Motorsports Trivia Thread!
- Thread starter Cap'n Jack
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180LM - 15DIS - 203LM
What car am i?
What car am i?
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Are you
EDIT: showed up first at the 1986 Le Mans 24h in white, bearing #180. Showed up again at the 1987 Daytona 3h with #15. Then it appeared at the 1987 Le Mans 24h in Rothmans colors and with #203 (this is the livery I remembered).
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Pete05
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That's some brilliant lateral thinking.
The car is relatively fresh in my mind as I almost bought a scale model of it recently, and yet, the penny didn't drop.
Bravo.
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That would be correct!
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I recorded every Lap Record of every circuit and layout in Formula 1 history, and compiled the results to see which drivers and cars set the most Fastest Laps in F1 history and put it into a nice graphic to post on Reddit. The top two on both lists are massively unsurprising, but going through the list of drivers and cars you'll spot a few surprises, either drivers high up, very low (Senna) or some surprise names on the lists completely!
"Lap Record" was classed as the Fastest of the race Fastest Laps set on a specific layout of a track. All data was used from https://www.statsf1.com/, with some help from https://www.racingcircuits.info/ to determine how much of a lap distance change actually meant a new layout, and therefore a new lap record to be set.
"Lap Record" was classed as the Fastest of the race Fastest Laps set on a specific layout of a track. All data was used from https://www.statsf1.com/, with some help from https://www.racingcircuits.info/ to determine how much of a lap distance change actually meant a new layout, and therefore a new lap record to be set.
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Indeed it's in many cases "last man standing" as @Barra333 said, and that doesn't necessarily mean these stats show us how things were when each of these drivers stopped racing. But it is very interesting and a great work, thanks! 👍
For some reason I am a (belated) fan of the Pampas Bull and was nice to see that his name is featured in such a distinguished board.
About the top spots, my guess is that Schumi is pretty much settled, doubt we're still using any tracks layouts from his era. Hamilton will probably lose a few (or many, like Vettel) , and Verstappen will win a few (or many if his dominance is of the same kind as Vettel's and Hamilton's).
Also nice to see Lauda and Mansell in the podium, I guess the ever-evolving layouts during the 70's and 80's meant anyone driving in the 90's (like Damon Hill, with an higher than expected score) couldn't erase the previous layouts records.
For some reason I am a (belated) fan of the Pampas Bull and was nice to see that his name is featured in such a distinguished board.
About the top spots, my guess is that Schumi is pretty much settled, doubt we're still using any tracks layouts from his era. Hamilton will probably lose a few (or many, like Vettel) , and Verstappen will win a few (or many if his dominance is of the same kind as Vettel's and Hamilton's).
Also nice to see Lauda and Mansell in the podium, I guess the ever-evolving layouts during the 70's and 80's meant anyone driving in the 90's (like Damon Hill, with an higher than expected score) couldn't erase the previous layouts records.
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When I first starting compiling data on track/driver/race records in the 1980s, it surprised me how much Prost held race lap records but Senna held more pole positions, but wasn't quite as concerned with fastest laps.
There were also some drivers that just didn't seem to put the same effort into qualifying as the race itself. Someone like Patrick Depailler had one of the highest number of positions gained on average, for example.
Recent cars holding records will probably get wiped out over the next few years, although probably no new records were set with last year's slower cars (except for Miami Gardens, naturally). Exceptions like the all-conquering MP4/4 don't have any due to the 2.5 bar turbo restrictions of its day, or that 2005's tougher tire rules meant overall laps were slower.
There were also some drivers that just didn't seem to put the same effort into qualifying as the race itself. Someone like Patrick Depailler had one of the highest number of positions gained on average, for example.
Recent cars holding records will probably get wiped out over the next few years, although probably no new records were set with last year's slower cars (except for Miami Gardens, naturally). Exceptions like the all-conquering MP4/4 don't have any due to the 2.5 bar turbo restrictions of its day, or that 2005's tougher tire rules meant overall laps were slower.
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I am compiling a list of qualifying records too, which I will be giving the same statistical treatment to find answers to. I'm sure Senna will have a few more than 2 there.
There will also be a lot more from 2016 onwards as that was the year that the cars started to beat the 2004 qualifying records regularly. Should be interesting and we'll be seeing the W11 at the top I reckon.
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- 29,683
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The Benetton B194 holding the Catalunya record is curious because the layout of the track was different at 9 and 10 to today and in 1994 there was an extra tyre barrier chicane before turn 10 to slow the cars down.
I would have imagined a car from 1995-2003 would have had the record.
I would have imagined a car from 1995-2003 would have had the record.
