More Things To Tune!

[Wolfe]

Here is a question: If every generation a game moves half the distance closer to "reality" how many generations will it take to get there?

I don't know the answer, but it isn't an infinite amount, because as you traverse each half, the amount of time it takes to traverse the next half is cut in half. Thus, the closer you get to "reality," the less time it takes to get halfway there, until traversing half of the remaining distance takes an infinitely small amount of time, and poof! You're there.

In 20 years our kids will laugh at GT4 as unrealistic.

It's funny you should say that -- my friends and I already do that today.

 

[Dave A]

I don't know the answer, but it isn't an infinite amount, because as you traverse each half, the amount of time it takes to traverse the next half is cut in half. Thus, the closer you get to "reality," the less time it takes to get halfway there, until traversing half of the remaining distance takes an infinitely small amount of time, and poof! You're there.

Only the time it takes to cut each half in half might not half in this instance, because were not talking about a set speed over distances here, rather increased detail and better code wchich technically will increase time rather than reduce it but it depends on too many factors because the right software can and does reduce it but. but ultimately there will never be an infinitely small ammount of time covering any half, because infinity is un-measurable and no matter how many numbers you put behind that decimal point, you will never reach an infinately small number, so that answer is infact, regardless fo the time being halved or not, infinity because all you'll end up doing is putting billions upon billions of zero's after that decimal point and that can go on infinitely but at no point will any number of zero's after a decimal point actually be uncountable.

 

[Jim Prower]

People just need to realize, the more you say NOS, the more free advertising you're giving to Holley. (the makers of the NOS brand of N2O systems.)

Or, it could be New-Old-Stock, as in parts made for a car that were never used, popular among restorers because they're factory pieces that are like new.

 

[Wolfe]

Only the time it takes to cut each half in half might not half in this instance, because were not talking about a set speed over distances here, rather increased detail and better code wchich technically will increase time rather than reduce it but it depends on too many factors because the right software can and does reduce it but. but ultimately there will never be an infinitely small ammount of time covering any half, because infinity is un-measurable and no matter how many numbers you put behind that decimal point, you will never reach an infinately small number, so that answer is infact, regardless fo the time being halved or not, infinity because all you'll end up doing is putting billions upon billions of zero's after that decimal point and that can go on infinitely but at no point will any number of zero's after a decimal point actually be uncountable.

Yeah, it seems that Zeno's paradox doesn't work very well for explaining why games can or cannot be "real."

 

[Dave A]

Yep , btw you never really typed that message because considering your finger can never reach the first key even, you never really typed that message .

 

[thegreatms]

Yeah, it seems that Zeno's paradox doesn't work very well for explaining why games can or cannot be "real."

Yes, I wasn't applying Zeno's paradox directly; just a similar idea. I have no doubt that in enough time games will get close enough to real that it will be difficult to tell the difference.

However the "look how far from perfect we are"(A) thought process is better than the "look how much better we got"(B) thought process. “B” is good for when games were young, however it loses perspective as graphics get better; at that point "A" is a better way to look at it.

For example, I can still tell CG scenes in the newest movies. 10 years ago people claimed they were almost perfect. If they have millions of dollars for a few short images, and still cannot trick me. How will they do it on a retail console and deal with the much large scope of games. I predict in 10 years you will still be able to pick out the CG scenes in movies. Maybe 20 years after movies get good enough to trick our senses games will get to that level. I say we are looking at least 40 years in the future here.

 

[JTSnooks]

I've always wanted more tuning ability. How about adding in custom cam grinds (where you select the LSA, intake and exhaust durations, lift, etc.), head changes, intake tract length tuning, carburetor jetting (for old cars), air/fuel mixture settings, timing adjustments, different valve types (sodium-filled, anyone?), forged internals, domed pistons, shaved heads, underdrive pulleys, removing A/C....the list goes on and on. Frankly buying an "N/A Tune" package is a little boring and disappointing to me. I want to piece all the parts together myself

 

[GM]

More 'in depth' tuning would be great, not being able to tune things such as Turbo sucks . . .

 

[pob1971]

I think that we need tuning options that will change the power and torque curves of the engine. I would like to see tuned engines have much narrower power bands so you have to work harder to match gears to speed. To narrow a power band could cause less performance. I also think turbos in GT4 don't have enough lag. I like the idea of been able to adjust the map for more driveability at the expense of outright power.

