MH17 Crash In Ukraine. Known info in OP.

[Dennisch]

Another Malaysian Airlines plane has crashed, on the Ukraine - Russian border. The Russian press agency says that the plane might have been shot down. But little is known for now.


Information so far:

Flight MH-17/KL4103 From Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

298 people on board. 283 passengers, 15 crew. No survivors.
193 Dutch passengers.
27 Australian passengers, 44 Malaysian, 12 Indonesian, 9 from the UK, 4 from Germany, 4 from Belgium, 3 from the Philippines, 1 Canadian, 1 from New Sealand.

Broke up in the air, large debris field, Several intelligence agencies confirm a missile in the air. pretty much confirms it being shot down. The plane never made a distress call.

A phone call has been intercepted between a Pro Russian separatist commander and a Russian Intelligence officer discussing that they thought they had shot down An AN-26 but they realise that they have hit the passenger jet.

The black boxes (FDR's) are now in Malaysian hands.
The recovered bodies are moved by train to Charkov, a Ukrainian controlled city. From there they will be airlifted to the Netherlands.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Another Malaysian Airlines plane has crashed, on the Ukraine - Russian border. The Russian press agency says that the plane might have been shot down. But little is known for now

I just landed to say the same thing... a colleague tells me it's Boeing outbound Schiphol to KL, his Russian's better than mine.

Unlikely to be at all related, obviously, but probably belongs in here A NEW THREAD .

EDIT: More (not much more) on Reuters (in English). Started dropping from cruise altitude (article says 10,000 metres or 33,000ft) then hit the ground. That's unlikely to have been "shot down" imo if it actually flew down. Engagements at that kind of altitude are generally visual (cannon) or standoff (missiles). A jet full of fuel (which this would have been) doesn't gently fly down after a missile hit, and I can't imagine that any pilot would engage an airliner with cannon.

So... that actually currently puts this in the same category as the thread subject; loss of MA flight at altitude. I'm sure we'll learn more soon.

EDIT EDIT: Another 777. Parp. This from flighttrack's twattle feed;

 

[Dennisch]

Jup. Flight MH 17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Boeing 777.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Based off of CNN's coverage of this incident, it looks like a MA flight successfully took the same path and landed in KL yesterday. What doesn't make sense is that the transponder would clearly show the 777 as a passenger aircraft, and as a result, it shouldn't have even been targeted- even in a combat area.
The plane had 295 people on board- 280 passengers and 15 crew members.

 

[GTPorsche]

A Ukrainian cargo plane was shot down on Monday as well.

 

[XxInNOutxX]

Malaysian Airlines plane got shot down... RIP.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...shes-ukraine-russian-border-article-1.1870413

 

[TenEightyOne]

Based off of CNN's coverage of this incident, it looks like a MA flight successfully took the same path and landed in KL yesterday. What doesn't make sense is that the transponder would clearly show the 777 as a passenger aircraft, and as a result, it shouldn't have even been targeted- even in a combat area.
The plane had 295 people on board- 280 passengers and 15 crew members.

And every day, it's a pretty busy air corridor.

 

[Dennisch]

Russia claims it just crashed. Ukraine claims that it has been shot down.


Edit

Russia now also claims that it has been shot down.

Let the blame game begin!

 

[Touring Mars]

The BBC and others are reporting that an adviser to the Interior Minister in Ukraine says the plane was shot down by a BUK missile launcher. Coincidentally, (or perhaps not), the Associated Press reported earlier today that they spotted a BUK launcher in rebel hands in the region. In addition, a rebel group had claimed to have shot down a plane earlier today.

Tragic incident - and needless to say, terrible news for Malaysia and Malaysian Airlines.

 

[Dennisch]

The commander of the separatists has tweeted that they brought it down. Still unconfirmed if it is a real tweet.

 

[G.T.Ace]

If the rebels seriously shut down a civil plane of a country not even in the slightest involved in the conflict, Russia has to intervene immediately. This is nothing to make fun of and REALLY serious incident.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The BBC and others are reporting that an adviser to the Interior Minister in Ukraine says the plane was shot down by a BUK missile launcher. Coincidentally, (or perhaps not), the Associated Press reported earlier today that they spotted a BUK launcher in rebel hands in the region. In addition, a rebel group had claimed to have shot down a plane earlier today.

