massacre at haditha

[vladimir]

i'm surprised there is no thread on this issue yet.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/IraqCoverage/story?id=2015052&page=1

what do you think?

 

[Div is back]

The war has taken its toll on the moral and the motivations of the troops...Very sad but predictable.

 

[Kent]

Wow, I clicked the link and in the title the world "alleged" was the first thing I saw.

Sad but predictable.

 

[Carl.]

So therefore that must be false? I guess this is just another attempt to undermine the war effort by the leftist media using false information then? Sad but indeed, predictable.

A Pentagon probe into the death of Iraqi civilians last November in the Iraqi city of Haditha will show that U.S. Marines "killed innocent civilians in cold blood," a U.S. lawmaker said Wednesday.

Here, perhaps the news will be more "credible" coming from that source...

 

[YSSMAN]

I've been following the story loosely over the past few days, and it seems as though ABC and CBS have really portrayed the Marines as "evil-doers" who purposely killed all of the people in residence of the particular home. I'm standing in the middle of what is being reported, and I don't like what I'm hearing from either side.

I think it is completely within reason to belive that something happened that wassent good, but what exactly that is might not ne known for some time. If it was a group of Marines who did do it, you can sure as hell bet that they will be prosecuted in the fullest extent of the law, and it will be another black mark to add to the reputation of the United States in the Middle East.

...It would suprise me if there is not some sort of explanation to what happened, but I doubt very much that it will be a great one. Although I really do not want to think about Americans killing innocent civilians in the way that we did in Vietnam, it is something that was bound to happen, and hopefully after the truth comes out, we can find if there is a better way to make sure it never happens again.

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

'
This is speculative

If i were a Marine, reared on war movies, doubtless it would be my culture to get a little 'gook' action. Nothing to be ashamed of amongst the rank and file, just those pesky media & Michael.J.Fox types that like to ruin the fun, is all.

 

[Speedy Samurai]

If it was a group of Marines who did do it, you can sure as hell bet that they will be prosecuted in the fullest extent of the law..

like in My Lai?

 

[Duke]

'
This is speculative

If i were a Marine, reared on war movies, doubtless it would be my culture to get a little 'gook' action. Nothing to be ashamed of amongst the rank and file, just those pesky media & Michael.J.Fox types that like to ruin the fun, is all.

You have the right to say it, but I find this post disgusting.

Of course, any army from any nation is likely to have some bad soldiers in it. But you're suggesting this is a way of life and an attitude common to US Marines.

I find that suggestion despicable.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I do think that it is entirely possible that it could be faked. All it takes is a small community sympathetic to the insurgents cause.

If it's true though, it may show that the troops are reaching the end of their tethers in Iraq. And who can blame them. The thing is, if this repeats itself it could result in mass riots/attacks against the coalition troops.

 

[ledhed]

I have been following this story since NOVEMBER....its still under investigation because they want the charges to STICK ...and there seems to be enough proof that the navy wants to get it right . Why is it news when the US does the right things and prosecutes criminal actions in a time of war ?

And why is so suprising that now that elections are comming up the idiot scumbags would sacrifice anyone and everybody to advance their adgenda ?

This story has been around ...so why the sudden " SPOTLIGHT "

Gullible idiots ......so easily taken in and made to be tools . Thats why .
Google the story and follow the time line ..you will see its never really been out of the news...now notice how close we are to ELECTION time ...

Now break out the hype machine and jump aboard like the puppet masters demand of you .

 

[YSSMAN]

like in My Lai?

I wouldn't be so fast in condeming the American millitary Mr. Japan...

I seem to recall events such as the The Rape of Nanking, The Sook Ching Massacre, etc. Do you seriously think the Chinese will ever forgive Japan for what happened in World War II?

 

[ledhed]

Every indication is that something criminal did happen and that in the next two weeks charges will be made and a report on the investigation will be made public. The guilty will be punished .

 

[ledhed]

The war has taken its toll on the moral and the motivations of the troops...Very sad but predictable.

What unit are serving in ? And how is it you speak for the " troops " ?

 

[Speedy Samurai]

I wouldn't be so fast in condeming the American millitary Mr. Japan...

I seem to recall events such as the The Rape of Nanking, The Sook Ching Massacre, etc. Do you seriously think the Chinese will ever forgive Japan for what happened in World War II?

No the chinese and koreans have every right to hold a grudge. And, I am canadian. Nice rebuttal, though.

 

[Small_Fryz]

The war has taken its toll on the moral and the motivations of the troops...Very sad but predictable.

