Multiple-stabbing at Franklin Regional High School - 9th April 2014

[photonrider]

Franklin Regional High School posted this statement on their website.

A critical incident has occurred at the high school. All elementary schools are cancelled, the middle school and high school students are secure. Additional information will be released as soon as possible. Please keep our campus clear of traffic.

Franklin Regional High School says parents will be notified when they can be reunited with students.

Members in the area please take note.


http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014...ted-stabbed-at-franklin-regional-high-school/

Edit:

More info at this point in time: 20 individuals ranging from 15 - 60 years old have received stab wounds; some have life-threatening wounds. One adult, the rest were teenage students. Alleged attacker is reported to be a student, and in custody now.
Took place at round 7.15 this morning shortly after school doors were opened. Attacks were in the hallway and classroom.

 

[Dotini]

It is now said that 7 were critically injured with 2 life-threatening. The suspect is a male student, said to have carried 2 knives.

With a bit of research I could find no legal limit for knife length in PA, although double edged
daggers, switchblades and the like are prohibited.

A knife penetration wound of only 2" can be fatal if inflicted in one of several vital organs or arteries.

A recent organized knife attack by ten Uyghurs at a train station in China resulted in 30 deaths and 130 wounded. They were said to have used "long knives".

 

[Zenith]

Quick, everybody begin speculation about the attacker(s)' motivations! What knife did he use? What were his political motivations? Did he like the cafeteria food?

In all seriousness though, I feel like the best course of action to prevent this sort of behavior would be to lock the perpetrator up for however many years and let him rot just like any other heinous criminal.

 

[The Bman]

I saw this on the news as they had it on one of the televisions during lunch at my high school. I only heard a slight bit of it so there's not much I can say other than I hope the victims a quick recovery.

 

[JMR450]

Quick, everybody begin speculation about the attacker(s)' motivations! What knife did he use? What were his political motivations? Did he like the cafeteria food?

In all seriousness though, I feel like the best course of action to prevent this sort of behavior would be to lock the perpetrator up for however many years and let him rot just like any other heinous criminal.

No, jailing the suspect won't change a thing. The justice system is powerless to quell the rising crime rates because it is not an effective deterrent. So I need to disagree with you on this. You need country-wide reform. create jobs, take care of your impoverished, allow the health care system to stabilize, and rescind access to firearms and knives. That is how you as a country solve the problem.

Slightly off topic but very relevant. Did you know, outside of South America, Mexico, Brazil and South Africa, the US has the highest death rate from gun crimes. Jamaica has an alarming death toll from gun crimes but most countries in the West, East and Europe have crime rates half to one third of the US statistics. Noteworthy is UK knife deaths are approaching the US gun crime rates.

Considering South American countries and Mexico are largely lawless countries with unprecedented police corruption and drug cartels at war, Brazil has a massive problem with poverty and a South Africa with deep racial intolerance and racism, we can see why thier crime rates are so high, but not the US, or do we?.

The US is called the richest country in the world but you have a poor education system, stifling health care system, country-wide poverty, a system that uses and discards veterans like garbage, and an unprecedented access to firearms and knives, is it any wonder you have so many problems? Do you see the parallels with the other countries?

The solution is to decrease poverty, better educate your students, give everyone access to health care, take care of your veterans and make weapons purchases very difficult to achieve.

The US has many of the same issues plaguing the country as those in South America, Brazil and South Africa. The difference here is the US has a government that should be trying to improve the country and make it safer for its citizens.

That is how you stop senseless violence.

 

[ildd]

Slightly off topic but very relevant. Did you know, outside of South America, Mexico, Brazil and South Africa, the US has the highest death rate from gun crimes. Jamaica has an alarming death toll from gun crimes but most countries in the West, East and Europe have crime rates half to one third of the US statistics.

.

And... what's your point? Guns weren't involved.
"South America . . . Brazil" what? Brazil is in South America.

 

[Famine]

I was going to post "Ban guns!" in this thread but figured it would be poor taste at best.

I guess Poe's Law is a harsh mistress.

 

[Vegard]

I hope everyone pulls through and recovers.

