MCU Phase Five
- Thread starter Famine
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Hopefully, I don't need to watch Ms Marvel TV show to know what the heck is going on in this movie. Never watched that show since it seemed too... High school-y for me. This was always the danger of interweaving movies with multi-episode TV shows, wasn't it? People who don't religiously follow Marvel's outputs might feel lost as to where the story is going, like me... 🤔
UKMikey
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In the words of Pitch Meeting (and obviously there's Endgame spoilers if you want more than the nine seconds I've cued up here):
I watched the first episode of Ms. Marvel and found it pretty intolerable, but caught myself up with... yeah, another Pitch Meeting.
Ms. Marvel spoilers, of course:
I liked Captain Marvel in general terms (although like Wanda, I'm still really confused by the premise that powers that are generated by a single infinity stone confer capabilities to overpower a being powered by all of them), although apparently all white males hate it so I either need to change my skin tone or genitalia. I also very much liked WandaVision** - which, along with Hawkeye and Loki, was a high spot among the generally poor Phase 4 - so I'm two-thirds good with the Marvels. I'm sure Kamala Khan will be just fine too (she was perfectly okay, but the writing and theme of the show made it hurt to watch; I guess it was made for teen girls [and teen Asian girls specifically] so it doesn't matter what I think).
From the looks of it, you'll need to be familiar with Captain Marvel primarily and how she relates to Fury, Skrulls, and the Kree-Skrull War. Knowing how Ms. Marvel and probably-Photon came about will just be a bonus but not a hindrance if you don't.
*Maybe it's the energy of the stone unlocking a mutation or something, and the abilities are not powered by the stone?
**And that also might explain Rambeau/Photon; her abilities were unlocked by passing through Wanda's "Hex", one step removed from the stone. I think they said something about a mutation before she went in a second time.
†Fun side note; all four MCU shows/films I mention above are either female-led or introduce one or more female equals or female new leads for subsequent entries; only Loki introduces a new male lead too, unless you count the Ship of Theseus in WandaVision as a new male lead.
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While I was just trying to work out who it is that Nebula is carrying in the trailer (because the facial hair and ear lobes don't match Chris Pratt):
I noticed a fraction of a second in the trailer where they seem to have CGIed Chris Pratt's eyes. They literally don't move in sync:
2'16 in the full 2'21 trailer from a few weeks back, if you want to watch it yourself and can stand to. As he's about to say "He picked a pretty set", his left eye (on the right
) looks straight, left, and straight, while his right eye looks straight, left, and left.
I noticed a fraction of a second in the trailer where they seem to have CGIed Chris Pratt's eyes. They literally don't move in sync:
2'16 in the full 2'21 trailer from a few weeks back, if you want to watch it yourself and can stand to. As he's about to say "He picked a pretty set", his left eye (on the right
) looks straight, left, and straight, while his right eye looks straight, left, and left.
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Majors dropped by manager (Entertainment 360) and PR (Lede Company):
deadline.com
He has reportedly completed filming on Loki Season 2 already, with none of the other P5 movies or shows requiring a Kang variant (aside from any possible mid/end credits scenes)
Jonathan Majors & Manager Entertainment 360 Part Ways; Actor Facing Domestic Violence Allegations In NYC
EXCLUSIVE: Talent manager Entertainment 360 has dropped Jonathan Majors, several sources tell us. The recent move by Majors’ longtime manager comes three weeks after the Magazine Dreams star …
deadline.com
He has reportedly completed filming on Loki Season 2 already, with none of the other P5 movies or shows requiring a Kang variant (aside from any possible mid/end credits scenes)
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Indeed. Given that the MCU has already established that variants don't necessarily look like the "original" - regardless of how little sense it makes - in WandaVision, No Way Home, Loki, and Quantumania, unless they need to so the movie can happen (Multiverse of Madness), Kang is among the easiest of characters to recast.
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A rare off day from work, and I sat down in the comfort of my own home to watch the third Ant-Man movie (with subs on to hear all the exposition dumps and science mumbo-jumbo), and...
Well, I thought it wasn't as horrible as everyone made it out to be. But it was also quite sloppy in places, as if there have been a lot of reshoots to rejig the story beats and the director/editor couldn't quite make the whole thing gel.
What made me worry about the upcoming phases, though, was Kang himself. I was genuinely unhappy with how this movie wasted what could've been a compelling villain.
Just a random idea that popped into my head that might... "improve" this film. I dunno. shrugs shoulders
Well, I thought it wasn't as horrible as everyone made it out to be. But it was also quite sloppy in places, as if there have been a lot of reshoots to rejig the story beats and the director/editor couldn't quite make the whole thing gel.
