My biggest problems with forza 4 so far

[hennessey86]

I'm loving Forza 4 at the minute but its got some major faults that need addressing before it gets to much and I go back to GT5

1.The constant steering aid that you can't turn off is a joke. we need a full simulation mode with zero aids

2. The A.I is good but some of there passes leave alot to be desired, they dive down the inside and take you out way to often sometimes leaving you in the awfully implemented anti cheating grass.

3. The anti cheating method id good in places but at some points round certain tracks its just frustrating and pointless.

4. It still feels like theres a limted amount of steering angle allowed by the game before you go into uncontrollable understeer.

5. While the graphics are good, there are some points where the graphics are that jaggy you cant see the turn in point of the corner, namely indy speedway and topgear track where you go bacwards throught the follow through. the sharp corner before that is invisible.

6.There is a lack of braking markers on certain track layouts like top gear, barcelona an hockenhiem. dont use breaking line so we need some markers to use for breaking.

7. Last but not least, the racing tyres don't have enough grip, trying to drive some of the more powerful cars is next to impossible even on racing slicks which cant be right

 

[zr1chris]

I'm loving Forza 4 at the minute but its got some major faults that need addressing before it gets to much and I go back to GT5

1.The constant steering aid that you can't turn off is a joke. we need a full simulation mode with zero aids

Agreed.

2. The A.I is good but some of there passes leave alot to be desired, they dive down the inside and take you out way to often sometimes leaving you in the awfully implemented anti cheating grass.

Agreed however I think it's still better than GT5's AI which would not cause me to play more GT5 than FM4.

3. The anti cheating method id good in places but at some points round certain tracks its just frustrating and pointless.

Agreed.

4. It still feels like theres a limted amount of steering angle allowed by the game before you go into uncontrollable understeer.

I disagree. I felt this way about FM3 but seems totally corrected in FM4 IMO. (Thank you for fixing this T10)

5. While the graphics are good, there are some points where the graphics are that jaggy you cant see the turn in point of the corner, namely indy speedway and topgear track where you go bacwards throught the follow through. the sharp corner before that is invisible.

Agreed but once again not any worse than stuff we see in GT5.

6.There is a lack of braking markers on certain track layouts like top gear, barcelona an hockenhiem. dont use breaking line so we need some markers to use for breaking.

This is totally petty. Breaking markers can be useful but aren't always there and the same goes for real life. Just have to learn how to judge speed and distance. The rest is timing. You can't honestly blame that on the game.

7. Last but not least, the racing tyres don't have enough grip, trying to drive some of the more powerful cars is next to impossible even on racing slicks which cant be right

I disagree. I think it's very lifelike. It's all about throttle control.

 

[Forcone]

4. It still feels like theres a limted amount of steering angle allowed by the game before you go into uncontrollable understeer.

I'm not sure if that is true, could be, I don't know. At least they said they did something to them, measured turning radii of the cars etc.

What I'd love, would be the ability to modify steering angle, it is quite easy in real life, and most likely every single real drifting car has something done to them in this area!

 

[hennessey86]

@zr1chris, to be honest out of all them the breaking markers are probably my biggest gripe. When your doing 150 plus miles an hour on catalunya national the first corner is impossible to break for consistently, their are are no points of reference or brake markers for that corner and I think thats lazyness on turn 10s part

 

[zr1chris]

@zr1chris, to be honest out of all them the breaking markers are probably my biggest gripe. When your doing 150 plus miles an hour on catalunya national the first corner is impossible to break for consistently, their are are no points of reference or brake markers for that corner and I think thats lazyness on turn 10s part

If there is no braking markers on the real life tracks then why is it a problem with FM4? Maybe there is. Maybe your just not looking hard enough for one. A braking marker can be anything. I don't have much of a problem finding a braking point on Catalunya. It's pretty easy to see the turn ahead and just judge it from that. I have a harder time finding a braking point on the Indy road course but I don't blame that on T10. I blame it on myself for not having enough experience on that track in FM4.

In GT5 (Indy road course) I used a caution light on the fence as a braking point. I can't find it on FM4 so i will just have to use something else. I completely miss it the first few laps but after a couple laps i'm hitting the mark halfway decent and if I did a full out session on that track I'm sure I would either find a marker of some sort or just find a rhythm in timing my speed vs distance.