Tragic incident - and needless to say, terrible news for Malaysia and Malaysian Airlines.

Oh dear

The description is that the plane "started to descend", no mention of fire. The thing was not long at cruising altitude and would have had a great deal of fuel on board... a missile would hit the belly or wing and be unlikely to miss a fuel tank, my instinct is that it would have included enough fire to be in the description.

I'm also wary of the amount of political capital to be made here, nervous about the coincidence of another MA777 in a high-alt emergency (although they were both over 'war' zones) and speculating as wildly as everyone else...

More info to come, I'm sure, at least this time we're likely to get the FDRs.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Malaysian Airlines made it clear that they don't know if it was shot down. All they know is that they lost contact with it.

 

[GTPorsche]

Separitist group admits to firing a missile around the time the plane went down...

I think we've got our answer...

 

[G.T.Ace]

The description is that the plane "started to descend", no mention of fire. The thing was not long at cruising altitude and would have had a great deal of fuel on board... a missile would hit the belly or wing and be unlikely to miss a fuel tank, my instinct is that it would have included enough fire to be in the description.

I've seen enough planes being shut down without any huge fire.

If it's true, we're talking about a disgusting act of terror here.

EDIT: In the name of Russia by the way.

 

[Robin]

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Oh man, the chances of any possible survivors looks grim from these pictures...

 

[Dennisch]

Reuters have now pretty much confirmed that it is a passenger jet that has gone down.

Terrible day.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Almost 300 dead.

 

[Omnis]

Looks like something hit it and exploded. God damn this crimean war and the reigns of state power.

 

[DQuaN]

That's just smoke from the wreckage. There is no way to determine what happened by looking at that.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Looks like something hit it and exploded. God damn this crimean war and the reigns of state power.

That smoke is from after the plane came down, if I saw that correctly in the footage.
But it still looks a lot like it was shut down.

 

[Dennisch]

The separatists commander has tweeted that they shot down an Antonov 26? and some photos right at the time MH17 went down.

Bad case of misjudgement so it seems.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

The separatists commander has tweeted that they shot down an Antonov 26? and some photos right at the time MH17 went down.

Bad case of misjudgement so it seems.

An SU-25 fighter jet was also shot down recently.

EDIT

I'll add this detail. Eariler today, Obama and Putin were talking to one another (conversation initiated by Putin) to discuss war sanctions. It is possible that both leaders may have discussed the MA flight depending on the time of conversation, but the US isn't saying if the plane was discussed in this conversation.

Boeing was only recently notified of the disaster after being called by CNN. They said that they will help government agencies if asked to.

 

[Robin]

The news seems to imply that only a sophisticated surface to air missile system would be able to reach a 30,000 ft target accurately and that it's unlikely that it was launched from a portable or vehicle based unit. The other possibility is that it was air to air missile launched from a fighter jet.

 

[Liquid]

Bad case of misjudgement so it seems.

Let's just hope that's all it is. Not that shooting a military plane is acceptable.

An awful matter for all concerned.

 

[G.T.Ace]

The news seems to imply that only a sophisticated surface to air missile system would be able to reach a 30,000 ft target accurately and that it's unlikely that it was launched from a portable or vehicle based unit. The other possibility is that it was air to air missile launched from a fighter jet.

A Buk is absolutely capable of that.

EDIT: The 777 has a friend/foe warning system too, so you have to be brain dead to accidently shoot it down.

 

[Robin]

A Buk is absolutely capable of that.

I think they probably meant something like this (stuff bolted to a Hilux) rather than a 'proper' missile launch vehicle.

 

[G.T.Ace]

I think they probably meant something like this rather than a 'proper' missile launch vehicle.

No, the Buk system was mentioned before and still is.
There's also still speculation that it might've been a Russian rocket too.

 

[Robin]

No, the Buk system was mentioned before and still is.
There's also still speculation that it might've been a Russian rocket too.

Yes I know it was likely to be a BUK, the news is implying that to get hold of a BUK vehicle and also know how to use it would take something more than just 'some guys' getting hold of it.

It's getting really serious, could start WW3.