What made me worry about the upcoming phases, though, was Kang himself. I was genuinely unhappy with how this movie wasted what could've been a compelling villain.
So, I thought I'd give it a shot at "fixing" this movie. My own version of "What If?" if you will.
The movie starts off with Scott Lang in a good space: famous author, a stable family life, respected as an Avenger and recognized as a hero by everyone. (kinda like how the actual movie starts, then.)
He seems content, but inwardly, he's antsy. He used to be a thief, remember. Although he's left that life behind for good, a small part of Scott wishes he's still in the thick of action. And, with his middle age looming, so does his mid-life crisis. So, he wants to "retire" with a proverbial one last job, but his desire to catch up with his daughter prevents him from doing something reckless/dangerous/world-saving aka the usual Avengers stuff.
Scott's daughter, Cassie, questions why her dad isn't being more active toward helping people without knowing her father's feelings. (Again, kinda like the actual movie, but with a little more dramatic tension, I think.) She wants her dad to act like an Avenger, but little does she know, the Avengers haven't called Scott since the end of... uh, the End Game. Scott is inwardly frustrated, but his family comes first, so he bottles it all for now.
During the pizza scene (from the actual movie) it is revealed that Cassie and Hank have been working on a quantum realm-mapping-whatever thingymajigie. They go to the basement workshop and start sending the signal to the quantum realm, only to receive an urgent SOS message back from Janet's old acquaintance who is "trapped" down there. This acquaintance speaks of a "Conqueror" who's spreading a reign of terror in the quantum realm, and only Janet can stop him using her Wasp suit's abilities - by stealing a McGuffin in the villain's vault.
Janet exposition-dumps at this point, saying what happened during her time in the quantum realm, and says she owes this acquaintance and must repay the favour. Realising this might the last hurrah he's looking for, Scott volunteers. After all, he's a thief, and stealing world-saving McGuffin is his thing.
Cassie also wants to come, but Scott obviously says no, then asks Hank to keep an eye on her. Scott, Hope, and Janet travel to the quantum realm and meet the acquaintance, a scientist from the distant future named Nathaniel Richards (twist!) who self-exiled himself to the quantum realm for a past he wishes not to reveal. But he's revealed to be a good man, helping the denizens of the quantum realm with his knowledge and benevolence.
The "conqueror" is Krylar (played by Bill Murray, like in the movie) who used to be Janet's old flame while she was stuck in the quantum realm. (This might create another point of tension in the story. Especially when Hank learns about it--like in the actual movie, but handled a little better) MODOK is his minion but dreams of freeing himself from Krylar's influence somehow but can't due to some kinda device enslaving him. Or something.
So, Scott and his gang are dodging Krylar's paramilitary and working together with the resistance to steal the McGuffin... But Scott, as a thief, instinctively feels something is off about this whole thing but can't be sure what that is.
Meanwhile, up on the surface, Cassie convinces Hank via Talk-no-Jutsu ("Just don't be a dick, okay!") and they also end up in the quantum realm and straight into Krylar's hands.
So, the usual Marvel superhero things happen, CGI explosions go off everywhere, heroic speeches and tension-breaking banters ensue until they ostensibly steal the McGuffin. That's when Scott's thieving senses go off and he figures out why he's been feeling so uneasy: how did Krylar conquer the quantum realm?
Just before the heroes celebrate, ominous BGM starts playing, and Nathaniel Richards looks up in horror and says, "Oh, God. He's coming."
Janet asks, "Who is coming?"
N. Richards: "Me. My variant. Kang is coming."
A lone figure in purple-and-green suit slowly descends, his face obscured by a sinister helmet, and says, "That's enough playing around." A proverbial snap of his finger, and the entire battlefield is flattened.
In the last ditch effort to save his friends, Nathaniel Richards opens a wormhole with his tech, then tries to send Scott and Co. home before Kang kills him in full view of everyone and takes away his McGuffin that allowed Krylar to conqueror the quantum realm.
The gang tries to escape but Kang still interferes, and Scott and Janet are separated from the rest. The "rest" arrives back in San Fran, but Scott and Janet end up in another universe, stranding them there. (I'm thinking of Earth 838 from Doc Strange 2, which will connect the two movies.)
Cassie, Hank, and Hope swear they'll bring Scott and Janet back home.
Roll credits.