What unit are serving in ? And how is it you speak for the " troops " ?

yeah where is your proof that war lowers morale? I couldnt possibly imagine how war would be bad and lower ones morale. If i was fighting a war i would be so happy and jubilent, bouncing around day and night with a massive smile on my face.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Three or four soldiers did wrong. It's being handled. What the hell more do people want?

Please, keep your anti American, anti war, anti military and anti Bush comments to yourself. We don't need to hear that crap anymore. It gets nothing done.

And movies about war always tell the truth...

 

[Swift]

It's a sick twisted occurence. But it doesn't mean the entire military is a corrupt entity. It means that there are some people that got too emotional and took it out on those that weren't even responsible.

 

[Sphinx]

Three or four soldiers did wrong. It's being handled. What the hell more do people want?

The truth from the start?

 

[ledhed]

The truth from the start?

You want the truth ? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH !!!


You dont want the truth ..you want to be led around by your nose and told what the truth is .

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

You have the right to say it, but I find this post disgusting.

Of course, any army from any nation is likely to have some bad soldiers in it. But you're suggesting this is a way of life and an attitude common to US Marines.

I find that suggestion despicable.

Maybe it is despicable but i had to phrase it that way because we've all seen platoon etc & to ***** foot around an issue is not to tackle it.

Basically i have known & grown up with people in active service w/ the UN, these are not the marines & their duties had far less scope than an invasion force & yet they nearly always talked in terms of revenge when a fellow soldier got killed from a roadside booby trap.

Therefore, to my knowledge what goes on in an army on the frontline can sometimes be very high tension indeed & to speak of them as bobbies on the beat who are incapable of sudden, callous savagery is to misunderstand the nature of war. One of the prime functions of officers is too see that their men are capable of extreme action at a moments notice & yet completely adhere to guidelines, communiction lines & to-the-letter execution of orders. If such components of an army become corrupt the killing power of any unit is just that; a killing machine. You want it to smell of roses? then you might be engaged in a perfume machine.

 

[Swift]

Maybe it is despicable but i had to phrase it that way because we've all seen platoon etc & to ***** foot around an issue is not to tackle it.

Basically i have known & grown up with people in active service w/ the UN, these are not the marines & their duties had far less scope than an invasion force & yet they nearly always talked in terms of revenge when a fellow soldier got killed from a roadside booby trap.

Therefore, to my knowledge what goes on in an army on the frontline can sometimes be very high tension indeed & to speak of them as bobbies on the beat who are incapable of sudden, callous savagery is to misunderstand the nature of war. One of the prime functions of officers is too see that their men are capable of extreme action at a moments notice & yet completely adhere to guidelines, communiction lines & to-the-letter execution of orders. If such components of an army become corrupt the killing power of any unit is just that; a killing machine. You want it to smell of roses? then you might be engaged in a perfume machine.

Would you not want revenge if your friend was killed? I want revenge on the stupid woman that ran a red light and killed a friend of mine. I want revenge on the idiot that gave one of my best friends bad drugs. That's not even in a war and I very much wanted revenge. I'm not seeing your point about that.

Also, this massacre and others like it are horrid examples of what the military can do and has done. But of course, this, like the murders and other violent crime in society is the exeception not the norm. I don't defend this action in the slightest. In fact, I detest it and feel it shames the military and the country. But I just find it amazing that they can go on for as long as they have and do right, and nobody cares. It's just amazing to me.

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

Would you not want revenge if your friend was killed? I want revenge on the stupid woman that ran a red light and killed a friend of mine. I want revenge on the idiot that gave one of my best friends bad drugs. That's not even in a war and I very much wanted revenge. I'm not seeing your point about that.

Also, this massacre and others like it are horrid examples of what the military can do and has done. But of course, this, like the murders and other violent crime in society is the exeception not the norm. I don't defend this action in the slightest. In fact, I detest it and feel it shames the military and the country. But I just find it amazing that they can go on for as long as they have and do right, and nobody cares. It's just amazing to me.

That's what i am saying though, Swift, that these actions are wrong and by keeping them shocking we can look at them honestly & find what is understandable about them.

All countries try & train young people to have a warrior caste mentality. These are the manipulators but it is average people who get manipulated & find themselves in situations horrific.

 

[ledhed]

That's what i am saying though, Swift, that these actions are wrong and by keeping them shocking we can look at them honestly & find what is understandable about them.

All countries try & train young people to have a warrior caste mentality. These are the manipulators but it is average people who get manipulated & find themselves in situations horrific.

