MH17 Crash In Ukraine. Known info in OP.

[AnthonyD1993]

The pictures that CNN are showing pretty much confirm that it is a Malaysian Airlines plane. The plane that was shot down on Monday was at 21,000 feet when it was taken out. As many have stated, MH 17 was at 33,000 feet when it was lost. The US believes that a SAM (Surface to Air Missle) would have been the most likely weapon to take down both aircraft.

 

[Touring Mars]

Let's hope the wreckage is not destroyed/looted/tampered with before investigators can get to it.

Getting access to a plane crash site in a war zone might be very hard indeed.

 

[Robin]

Chilling....

 

[ukfan758]

Malaysia Flight 17 has crashed for unconfirmed reasons as of 17 July. There have been reports that bodies and debris are scattered for miles. As of 13:08 EST, no one has taken blame for the crash (nor do we know if ground forces did have any involvement in the incident). 295 people are believed to be on that flight, and it appears that chances of survival are slim.Mods please update this when more reports come in.

^(I'm not sure if gore/bodies are in this photo, I apologize of there are)

 

[Robin]

It's currently being discussed in here,

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-carrying-239-people-is-lost-over-sea.304740/

It might be that the mod's move the posts in there over to here.

 

[GTPorsche]

Could those pictures be any smaller?

And if there was only a way to link to a news article on the internet.. someone should come up with a way to do that. 💡

 

[ukfan758]

Could those pictures be any smaller?

And if there was only a way to link to a news article on the internet.. someone should come up with a way to do that. 💡

https://mobile.twitter.com/Reuters

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/m...enger-jet-crashes-ukraine-reports-say-n158416

http://bbc.com

http://www.cbsnews.com

 

[Omnis]

Ugh! There are pictures surfacing on twitter of the wreckage site with the bodies strewn all over. Be careful while looking for news. Poor, poor people.

 

[Altier146237]

This is terrible. It seems as if everyone believes so far that the Plane was shot down but the guilty party is still unknown. I am wondering how this is being reported in Russia, as they are much closer to the crash.@Rage Racer

 

[Rage Racer]

Just in case if you think that it was taken down by the DPR militia: they do not have any missiles that are able to hit a plane on the altitude of 10,000 metres. Portable SAMs cannot do that.
Why did the Ukrainian air traffic controller guide the plane above the war zone? Possible to be a provocation.

Remember, there was an accident in 2001 when Ukrainian armed forces attacked a Tu-154 from Israel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

 

[G.T.Ace]

Yes I know it was likely to be a BUK, the news is implying that to get hold of a BUK vehicle and also know how to use it would take something more than just 'some guys' getting hold of it.

It's getting really serious, could start WW3.

The seperatists overran so many military outposts and bases, not to mention that there's a ton of Russian material in the Ukraine. The seperatists have some very sophisticated weapon systems in their hands.

Still, it's of course possible that it got shot down by Ukrainian, or Russian forces too.
Let's hope there were some military sattellites scanning the area while it happened.

 

[Barra333]

Let's hope the wreckage is not destroyed/looted/tampered with before investigators can get to it.

Getting access to a plane crash site in a war zone might be very hard indeed.

They showed pictures on the BBC of people standing on fuselage panels.

 

[Touring Mars]

The Ukrainian military say they have recorded the launch of a missile that could have caused the MH17 crash...

 

[Rage Racer]

The DPR militants do not have any Buks (as far as we know), but Ukrainian army does.

 

[Altier146237]

Rage Racer, on the way home I was listening to a news radio channel, and they had a woman who claimed to be in Donetsk, and had claimed that she had seen either a SAM system being commanded by the rebels, who drove it out of the city in a hurry. Based on her terrible description it could be either a Tunguska (Not very likely) or a Sa-11. But in all honesty I am willing to wager that she is either making up things, or inaccurately describing a generic APC.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Just in case if you think that it was taken down by the DPR militia: they do not have any missiles that are able to hit a plane on the altitude of 10,000 metres. Portable SAMs cannot do that.
Why did the Ukrainian air traffic controller guide the plane above the war zone? Possible to be a provocation.

Remember, there was an accident in 2001 when Ukrainian armed forces attacked a Tu-154 from Israel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

Says who? The DPR?

 

[ukfan758]

Absolutely horrifying:

The Ukrainian military say they have recorded the launch of a missile that could have caused the MH17 crash...

Source?

 

[Altier146237]

Also I find it rather odd that Putin is claiming that Obama was made aware during their phone call, yet the White House official are claiming that they are not aware when the President was informed about the Crash. I am not claming that there is a conspiracy but that does seem rather strange.

 

[Rage Racer]

This is terrible. It seems as if everyone believes so far that the Plane was shot down but the guilty party is still unknown. I am wondering how this is being reported in Russia, as they are much closer to the crash.@Rage Racer

It is reported intensively now.
Now they say, the DPR militia (the separatists) have taken over some Buk SAMs before, but they were inoperable. But who knows. Let's wait for more details.

