Michael Jackson dies

[mafia_boy]

I do not believe he molested any children and neither did a court of law with a 12 strong jury.

That was the second time he was accused. The first kid he paid $22 million for him to shut up. Whether the kid lied or not, the fact that he paid him off made the world look at him differently.

I think those of you who haven't got anything nice to say should just say nothing.

I've got plenty of nice stuff to say about his music as evidenced throughout the thread, but I'm not going to be blind and keep my eyes closed over such an incident and I think that's what keeps getting highlighted here, to not be as naive as some people have been and are putting MJ on a pedestal when 1/2 of these same people were the ones who were having a laugh at jokes at his expense but are now "Oh Michael, we love you!!".....PLEASE SPARE ME THE DRIVEL!!

Put it this way, and let's focus away from the music for a second......if your son/daughter wanted to sleep at the home of a guy that was REPEATEDLY accused of sexually molesting kids would you let them?? Note, I did say ACCUSED. Either way, I wouldn't have let him within 10ft of my kid. If he just wanted hugs & pure innocent love as been mentioned in the media then there were millions of adoring fans who were willing to do that. 👍

 

[Danny]

There was a coffin, front centrestage, with a dead guy in it. Last two funerals I've been to were quite similar.

It wasn't the last goodbye as funerals are. He wasn't publicly buried, there wasn't a funeral service.

How I saw it was that Janet was very eager to keep Paris's mouth and the microphone aligned (though facial cues are hard to read when someone's wearing sunglasses indoors). Paris tried to turn away once and was "encouraged" back by the wall of Jackson behind her. It's almost as if they wanted to revel in her grief...

While I comprehend the objectivity of the situation and I can understand why you'd think this, here's some food for thought. What if Paris actually wanted to say goodbye to her dad nationally and give the heartfelt message? Janet may have encouraged her so that she didn't miss out on this one oppertunity. I'd probably have done the same thing. It's rather callous to assume they wished to 'revel in her grief' as you put it.

 

[Famine]

It wasn't the last goodbye as funerals are. He wasn't publicly buried, there wasn't a funeral service.

From what I understand, the family wishes (maybe the Will too, but I'm not familiar with it) Michael to be entombed in concrete to prevent his body being interfered with and buried on the Neverland Ranch - but they'd have to petition for a change in the law for that to happen because it's illegal in California to bury a body outside of a designated cemetary - which pushes his actual burial well into 2010.


Also the last three (I forgot one) funerals I've been to didn't have the body publicly buried.

While I comprehend the objectivity of the situation and I can understand why you'd think this, here's some food for thought. What if Paris actually wanted to say goodbye to her dad nationally and give the heartfelt message? Janet may have encouraged her so that she didn't miss out on this one oppertunity. I'd probably have done the same thing. It's rather callous to assume they wished to 'revel in her grief' as you put it.

Sadly, in the case of the Jackson family, it doesn't take much imagination to ascribe callousness to them - which in some respect explains quite a great deal of Michael's many, varied and obvious issues. But I did say "It's almost as if", rather than assuming they did...


I very much doubt a normal 11 year old girl would want to stand in front of an audience and speak about her very-recently-deceased father, let alone on stage in front of 17,500 people live, 500,000,000 people watching around the world and the corpse of her father 10 feet in front of her with her face on public view for the first time since she was born. It's difficult to make character assumptions for people with highly unusual upbringings like Paris, but her reaction while speaking was perfectly normal...

 

[mr_geez]

@Famine:

First of all what made you think she was forced to say anything to the microphone? From my point of view it looked like she (Paris) wanted to tell the whole wide world what she felt about her father and it was quite touching and powerful ending to the whole event.

What kind of reaction would like to see from his sons? I think different people react in various ways in moments like that , especially children. Or do you have a problem that they were on stage with their closest family?

You are also accusing long time entertainers/musicians/people who are trained professionals in what they do that they showed some emotions during live performance and they still delivered the song without any hiccups? I think it is little bit ridiculous.

Obviously you don't think highly about his musical achievements, because if you did you would not look at this as "celebrities singing pop songs to a coffin" but rather as a tribute to an artist who influenced many of those people artistic lives and opened a lot of doors for them in show business..