With regards to GT becoming as good as real life. Never until we can be immersed with a 360 degree monitor, sitting in a seat capable of generating motion and G forces.

 

[Roo09511]

I love everything JTSnooks said (however I am far to lazy to quote the post). Also if you do put a new cam and what not on on say... a Vette... I WANT THAT INCREDIBLE SOUND! Games miss that by long shots... all of them.

 

[The Uncreated]

Zeno's Paradox becomes invalid the moment you recognize you've "arrived" at the point the paradox says you'd never reach. It's valid between A and B, but not at B itself. It's said the hare never manages to reach the tortoise with his head start, and that remains true until boom -- the hare does. Paradox goes out the door.

Uncreated

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

I'd like a much larger list of buyable upgrades, and make some of them prequisites. For example, if you want to upgrade your exaust to a giant racing straght pipe, you must first upgrade your intake system so you don't lose power from lack of backpressure.

 

[Gnalcarion]

What about having the ability to adjust the cam-timing yourself?

 

[robwells13]

to fit a torque sensing diff insted of LS diff!

 

[Alex_77au]

I think they should have an array of options for the diff like detroit lockers, full spools and other sort's of lsds like mechanical/hydraulic.

 

[mvandepas]

This all sounds really awesome, so long as they give you the upgrade options periodically and not all at once. What I (and I bet most of you!) tend to do is just save up the cash and skip the sport and semi-racing upgrades and shoot straight to the racing mods.

It would be better (and make the game seem longer) if throughout the game, you were awarded with new upgrades/mods. This way we would have no choice but to utilise the "crap" mods to get anywhere in the game.

Its too easy at the moment to get fast cars in gt. I bet most of us could start the game from scratch and in the same day end up with a fully tuned GTR, or whatever.

It would be so much more fun if we had no choice (because of timing limitations and slow releasing of tuning options) but to race damn ugly Demio A-Spec for a good few days before being able to have the cash to buy a equally ugly 1980's supra. It would take a good few weeks before you could even think about buying a 276hp+ vehicle. The exciting part for me about gt is being able to tune and drive fast cars, so seems a waste of money to buy the game if I could rent it for a few days and manage the same.

 

[ka24de-t]

Ok I know that there is already a thread about the wish list but it has gotten up to 65 pages and isn't all about the tuning/performance of the car so I am making this one specificly for tuning and performance.

I would love:

specific engine computer options and there own sort of tuning to each one of them
examples:
stage 1 apexi safc, boost controllers ... (limited tuning)
stage 2 greddy emanage / biggy back
stage 3 AEM EMS / stand alone ( complete tuning of the engine: fuel, ignition, timing, 2steps, diffrent settings on wich gas 91oct or race gas around 116oct )

diffrent turbo setups,
examples: size of turbo's, diffrent exhaust manifolds, size of downpipes , Intercooler piping, cam shafts, wastegate opening sounds

actual effects on parts aplyed to the car
examples : bigger durration cams will get you rougher idle, less rpm power in the lower ranges / more power in the higher ranges

wastegate sound when it opens the best sound ever!

backfires when letting go of gas (maybe not so many as gt4, or when the car is running really rich (9.5:1)



I know there will be some people that wont be able to do the tuning by them selfs, there should be an option of just " getting it tuned by a tuner/game" and get 30hp less or something like that and then be able to work over what the tuner did. ofcourse I am not saying to make it like real life where every thing has to be correct with no nock and not higher then 13:1 afr for turbo'd cars... but it shouldnt be simple like nfsu2 !!!


Ok thats all I got in my mind right know I am sure I had alot more before making this thread lol so tell me what you want for upgrades in performance

 

[noobie 4 ever]

Good thread.......well for everyone's information I'm a Honda fan and I would love engine swaps and stuff like that. Hopefully PD will have a used engines thing where you could buy used engines lot so when you buy the engine you could swap out you're stock one for a nicer, more powerful engine. For the honda engines only, VTEC controllers would be nice so you could decide where the VTEC kicks in. Also hopefully they give you the choice of just springs, shocks, or springs and shocks, or coilovers. Also I would like blown engines

 

[djblackmon]

More tuning shops.

Some in mind are HKS, Greddy, Mine's, HPA, and so on

 

[Michael88]

I dont think that any car manufacturer want GT players change the beloved engines of their cars with different ones. That would be a big license problem.