In all seriousness though, I feel like the best course of action to prevent this sort of behavior would be to lock the perpetrator up for however many years and let him rot just like any other heinous criminal.

Why would you think that?

Have not history proven this to be an ineffective deterrent against violent crimes of this sort?

IMO using punishment as a deterrent, in cases like this, is like treating a symptome, while ignoring the cause(s) of that symptome, and somehow expecting the causal factors to be negated by that action.

 

[Zenith]

No, jailing the suspect won't change a thing. The justice system is powerless to quell the rising crime rates because it is not an effective deterrent.

None of what you list below are deterrents, well one of them is a deterrent, just not an effective one.

So I need to disagree with you on this. You need country-wide reform. create jobs, take care of your impoverished,

Is there evidence that this criminal was impoverished?

allow the health care system to stabilize

Is there evidence that this criminal would have been swayed away from the crime

and rescind access to firearms

Is there evidence that firearms were related to this crime?

and knives.

If you think that you can stop people from having access to sharp pieces of metal, I have bad news for you...

That is how you as a country solve the problem.

Gawsh, it would seem as though you're using this crime as a chance to stand on top of a soapbox and preach how your ideas will fix everything, rather than discuss the issue at hand.

Slightly off topic but very relevant. Did you know, outside of South America, Mexico, Brazil and South Africa, the US has the highest death rate from gun crimes. Jamaica has an alarming death toll from gun crimes but most countries in the West, East and Europe have crime rates half to one third of the US statistics. Noteworthy is UK knife deaths are approaching the US gun crime rates.

And gun-crime rates are relevant... how? Soapbox.

Considering South American countries and Mexico are largely lawless countries with unprecedented police corruption and drug cartels at war, Brazil has a massive problem with poverty and a South Africa with deep racial intolerance and racism, we can see why thier crime rates are so high, but not the US, or do we?

Because the United States is an extremely diverse nation in nearly every respect? You're lumping the crime rates of Detroit, Chicago, and Atlanta with the rest of America. I guess using statistics accurately comes second to having them support your argument which is still not at all relevant to this crime.

The US is called the richest country in the world but you have a poor education system

No, the schools in the US have a low average test score. Once again you're lumping schools in poor areas with everyone else. Schools in less crappy parts of the US are just as good as their European and Canadian counterparts. Also, lolUniversities.

Still not relevant to this crime.

The US stifling health care system

There is much disagreement on why the health care system is bad. You still have not provided reasons why the health care system is relevant to this crime.

country-wide poverty

Have you been to the US? I don't mean just Detroit. I'm not sure what kind of hellhole you think this place is. Was the criminal who stabbed everyone starving or something? Something something soapbox.

a system that uses and discards veterans like garbage

Was this criminal a veteran? Soapbox.

and an unprecedented access to firearms and knives

One of which was not used in this crime, the other is a sharp piece of metal. How you plan to curb access to knives while still having people cook is beyond me.

Soap-Actually, let's pursue this one. How would you curb access to knives? Tell me. I really want to know.

is it any wonder you have so many problems?

I actually wasn't aware of most of these problems. Thank heavens you came in with these 100% accurate claims. Now I just need to go tell all my friends that they're starving and about to die at any moment. Then hopefully I'll have appeased you enough to actually talk about this thread.

Do you see the parallels with the other countries?

Go ahead and find a country with as much diversity as the USA. I'll wait. While you're at it, compare all your statistics of American cities and states that haven't been completely FUBAR'd by people with as naive ideas as the ones you've put in this thread. You'll notice that the cities that have made policies similar to the ones you're proposing are in the deepest crap. So at best your ideas hold up in theory, not practice.

The solution is to decrease poverty, better educate your students, give everyone access to health care, take care of your veterans and make weapons purchases very difficult to achieve.

All of this is so irrelevant to the thread I'm not even going to bother. Here is the America thread, you can post your vague and ignorant speech there and we'll dismantle it again.

The US has many of the same issues plaguing the country as those in South America, Brazil and South Africa. The difference here is the US has a government that should be trying to improve the country and make it safer for its citizens.

That is how you stop senseless violence.

Yeah, no it's not.

