MH370: Malaysian Airlines Flight to Beijing carrying 239 people is lost over sea.

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Keef
For the majority of the flight duration across the Atlantic, Pacific or Indian ocean, planes are not in radar contact. For the period of time they aren't in radar contact they make regularly timed position reports to air traffic control and other traffic via radio. Whether this was required in the area the plane was flying I'm not sure but if it wasn't in radar contact then a transponder code would never be received.
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Yup, changing the 'squawk' code is one of the ways of alerting ground; but it's a fairly well known one, there are other methods too but they all rely on either the radio connection or on autonomous connections.

It's the fact that we've heard nothing from the autonomous connections that seems strange, I'm not sure what the interval would have been on that aircraft but it's normally around 12 mins.

Re the wreckage; it certainly looks like an interior trim panel, they're flame retardent and very flexible and survive very well. I'm surprised there aren't more together, normally wreckage (especially with fuel) sits in the miniscus of the slick.

A wider debris field on land means a high-altitude disintegration, for me I still think there had to be a disastrous high-altitude decompression/explosion.
 
ExigeEvan
I personally think that one of the few ways a plane can "fall out of the sky" these days without so much as a mayday is due to critical airframe failure. You'd literally have to lose a wing or significant portion of the fuselage.

Airframe fatigue, exceptional environmental damage or fuel/device explosion.

Aisde from that it would have to be some health failure of both pilots e.g. fumes.
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As I said earlier there have been cases in the 90s where pilots committed suicide by crashing the plane, though the respective airliners didn't come out and say it was the cause. Rather pilot error, though recordings provide a more sinister scenario. That is always a possibility no matter how bizarre, it also explains why there were no stress calls
 
debris found in ocean.

1003_debris_s.ashx



http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/10/00/05/malaysia-says-plane-may-have-turned-back
 
Keef
For the majority of the flight duration across the Atlantic, Pacific or Indian ocean, planes are not in radar contact. For the period of time they aren't in radar contact they make regularly timed position reports to air traffic control and other traffic via radio. Whether this was required in the area the plane was flying I'm not sure but if it wasn't in radar contact then a transponder code would never be received.
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The area in question is monitored by Malaysian, Thai, Vienamese and Cambodian ATC. Singapore, Laos, the Philippines, China and possibly Myanmar would also keep an eye out, given their proximity. The exact borders of national airspace don't really matter; the point is that the entire Gulf of Thailand is covered.
 
Keef
For the majority of the flight duration across the Atlantic, Pacific or Indian ocean, planes are not in radar contact. For the period of time they aren't in radar contact they make regularly timed position reports to air traffic control and other traffic via radio. Whether this was required in the area the plane was flying I'm not sure but if it wasn't in radar contact then a transponder code would never be received.
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A 777 would be using SELCAL mostly and some HF but by a quick look of it it wouldn't have needed to in that flight.
 
Th3Juggernaut
it's odd but right before I saw the news clippings of this the other day I had just finished watching the new Godzilla trailers. :odd:
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And I watch every episode of Aircrash investigation on NGC. Your point is?
 
Keef
Here in the States, and probably in most other countries, there are three particular 4-digit codes that we're trained to enter into the radar transponder for either hijacking, loss of radio communication, or emergency. Whether or not any of these were in use is not known, but if the plane was in radar contact and it did use one of these codes then air traffic authorities knew about the situation immediately. The fact that nothing has been reported about this leads me to believe that the plane was either not in radar contact or if it was something catastrophic occurred which left no time for action to be taken.

For the majority of the flight duration across the Atlantic, Pacific or Indian ocean, planes are not in radar contact. For the period of time they aren't in radar contact they make regularly timed position reports to air traffic control and other traffic via radio. Whether this was required in the area the plane was flying I'm not sure but if it wasn't in radar contact then a transponder code would never be received.
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The conspiracy theorists could hypothesize that a hijacker saw the pilot/FO setting the transponder to 7500 and decided to detonate his vest.
 
BobK
The conspiracy theorists could hypothesize that a hijacker saw the pilot/FO setting the transponder to 7500 and decided to detonate his vest.
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I hypothesised that they failed to gain access to the cockpit, felt the pilot turn back and detonated their device. At the time I was really just kicking the can, but now it's one of the theories that continues to fit the few known facts. The fact that it's widely reported that the plane was turning or had turned suggests the pilots were reacting to something, either an aircraft emergency or an on-board event.

It's still very hard to imagine the sudden loss of an aircraft of that type mid-flight without human intervention. There's still a wide scope, of course, but whatever happened was surely catastrophic and almost immediate.

