Motorsport Entries/Rumours that never came to be

Hideki Noda twice missed out on a drive in 1995. He was supposed to take over from Domenico Schiattarella at Simtek but they went bust after 5 races then Forti wanted to hire him to replace Roberto Moreno towards the end of the season but he was denied a superlicence despite contesting the last 3 races of 1994 for Larrousse.

Speaking of Larrousse, they intended to continue into 1995 with Christophe Bouchut and Eric Helary, though several other drivers were linked to the team at the time.
 
If rumours are to be believed, McLaren almost signed Rubens Barrichello twice:
After listening to his Beyond The Grid episode, Barrichello was also close to signing with Benetton in 1996 alonside Jean Alesi. Benetton went with Gerhard Berger, essentially swapping the two for Michael Schumacher, because Berger brought a more lucrative alcohol sponsor; checking the B196 again, it looks like Kingfisher beer.
 
Toyota’s 2010 F1 effort, with Kamui Kobayashi and Sebastien Buemi as the drivers, with a car basically completed and all the promise from 2009 - Jarno Trulli could have won at Spa, was second at Suzuka, should have won in Bahrain - I always had a soft spot for Toyota in F1 and it didn’t take them that long to be competitive, seeing how brilliant they went on to be in LMP1 always makes me think they should have stuck around for longer given the competitiveness of their 2009 car. They were a slow burn but they were on the right track, I thought. Then the world economic crisis or whatever they dubbed it saw to them, BMW, Honda, even Renault.

In terms of drivers, I’d have loved to see Dario Franchitti get the Jaguar drive circa 2001.
 
Toyota’s 2010 F1 effort, with Kamui Kobayashi and Sebastien Buemi as the drivers, with a car basically completed and all the promise from 2009 - Jarno Trulli could have won at Spa, was second at Suzuka, should have won in Bahrain - I always had a soft spot for Toyota in F1 and it didn’t take them that long to be competitive, seeing how brilliant they went on to be in LMP1 always makes me think they should have stuck around for longer given the competitiveness of their 2009 car. They were a slow burn but they were on the right track, I thought. Then the world economic crisis or whatever they dubbed it saw to them, BMW, Honda, even Renault.

In terms of drivers, I’d have loved to see Dario Franchitti get the Jaguar drive circa 2001.
Yes and Michael Andretti was supposed to drive for Ferrari in 1992.
 
Toyota’s F1 effort
...is one of the biggest wastes of money in motorsports history. They cancelled a promising sports car project for it. And it's not like they half-arsed it; they did their due diligence, they had the finances needed and came away with absolutely nothing to show for it.
 
...is one of the biggest wastes of money in motorsports history. They cancelled a promising sports car project for it. And it's not like they half-arsed it; they did their due diligence, they had the finances needed and came away with absolutely nothing to show for it.
Shouldn't this really be in the "Failures of Motorsports..." thread?
 
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Shouldn't this really be in the "Failures of Motorsports..." thread?

 
...is one of the biggest wastes of money in motorsports history. They cancelled a promising sports car project for it. And it's not like they half-arsed it; they did their due diligence, they had the finances needed and came away with absolutely nothing to show for it.
Also the 2001 car would have raced if V12 engines hadn't been banned.

(My 100th Post!)
 
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I think one of Toyota’s biggest mistakes was that, even with all the money they had, they persevered with such average drivers. They ran Salo, McNish, Panis, then had Ralf Schumacher and Jarno Trulli for three seasons then Trulli and Glock. 2005 and 2009, in those two years they came so close to victories with the drivers they had that I suspect those were really good cars that could really have started something.
 
Trulli and Ralf Schumacher was their strongest driver line up and it is worth pointing our that their best finish of 4th in the Constructors in 2005 was also the same year that Ferrari had an uncompetitive year for once and midfield rivals BAR were banned for two races that year, allowing for more point-scoring opportunities.

Incidentally, Salo said that the TF101 test car was the biggest piece of 🤬 that he'd ever driven; it was overweight and handled badly yet I think it looks absolutely incredible.

6gxq5fzecux31-1300-x-975-1210x642.jpg
 
Trulli and Ralf Schumacher was their strongest driver line up and it is worth pointing our that their best finish of 4th in the Constructors in 2005 was also the same year that Ferrari had an uncompetitive year for once and midfield rivals BAR were banned for two races that year, allowing for more point-scoring opportunities.

Incidentally, Salo said that the TF101 test car was the biggest piece of 🤬 that he'd ever driven; it was overweight and handled badly yet I think it looks absolutely incredible.

6gxq5fzecux31-1300-x-975-1210x642.jpg
It does look good I must say.
 