Your PSN is GUNSLINGER_R450. I'm guessing you're an adolescent who's just gotten into examining policy. Your style of "It worked for these countries, it'll work everywhere" backs this up.

Why would you think that?

Have not history proven this to be an ineffective deterrent against violent crimes of this sort?

IMO using punishment as a deterrent, in cases like this, is like treating a symptome, while ignoring the cause(s) of that symptome, and somehow expecting the causal factors to be negated by that action.

My point was more in regards to the American media's coverage of these kinds of crimes. They are undoubtedly jumping all over this story and giving the criminal the 15 minutes of fame he desired. Anyone who is familiar with American Television news knows what I'm talking about. For the record, I do not believe that punishment alone is an effective deterrent, but that's not what I was discussing. The media circus is practically encouragement for the malicious to perform these acts.

 

[JMR450]

None of what you list below are deterrents, well one of them is a deterrent, just not an effective one.



Is there evidence that this criminal was impoverished?



Is there evidence that this criminal would have been swayed away from the crime



Is there evidence that firearms were related to this crime?



If you think that you can stop people from having access to sharp pieces of metal, I have bad news for you...



Gawsh, it would seem as though you're using this crime as a chance to stand on top of a soapbox and preach how your ideas will fix everything, rather than discuss the issue at hand.


And gun-crime rates are relevant... how? Soapbox.



Because the United States is an extremely diverse nation in nearly every respect? You're lumping the crime rates of Detroit, Chicago, and Atlanta with the rest of America. I guess using statistics accurately comes second to having them support your argument which is still not at all relevant to this crime.



No, the schools in the US have a low average test score. Once again you're lumping schools in poor areas with everyone else. Schools in less crappy parts of the US are just as good as their European and Canadian counterparts. Also, lolUniversities.

Still not relevant to this crime.



There is much disagreement on why the health care system is bad. You still have not provided reasons why the health care system is relevant to this crime.



Have you been to the US? I don't mean just Detroit. I'm not sure what kind of hellhole you think this place is. Was the criminal who stabbed everyone starving or something? Something something soapbox.



Was this criminal a veteran? Soapbox.



One of which was not used in this crime, the other is a sharp piece of metal. How you plan to curb access to knives while still having people cook is beyond me.

Soap-Actually, let's pursue this one. How would you curb access to knives? Tell me. I really want to know.



I actually wasn't aware of most of these problems. Thank heavens you came in with these 100% accurate claims. Now I just need to go tell all my friends that they're starving and about to die at any moment. Then hopefully I'll have appeased you enough to actually talk about this thread.



Go ahead and find a country with as much diversity as the USA. I'll wait. While you're at it, compare all your statistics of American cities and states that haven't been completely FUBAR'd by people with as naive ideas as the ones you've put in this thread. You'll notice that the cities that have made policies similar to the ones you're proposing are in the deepest crap. So at best your ideas hold up in theory, not practice.



All of this is so irrelevant to the thread I'm not even going to bother. Here is the America thread, you can post your vague and ignorant speech there and we'll dismantle it again.

Yeah, no it's not.

Your PSN is GUNSLINGER_R450. I'm guessing you're an adolescent who's just gotten into examining policy. Your style of "It worked for these countries, it'll work everywhere" backs this up.



My point was more in regards to the American media's coverage of these kinds of crimes. They are undoubtedly jumping all over this story and giving the criminal the 15 minutes of fame he desired. Anyone who is familiar with American Television news knows what I'm talking about. For the record, I do not believe that punishment alone is an effective deterrent, but that's not what I was discussing. The media circus is practically encouragement for the malicious to perform these acts.

You certainly did make a comment on punishing the offender. quote " In all seriousness though, I feel like the best course of action to prevent this sort of behavior would be to lock the perpetrator up for however many years and let him rot just like any other heinous criminal."

I was disagreeing with your comment and explained that the US suffers from many of the same sociological issues that other countries with higher crime rates suffer from. I know a knife was used but I could not find any statistics on "knife wielding children killing schoolmates". Gun violence however is universal the world over and features prominently with senseless acts of violence, acts very similar to this one here. My apologies if the parallels don't work for you.