EDIT: Something obvious that I didn't check; does it have GE or RR engines? Seems this plane has the RR engines that had the FOHA problem which caused the power-reduction crash for BA 38 at Heathrow.

Still, a double flameout at 30,000 feet gives you time for options and communications. Was just thinking out loud.

@Jay SELCAL is just a combination of a protocol and a radio feature, like calling a phone line. If the pilots are on another channel (or muted) they see an alert for the 'call' on the alternate (or muted) frequency. The pilots were last in touch with Vietnamese ATC, they never contacted Chinese ATC although I'm not sure if VATC had handed them off or not.

The plane would have been fitted with normal radio equipment with SELCAL as a feature, but SELCAL itself isn't really germane to the radio ops - the plane had equipment conforming to the normal international standard (HF, VHF and SATCOM). SELCAL just monitors them for incoming messages.
 
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the chance for terrorists involving in the disappearance of this flight is higher now since they discovered 2 more individuals used unlawful documentations to get onto the plane. FBI just got involved in this
 
It's a chance, but still just that. Illegal immigration from this part of the world to Europe is not unheard of, and fake passports is part of the MO.
 
niky
It's a chance, but still just that. Illegal immigration from this part of the world to Europe is not unheard of, and fake passports is part of the MO.
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Plus I'm not sure how they were travelling to Europe. Maybe booking several journey legs but only travelling on one gets you in/out of intermediate passport control quicker? If the passport's stolen then the payment details may be too so I guess you can book all you like :)

Seems strange for an immigrant to attempt to go via Beijing though, especially when that flight's other regular connection is Mumbai which is a source of all kinds of regular passport shenanigans.

EDIT: Looking at the airline statement it says that they're awaiting the results from the slicks in the same area to see if they're possibly fuel from the aircraft. The wreckage is "unconfirmed", I think the fact that they haven't found more in daylight makes it unlikely to be from the plane.
 
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TenEightyOne
@Jay SELCAL is just a combination of a protocol and a radio feature, like calling a phone line. If the pilots are on another channel (or muted) they see an alert for the 'call' on the alternate (or muted) frequency. The pilots were last in touch with Vietnamese ATC, they never contacted Chinese ATC although I'm not sure if VATC had handed them off or not.

The plane would have been fitted with normal radio equipment with SELCAL as a feature, but SELCAL itself isn't really germane to the radio ops - the plane had equipment conforming to the normal international standard (HF, VHF and SATCOM). SELCAL just monitors them for incoming messages.
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I know what SELCAL is.... No need to randomly explain it to me. Why do you think I mentioned HF with it. Once SELCAL is initialised (outside or exiting VHF range) radio contact is minimised as HF is just a pain in the.... As I mentioned, none of it matters because they were still well within VHF range.
 
Jay
I know what SELCAL is.... No need to randomly explain it to me. Why do you think I mentioned HF with it. Once SELCAL is initialised (outside or exiting VHF range) radio contact is minimised as HF is just a pain in the.... As I mentioned, none of it matters because they were still well within VHF range.
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Jay
A 777 would be using SELCAL mostly and some HF but by a quick look of it it wouldn't have needed to in that flight.
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Sorry, it was because you said "they'd be using SELCAL mostly", it's not relevant to the actual comms. It's like saying "they had a Thunderbirds ringtone on their phone" or "this is the plane with the tinted visors", it's just a function that alerts to inbound comms on monitored channels (normally all).

They'd be taking some HF inbound (even if silently) to back up GPS, the area they were flying through is MWARA covered due to propensity for VHF breaks.

EDIT: SQR(1.5(AltFeet)) gives about 220 nautical miles as VHF line of sight (not adjusted for curvature), at that point with some storm clouds the chance of a clear line would have been diminished.
 
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It appears the investigation into the passengers with stolen passports has been expanded to include any relationships to the five people who did not board the flight.

Of course, this could just be the media playing up the foul play angle, possibly in the absence of any new developments - the Malaysians are still maintaining that it is one avenue of the investigation.
 
Another Pilot established contact with the MH370 :

http://www.nst.com.my/nation/genera...lot-i-established-contact-with-plane-1.503464

A BOEING 777 pilot, who was flying 30 minutes ahead of the missing Malaysia Airlines aircraft, said he established contact with MH370 minutes after he was asked to do so by Vietnamese air traffic control.