FEu6kUAWYAkSiT7.jpeg


Ayrton Senna came close to joining Ferrari before he died even if Ferrari was doing really bad at the time. Senna believed joining Ferrari would have been his final F1 drive before retiring.

As a Ferrari fan it hurts how the GOAT nearly came to Ferrari 😔
 
Trulli and Ralf Schumacher was their strongest driver line up and it is worth pointing our that their best finish of 4th in the Constructors in 2005 was also the same year that Ferrari had an uncompetitive year for once and midfield rivals BAR were banned for two races that year, allowing for more point-scoring opportunities.

Incidentally, Salo said that the TF101 test car was the biggest piece of 🤬 that he'd ever driven; it was overweight and handled badly yet I think it looks absolutely incredible.

6gxq5fzecux31-1300-x-975-1210x642.jpg
The 2001 test car was lovely, but apparently really awful. There’s an episode of the Bring Back V10s podcast (which I’d massively recommend to anyone unaware of it) about that test year and let’s just say there was a reason they rarely made its lap times public.

I wish they’d kept with that livery for 2002 though.

I’ve always had a weird soft spot for Toyota’s F1 effort. I know, objectively, they wasted a lot of money and never delivered what they should have, but I’d struggle to argue they were as big a failure as, say, Jaguar were. They at least came close. I remember Trulli was really competitive early in 2005 and took two second places, but also they took a fair few very low fuel qualifying laps to maybe make themselves look quicker than they were. Ralf Schumacher in Japan comes to mind. I never rated Ralf or Trulli by then. Both were well past their best, and even in their prime they weren’t world beaters.
 
Toyota’s 2010 F1 effort, with Kamui Kobayashi and Sebastien Buemi as the drivers, with a car basically completed and all the promise from 2009 - Jarno Trulli could have won at Spa, was second at Suzuka, should have won in Bahrain - I always had a soft spot for Toyota in F1 and it didn’t take them that long to be competitive, seeing how brilliant they went on to be in LMP1 always makes me think they should have stuck around for longer given the competitiveness of their 2009 car. They were a slow burn but they were on the right track, I thought. Then the world economic crisis or whatever they dubbed it saw to them, BMW, Honda, even Renault.

In terms of drivers, I’d have loved to see Dario Franchitti get the Jaguar drive circa 2001.
Makes one wonder who would have taken Buemi's place at Toro Rosso alongside Jaime Alguersuari if Toyota had continued into 2010.
 
Look at the end of the first paragraph. The US-based Lola-Ford bit has got to be one of the wildest rumours in F1 history.

They cancelled the last year of the TS020 project because of f1...
De Cortanze told in an interview in French, that the TS020 was due to have a massive update for 2000, the study was over, and from his would have been a rocketship. Sadly it never came and he used all the studies from Toyota to make the Modification of the Courage C60 for Henri Pescarolo, from 2002.
Maybe the TS020 would have finally won a race in 2000...
 
Considering how Ford's form tailed off in 1995 and got considerably worse in the following years, James Thompson had a lucky escape there.
 
2003 British Touring Car Championship:

Jason Plato nearly made his (first) BTCC return a year early. In 2003, Gary Ayles tried to hire Plato to partner Gavin Pyper. This would have reunited JP with the Vauxhall Astra Coupe with which he'd won the 2001 title as the team were stepping up from the Production Class. The deal ultimately fell through.
 
@Har1MAS1415 Some of your threads have interesting topics or the germ of a good idea but look at your own threads carefully; you're talking to yourself.

The last five posts in this thread alone have been you over the course of six weeks. And it's a similar story in the dozen or so threads that you have started. You don't need to flood the board with e v e r y related thought you have. Just try and think about the quality and consistency of your posts.
 
@Har1MAS1415 Some of your threads have interesting topics or the germ of a good idea but look at your own threads carefully; you're talking to yourself.

The last five posts in this thread alone have been you over the course of six weeks. And it's a similar story in the dozen or so threads that you have started. You don't need to flood the board with e v e r y related thought you have. Just try and think about the quality and consistency of your posts.
I know, I have just realised that myself, I tend to get carried away very easily.

Didn't think I'd started that many threads though.
 
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I tend to get carried away very easily.
It's fine, I've been guilty of it myself at times. Good to be aware of it and improve as a poster. I have enjoyed some of the topics and it's a shame when a neat thread idea doesn't quite take off how you'd like.
 
It's fine, I've been guilty of it myself at times. Good to be aware of it and improve as a poster. I have enjoyed some of the topics and it's a shame when a neat thread idea doesn't quite take off how you'd like.
I agree.

I am used to that final sentiment happening to me.