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It holds the record for the 1994 Tyre Chicane Configuration.The Benetton B194 holding the Catalunya record is curious because the layout of the track was different at 9 and 10 to today and in 1994 there was an extra tyre barrier chicane before turn 10 to slow the cars down.
I would have imagined a car from 1995-2003 would have had the record.
The full list of Catalunya lap record holders are as follows:
For reference, I counted 176 different layouts for 78 different circuits.
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Yep, it's one of 26(!) layouts used only once in F1 history.
Post-Senna death changes contributed to quite a few circuit changes in the mid-90's, helping to inflate the scores of drivers like Mansell, Prost and Damon Hill who had the best cars of the generations as various layouts were tried. COVID certainly helped pad out the already impressive stats of the 2020 Mercedes as it got to visit quite a few new circuits, taking some lap records from the 2004 Ferrari.
Senna just seems to have mostly missed out, as he only has 2 lap records due to setting most of his only 19 Fastest Laps during 1987-1990, when the calendar and track layouts was pretty stable and lap records had been set by the much faster Williams' in 1987, and it often took until 1992 for laps to go back faster again.
2007-2013 era was all overshadowed by the F2004, while 2014 onwards were slow and on circuits that stuck around until the 2017 redesigns which were so much faster.
In fact, due to calendar stability before and after and slower cars than before, 1998-2000 and 2014-2016 are the longest gaps without a lap record set of all years.
1950's - 13 records
1960's - 15 records
1970's - 28 records
1980's - 29 records
1990's - 30 records
2000's - 25 records
2010's - 16 records
2020's - 18 records (+3 guaranteed in 2023 at Catalunya, Singapore and Las Vegas)
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McLaren from 1982 is my personal favorite. While Lauda's qualifying record was somewhat better, John Watson was a title contender with only a single start from a points-paying position, and even that was a 6th. He'd charge into his 2 wins from 10th and 17th position respectively, and then almost immediately in 1983 one-upped his own record of worst starting position for a race winner, by doing it from 22nd.
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1982 was a complete outlier for nearly all records. I think the only thing 'average' about it was that there were 16 races.
That year, turbos had a major advantage in qualifying, so Renault, Ferrari, and Brabham would turn up the wick as they pleased. Couple that with a tire war, super-sticky qualifying tires, major bouts of unreliability, ground-effect cars dancing on the narrowest of handling envelopes, and thus...the DFV could still win races if they kept it all together.
Going to take a crack at this one of the top of my head...America, home of the one-offs!
Pedrables had two layouts, each run once (1951, '54)
Ain Diab was run once ('58)
One of those Portuguese GP layouts from 1958-60 was used once (but not Oporto), can't recall which one ('59?)
Sebring 1959 was a one-off race
Avus 1959
Riverside Road Circuit 1960 was a one-off race
Zeltweg Airfield 1964...still the most ridiculous F1-grade track of all time
Hockenheim in 1970 was a different layout than 1977-80
Zolder in 1973 was slightly different layout when they next returned
Osterreichring had a slightly different layout for the Hella Licht chicane one year (1976 or 1977)
Detroit 1982 was a different layout - with an extra hairpin - not used from 1983 onwards
Dallas 1984 was a one-off race
Phoenix 1991 was a different layout (due to the construction of the basketball arena)
Donnington 1993 was a one-off race
Catalunya and Spa-Francorchamps did one-time changes with tire barriers in 1994
Fuji's more modern layout was a one-time track only for 2007, wasn't it?
Sakhir's outer circuit layout and Mugello were one-offs in 2020
Miami only has had one race (so far).
So that's 20. There's gaps in my memory, that's for sure.
I think Monza had a different layout one time in the early-1950s; the Parabolica wasn't quite there yet...but maybe they ran it twice.
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MagpieRacer
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This is less a trivia question but a good bit of trivia no less and a record to boot.
As of today (22/1/2023), Sebastian Ogier holds the record for most wins at the Rallye Automobile de Monte-Carlo. 9 wins total across 3 decades and 5 different cars.
2009 - Peugeot 207 S2000
2014 - VW Polo R
2015 - VW Polo R
2016 - VW Polo R
2017 - Ford Fiesta
2018 - Ford Fiesta
2019 - Citroën C3
2021 - Toyota Yaris
2023 - Toyota Yaris
The odd trivia associated with this, is that despite having 9 outright Monte-Carlo wins, only 8 of them are WRC wins. For 3 years, from 2009 to 2011, it was the opening round of the IRC (Intercontinental Rally Challenge), and didn't feature at all in the WRC championships of those years. Hence his ability to have won the rally in 3 different decades, thanks to that one off IRC appearance.
As of today (22/1/2023), Sebastian Ogier holds the record for most wins at the Rallye Automobile de Monte-Carlo. 9 wins total across 3 decades and 5 different cars.