The Military in Iraq has fought thousands of battles and a million different troops have rotated in and out...all of those troops somehow managed to fight honorabily and not get out of controll. there is NO excuse for their actions if they murdered these civilians. While it can be understood , IT CAN NOT BE EXCUSED .
The military is very well aware of breakdowns in discipline and what they can cause. A sane peson would wonder how anyone exposed to combat could NOT become a cold blooded killer ...BUT ..it has been proven over and over ..that it can and has been done..otherwise the expectations for any combat troops would not be so high.
The world still needs warriors as long as there remains battles to be fought.
tree huggers do not do very well in combat. Liberty and democracy require a constant vigillence from attack from both outside and the inside...it is too easy to take away .And very hard and cost alot of blood to get back .

When will the 12 million Iraqi's who voted for freedom get the support they have earned with their blood from the rest of the world ?

Dont they count for anything ?

 

[Solid Lifters]

The truth from the start?

Not sure what you want?

 

[Sphinx]

Not sure what you want?

I know what I want, are you sure you do. Because it was you who asked question, I simply supplied a possible answer.

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

Three or four soldiers did wrong. It's being handled. What the hell more do people want?

Please, keep your anti American, anti war, anti military and anti Bush comments to yourself. We don't need to hear that crap anymore. It gets nothing done.

And movies about war always tell the truth...

Let me get this post straight;

To your way of thinking, SL, any post which does not meet these criteria;

Pro-American (does this include the south & north Americas?)

Pro-War (such a genius economic necessity)

Pro-Military (this is a hardware forum, right?)

Pro-Bush (see Pro-War...also ; Why are these latter three criteria contingent on the first one?)

is only going to engage your vitriol, the fuel of pure reason surely, which means you won't make any members that don't tow this party (national socialist?) line not feel welcome or usefull here.

Please reply to these question marks, is this a full observation of yours? is it a policy of yours?

There might be a way not to avoid offending the 'we' of which you speak w/ inadvertant postings of 'crap'.

 

[Kent]

So therefore that must be false? I guess this is just another attempt to undermine the war effort by the leftist media using false information then? Sad but indeed, predictable.




Here, perhaps the news will be more "credible" coming from that source...

No but thanks for putting words in my mouth.
Simply pointing out the "allegedly" in the statement was my first thought based on my general approach to any situation in which I do not jump to conclusions.
(as it seems you have jumped to a conclusion about what you guess was my belief that this event absolutely could not have happend)

Also, I was making a joke about the post in front of mine, yes it was a bad idea.

Once a story becomes more well known to me I acknowledge the facts as they are (or as well as I can understand them).

In any case, regarding the subject of the thread.
Like many others have said, I like to see justice in the military just as I like to see it in civilian life. People who commit crimes of this nature should and hopefully will be punished.

 

[Solid Lifters]

I know what I want, are you sure you do. Because it was you who asked question, I simply supplied a possible answer.

I know what I wanted. I stated it. Did you? No. I don't accept questions for answers.

Let me get this post straight;

To your way of thinking, SL, any post which does not meet these criteria;

Pro-American (does this include the south & north Americas?)

Pro-War (such a genius economic necessity)

Pro-Military (this is a hardware forum, right?)

Pro-Bush (see Pro-War...also ; Why are these latter three criteria contingent on the first one?)

is only going to engage your vitriol, the fuel of pure reason surely, which means you won't make any members that don't tow this party (national socialist?) line not feel welcome or usefull here.

Please reply to these question marks, is this a full observation of yours? is it a policy of yours?

There might be a way not to avoid offending the 'we' of which you speak w/ inadvertant postings of 'crap'.

It's you and the rest of the "anti Bush," anti Military" crowd that started to fling the crap. It's my honor to tell you and the like that it's getting old and pathetic.

Again, the situation is being handled. Justice will be served. Something which you deviate from your self-righteous speech.

 

[Sphinx]

I know what I wanted. I stated it. Did you? No. I don't accept questions for answers.

It's you and the rest of the "anti Bush," anti Military" crowd that started to fling the crap. It's my honor to tell you and the like that it's getting old and pathetic.

Again, the situation is being handled. Justice will be served. Something which you deviate from your self-righteous speech.

May I ask what your honour has anything to do with this?

Yes it is being handled, but if it were not for the media footage that was taken just after the killings nothing would've been handled even if the truth were known by the military.

It would be nice to comfort oneself by calling this a regreatbale isolated incident that was carried out by a "few bad apples", but it's not. There are more, and those "few bad apples" seem to be more like a barrel load.

 

[Solid Lifters]

It would be nice to comfort oneself by calling this a regreatbale isolated incident that was carried out by a "few bad apples", but it's not. There are more, and those "few bad apples" seem to be more like a barrel load.

No, that's what the media in your country is trying to make you believe. They're looking for another "monkey-jive around the truth, and let's drum up some more anti war, anti military and anti USA sensationalism."