@mafia_boy :

Just the fact I don't agree with statements made by Famine doesn't make me a fanboy, does it? I seperate his personal life from his music and his music was a big part of my childhood and a period of being a teenager (damn after his death I refreshed his music and it is still great after all those years). I can't deny this, hell I still think "Thriller" , "Bad" , "Off the wall" and his work with The Jacksons during Motown years influenced so many artists that I enjoy listening to nowadays that it is appropriate for me to defend his "farewell concert for fans". Plus I think making comments like the ones made by Famine just after such event are just meant to stir some controversy (or internet flame war) and show no respect to a guy who is dead after all..

 

[Famine]

First of all what made you think she was forced to say anything to the microphone? From my point of view it looked like she (Paris) wanted to tell the whole wide world what she felt about her father and it was quite touching and powerful ending to the whole event.

Look at the last few posts.

What kind of reaction would like to see from his sons? I think different people react in various ways in moments like that , especially children. Or do you have a problem that they were on stage with their closest family?

It has little to do with what I "like". Paris's reaction was typical. The two sons' reaction was atypical. I mentioned it merely as an observation.

You are also accusing long time entertainers/musicians/people who are trained professionals in what they do that they showed some emotions during live performance and they still delivered the song without any hiccups? I think it is little bit ridiculous.

I'm accusing them of... err... what?

Obviously you don't think highly about his musical achievements,

Obviously you're making assumptions now, since I haven't said anything about Michael Jackson's music. Or in fact Michael Jackson at all.

Plus I think making comments like the ones made by Famine just after such event are just meant to stir some controversy (or internet flame war) and show no respect to a guy who is dead after all..

Then I'd have to give myself an Infraction for flame-baiting, wouldn't I?

It's not flaming just because you disagree with me! Have I insulted you? Have I insulted anyone in this thread, or belittled them for their opinion? No, of course I haven't - so why are you saying my opinion isn't valid because you think it's a "flame"? Why are you telling me what I am and aren't allowed to watch and comment upon?

If my opinion upsets you so much that you have to start making assumptions and characterise me as "stirring", I suggest you just skip over it. It's not hard to miss - it's the one in indigo.

 

[mafia_boy]

@mafia_boy :

Just the fact I don't agree with statements made by Famine doesn't make me a fanboy, does it?

No, it's the way you disagreed that made me look that way about it. Don't get me wrong I saw where you were going with it all, if it wasn't worth watching to someone then why did they watch it or reply to it....but the fact that Famine DID watch it says something in itself. Unlike me, I couldn't have been 🤬 to wake up at 2.30am Sydney time to watch that, I waited until the replay around lunchtime!!

I seperate his personal life from his music and his music was a big part of my childhood and a period of being a teenager (damn after his death I refreshed his music and it is still great after all those years). I can't deny this, hell I still think "Thriller" , "Bad" , "Off the wall" and his work with The Jacksons during Motown years influenced so many artists that I enjoy listening to nowadays that it is appropriate for me to defend his "farewell concert for fans".

I agree with that too. I was still a toddler when Thriller was released and he only got better UNTIL that first molestation case. Look at the albums in that period....you had Thriller, Bad & Dangerous which are three of his greatest works. When he died, I actually spent a few hours watching YT vids of Billie Jean, Smooth Criminal, Dirty Diana and many other classics. But I WILL not defend the amount of celebrities who let's face it, we're there NOT JUST FOR MICHAEL, but as I said earlier they were trying to get more spotlight from an already dimmed out candle!!

Plus I think making comments like the ones made by Famine just after such event are just meant to stir some controversy (or internet flame war) and show no respect to a guy who is dead after all..

That's the disagreement I have there. There's no controversy over this, it's just that we have the people who are just looking blindly and going "Michael we love you" and not taking everything into account. I was one of the first to make mention that his music will forever be missed, but I'm not going to stick up for him due to his personal life. And from watching that "funeral", I can safely say I agree with Famine in some aspects. I'm not saying straight out that Paris was FORCED to make the speech, but when you can audibly hear Aunty Janet Jackson telling her to speak up it makes it look like it was a little set-up.

 

[Kelly]

Obviously you're making assumptions now, since I haven't said anything about Michael Jackson's music. Or in fact Michael Jackson at all.

