Yes, but so does a slalom test. So does a skid pan test. None are infalliable, and I don't use any of thoes to judge a cars true potential. The only proper way to judge a cars true potential is for you to drive it and take it there. This doesn't tell you why each car won, the Impreza is not the best handling car in that list, it's not all about handling even on this track. Perhaps you should post a layout of the track, and perhaps some good information on the track before this point can go further though.
Well I never said that this list is the ultimate list and that every other form of car testing is BS. All I said ist that this list has the same right to exist and is as true as a list with the same cars driven on Silverstone or the Indy 500 oval course, each time with a certain focus on certain abilities of a car.
I defended that list because it says a lot about those cars, I didn't say that the Impreza will kill all other cars in that list under all circumstances.
On a track with this layout it obviously does and that is also close to reality. Because you know, it is reality.
Those are professional car testers as well as professional race drivers. And the track is handling course from the ADAC, the biggest German car club...
The car magazine is successful and the biggest in Germany, dominating the TV car magazine market for like 15 years or so. It is ridiculous to think that this list is total crap as if some 12 year olds made it up.
But that is what certain people in here try to tell me. You know those poeple from Motorvision work together with many of our nations leading car magazine and as I might add, we are not really an unimportant country when it comes to automobiles, right ? So believe me those guys know their job and I won't accept some random opinions by people who call my posts bullsh** although I don't even know if they've ever driven a car in their life outside GT you know.
Of course this is a discussion forum and of course everybody has the right to question this list. Of course it is just one aspect of cars, it's not the most balanced list probably, but one thing is fact : on this track The Subaru smokes the rest. period. And I'd say that this track comes closer to middle European road condition reality than the 300 yard wide formula one tracks.
Or at least it comes as close.
I recently talked to a car dealer, 40 years in business and he told me that the old RS4 for example is a great car, but driven in the alps, it sucks compared to the old Impreza GT. Why ? bewcause it's fat and many peopel seem to forget that these days. They go like : OMG 600 hp and 1000 NM torque... CL 65 AMG for example.Then I tell them : Dude, that's a 2,5 ton car with AT and a fun killer called Traction control : it's not that great as it sounds. And they are like : Hey, it has 600 hp !!!
Oh well...
Yes I do, but if your referring to road enjoyment, I stand by what I said, you should never be travelling at a speed on a twisty road where handling limits become a factor. If your referring to track enjoyment then this test isn't idicative of what each car can do on your typical track.
Ok I respect that. But those limits are exceeded very fast. Handling becomes a limiting factor for me every day... You know, maybe only for seconds, but still. Otherwise I could also drive a 1,6 litre Golf or so...
I agree that racing is more dangerous than speeding, but either way, excessive speeding is stupid.
Let's change "stupid" into selfish and risky
Because it's not stupid you know. You want fun > You have fun = problem solved, kinda smart
And as I said, every road is different. If the road is in the open country without trees and you can see for miles, no other traffic and you can handle a car at high speed it's not even that dangerous....
I knew a kid who thought the same, he killed someone. You know that in regard to the principal I'm right, so as far as I'm concerned my argument stands.
Well that is sad, but so far I killed nobody and I don't think that I'm a real threat to road saftey. Sure I drive fast, but I don't drink any alcohol at all, never, no other drugs, I never party so I a always had enough sleep. I drive my car hard and therefor I know how it reacts in dangerous situations and I don't intend to crash my beloved STi.
A professional driver on a 1 minuet a lap track will not make three times as many mistakes in their best run over 25 laps as their best run over 25 laps on the 20 second a lap track.
Define mistake. I don't talk about spins or leaving the track. I talk about small mistakes. Ok Micheal Schumacher can drive three nearly perfect laps with almost the same time in a row. But he is one of the best drivers around and drives F1 cars for over 10 years, whereas a test driver drives a 90 hp FF car on monday and a 150 hp FR car on tuesday and a 300 hp AWD car on saturday.
Let's say the car tester has 1 hour to review the car on a certain track. That means like 15 runs on a normal track and 50 runs on that small track. More tries is better right ? Especially since the tester is new to the car.
I say the chance to drive a near perfect lap on a 20 seconds run with 50 tries is a lot higher than the one to drive a near perfect lap on a longer track with more curves and therfor more possibilities to take these curves not 100% optimal, you know. Especially since he doesn't have the same amount of tries, not even close.
I understand your point, but it still stands that a 1 tenth of a second mistake on a 20 second a lap track is three times as costly as a 1 tenth of a second mistake on a 1 minuet a lap track.
True
But if you say a professional driver won't make 5 small mistakes on a track 5 times as long with 5 times as many curves, then you imply that it is possible to make a perfect lap on such a small course.
Again simple maths.
25 possibilities to screw a lap VS 5 possibilities to screw a lap
15 tries VS 50 tries
both times a great driver. I say, small track wins, since it is very likely to get a near perfect lap.
The other side you didn't even touch on, the off the line acceleration. A car with poor grip when accelerating hard from 0-20 could suffer a lot on a 20 second a lap track, yet the very same car running a track with a similar corner profile but is three times as long could win.
Would be true if that was like you described it. But it isn't. Flying laps...
The track is just too short to say, that car is level with that car in that aspect. If you just want to know about handling we already have skid pan and slalom tests.
Of course that also says a lot about handling, but that track combines a few cornes with different kind of radius and elevation changes. therefor it says more about the overall handling imo.
But regardless, a professional driver will sill make a near perfect lap.
Oh well, if he is able to drive a newar perfct lap on a long track then he is also able to make a perfect lap on a small track.
Personally I found the lap tests easier than the harder licences shorter tests, why because there was less room for error in the shorter tests.
And why was there less room ? Because Polyphony knows that it is easier to drive three good corners than 20 good corners.
Go and buy the japanese version of Gran Turismo 1. Then S licence 7th test. White griffith on Special route 11. That was a killer. And the japanese bronze time was as hard as the US/Pal Gold... Then you know how hard it is to make a perfect lap
One mistake and you failed. On the lap tests, one mistake can be made up for by better driving at another point in the track. But this is not Gran Turismo, this is not regular people doing the driving, this is a professional driver who can get great laps at the Nordschleife.
As I said, Polyphony knows that and that's why they made it easier for us.
And in the virtual world of Gran Turismo we are professional drivers. Maybe not me, maybe not you. But in the world of Gran Turismo some 15 year old Korean or so could be the fastest on this planet, which makes him a Michael Schumacher of Playstation so to say
What I want to say is, that why it can't be compared on the one hand, it of course can be compared regarding that aspect.
Uhh... lenghty post
Sorry for like probably 3 dozen typos