Mid-credit scene will still be the "Council" of Kangs, but they gather to talk about Kang the Conqueror assuming control of the quantum realm which will give him access to any and all part of the multiverse. They want to stop him from continuing with the multiversal war as mentioned in the Loki TV show.
Whew, now I'm exhausted.
The movie starts off with Scott Lang in a good space: famous author, a stable family life, respected as an Avenger and recognized as a hero by everyone. (kinda like how the actual movie starts, then.)
He seems content, but inwardly, he's antsy. He used to be a thief, remember. Although he's left that life behind for good, a small part of Scott wishes he's still in the thick of action. And, with his middle age looming, so does his mid-life crisis. So, he wants to "retire" with a proverbial one last job, but his desire to catch up with his daughter prevents him from doing something reckless/dangerous/world-saving aka the usual Avengers stuff.
Scott's daughter, Cassie, questions why her dad isn't being more active toward helping people without knowing her father's feelings. (Again, kinda like the actual movie, but with a little more dramatic tension, I think.) She wants her dad to act like an Avenger, but little does she know, the Avengers haven't called Scott since the end of... uh, the End Game. Scott is inwardly frustrated, but his family comes first, so he bottles it all for now.
During the pizza scene (from the actual movie) it is revealed that Cassie and Hank have been working on a quantum realm-mapping-whatever thingymajigie. They go to the basement workshop and start sending the signal to the quantum realm, only to receive an urgent SOS message back from Janet's old acquaintance who is "trapped" down there. This acquaintance speaks of a "Conqueror" who's spreading a reign of terror in the quantum realm, and only Janet can stop him using her Wasp suit's abilities - by stealing a McGuffin in the villain's vault.
Janet exposition-dumps at this point, saying what happened during her time in the quantum realm, and says she owes this acquaintance and must repay the favour. Realising this might the last hurrah he's looking for, Scott volunteers. After all, he's a thief, and stealing world-saving McGuffin is his thing.
Cassie also wants to come, but Scott obviously says no, then asks Hank to keep an eye on her. Scott, Hope, and Janet travel to the quantum realm and meet the acquaintance, a scientist from the distant future named Nathaniel Richards (twist!) who self-exiled himself to the quantum realm for a past he wishes not to reveal. But he's revealed to be a good man, helping the denizens of the quantum realm with his knowledge and benevolence.
The "conqueror" is Krylar (played by Bill Murray, like in the movie) who used to be Janet's old flame while she was stuck in the quantum realm. (This might create another point of tension in the story. Especially when Hank learns about it--like in the actual movie, but handled a little better) MODOK is his minion but dreams of freeing himself from Krylar's influence somehow but can't due to some kinda device enslaving him. Or something.
So, Scott and his gang are dodging Krylar's paramilitary and working together with the resistance to steal the McGuffin... But Scott, as a thief, instinctively feels something is off about this whole thing but can't be sure what that is.
Meanwhile, up on the surface, Cassie convinces Hank via Talk-no-Jutsu ("Just don't be a dick, okay!") and they also end up in the quantum realm and straight into Krylar's hands.
So, the usual Marvel superhero things happen, CGI explosions go off everywhere, heroic speeches and tension-breaking banters ensue until they ostensibly steal the McGuffin. That's when Scott's thieving senses go off and he figures out why he's been feeling so uneasy: how did Krylar conquer the quantum realm?
Just before the heroes celebrate, ominous BGM starts playing, and Nathaniel Richards looks up in horror and says, "Oh, God. He's coming."
Janet asks, "Who is coming?"
N. Richards: "Me. My variant. Kang is coming."
A lone figure in purple-and-green suit slowly descends, his face obscured by a sinister helmet, and says, "That's enough playing around." A proverbial snap of his finger, and the entire battlefield is flattened.
In the last ditch effort to save his friends, Nathaniel Richards opens a wormhole with his tech, then tries to send Scott and Co. home before Kang kills him in full view of everyone and takes away his McGuffin that allowed Krylar to conqueror the quantum realm.
The gang tries to escape but Kang still interferes, and Scott and Janet are separated from the rest. The "rest" arrives back in San Fran, but Scott and Janet end up in another universe, stranding them there. (I'm thinking of Earth 838 from Doc Strange 2, which will connect the two movies.)
Cassie, Hank, and Hope swear they'll bring Scott and Janet back home.
Roll credits.
Mid-credit scene will still be the "Council" of Kangs, but they gather to talk about Kang the Conqueror assuming control of the quantum realm which will give him access to any and all part of the multiverse. They want to stop him from continuing with the multiversal war as mentioned in the Loki TV show.
Whew, now I'm exhausted.