You do a lot of quoting without actually having anything to say about the man or his music. Odd.

 

[Famine]

Well, I was talking about the memorial - and I originally brought you this thread, which was talking about his death. There's no actual need to refer to any part of him or his music.

 

[Kelly]

And why not? you can get a sore arse sitting on the fence too long you know.

Or is Michael Jackson and his death the only person/thing you don't have an opinion on?

 

[mafia_boy]

Because that wasn't the point of his comment, even I could see that with a guide dog Kelly. He's mentioning purely about the memorial, not MJ's music or his bizarre personal life which we are all mentioning about.

And he's a moderator, being a fence-sitter is part of the job description.

 

[Joey D]

I was kind of hoping to find out about Iran, North Korea, the riots in China, etc., but no it was nothing but a constant MJ funeral/memorial/crying about a dead guy fest on all the news channels. Even the new media on the internet was all MJ. Really there is nothing more important in the world then a dead entertainer?

Oh and I hope when I die I can have a gold coffin. That would be awesome.

 

[TheCracker]

Oh and I hope when I die I can have a gold coffin. That would be awesome.

Well, if you die with $500m in debts maybe you too can be buried in a gold coffin?

 

[mr_geez]

@mafia_boy :

The point you make about celebrities being there only to receive boost in their record sales , iTunes downloads and playing time in radio is your point of view. I want to think that they were there because they REALLY wanted to pay respect to one of the biggest stars of music industry ever and their feelings and emotions were real and not staged for TV..

Maybe I went too far with assumptions that Famine wanted to start a "flame war" but I just saw his (or yours if you are reading this Famine) comments as little bit inappropriate for the moment. I just think if you don't have anything good to say about a guy who just died it is better to say nothing at all (which is just the same thing Kelly wrote some time ago). I still think the review of the whole Memorial thing was biased and without an ounce of objectivity..

 

[Kelly]

Doesn't have an opinion on his music, his lifestyle, his controversy but has one for the guys memorial service.
Maybe Famine has a dvd collection of funerals and memorials and he's just carrying on his dvd review service. Wrong thread for that

 

[Mr P]

I think people should keep in mind the age old law of being innocent until proven guilty! And death should have some sort of out clause

Because in reality Some stuff does stick when you throw it at something! and if that something just happens to be a money machine like Jackson that lesser people would line up the streets to leave their kids with him for a few hours to have and excuse to throw accusations against him in the desperate attempt at getting a few $$$ then you will see it happen again and again in the future but more than likely on a lesser scale.

Anyone with kids will surely agree that settling out of court is not an option for a mum or a dad who loves their children and wants justice against an alleged paedophile? money is not an option and to accept out of court just shows the original sick brainwave idea paid off for the parties involved 👎

Innocent until proven guilty 👍 ... Michael R.I.P you were a legend

 

[Joey D]

Well, if you die with $500m in debts maybe you too can be buried in a gold coffin?

Guess I better get spending then, eh?

 

[Sureboss]

Well, if you die with $500m in debts maybe you too can be buried in a gold coffin?

Maybe if you crash the Cortina in to the Thames Barrier they will give you a Zonda?

 

[TheCracker]

Maybe if you crash the Cortina in to the Thames Barrier they will give you a Zonda?

Maybe.

If you help me push it fast enough.

 

[Sureboss]

I now have an image of you overtaking Dan Cox and giving him a friendly hand gesture as you go past him.

After all these years, I've finally passed him!

Then you just end up in a fireball as you forget Druids is a hairpin.

 

[Touring Mars]

I thought it was a fitting farewell for Michael Jackson - bizarre, over-the-top, and symbolic of everything that was wrong with his life and career. I liked alot of his music, and I don't deny that he was a truly gifted entertainer, but if his unhappy life and untimely death have taught us anything, it is that superstardom can be a poisoned chalice, and that buying into the whole "God-like" status thing is a terrifically bad idea. This concert didn't do much to show that anybody has learned these lessons one bit, and did nothing to dispell any of the myths that ruined his life.

 

[Famine]

Doesn't have an opinion on his music, his lifestyle, his controversy but has one for the guys memorial service.

I do have an opinion on all of those things - but there's a time and a place. The thread discussing his death and all that brought after it isn't the place for me to say what I think about the music, the dancing, the alleged drug addiction, the alleged "other thing", the plastic surgery, the religion or anything else.