But engine swap would be awesome.

 

[djblackmon]

He means like put a Honda Integra Type R motor in a Honda Civic EG Hatchback which makes them really fast, a lot of people do it. Or you can put a Toyota MR2 motor in a Toyota Camry also a lot of people do that

 

[El Jarretto]

I would kill if they'd let me swap the stock 1100cc on the Beetle and the 1600cc on the Ghia with a N/A 200hp 2332cc engine and tune from there.

 

[ka24de-t]

I think the swap option should only incude engines that are from the same model of car
example
putting a 2jz gte engine from a turbo'ed supra into a N/A supra

I dont like the fact that to take an engine from a diffrent named car and putting it into yours.

 

[djblackmon]

Well in real life its the biggest fad. Just like the Nissan 240's w/ sr-20dets from Silvias. Or Honda Integra's with a K24a from a TSX.

 

[Scaff]

A thread entitled "More things to Tune" already exists, you may have missed it as it was at the top of page 2.

Given that I can see no need for two different threads on the same subject I have merged them together.

Now its all in one place, have a read of the earlier stuff it may be of interest.

Regards

Scaff

 

[shabba]

You could change the pressure (down) to one of 4 (or was it 5?) settings to reduce the boost lag. Some of the boost lag was horrendous after recvoering from a spin; it would make a me a "believer" of tuning NA cars instead of turbos (when possible) in that game.

Even though most hardcore Driving sim players don't seem to have a very high opinion of games like NFSU2 or Juiced, one thing I did like with Juiced was the ability to put the car on the dyno and actually customise your power/torque maps for different racing modes. It was a fairly simple interface where you just dragged the bars up and down for each 1000rpm of the engine's range - and moving the settings at one end affected the other end (so if you boosted up your top end all the way, the bottom end fell away, and vice versa).

In reality different types of racing require different engine profiles - especially where 'restrictions' apply. WRC and JGTC are two examples - limited horsepower made up for by boosting up torque. To do that you have to customise your entire engine profile - boost, fuel, ignition, cams and timing.

Even from track to track it is useful to be able to optimise your engine performance, as well as things like gear ratios and such.
A long, open track can have high top end power and taller gears, as you are going to be spending most of your time high in the engine range.
With a slow, twisty track, though, you could experiment between:
1) high top end power, narrow powerband, close gears, or
2) higher midrange torque, broader torque band, wider gears.
If you want to be able to pull away hard from corners without having to row through the gears, then option 2 may be more beneficial.

Just some thoughts.

 

[m7ammed]

I really would like GT to freshen up the tuning style its seems to be the same as in GT3 , what I really would like is more info about tunning , turbos , clutches ....ect , and what happens if you do that , how does XX work ? whats the difference between a SC and a turbo....ect I know some of the answer and most of you do , but remember there is always a new motor head generation with a gt release , they are young and they need to be taught how ,why to tune and options they have....ect

 

[HKS_T51KAI]

Its true that the younger Generations needs to be taught these thing, like whats the difference between Sc and turbo, but things like Tuning ECU's and setting different cam angles is more for the mechanic/enthusiaist, not for a 13yr old kid. But better, what GT4 had shown is more than enough for the youngesters. Yes there should be more advance tuning options, but only like
1 in every 1000 person would know what this does, and how to tune this.
What i think, there should be 2 different menus of tuning, advance and the very basic, just like GT4.
Just my thoughts though.
I'd hope in GT5, they include virtual dyno, not some facts and power figures to get you hiped up, i want to see raw power.

 

[shabba]

You could possibly put in a 'difficulty' setting in your options to increase or decrease the level of tuning involvement - so at very basic levels just have a simple GT3 style of tuning, up to more involved.

The problem is once you start programming variable performance profiles for each car, and writing in the physical performance for the car in each profile, you are creating a HUGE amount of work, programming code and, most importantly, disk space. I don't know if I like the idea of having to get a separate disk for each car because they are so complex and data intensive that you can only fit one on a DVD. Even with Blue Ray or HDDVD, it's going to be a space hog...

 

[Dave A]

No you don't have to do that, you just attatch each difficulty or driving aids to a set of performance altering multipliers, for example you would multiply the properties to increse the grip of the tyres ect, you don't need a new profile for each car, just something that alters the current one. That's what happens when you alter the cars settings.