 

[hennessey86]

If there is no braking markers on the real life tracks then why is it a problem with FM4? Maybe there is. Maybe your just not looking hard enough for one. A braking marker can be anything. I don't have much of a problem finding a braking point on Catalunya. It's pretty easy to see the turn ahead and just judge it from that. I have a harder time finding a braking point on the Indy road course but I don't blame that on T10. I blame it on myself for not having enough experience on that track in FM4.

In GT5 (Indy road course) I used a caution light on the fence as a braking point. I can't find it on FM4 so i will just have to use something else. I completely miss it the first few laps but after a couple laps i'm hitting the mark halfway decent and if I did a full out session on that track I'm sure I would either find a marker of some sort or just find a rhythm in timing my speed vs distance.

Consistancy is the key to winning races and if you have to constantly look for a tiny breaking marker you take you concentration of driving the car and you make more mistakes. I have seen videos of the catalunya national not gran prix on youtube and there are breaking markers for the first corner

 

[zr1chris]

Consistancy is the key to winning races and if you have to constantly look for a tiny breaking marker you take you concentration of driving the car and you make more mistakes.

Once you know where the braking marker is then there is no looking for it. You know where it is and just have to wait for it. The caution light I used in GT5 was small but very easy to spot especially once I got used to around where it was.

I have seen videos of the catalunya national not gran prix on youtube and there are breaking markers for the first corner

I have not seen any videos of the track so I can't really speak on it but if what you say is true then that is something T10 should look into to make the track more accurate to real life. Not a game breaker to me though.

 

[shawtyoner]

There are definitely brake markers at Catalunya in real life. Does anyone remember if FM3 had them?

 

[hennessey86]

Once you know where the braking marker is then there is no looking for it. You know where it is and just have to wait for it. The caution light I used in GT5 was small but very easy to spot especially once I got used to around where it was.



I have not seen any videos of the track so I can't really speak on it but if what you say is true then that is something T10 should look into to make the track more accurate to real life. Not a game breaker to me though.

No its not game breaking but I think it would make life alot easier. Maybe I have gotten too used to seein big white boards with 300, 200 and 100 before the corner on most tracks and when they are not there on others it catches me out I suppose

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

If there is no braking markers on the real life tracks then why is it a problem with FM4?

You don't get anywhere near the depth perception in sims like you do IRL. Even 3d monitors are not the same as real life since they are still flat and the image is at the same distance from your eyes. It's the exact same thing about having an antenna sticking out in your view. IRL your eye looking around (through) the antenna while in sims it totally blocks your view. Some things IRL just doesn't work well in sims.

 

[I'm Motarded]

2. The A.I is good but some of there passes leave alot to be desired, they dive down the inside and take you out way to often sometimes leaving you in the awfully implemented anti cheating grass.

Examine the replay when this happens next, if the A.I doesn't have their car at least halfway alongside you and hold their inside line. I thought it was bad driving at first too, but then saw it was me turning in on them

Happens in real racing all the time. Most recently with Massa and Hamilton in F1.

4. It still feels like theres a limted amount of steering angle allowed by the game before you go into uncontrollable understeer.

Are you playing the game with a controller? When you are, the steering assist limits the steering to the edge of grip in (corner entry and mid corner) anymore steering lock wouldn't aid in gaining any grip just the same understeer so would be pointless. It's at this point you should be steering with the throttle/brakes/coast.

I was rather disappointed when the 'sim steering' didn't remove this feature, but understand why it is there. If thumbstick position related directly to steering position at all times, the game controller users would really struggle to be competitive with wheel users. Very few players would have the thumb precision, the same reason many still revert to the 'normal steering' option because the tank-slappers are tough to correct.

@zr1chris, to be honest out of all them the breaking markers are probably my biggest gripe. When your doing 150 plus miles an hour on catalunya national the first corner is impossible to break for consistently, their are are no points of reference or brake markers for that corner and I think thats lazyness on turn 10s part

I use the advertising boards on the left. You'll have to pick an individual advertizement and you'll have to be on the ball to pick it out every time but it can be done. The bonus to this method is unlike cones and polystyrene yard markers the boards are there every lap. For other corners there's always something you can use, markings on the road, kerbs, a bump etc

If they start putting artificial irremovable markers for braking, turn-in and track out points on every track, they might as well force the braking line on for everybody. This is one of the few remaining 'SIM' features that should be left untouched IMO.

