's ok with killing people for whatever reason was able to get a weapon.
How hard should be the boot that stamps down on society in order to limit its worst impulses?
 
Couldn't sleep this morning over thinking of this incident. Gaming is supposed to bring people together instead of pulling us apart.

The consistancy of mass shootings in the US gets more and more disturbing to me. Sometimes I wonder, will my location be next? It's so scary.
 
How hard should be the boot that stamps down on society in order to limit its worst impulses?

Why would it be ok to stop those people from gaming in a contest but not to stop them from owning a gun?

That's my main issue with this statement of vetting gamers. Why would it be ok to vet people harder to be allowed to enter a gaming contest then they should be to own a gun?

Also how is the boot coming down on society? If you're not a person with spychomogical problem you'd still be able to buy the gun.
And if you say but we wouldn't have found out then why would it have been found in the vetting proces to be allowed to game in a contest?

It's hard to bring up regulation on guns but it isn't to do the same for entering a competition?

Edit: the (worst) typo's
 
The two deceased have been identified as players Taylor Robertson (Twitter: spotmeplzz), 27, and Eli Clayton (Twitter: True__818), 22.

The shooter was identified as David Katz.

What gets me is we saw True's last few moments in the twitch stream that's been going around. He was the fella in the red hoodie.
 
I think any player that earns money with a 'sport' should be checked for performance increasing drugs/hardware that would be deemed illegal. Vetted for physical and psychological things only if there is a direct risk to the player and competitors health.

But isn't it weird that there are calls to ask for psychological tests to play games... shouldn't we ask ourselfs how thes people wouldn't have the ability to get a weapon? I don't know.how the guy got 5he weapon or if it was his. But I really think the playing of the game is not the issue here. The issue would be that a ****tard that's ok with killing people for whatever reason was able to get a weapon.
One wonders if whatever was wrong in his brain connections that would lead him to do something like this, would even show up on a psych exam. I expect it'll come out that he was a loner, played video games for hours and hours every day, had few if any friends, had issues with his parents etc. There are probably millions of young kids like that in the U.S. today. How do we know which ones will pull the trigger?
 
But isn't it weird that there are calls to ask for psychological tests to play games... shouldn't we ask ourselfs how thes people wouldn't have the ability to get a weapon? I don't know.how the guy got 5he weapon or if it was his. But I really think the playing of the game is not the issue here. The issue would be that a ****tard that's ok with killing people for whatever reason was able to get a weapon.

I think the game and the competitive element might bring out the worst in a person, especially with someone who is teetering on doing something bad.

So in a normal situation this guy might not have posed a threat owning a gun but this competition brought out aggression which may have lead this outcome.

His right to own a weapon is separate from the circumstances that it was used in because there appears to be no red flags other than those previously seen in his behaviour in other tournaments. Competitive gaming seems to change him therefore he should be vetted to compete in them.

Don't get me wrong, I think they should tightly control who they give guns to but this appears to be very much a case of a person that should not be competiting in something that enrages them when they lose.
 
One wonders if whatever was wrong in his brain connections that would lead him to do something like this, would even show up on a psych exam. I expect it'll come out that he was a loner, played video games for hours and hours every day, had few if any friends, had issues with his parents etc. There are probably millions of young kids like that in the U.S. today. How do we know which ones will pull the trigger?

Agreed. But that's what I don't get about the vetting process for gaming as a 'solution'. You claim he would've not been spotted by the system in place for guns, then why would he have been spotted by the vetting process for the tournament?
By now I understand that vetting people to own weapons got it's drawbacks. But then I don't understand how th vetting process for entering the tourney would've.

I think the game and the competitive element might bring out the worst in a person, especially with someone who is teetering on doing something bad.

So in a normal situation this guy might not have posed a threat owning a gun but this competition brought out aggression which may have lead this outcome.

His right to own a weapon is separate from the circumstances that it was used in because there appears to be no red flags other than those previously seen in his behaviour in other tournaments. Competitive gaming seems to change him therefore he should be vetted to compete in them.

Don't get me wrong, I think they should tightly control who they give guns to but this appears to be very much a case of a person that should not be competiting in something that enrages them when they lose.

Shouldn't not having such a person own a gun be the correct answer?
Ooh no he's not dangerous as long as he keeps his temper. What if he got in a traffic incident? He'd be a liability with a gun in that scenario. So if we then continu the logic proposed he should be vetted for that too. And if we continue with all the things making him more dangerous it probably would be more efficient (and imo more correct) to do the vetting process for buying the gun?

I don't accept him owning a gun is not an issue as long as he wouldn't game competetivly.

As for personal experience (which is interesting but worthless as evidence): I'm a very competetive person when playing (sports/games) I'm bad at accepting a loss when I lost it due to not being on my game.
I'll walk out after the game and get some fresh air to process my disapointment. I'd be ok with not owning a gun, I wouldn't with not being able to play competive games. They're my outlet. I never hit someone, I don't become agressive but you can see I'm mad as hell and I prefer to be alone for a few minutes.
I don't have this every loss, like I said it's when I'm dissapointed in my own performance. But would I be a person you'd stop from gaming? If yes why? Why limit my freedom? I don't harm someone I'm just agrevated due to disapointment.
 