In my case, it is also a trait of being on the Autism Spectrum.
 
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Regarding pretty much every Finnish F1 driver and a few others:

As a driver, Leo Kinnunen was very much respected in the paddock - but in contrast, his career management was extremely rejectful. Kinnunen was reluctant to learn any English (even replying to his Porsche sportscar team boss John Wyer who had encouraged Kinnunen to study some English, that "if Wyer had anything important to say, he should learn some Finnish...) which was a part of the reason why he wasn't retained for 1971, and which, certainly, significantly hindered his career. Interestingly, a certain mr Ecclestone was also very keen on Kinnunen, but to little avail. Bernie had been impressed by mr Kinnunen early on his junior formula career, and had negotiated him a deal to race for the Lotus works F2 team in 1969 (and he did it free of charge - imagine that of Bernie!) with a deal that Ecclestone considered a bargain for the driver - which Kinnunen subsequently declined because he didn't want to pay for the seat but wanted to get paid instead. Bernie didn't give up though, and a year later the man offered Kinnunen his management services again - which Kinnunen declined, because he didn't understand why any foreigner should manage him. After a couple of years winning in Interserie, Kinnunen finally thought he was ready to join F1 at the end of 1973 - at which point, his Finnish management naturally contacted Tyrrell enquiring for a spare car for the AAW team (which, shockingly enough for the WCC team, they didn't have), then McLaren (same story), then Bernie - who was still prepared to offer Kinnunen a 2 year contract in Brabham's works team, which Leo declined because he only wanted a 1 year contract and wasn't keen on the idea of working with British people...and so on, and so on, until John Surtees finally agreed to sell the amateurish Finns that rubbish car - an operation so amateurish that it basically ended Kinnunen's career.

- Mikko Kozarowitzky had some half-baked deals with Frank Williams but lacked the funding; then was involved in the 1978 Tiga project, which went bust.

- Kojima had planned to enter F1 for 1978 full time with Keke Rosberg as a driver, but that plan went bust when Kunimitsu Takahashi totaled the chassis in testing. Still, on short contracts at Theodore, ATS, Newman/Haas (Can-Am) and Wolf, Rosberg was able to impress enough to finally secure a 3 year contract at Fittipaldi - which turned out to be an unlucky break for him because the contract tied him with the team for 1981, even despite the Fittipaldi team losing much of the backing they had had, and McLaren's keen interest in Keke's services. Only in late 1981 Rosberg was able to break the contract for unpaid salaries and looked to be out of contract for 1982 - until Alan Jones announced his retirement from Williams, which turned out to be a very lucky break for Keke since he was able to secure a single test session with the team. Patrick Head was impressed with Keke - however, Frank still tried to lure back several other candidates, namely Mario Andretti, John Watson and Alan Jones, before having to settle with "only" Keke for 1982... Well, we all remember how that decision turned out for them, and Keke was still a hot commodity in late 1985 when he was leaving them. Enzo Ferrari wanted to sign him for both 1986 and 1987, but Keke had already decided he'd almost had enough of F1 and contacted McLaren for a final 1 year contract instead. The book also goes to great lengths describing Rosberg's...difficult relationship with the Finnish press at the time, but neglects mention the 1991 shenanigans with the rumoured contract Eddie Jordan offered Keke for Spa...

- Henri Toivonen was a talented driver in open wheelers in the seventies (as well as WRC, obviously) and would have went on with that trajectory if not for his father Pauli (also a prosperous rally driver) who thought rallying was much safer.

- Jari Nurminen (a F3000 driver from the mid 80's) had a couple of Arrows tests for 1987 with strong support from his personal sponsor Barclay who also backed Arrows. Despite being a second slower than Danner in the test, the parties had already signed a F1 race contract for the year - but failed to get a superlicence from the FIA after the Finnish motorsport organization lobbied against it, because they thought a small nation would not support more than one driver at once, and JJ Lehto was their favoured boy. Nurminen tried again in 1988 signing a pre-contract with Coloni, but was none the luckier with the motorsport organization still firmly thinking Nurminen was not good enough.

- Peculiarly those Finnish funding packages "reserved" for JJ Lehto eventually landed on fellow Rosberg protegé Mika Häkkinen. Therefore JJ ever brought little backing with him, and the small money deals he got with Onyx, Dallara and Sauber were mainly for his talent and were pretty much the best he could hope for - he never really had better offers than those. Late in 1993 Keke (his manager) pulled a "real miracle", having been very proactive with the Benetton deal they were able to secure for 1994 - but it all went to the ruins with the winter testing crash at Stowe where he almost died, which destroyed JJ's spine and made his driving a painful exercise for much over a year.