Just a random idea that popped into my head that might... "improve" this film. I dunno. shrugs shoulders
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Just saw Spider-Man : Across the Spider-Verse. Gangsta.
The movie is to be continued next year. Too many Easter eggs. I’d have to watch it a couple more times. Everything is connected(and it’s all explained).
The intro was long. Some mushy bits after the intro and then it jumps off again.
Action action action. Cartoons can do it so much better.
Crazy twist and so serious. It has the comedic bits, but this joint is no joke. I didn’t stay to see if there were end credit scenes, as the movie ended abruptly. Pretty much to due to its continuation. Another hit by Sony.
Would be cool if all the Miles Morales movies could be seen in one continuous flow.
The movie is to be continued next year. Too many Easter eggs. I’d have to watch it a couple more times. Everything is connected(and it’s all explained).
The intro was long. Some mushy bits after the intro and then it jumps off again.
Action action action. Cartoons can do it so much better.
Crazy twist and so serious. It has the comedic bits, but this joint is no joke. I didn’t stay to see if there were end credit scenes, as the movie ended abruptly. Pretty much to due to its continuation. Another hit by Sony.
Would be cool if all the Miles Morales movies could be seen in one continuous flow.
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I dunno, I just couldnt get fully onboard with it. A lot of it seemed a bit forced, especially the gore parts - Just seemed a bit unnecessary and did it for the sake of just breaking away from the usual, but it just didnt mesh too well for me. Something about the CGI was a bit jarring to me at times as well which resulted in some scenes seeming cheesy. I wouldn't say it was terrible but there was just something off about it for me. I think I still like the original the most.
UKMikey
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I like the book ends effect where the last guy Quill talks to is the first guy he talked to in Guardians 1. Closure.
However, the first instalment works a lot better for me now that the gang of space idiots' backstories are all filled out than it did as a straight McGuffin hunt. Except for Drax who was kinda shortchanged. And Groot I guess.
However, the first instalment works a lot better for me now that the gang of space idiots' backstories are all filled out than it did as a straight McGuffin hunt. Except for Drax who was kinda shortchanged. And Groot I guess.
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So. Secret Invasion.
It's toiling a bit, but it's more of a dark spy thriller that just so happens to have super-powered aliens in it. Final episode next week, and my guess for the person on the other end of the phone is...
It's toiling a bit, but it's more of a dark spy thriller that just so happens to have super-powered aliens in it. Final episode next week, and my guess for the person on the other end of the phone is...
Phil Coulson - given Clark Gregg's return to the MCU in Captain Marvel (linked to this series through the Fury/Skrull arc) and What If..?, and the fact he's currently only sort-of dead and actually a robot. That and a couple of hints in the episode about things Coulson has done in the pre-silly AoS seasons...
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Christ they need a win soon, excluding Loki S2 which has been embarrassingly better than everything else since Loki S1. The Marvels looks like it might be there or thereabouts, but then it also looks like they've revealed the entire film in the trailer.
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That’s the truth! LST night, Me and my wife were watching a new trailer(at this moment, we both can’t remember the movie 
), I had to stop the dang video because it was showing everything. Looks like a really good movie too.
These studios need to let the poster hook people in.
Edit: The trailer was The Fall Guy!
), I had to stop the dang video because it was showing everything. Looks like a really good movie too.These studios need to let the poster hook people in.
Edit: The trailer was The Fall Guy!
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And the general consensus is it isn't.
A few people are trying to make the point that male reviewers are dumping on it but female ones aren't (and as there's more male reviewers, that means a dumping), but it doesn't seem to track. Everyone's praising Iman Vellani, but the general plot, entire villain (although Zawe Ashton herself escapes), pacing, editing, character consistency (particularly Nick Fury, given the recent Secret Invasion), and a chunk of the CGI is under fire otherwise - even from those rating it more highly.
Quite a few saying Teyonah Parris is basically a third wheel (just for her mid-credits scene), that the film seems like a bunch of reshoots were nailed in, and that the story is pretty much just a way to get pieces lined up to where they need to be for Deadpool 3/Phase 6/Battleworld without regard for this film having an actual story.
Critic scores hovering around 50-60, weird imbalance on viewer scores (80 at RT, 37 at MC, no rating on IMDB yet but ~60 unweighted).
Guess this is another one to not make an effort to see in the cinema. Ten in a row.
Yeah, it's in the Disney+ MCU thread.
