- 15,390
- TRAPPIST-1g
- ProjectWHaT
From another perspective
Motorsport OMG / WTF moments - Racing Funnies, Fails, Crashes, And Randomness
- Thread starter Furinkazen
- 5,489 comments
- 567,482 views
- 11,985
- Australia
- I_Grayson_Fox_I
Was browsing youtube when this video popped up into the feed.
This got me wondering.
Can the racing body(FIA, IMSA) be legally responsible for the death of a driver who died as a result of a sausage kerb?
The FIA/IMSA have not banned their use and the FIA/IMSA surely would know by now that these just launch cars into the air.
Or will the FIA/IMSA only ban them after a driver gets killed by them?
Yes tracks are not owned by FIA/IMSA but if they deem sausage kerb devices unsafe the track owners will remove them, not only so that the track can be used by FIA/IMSA events but when these bodies tend to say X is unsafe, track owners do tend to listen as even if the track is not used by FIA/IMSA they will follow, just to avoid any possible litigation.
To me its like when the city government has been told that this big tree looks dead, it has been dropping big branches and you want to cut it down before it falls over, they say NO.
Only for it to then fall down, kill someone then get sued by that persons family as they had prior knowledge of the hazard.
Then they make "Sweeping Changes"
This got me wondering.
Can the racing body(FIA, IMSA) be legally responsible for the death of a driver who died as a result of a sausage kerb?
The FIA/IMSA have not banned their use and the FIA/IMSA surely would know by now that these just launch cars into the air.
Or will the FIA/IMSA only ban them after a driver gets killed by them?
Yes tracks are not owned by FIA/IMSA but if they deem sausage kerb devices unsafe the track owners will remove them, not only so that the track can be used by FIA/IMSA events but when these bodies tend to say X is unsafe, track owners do tend to listen as even if the track is not used by FIA/IMSA they will follow, just to avoid any possible litigation.
To me its like when the city government has been told that this big tree looks dead, it has been dropping big branches and you want to cut it down before it falls over, they say NO.
Only for it to then fall down, kill someone then get sued by that persons family as they had prior knowledge of the hazard.
Then they make "Sweeping Changes"
- 35,300
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
As far as I'm aware, Laguna Seca is the only track IMSA uses that has actual Sausage curbs. Otherwise, they usually aren't a big deal and even that wreck there at Road America just seems like a freak occurrence as those curbs aren't even actual sausage curbs. Daytona DID temporarily have them installed earlier this year (basically the same size as the "Turtles" at Indy and Charlotte) but the drivers objected big time and they were gone by the time the Rolex 24 showed up.
Honestly, I think the FIA would be the ones mostly responsible since they seem to be the ones that hand out the Grade designations for tracks (though admittedly I'm not sure if Curbing is included as something they deemed mandatory). Its also worth noting they have not one but two world championships that uses many of the same tracks featuring said curbing
Honestly, I think the FIA would be the ones mostly responsible since they seem to be the ones that hand out the Grade designations for tracks (though admittedly I'm not sure if Curbing is included as something they deemed mandatory). Its also worth noting they have not one but two world championships that uses many of the same tracks featuring said curbing
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Pete05
Premium
- 7,095
- Melbourne, Australia
I think you will find that no driver (or anyone working at a motor racing event) is permitted to take part unless they sign an Indemnity Form absolving all others from legal action that may stem from the death of an individual.
I know that was the situation when I was a Flag Marshall or competing as a driver or part of a crew. I even had to sign one before being taken for a hot lap after winning a competition.
- 11,985
- Australia
- I_Grayson_Fox_I
It may not be apart of the "Grading" but owning a track is not cheap, so I cant see a track owner buying these kerbs willy nilly.
Plus did the FIA not request that sausage kerb put on parabolica only to then quicky remove it after sending an F3 crashing into the fence in 2019?
What about family or even spectator who gets killed by a flying car.
But will that wavier also cover wilful neglect?
The FIA know these kerbs do this, to ignore it would be criminal since you knew the potential for disaster.