- On the other hand Rosberg genuinely thought Mika Häkkinen was the real deal and took a big risk early on his career: the Finnish funding package coming from several sponsors still only covered roughly half the money required for the Lotus deal (a few million dollars / year) - so Keke paid half of it himself, which was a large amount of money back then. Obviously it paid off, with Mika showing so much talent that he soon had Williams, McLaren and Ligier on his tails - the story of 1993, with Williams forgetting to register for 1993 and Peter Collins playing hard ball for that, eventually forcing Williams to cancel Mika's contract and Häkkinen to settle with McLaren, is obviously well documented. The details on Häkkinen's post-retirement negotiations on the book conflict with Mika's own words, thought: in a recent interview Häkkinen says that he was in fact negotiating with Williams for the 2006 seat, not the 2005 one as mentioned in the book, and he was not 100% committed to returning at that point. However, both the interview and the book are consistent with the claims that before the November 2006 McLaren test, Häkkinen was genuinely training up, planning a return and Dennis had genuinely offered him a 2007 race seat (presumably Lewis'?) if Mika wanted to - but an ECU problem ruined the test, made Mika's times incomparable and Häkkinen says that at that point, he decided to quit for good because then he remembered again why he had retired in the first place: F1 was essentially "solving a problem after a problem" and he didn't miss that part of it at all.

- Mika Salo's drink driving incident in 1990 directed his career off the rails to Japan, but the knowledge he gained on the Japanese tracks eventually brought him to F1: Jordan already became somewhat interested in his services for Aida in 1994 but he failed to find the money; however just before Suzuka Lotus called Salo at midnight and asked him to pony up 20 000 dollars at a very short notice in exchange for a one reace deal: Mika duly did and the next day brought the money to Lotus in a Mickey Mouse bag in yens... His performance was so impressive that Lotus gave him the Adelaide drive for free, and for the next year Tyrrell snapped him up with a 3 year contract before even beginning the sponsor negotiations with Nokia. Salo had the same fate as Rosberg did, though: Ferrari were interested in signing Salo for 1996, but mr Tyrrell refused to break the contract. Salo also describes in the book how he didn't like Tom Walkinshaw and Peter Sauber, almost lost the opportunity to replace Schumacher because Mika's wedding was scheduled for when Jean Todt thought he was supposed to be hiding from the press at Maranello, that Ferrari wanted to retain him for 2000 so much they tried to break Rubens' fresh contract, and that it was his idea to sign Kimi for Sauber and not Peter Sauber's who first was reluctant to sign it...obviously, all this to be taken with a grain of salt considering it's Salo saying this.

- We know much of Kimi's career trajectory - the few interesting details on the book were that Rosberg declined to manage Kimi because he thought Kimi was not marketable as he "couldn't speak" his Sauber seat cost 4 million dollars - of which the Robertsons paid a large majority themselves, and that by mid 2012 (apparently...) each of Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren were interested in signing Kimi - who declined them all to stay with Lotus for 2013.

- Kovalainen had his way to F1 paved by Flavio, who declined Paul Stoddart's test drive 2004 - race drive 2005 offer and promoted him straight to the works team from a testing role; and then got lucky with the McLaren seat opening after effectively getting fired from Renault even before Briatore clinched the deal with Alonso. After the Crashgate Kovalainen thought he could be his own manager - which ended up being a bad decision in 2010, for McLaren were not interested in renewing his contract, 2nd option Toyota pulled out, and he could not come to agreeable terms with Sauber - effectively destining him to Loterham for the rest of his career.

- Nothing special about Bottas, except that his backing for Williams by the Finnish companies Kemppi and Wihuri was estimated around the figure of 6 million dollars every year. Some whispers say they are bringing the same sum to Mercedes.
 
Ukyo Katayama was close to a move to an undisclosed "top team" for 1995. Based on the 1994 drivers market, it would have most likely been McLaren looking for a partner for Mika Häkkinen or, a longer shot, Benetton looking for a partner for Michael Schumacher. Katayama has never gone into a great deal about it but it is believed to be that he 'failed' a medical; he was actually diagnosed with cancer in his back during 1994 and this obviously would have held him back.

His cancer diagnosis wasn't disclosed until years after his retirement. He delayed treatment of his cancer due to his Grand Prix commitments and later admitted that racing was painful. He kept the whole thing a secret because he didn't want people to take pity on him or feel sorry for him. It would go some way to explaining how he went from a contextually great season in 1994 to then losing his speed 1995-97.
 
For anyone who remembers A1GP ("The World Cup of Motorsport"), there were once plans for the series to gain F2 and F3 style feeder series.

Too bad the plans had to be announced in 2008 of all years.....

 

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