Maybe Famine has a dvd collection of funerals and memorials and he's just carrying on his dvd review service. Wrong thread for that

BluRay.

Incidentally, I felt it could have done with a bit more Jarvis Cocker.

 

[Alex.]

I think his daughter was really brave to do what she did, had she not done it I think she may have looked back and regretted it.

 

[Northstar]

I think people should keep in mind the age old law of being innocent until proven guilty! And death should have some sort of out clause

Because in reality Some stuff does stick when you throw it at something! and if that something just happens to be a money machine like Jackson that lesser people would line up the streets to leave their kids with him for a few hours to have and excuse to throw accusations against him in the desperate attempt at getting a few $$$ then you will see it happen again and again in the future but more than likely on a lesser scale.

Anyone with kids will surely agree that settling out of court is not an option for a mum or a dad who loves their children and wants justice against an alleged paedophile? money is not an option and to accept out of court just shows the original sick brainwave idea paid off for the parties involved 👎

Innocent until proven guilty 👍 ... Michael R.I.P you were a legend

Not to throw this thread off-topic but. If Michael was as innocent as people think, why was there no defamation lawsuit after his second case? I know if I was accused of a crime and was found innocent I would have the lawsuit filed on the way out of the courthouse.

Also, in the Court of Public Opinion, Its "You are guilty until proven innocent, even then you're still guilty"

 

[TheCracker]

Also, in the Court of Public Opinion, Its "You are guilty until proven innocent, even then you're still guilty"

That's the 'there's no smoke without fire' rule.

 

[Danny]

5:20-onwards.

Looks like Janet was going to speak, but Paris wanted to say something.
You can see Janet being a support for Paris all through this as well.

 

[FoolKiller]

I think what has most bothered me regarding Michael Jackson's death is the amount of hypocrisy that has been shown in public opinion.

A few years back people determined he was guilty of one of the most horrible crimes you can commit. Today I have seen those same people talk about him as if he was one of the greatest people alive.

If I had thought him guilty of those crimes (I said weird does not make you a child molester and the accusations seemed fishy) I would not be mourning him as if we lost someone great. I have confronted some of these people, which includes my wife, and they cannot explain it to me.


Yes, it is sad to see a person who had such an effect on entertainment in general pass (I was not a huge fan). Yes, his death and all that followed has gotten way too much media attention (I have tuned it out). But the thing I see, and that disturbs me the most, is how public opinion appears to contradict itself as long as the media guides it to do so.

 

[Famine]

5:20-onwards.

Looks like Janet was going to speak, but Paris wanted to say something.
You can see Janet being a support for Paris all through this as well.

I can see Janet's left arm behind her pulling her forwards, I can see Paris cringe as everyone tries to adjust the mic and stroke her hair, I can see her looking down at the floor like kids do when they don't want to say something (a good example of this is when they've been naughty and you're extracting a confession from them), I can see her try to move away but get stopped by I presume her grandmother (or Latoya's really gone south) who then instantly moves to adjust the mic again and I can see her quickly turn the second time so that she can't be stopped in her tracks.


I'm still curious why the their current legal guardian has chosen to show their faces after their father kept them covered up for their entire childhood to protect their identities...

 

[Touring Mars]

Has it been long enough yet?

A new series of "Mock The Week" just started, and MJ escaped pretty lightly, given that Frankie Boyle is on the show! Frankie Boyle left the Daily Record last week after they pulled a column he wrote because it contained too many MJ jokes (it's incredibly funny, by the way, but alas I cannot post it here!)

Still, Frank Skinner proved that MJ jokes aren't necessarily offensive. He just came out with a classic comment: "Did anyone notice that Michael Jackson's dancing deteriorated as he got whiter?"

 

[Sureboss]

Is it still on their site?

Missed MTW, had World's Fastest Indian on. Ah well, repeat on Sunday night it is!

 

[Joel]

Somewhat off-topic, but today I was playing Battlefield: Bad Company, and Haggard said "You know, if I was a dictator, I would build an amusement park, a shooting range, and a zoo." Then Sweetwater replies "But then you wouldn't be a dictator, You'd be Michael Jackson" I lol'd.