My PSN name does not mean I am an adolescent, in fact I am a former military member and I have family who are combat veterans that served your country. My PSN name is in reference to one of those units.

If your point was more about the media you should have led with that. Yes your country is diverse but diversity is not an excuse for daily violent crimes in a wealthy and developed country.

 

[JMR450]

And... what's your point? Guns weren't involved.
"South America . . . Brazil" what? Brazil is in South America.

My point is well explained in the above response, and yes you're right Brazil is in South America, smart lad. The causal factors that lead to this type of crime are the same in other less wealthy and less developed countries. As Americans you need to understand punishment won't deter this from happening but social reforms will.

I was going to post "Ban guns!" in this thread but figured it would be poor taste at best.

I guess Poe's Law is a harsh mistress.

I am not an extremist, nor is this a parody. I am outlining that the US state of affairs leads to senseless violence much like other countries who are not nearly as well off as the US. That is neither a parody of extremism or is there any humour here.

 

[Zenith]

You certainly did make a comment on punishing the offender. quote " In all seriousness though, I feel like the best course of action to prevent this sort of behavior would be to lock the perpetrator up for however many years and let him rot just like any other heinous criminal."

The point of the post was to treat this offense just like any other rather than having a media circus around it. If I wasn't clear with the first half of my post then I apologize. That doesn't make 90% of your comment any less irrelevant to what we're discussing in this thread. I showed you the America thread, if you want to hash out your opinion on how to fix the United States, that would be a good place to do so.

I was disagreeing with your comment and explained that the US suffers from many of the same sociological issues that other countries with higher crime rates suffer from. I know a knife was used but I could not find any statistics on "knife wielding children killing schoolmates". Gun violence however is universal the world over and features prominently with senseless acts of violence, acts very similar to this one here. My apologies if the parallels don't work for you.

Because gun violence isn't relevant to this story. You still haven't answered my question, which is relevant to this thread.

How would you prevent people like the criminal in this story from accessing a knife or equivalent weapon?

My PSN name does not mean I am an adolescent, in fact I am a former military member and I have family who are combat veterans that served your country. My PSN name is in reference to one of those units.

I choose neither to believe or doubt you, this is the internet. My observations mostly focused on how vague your solutions are to problems that you oversimplify. I'll leave your credentials there. I retract my theory about your age.

If your point was more about the media you should have led with that. Yes your country is diverse but diversity is not an excuse for daily violent crimes in a wealthy and developed country.

See above. I actually did lead with my point about the media.

Quick, everybody begin speculation about the attacker(s)' motivations! What knife did he use? What were his political motivations? Did he like the cafeteria food?

A country can be wealthy and still have poor and undeveloped parts. This crime does not have much to do with those parts seeing as Pittsburg does not seem to exhibit a particularly bad case of the poverty, rampant gun crime, and all the other things you decided to bring up in this discussion.

 

[JMR450]

The answer to your question about the knife being readily accessible, first off, treat large knives, the ones that do damage, just like adult beverages, guns, and cigarettes. Do not sell them to minors.

I have simplified my comments because this is a forum, if I wanted to write a book about the state of affairs in the US I would. I know about the America thread, my post was to support my opinion and my disagreement with your opinion.

You don't need to believe me, you're indignant behavior is offensive.

Pittsburg has poverty stricken neighborhoods, gun crime and probably a store where a minor can purchase a knife and commit this kind of crime.

 

[Famine]

I am not an extremist, nor is this a parody.

One of these statements is not quite as correct as the other.

 

[JMR450]

One of these statements is not quite as correct as the other.

Your entitled to your opinion, as am I

I have come to the conclusion that people on this forum want their opinion to be heard but have no tolerance to hear other's opinion if they don't understand the topic at hand or the writers point of view on the issue.

 

[Famine]

Your entitled to your opinion, as am I

Nope.

 

[JMR450]

Nope.

Really?, I am not entitled to an opinion here?

 

[Tornado]

Technically speaking, no. Privately owned website and all that.

 

[Famine]

Really?, I am not entitled to an opinion here?

Here or anywhere. Read the article.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Really?, I am not entitled to an opinion here?

Read the article. EDIT: Tree'd by @Famine on the subject of article-reading

Nope.