The captain, who asked to not be named, said his plane, which was bound for Narita, Japan, was far into Vietnamese airspace when he was asked to relay, using his plane's emergency frequency, to MH370 for the latter to establish its position, as the authorities could not contact the aircraft.

"We managed to establish contact with MH370 just after 1.30am and asked them if they have transferred into Vietnamese airspace.

"The voice on the other side could have been either Captain Zaharie (Ahmad Shah, 53,) or Fariq (Abdul Hamid, 27), but I was sure it was the co-pilot.

"There were a lot of interference... static... but I heard mumbling from the other end.

"That was the last time we heard from them, as we lost the connection," he told the New Sunday Times.
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And it seems the 2 passengers with stolen passports were of Asian appearance :eek: How could they passed the checkpoint and boarded the plane with Austrian and Italian Passports/names :confused:

http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big...airlines-plane-mh370-passengers-using-stolen-

The two passengers who used stolen European passports to board the Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 were of Asian appearance, said Malaysia's Home Minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi, criticising border officials who let them through.
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"I am still puzzled how come (immigration officers) cannot think, an Italian and Austrian (passengers) but with Asian facial features," he told reporters.

Mr Zahid said the investigation was conducted by a special team, led by Immigration Department Director-General Aloyah Mamat, Bernama reported.

Currently no conclusion could be made pertaining to the issue as the investigation had only commenced once the actual passport holders claimed that their passports were stolen, he said.

Mr Zahid said it was difficult to determine the authenticity of an international passport that was being brought by a passport holder because not all countries used the biometric system and bar code as in Malaysia.
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Ridox2JZGTE
And it seems the 2 passengers with stolen passports were of Asian appearance :eek: How could they passed the checkpoint and boarded the plane with Austrian and Italian Passports/names :confused:
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Come to my classroom some time. I am usually the only one who looks "Australian". All of my students are of "Asian appearance". But they are all Australians.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Another Pilot established contact with the MH370 :

http://www.nst.com.my/nation/genera...lot-i-established-contact-with-plane-1.503464





And it seems the 2 passengers with stolen passports were of Asian appearance :eek: How could they passed the checkpoint and boarded the plane with Austrian and Italian Passports/names :confused:

http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big...airlines-plane-mh370-passengers-using-stolen-
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For the passport issue USA today had an article on that talking about how tons of passports are stolen and then changed to fit stolen persons appearance and so on. The main issue with this is that even if they don't look like they're from that region they could easily be and most countries don't have a system in place that checks if said passport is stolen and so on.
 
prisonermonkeys
Come to my classroom some time. I am usually the only one who looks "Australian". All of my students are of "Asian appearance". But they are all Australians.
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Have you look at the names on the passports ? Italian Luigi Maraldi and Austrian Christian Kozel, they should at least take precaution and check the passports against Interpol database when these names have the holder with Asian appearances, if Malaysian said that, I would guess darker skin, eyes and nose of Asian characteristics.

Now what makes me curious is whether the Immigration officers talked with them at all ? Did they speak english ? How were their accents ? Did they ever speak their native language ?
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Have you look at the names on the passports ? Italian Luigi Maraldi and Austrian Christian Kozel, they should at least take precaution and check the passports against Interpol database when these names have the holder with Asian appearances, if Malaysian said that, I would guess darker skin, eyes and nose of Asian characteristics.

Now what makes me curious is whether the Immigration officers talked with them at all ? Did they speak english ? How were their accents ? Did they ever speak their native language ?
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Do you know what we call that? Racial profiling. You're assuming that because they looked Asian, but because the names on their passports were not Asian, they were guilty of something.

Didn't it occur to you that maybe Christian Kozel was adopted from Asia as a child? Or that Luigi Maraldi has an Italian father and an Asian mother, and takes after his mother? Or that one of them immigrated to Italy or Austria and changed his name by deed poll?

No, you assumed that because the name on the passport did not sound Asian, then it was immediately suspicious.
 
I didn't imply they are guilty of anything, if I was the officer checking the passports, I would at least make sure the passports are legitimate/has no flag.

Assuming their family line give them that name is okay, but for me, the names and appearance are worthy of a thorough checks, I would ask them politely about how they have those names and take a note of how they speak.
 
Immigration officers at airports are important in this age of terrorism and smuggling operations. They are like gate keepers :lol:

Seriously, I just saw the real Italian Luigi Maraldi interviewed ( he's in Thailand at the moment ), he spoke in not so fluent English with thick Italian accent, I wonder in what language and accent the stolen passport holder with "asian" appearance spoke to the Immigration officers ?
 

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