Agreed. But that's what I don't get about the vetting process for gaming as a 'solution'. You claim he would've not been spotted by the system in place for guns, then why would he have been spotted by the vetting process for the tournament?
By now I understand that vetting people to own weapons got it's drawbacks. But then I don't understand how th vetting process for entering the tourney would've.
Is this for someone else? I at no time claimed he wouldn't be spotted by the system in place for vetting gun owners. I said I wonder if he would be identified by the system or not which is a completely different statement.


Shouldn't not having such a person own a gun be the correct answer?
In hindsight the obvious answer is yes. The question is how to we identify this type of person to begin with? Is there a rigourous enough psych test that would identify a potential shooter and be able to separate that type of person from someone who just gets angry, yells and screams, makes faces and pouts a lot? How do we encourage/coerce/force a free people to submit to such testing? Who decides the consequences of a negative test and how is it enforced? I'd imagine the latter and the former type of gamer (angry gamer vs. shooter gamer) appear quite similar to most people and that the latter outnumber the former by millions to one.
 
It's weird, I haven't seen a mention by any website about the toxicity of the banter that typically takes place within some eSport communities. You would think that people would shelve their online persona when they meet face to face, but some of the behavior I've seen from "professional" live gamers is as juvenile and stupid as the banter you hear in a random online game. Some would argue that such banter is essential for an engaging competitive environment but I'll leave that debate for another day.

I don't know if someone incited the shooter here (there's a rumor that he got into a heated argument the day prior or so) and by no means is this an excuse or attempt to shift blame, but I'd imagine that having the event organizers curtailing that sort of behavior, just out of civility, would be a good idea.
 
It's weird, I haven't seen a mention by any website about the toxicity of the banter that typically takes place within some eSport communities. You would think that people would shelve their online persona when they meet face to face, but some of the behavior I've seen from "professional" live gamers is as juvenile and stupid as the banter you hear in a random online game. Some would argue that such banter is essential for an engaging competitive environment but I'll leave that debate for another day.

I don't know if someone incited the shooter here (there's a rumor that he got into a heated argument the day prior or so) and by no means is this an excuse or attempt to shift blame, but I'd imagine that having the event organizers curtailing that sort of behavior, just out of civility, would be a good idea.
I've heard audio of a shouting match in the background of a twitch stream that allegedly involved the shooter and one of the victims but of course it's not verified yet. Apparently both of the victims, Elijah Clayton and Taylor Robertson, were quite successful gamers, one having won the Madden tournament the year before.
 
It's weird, I haven't seen a mention by any website about the toxicity of the banter that typically takes place within some eSport communities. You would think that people would shelve their online persona when they meet face to face, but some of the behavior I've seen from "professional" live gamers is as juvenile and stupid as the banter you hear in a random online game. Some would argue that such banter is essential for an engaging competitive environment but I'll leave that debate for another day.

Why would toxic banter get a mention specifically for e-Sports? Is it really any different to competitive soccer, Gaelic football, rugby, cricket or many other sports? Ever been to a dance festival? Middle-class mothers are as toxic as it gets.

Toxic 'bants' are (and always have been) the norm behind any sport's public facade. It's irrelevant in this context because toxic banter does not automatically lead to producing a gun and shooting people dead. Being an arsehole is what makes that happen.
 
Why would toxic banter get a mention specifically for e-Sports? Is it really any different to competitive soccer, Gaelic football, rugby, cricket or many other sports? Ever been to a dance festival? Middle-class mothers are as toxic as it gets.

Toxic 'bants' are (and always have been) the norm behind any sport's public facade. It's irrelevant in this context because toxic banter does not automatically lead to producing a gun and shooting people dead. Being an arsehole is what makes that happen.
As someone who loves trashtalking I think the one obvious difference is that someone who plays competitive real, live sports has had years and years of dealing with banter. We trash talked as kids playing hockey and football and it's something you expect and get used to. Now playing pickup on a Saturday night with guys who have been trashtalking for 40 years is quite entertaining to say the least. You have to have a thick skin because there is literally no subject that is taboo in a hockey locker room. But gaming online is a solo sport and you never have to face your opponents until it comes to one of these live tournaments. So you grow up winning a lot but being alone the vast majority of the time, never learning to deal with people face to face and when you are used to winning and talking trash on your own and then come face to face with someone better than you getting all up in your grill and you don't have the experience or social skills to deal with it. In the end it makes him it still makes him an arsehole of course but the reasons why this happened probably revolve around underdeveloped social skills, bullying, being a loner, socially awkward etc. Not an uncommon theme for these crazy shoot-em-up types.
 
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