If “Everyone’s entitled to their opinion” just means no-one has the right to stop people thinking and saying whatever they want, then the statement is true, but fairly trivial. No one can stop you saying that vaccines cause autism, no matter how many times that claim has been disproven.

Correct, that's the right to free speech. How that applies on a forum is differently, of course, the publisher of the forum holds the 1A right, not the writer of the post.

But if ‘entitled to an opinion’ means ‘entitled to have your views treated as serious candidates for the truth’ then it’s pretty clearly false. And this too is a distinction that tends to get blurred.

This is also correct in the scope that it defines, you have to decide which of the two your own argument fits into.

Where I disagree with that article is in its attack on media bias based on the coverage of the MMR/Anti-MMR debate; both sides were allowed to put their arguments and a TV channel has no place in choosing science over bulldust. They should present both sides, TV is there to inform, not to decide. The Anti-MMR debate was based on some science and the right of parents not to expose their children to the potential of the known side-effects. Personally I was happy for my own children to have the jab having considered the small risk.

 

[Rich S]

Amazing no one has been killed during all this (knock on wood).

I think anti depressant use has become an issue in our healthcare system with young people, people can have real ups and downs with medications. I think alot of people may be prescribed meds they dont need, certainly not all people on these drugs dont belong on them, but many I think are on meds they dont need and it messes with their heads.

Compounding this of course is the desire to go on copy cat "rampages" as shootings have been the norm especially school shootings. This happened to be a school "knifing" but the same general genre.

 

[JMR450]

Here or anywhere. Read the article.

I've read it, interesting. I don't have an opinion on it as of yet.

 

[Zenith]

The answer to your question about the knife being readily accessible, first off, treat large knives, the ones that do damage, just like adult beverages, guns, and cigarettes. Do not sell them to minors.

I'm guessing this criminal's mother/father had large knives in the kitchen like anybody who cooks. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he used one of the kitchen knives to perform this act. How will you keep minors from accessing their family's cookware?

You're also ignoring that a knife is a sharp piece of material. It can be procured with no tools out of (for instance) a filed down wrench or any similar piece of metal. What do you plan to do about minors getting their hands on objects that can be converted into knives in an hour? Ban solids!

Honestly if you think you can regulate objects sharp enough to stab somebody, I would like some of what you're smoking.

I have simplified my comments because this is a forum, if I wanted to write a book about the state of affairs in the US I would. I know about the America thread, my post was to support my opinion and my disagreement with your opinion.

Not really. You spent most of the post talking about stuff that is entirely irrelevant to this conversation.

You don't need to believe me, you're indignant behavior is offensive.

You took offense to it. I would hardly call it indignant. More like confused.

Pittsburg has poverty stricken neighborhoods, gun crime and probably a store where a minor can purchase a knife and commit this kind of crime.

Yeah, what's worse is that he can get a knife for free.

By taking it from the kitchen.

 

[Vegard]

My point was more in regards to the American media's coverage of these kinds of crimes. They are undoubtedly jumping all over this story and giving the criminal the 15 minutes of fame he desired. Anyone who is familiar with American Television news knows what I'm talking about. For the record, I do not believe that punishment alone is an effective deterrent, but that's not what I was discussing. The media circus is practically encouragement for the malicious to perform these acts.

Yeah, I misunderstood your meaning 👍

 

[BobK]

I was going to post "Ban guns!" in this thread but figured it would be poor taste at best.

I guess Poe's Law is a harsh mistress.

I was wondering how long it would take for the first anti-gun diatribe to pop up in this thread about a knife crime. Turned out to be seven hours and forty seven minutes.

As for banning knives, that would be completely unworkable if for no other reason than it's ridiculously easy to fabricate a knife from common materials.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I was wondering how long it would take for the first anti-gun diatribe to pop up in this thread about a knife crime. Turned out to be seven hours and forty seven minutes.

As for banning knives, that would be completely unworkable if for no other reason than it's ridiculously easy to fabricate a knife from common materials.

So are guns I could easily do either one.

 

[photonrider]

Compounding this of course is the desire to go on copy cat "rampages" as shootings have been the norm especially school shootings. This happened to be a school "knifing" but the same general genre.