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UKMikey
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I'd guessed what to expect mainly due to the movie's troubled production history but will still make that effort just for the sake of a day out and am prepared to put it down to sunken cost fallacy.
variety.com
Crisis at Marvel: Jonathan Majors Back-Up Plans, ‘The Marvels’ Reshoots, Reviving Original Avengers and More Issues Revealed
Marvel has enjoyed a nearly uninterrupted string of hits ever since it started independently producing its movies with 2008’s “Iron Man.”
variety.com
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Worst opening weekend in Marvel history, even beating the semi-official Universal/MCU Incredible Hulk which had been the previous lowest ebb.
$47m in total (although that's enough to make it the #1 film over the weekend), compared to $55m for Hulk and $57m for Ant Man - although they were both much better received critically. Also worse than The Flash ($55m).
It's the third MCU film with only a B-grade CinemaScore (Eternals, Quantumania), which does rather pose the question of how it's at 84% approval on RT - against 62% for critics. Metacritic has it at 50% for critics and 36% for audience, with IMDB at 62%.
Even taking into account the fact that a lot of
Although I suspect - like Captain Marvel, which I enjoyed (even if Buffy did "this girl can" better, earlier, despite the gross Whedon) - this opinion is being overplayed as more prevalent than it is so that all criticism of it can be viewed through this lens and dismissed regardless of whether it's valid or not.
I was hoping it'd be good enough to make me go to our new cinema - as I liked Captain Marvel, wanted to see what Monica would be up to after Wandavision, and liked Iman Vellani even if I couldn't get on with her show at all - but I guess I'll watch it legally from a shop in a couple of months instead.
The real question is what they're going to do next though, because if they don't put out a winner soon* I can see the whole slate being cancelled.
Deadpool 3 is next of course, and that's not going to fail no matter what - but then it's also got a male lead, another male lead, and an experienced and male director (Levy's done Stranger Things, Night at the Museum, and this is his third Ryan Reynolds gig), so that'll be held up as sexism from mainly male fans/reviewers again. Also it's got a ****-ton of fan service universe crossovers like No Way Home.
Brave New World could be good, although I'm not sure Mackie can lead a film yet (his presence in Altered Carbon S2 made Joel Kinnaman in the same role in S1 look like Karl Urban, and he was so-so in FWS) and it seems the film tested poorly and has had to go into reshoots. Also the presence of an Israeli ex-Mossad superhero isn't looking like the best idea right now.
Thunderbolts looks like Suicide Squad but with less clearly defined villains as the Squad (because the MCU all but cannot do villains, so they're all ill-defined): Ghost, the absolutely butchered Taskmaster, John Walker, and the absolute star power of Sebastian Stan and Florence Pugh (love 'em both; they're sidekicks not stars).
No idea what to make of Blade. Remaking something so well regarded (not you, Trinity) is quite literally a double-edge sword, but Mahershala Ali is about as good as it gets as a lead (even if we have to ignore that he was Cottonmouth in Luke Cage, just as we ignore that the brilliant Alfre Woodard was both Black Mariah in Luke Cage and had a criminally anonymous role in Civil War).
And then there's the Kang films, which have their own very obvious and high profile issue and might well be their own nail in the coffin (having established six core Kang variants already as being played by the same actor; maybe they'll pull both a Rhodey and a George Lucas?).
Fantastic Four, I guess? Have they cast anyone for this yet?
Of course we've always got the TV series to look forward to, so long as everyone responsible for Secret Invasion and the finale of She-Hulk (neat series, totally ruined by the self-referential, back-slapping, attempted satire curtain pull at the end which very much said "haha we wasted your time because we already got your money, and you chumps will keep on giving it to us anyway") never work on any of them again.
Loki S2 was an all-timer (WandaVision still #1 outside of Netflix though), Echo looks great, not sure about the thrice-renamed Agatha series (now "Darkhold Diaries" after "Coven of Chaos" and "House of Harkness") but Kathryn Hahn, no thoughts on Ironheart at all, and quite worried for the future of Daredevil Born Again (hopefully revived by Echo though).
*To be fair, GOTG3 looks like a winner on most metrics, except its critics' MC score which is lower than every P2/P3 film except Iron Man 2...
UKMikey
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Not going to suggest it would have been a smash for the reasons you've already mentioned, but launching so close to the end of the SAG-Aftra strikes can't have helped. I don't follow the MCU closely, but we've/I've known the Marvels was going to be a thing for ages, but I didn't realise it had been released until the hot-takes on Twitter started - I don't think we can ignore the impact of the curtailed marketing on the box office. I think M:I Dead reckoning was similarly impacted, launching during the strikes, and have the second worst domestic opening of the franchise.