But just cause you cant be sued does not mean the police cant come after you.
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- 4,025
- Derbyshire, UK
- DG Silva
While I don't agree with the use of sausage kerbs, primarily because of the footage shown in the videos, the vast majority of the incidents were caused by the drivers not taking care, NOT because of the kerbs themselves:
Road America - number 7 drove over the kerb rather than backing out.
Silverstone - Nissany pushed the other driver off the circuit, which was only ever going to cause them to lose and so smash into another car/tyre barrier
Macau - this was a genuine accident, but was caused by driver being pushed onto the kerbs. Given the lack of room, they would've smacked the armco and still catapulted into another car.
Monza - completely ignoring track limits
Daytona - was always going to hit the tyre wall because they took too much speed
Formula E - Nic Prost deliberately smashed into Heidfeld and broke his suspension. Even if there were no sausage kerb, he would have smashed into the tyre wall
Numerous Spa incidents - completely ignoring track limits/aero understeer (except for the Bus Stop GP2 incident, no one at fault there, but still would've ended up going into the barrier)
Monaco - avoidable, but caused by ignoring track limits - there used to be an armco barrier there
And so on.....
No one wants to see an injury occur, or a race cut short because of these kerbs, but drivers need to stop driving as if they don't exist. Idiot driving is what causes these incidents, not the existence of sausage kerbs.
The only other solution is (and I believe this has already been suggested in this thread or another) is to have a GPS transmitter fitted to the car which is connected to the ECU, with a power reduction applied to the next available reduction zone (think of a reverse DRS) when a transgression is made.
Road America - number 7 drove over the kerb rather than backing out.
Silverstone - Nissany pushed the other driver off the circuit, which was only ever going to cause them to lose and so smash into another car/tyre barrier
Macau - this was a genuine accident, but was caused by driver being pushed onto the kerbs. Given the lack of room, they would've smacked the armco and still catapulted into another car.
Monza - completely ignoring track limits
Daytona - was always going to hit the tyre wall because they took too much speed
Formula E - Nic Prost deliberately smashed into Heidfeld and broke his suspension. Even if there were no sausage kerb, he would have smashed into the tyre wall
Numerous Spa incidents - completely ignoring track limits/aero understeer (except for the Bus Stop GP2 incident, no one at fault there, but still would've ended up going into the barrier)
Monaco - avoidable, but caused by ignoring track limits - there used to be an armco barrier there
And so on.....
No one wants to see an injury occur, or a race cut short because of these kerbs, but drivers need to stop driving as if they don't exist. Idiot driving is what causes these incidents, not the existence of sausage kerbs.
The only other solution is (and I believe this has already been suggested in this thread or another) is to have a GPS transmitter fitted to the car which is connected to the ECU, with a power reduction applied to the next available reduction zone (think of a reverse DRS) when a transgression is made.
- 731
- Australia
- Twisteddrift
When Pironi had he's accident I thought it would remove these kerbs. It was week on from the events in Spa that they would get rid of anything that we would see a driver or a marshall being hurt or worse, but nothing. Abosultey nothing has happened and I'm afraid nothing will happen until something awful happens. I hope in this day and age that it doesn't get to that stage.
- 23,974
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
As the last GP at Austria has shown, the alternative is to report and penalize any driver who ventures beyond track limits, but that annoys the drivers and artifially alters the race results due to time penalties. None of which is very palatable to drivers, teams or fans.
Pete05
Premium
- 7,095
- Melbourne, Australia
Thankfully, they've moved the fuel cell in front of the rear wheels or that would've been another car up in flames as has happened in the past with impacts like this.
Think Owen & Reindler at Barbagallo and Morris & Larkham at Oran Park.
Heimgartner will be lucky if he gets away without a penalty for this. As soon as Randle fails to get away, the Marshalls behind the pit wall start waving their yellow flags. Heimgartner passes at least two points before he impacts Randle. The Stewards won't like that.
ROAD_DOGG33J
Premium
- 14,268
- IL, USA
- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