 

[imported_ScareCrow]

The India race this year in F1, being the first year for it, the new track didn't have brake markers yet. So, all the drivers had to make their own references for braking zones (tree, billboard, where the curb starts, etc.). It's actually quite common in motor sport. I suggest you do the same. The brake marker argument is pretty nitpick-y. You'll just have to get creative.

 

[magic_town]

I have noticed sometimes that the slicks don't have enough grip. For example in a V8 Supercar, with 100% throttle you get wheelspin in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and part of 4th. I was watching a race on the weekend and the camera in the footwell shows them going 100% throttle easily, even in first. (this track had a very tight hairpin)

 

[imported_JJ72]

I have noticed sometimes that the slicks don't have enough grip. For example in a V8 Supercar, with 100% throttle you get wheelspin in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and part of 4th. I was watching a race on the weekend and the camera in the footwell shows them going 100% throttle easily, even in first. (this track had a very tight hairpin)

Have people accounted that there are dozens of different compound of slicks IRL, what we have in Forza seem to be the hardest and most durable compound that can be multi-stinted in GT racing.

It would be good if we see a soft sprint racing compound but it's not a lack of realism about the current tire characteristic.

 

[hennessey86]

Are you playing the game with a controller? When you are, the steering assist limits the steering to the edge of grip in (corner entry and mid corner) anymore steering lock wouldn't aid in gaining any grip just the same understeer so would be pointless. It's at this point you should be steering with the throttle/brakes/coast

No I race with FANATEC GT2 with 900 degrees of rotation

 

[I'm Motarded]

I don't get unexpected understeer with a wheel. I control it by slowing down. Not sure what else to say.

 

[imported_barryl85]

No I race with FANATEC GT2 with 900 degrees of rotation

You like simulation to its extreme and yet you drive racecars with 900 degrees of rotation?

 

[Wolfe]

I was rather disappointed when the 'sim steering' didn't remove this feature, but understand why it is there. If thumbstick position related directly to steering position at all times, the game controller users would really struggle to be competitive with wheel users. Very few players would have the thumb precision, the same reason many still revert to the 'normal steering' option because the tank-slappers are tough to correct.

Those sim-steering tank-slappers are a result of poor input programming, not the physics engine. The way the sim-steering driver cuts into countersteer really upsets some cars, and given the fact your steering is assisted anyway it's really an unnecessary flaw.

You like simulation to its extreme and yet you drive racecars with 900 degrees of rotation?

You drive racecars exclusively and yet you play a driving game with a limited physics engine, racecar selection, track selection, a lack of commitment to any particular real world racing series, and an entirely made-up championship featuring roadcars and super lax rules/regulations?

 

[hennessey86]

You like simulation to its extreme and yet you drive racecars with 900 degrees of rotation?

For Forza I use 900, f1 I use 280, richard burns rally 360, gtr2 540. I don't exclusivly use 900 but in forza 4 I find it best to use 900 no matter what car you driving thats just my preference

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Examine the replay when this happens next, if the A.I doesn't have their car at least halfway alongside you and hold their inside line. I thought it was bad driving at first too, but then saw it was me turning in on them

Happens in real racing all the time. Most recently with Massa and Hamilton in F1.

While this is true in some cases I had the AI ram me (even run me off the road at times) even when I give them the inside. Sometimes coming out of the corner going down the straight they act if I'm not there. Maybe it's due to the limit of the console as RacePro AI isn't as good as Race07.

I have noticed sometimes that the slicks don't have enough grip. For example in a V8 Supercar, with 100% throttle you get wheelspin in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and part of 4th. I was watching a race on the weekend and the camera in the footwell shows them going 100% throttle easily, even in first. (this track had a very tight hairpin)

IIRC these V8 Supercar has a spool differential. This game probably doesn't simulate this well.

 

[I'm Motarded]

Those sim-steering tank-slappers are a result of poor input programming, not the physics engine. The way the sim-steering driver cuts into countersteer really upsets some cars, and given the fact your steering is assisted anyway it's really an unnecessary flaw.

I find the tank slappers a result of poor user input. I.e over-correcting. Nothing else. If you don't like them turn of sim steering. you will get the same tamed down slow steering speed and correction FM3 had with no tankslappers.

While this is true in some cases I had the AI ram me (even run me off the road at times) even when I give them the inside. Sometimes coming out of the corner going down the straight they act if I'm not there. Maybe it's due to the limit of the console as RacePro AI isn't as good as Race07.

Quite possibly. The Xbox only has so much Cpu cycles to spare and share for things such as the AI. AI in Race Pro can be uber fast but also extremely dumb.