Whether we could label it factually as copy-cat or not, there was a stabbing in downtown Toronto this afternoon as this news was breaking out all over the city. An office worker stabbed four people in the office complex itself. Coincidental? Or 'ripple' effect?
You are absolutely right about 'the same general genre'; there is a deeper cause behind the symptoms here.

I think anti depressant use has become an issue in our healthcare system with young people, people can have real ups and downs with medications. I think a lot of people may be prescribed meds they don't need, certainly not all people on these drugs don't belong on them, but many I think are on meds they don't need and it messes with their heads.

No confirmed news about his neuro-biological condition. I did see some footage of him; a little scrap of a lad - it's unbelievable that he was actually physically capable of this.

---


He was silent - according to witnesses - attacking the kids in grim silence as he tore around the hallways and in and out of classrooms, with two (what was described as) 'kitchen knives'. The attack lasted 5 mins. He knifed 20; that was four per minute, average.
Gracey Adams, student, was protected by her best friend, who turned his back on the attacker, to protect her. He was stabbed in the back. The assailant went on to knife two more - "He stabbed 3 people in thirty seconds," she said on an interview on CNN. A teacher got the injured boys, with four other untouched kids, into a classroom. Gracey applied pressure to the wound of the most injured student who seemed to be eviscerated. Her quick thinking kept him alive till EMTs arrived.
Someone pulled the fire-alarm within minutes of the attack; this saved many lives. Another unsung hero out there.
The school's faculty were trained and ready for his; the attack was contained within 5 mins.
If it continued for five minutes more, there would have been double the casualties. Or more, as he 'zoned' in.
Any more time given to him would have been literally carnage.
Within five minutes he had been engaged by 'Buzz', one of the School Resource officers, who took it upon himself to risk being stabbed. The Vice Principal then tackled the attacker and brought him down..
Kids who were running out of the school, screaming, alerted another Resource officer, who sprinted into the school and helped the VP, finally cuffing the knifer.
Multiple ambulances responded, including support from the air - this all added to keeping the victims alive.
The boy who attacked was charged as an adult - however not all the media mentions his name. I will leave members who need to know that to google for info. He wasn't granted bail. His parents did not show up.
At this point in time I have learned that he attacked only one wing. Why? Was this a random choice or did he have someone in mind? Was it the left wing or the right?

Amazing no one has been killed during all this (knock on wood).

One victim remains critical.

 

[Imari]

As for banning knives, that would be completely unworkable if for no other reason than it's ridiculously easy to fabricate a knife from common materials.

This. Very, very this.

A working gun is at least moderately difficult to manufacture, and requires that you're not a total retard.
A knife can be made with a bit of metal, a rock, and enough brain cells to keep you breathing for about ten minutes. Or by smashing the nearest window and picking up a big bit. Are we going to outlaw windows?

Hell, people in prison make knives or equivalents all the time, and they're heavily regulated as to what they're allowed. How on earth anyone thinks that knives could be regulated in public is beyond me.

 

[Dotini]

Sharp edged tools have been in the hands of men and boys in all the hundred thousand plus years since we've learned to chip obsidian and flint. They got better in the Bronze Age and better again in the Iron Age. The Japanese katana and Spanish rapier are highly perfected examples. Current US laws seem appropriate enough to me.

There is some hint that the little Franklin schoolboy was bullied. It will be interesting to learn what his drug regime and family situation were. If he was taking revenge, it was better that he did it with a knife than a gun or a bomb.

 

[Sage Ages]

The answer to your question about the knife being readily accessible, first off, treat large knives, the ones that do damage, just like adult beverages, guns, and cigarettes. Do not sell them to minors.

I have simplified my comments because this is a forum, if I wanted to write a book about the state of affairs in the US I would. I know about the America thread, my post was to support my opinion and my disagreement with your opinion.

You don't need to believe me, you're indignant behavior is offensive.

Pittsburg has poverty stricken neighborhoods, gun crime and probably a store where a minor can purchase a knife and commit this kind of crime.

Because it's not like people keep knives easily accessible in their homes, right?