2009 - Peugeot 207 S2000
2014 - VW Polo R
2015 - VW Polo R
2016 - VW Polo R
2017 - Ford Fiesta
2018 - Ford Fiesta
2019 - Citroën C3
2021 - Toyota Yaris
2023 - Toyota Yaris
The odd trivia associated with this, is that despite having 9 outright Monte-Carlo wins, only 8 of them are WRC wins. For 3 years, from 2009 to 2011, it was the opening round of the IRC (Intercontinental Rally Challenge), and didn't feature at all in the WRC championships of those years. Hence his ability to have won the rally in 3 different decades, thanks to that one off IRC appearance.
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Good guesses!
From the source I used, Pedralbes was the same layout and length, hence classed together.
Monsanto Park is the Portuguese race in 1959 you're close to finding.
By 1970 Hockenheim had the chicanes following Clark's death. I can see the same layout and track length used from 1970 to 1981.
The Osterreichring chicane was added in 1977 and I can't see evidence of there being a one-off version.
Fuji hosted 2 races on both its layouts (1976-77 and 2007-08)
The Vedano version of Monza was used from 1950-1954.
Other than that, you scored 14 correct!
One-off races:
Ain-Diab 1958
AVUS 1959
Dallas 1984
Donington Park 1993
Le Mans Bugatti 1967
Losail 2021
Miami 2022
Monsanto Park 1959
Mugello 2020
Pescara 1957
Riverside 1960
Sebring 1959
Zeltweg 1964
One-off layouts:
Albert Park 2022
Buenos Aires (No 9 Reverse) 1954
Catalunya (Tyre Chicane) 1994
Detroit (Hairpin) 1982
Dijon (Short) 1974
Imola (Slightly different chicanes) 1980
Jarama (New Pegio hairpin)
Long Beach 1982
Long Beach 1983
Magny-Cours chicane 1991
Monaco (Different startline) 1950
Monaco (later chicane) 1972
Montreal (Tight Casino chicane) 1978
Phoenix 1991
Rouen (Short) 1952
Sakhir (Endurance) 2010
Sakhir (Outer) 2020
Silverstone (Open Stowe, tight Priory and Brooklands) 1996
Silverstone (Modern, National Startline) 2010
Spa (Original layout, with a Malmedy Chicane) 1970
Spa (Eau Rouge chicane) 1994
Zandvoort (Chicane added) 1979
Zolder (Open final chicane) 1973
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I couldn't recall the Rouen one, I remember two layouts but thought they switched back and forth on them. Oops.
I thought Jarama had the same layout the entire time it was used in F1 (1967/68-81).
I looked up the Osterrichring one; turns out it amounted to a 0.001-mile increase by reprofiling the chicane. That's honestly enough to be ignored, or it was a centerline measurement error all along.
Forgot about Long Beach's last F1 race; then CART/IndyCar used the same layout for many more years.
I thought Jarama had the same layout the entire time it was used in F1 (1967/68-81).
I looked up the Osterrichring one; turns out it amounted to a 0.001-mile increase by reprofiling the chicane. That's honestly enough to be ignored, or it was a centerline measurement error all along.
Forgot about Long Beach's last F1 race; then CART/IndyCar used the same layout for many more years.
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Jarama • STATS F1
Rouen-les-Essarts • STATS F1
These are the "evidence" I have.
Still, I hope to have qualifying stats up soonish.
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Did Montreal have a one-off tyre chicance in 1994 as well? I seem to recall that the old sweepers had a chicane in front of them after Senna's death but I'm not sure if that was retained for 1995 before the entire section was made into the back straight we have today.
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Yeah. The fast corners that the chicane preceded weren't changed for 1995, so I suppose they had to keep the extra one in until the winter when someone had a brainwave to remove both chicanes and make it a long straight from the hairpin to the final chicane, bypassing the low-runoff fast corners entirely.
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Jarama • STATS F1
www.statsf1.com
Okay, that's different enough.
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As Promised, here are the Qualifying lap records. This is based on times which set Pole Position (with the exception of the double lap 2005 qualifying and 2021 Sprint Races), so any faster lap in for example Q2, or disqualified Pole Laps such as Hamilton at Spain 2012 would not count.
The 2017-2021 era cars come out as pretty dominant of lap records, as some iconic fast cars like the 2004 Ferrari and 1988 McLaren with just one(!) record, the same number of lap records as constructors like Jordan, BAR and Toleman.
The full Spreadsheet can be viewed here.
The 2017-2021 era cars come out as pretty dominant of lap records, as some iconic fast cars like the 2004 Ferrari and 1988 McLaren with just one(!) record, the same number of lap records as constructors like Jordan, BAR and Toleman.
The full Spreadsheet can be viewed here.