 

[Wolfe]

I find the tank slappers a result of poor user input. I.e over-correcting. Nothing else. If you don't like them turn of sim steering. you will get the same tamed down slow steering speed and correction FM3 had with no tankslappers.

I switched to Normal Steering a while ago, on the advice of CAMAROBOY69. With a controller, there's nothing "simulation" about Simulation Steering; both Normal and Simulation are assisted and filtered, just in different ways. Simulation is quick and proactive, Normal is tempered and reactive. I still use Simulation sometimes, when I do autocross events. Both modes have their uses.

 

[magic_town]

I switched to Normal Steering a while ago, on the advice of CAMAROBOY69. With a controller, there's nothing "simulation" about Simulation Steering; both Normal and Simulation are assisted and filtered, just in different ways. Simulation is quick and proactive, Normal is tempered and reactive. I still use Simulation sometimes, when I do autocross events. Both modes have their uses.

I agree, simulation seems to brutal for a pad, you need the precise inputs that can only come from a wheel

 

[imported_barryl85]

You drive racecars exclusively and yet you play a driving game with a limited physics engine, racecar selection, track selection, a lack of commitment to any particular real world racing series, and an entirely made-up championship featuring roadcars and super lax rules/regulations?

I only ever signed up to play Forza as a game, I have no idea where you are going with your comments to be honest I got lost half way through reading it.

My point was that Hennessey bashed on pad players (while keeping it civil) and goes on about simulation real life this and that and yet uses 900 degrees in a car that will have probably less than 720 degrees.

 

[ShylockHolmes]

I have no constant steering aid when I drive and I'm sick of hearing it too. Of course I use a wheel like how a sim should be driven. Ya I know the little icon moves with telemetry on, but I'm still in full control of my slides.

 

[t.o.]

I agree, simulation seems to brutal for a pad, you need the precise inputs that can only come from a wheel

I disagree, you're way more likely to "lose it" with a wheel than a stick. I have some specific cars and tunes tested on Infineon and certain points I can feel the stick getting CPU help whereas with the wheel in those same points the cpu is telling me "you're on your own buddy, see you in that sandtrap in about 5 ... 4.... 3....2..."

 

[Wolfe]

My point was that Hennessey bashed on pad players (while keeping it civil) and goes on about simulation real life this and that and yet uses 900 degrees in a car that will have probably less than 720 degrees.

The only cars with less than 720 degrees are most or perhaps all of the racecars, and a few odd examples like the TVR Sagaris, which was specifically equipped to have racecar-like quick ratio steering. Just a fraction of what the game offers.

Otherwise, 900 degrees is not on the high end for a real car. My BMW has 4 turns lock to lock, or 1440 degrees. I haven't checked my Subaru but I'm sure it does at least 2.5 turns (900). The Sagaris' steering is only as short as 1.8 turns (648 degrees).

Anyway, it's not important. I was poking fun at you for poking fun at Hennessey.

I disagree, you're way more likely to "lose it" with a wheel than a stick. I have some specific cars and tunes tested on Infineon and certain points I can feel the stick getting CPU help whereas with the wheel in those same points the cpu is telling me "you're on your own buddy, see you in that sandtrap in about 5 ... 4.... 3....2..."

Whether it's with a stick or a wheel, I would prefer no help at all to incompetent CPU assistance. Playing Live for Speed with a gamepad is easier for me than using "Simulation" steering with the gamepad in 4za, and LFS has direct stick-to-steering, literally capable of lock-to-lock in a split second (ie. not the BS claims made about "insta-lock" stick steering in console games, and not the colloquial definition of the word "literally"). My tires wear faster from the supernatural abuse, but at least the car drives predictably.

 

[buttsneeze]

I have no constant steering aid when I drive and I'm sick of hearing it too. Of course I use a wheel like how a sim should be driven. Ya I know the little icon moves with telemetry on, but I'm still in full control of my slides.

Correction: "I don't notice any constant driving aid therefore it doesn't exist"

 

[Wolfe]

Correction: "I don't notice any constant driving aid therefore it doesn't exist"

If it did exist, it'd undermine his campaign against controller users. Obviously it mustn't.

 

[I'm Motarded]

Playing Live for Speed with a gamepad is easier for me than using "Simulation" steering with the gamepad in 4za

Seriously? You're good. I can barely get the MRT5 round the track with a controller and when I can the lap times are atrocious compared to a wheel.