 

[Exorcet]

I just landed to say the same thing... a colleague tells me it's Boeing outbound Schiphol to KL, his Russian's better than mine.

Unlikely to be at all related, obviously, but probably belongs in here.

EDIT: More (not much more) on Reuters (in English). Started dropping from cruise altitude (article says 10,000 metres or 33,000ft) then hit the ground. That's unlikely to have been "shot down" imo if it actually flew down. Engagements at that kind of altitude are generally visual (cannon) or standoff (missiles). A jet full of fuel (which this would have been) doesn't gently fly down after a missile hit, and I can't imagine that any pilot would engage an airliner with cannon.

So... that actually currently puts this in the same category as the thread subject; loss of MA flight at altitude. I'm sure we'll learn more soon.

EDIT EDIT: Another 777. Parp. This from flighttrack's twattle feed;

View attachment 187926

Missiles aren't precises enough to guarantee a direct hit, even against an airliner moving a straight line. The plane could have been hit such that it was able to limp on for a little while, that could be more likely a direct impact on any of the fuel systems.

The seperatists overran so many military outposts and bases, not to mention that there's a ton of Russian material in the Ukraine. The seperatists have some very sophisticated weapon systems in their hands.

Still, it's of course possible that it got shot down by Ukrainian, or Russian forces too.
Let's hope there were some military sattellites scanning the area while it happened.

Buk is not just a vehicle, but a complex SAM system. It's not like a RPG or Stinger which is stand alone. Not to say the separatists couldn't operate one or use one, but from what I know (which is not complete knowledge of the situation in Ukraine)I wouldn't jump on them having used one to do this.

It would seem more likely to me that if a missile was involved, it came from Ukraine or Russia.

 

[Altier146237]

Also now two major airlines are their routes away from the war zone: Lufthansa and, Transaero

 

[Touring Mars]

Source?

BBC Monitoring - I didn't spot their source, however.

The DPR militants do not have any Buks (as far as we know), but Ukrainian army does.

Associated Press reported earlier today (before the crash) that rebel forces were in possession of BUK missile launchers.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Buk is not just a vehicle, but a complex SAM system. It's not like a RPG or Stinger which is stand alone. Not to say the separatists couldn't operate one or use one, but from what I know (which is not complete knowledge of the situation in Ukraine)I wouldn't jump on them having used one to do this.

It would seem more likely to me that if a missile was involved, it came from Ukraine or Russia.

I know, but it's known that the DPR got hold of pretty modern weapon systems already, including tanks and radar systems, so why not also a Buk? It would also make sense, considering it might've been an accident.
No trained operator would shoot down a civilian airliner by accident.

Not saying it wasn't the Ukraine or Russia though.

 

[Rage Racer]

Says who? The DPR?

Yes. Uhm, I hurried up with that a bit, because they actually have Buks now.

Associated Press reported earlier today (before the crash) that rebel forces were in possession of BUK missile launchers.

Our media reports that they were not in operable condition, but let's wait for more details.
I hope the DPR will show these launchers with all ammo unused if they really were not involved in this. But I doubt that it prooves anything...

 

[ukfan758]

Joy, now the us media is going to obsess over only the Americans on the plane being killed and not the others... I don't mean to sound like a sick person but it is ridiculous how in every terrible tragedy, only the Americans are talked about in depth while people from other countries get a footnote (ex: 10 Malaysians killed). Everyone should get equal reporting.

 

[Pilitev]

The looting of the wreckage has already begun (passports, etc.):

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/22867086/___Brokstukken_geplunderd___.html

 

[Altier146237]

Joy, now the us media is going to obsess over only the Americans on the plane being killed and not the others...

I am predicting now that by the end on this month there will be a news segment on each of the news channels, and the major internet sources that are in our country that focus upon and follow the lives of the dead Americans on the plane. Including many crying spouses who the media will take advantage of for as long as they bring viewers to the media outlet.

 

[Dotini]

The FAA put out a warning in April to avoid the Ukraine airspace. Obviously, Malaysia chose to ignore that warning.

Equally obvious is that it is to almost no one's interest to intentionally shoot down a civilian airliner.

CNN is saying the wreckage came down in rebel held territory, and that the Ukraine government at this point has no access to the crash site.

 

[Omnis]

Joy, now the us media is going to obsess over only the Americans on the plane being killed and not the others...

Hey man GTFO with that 🤬. Why don't you go trade places with one of them?

 

[GTPorsche]

The FAA put out a warning in April to avoid the Ukraine airspace. Obviously, Malaysia chose to ignore that warning.

Equally obvious is that it is to almost no one's interest to intentionally shoot down a civilian airliner.

CNN is saying the wreckage came down in rebel held territory, and that the Ukraine government at this point has no access to the crash site.

The airspace in question wasn't part of that warning zone.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-ban-ukraine-skies-did-not-cover-crash-site-n158541