circuit experiences are broken...

[gelagmeierter]

CE's are doing a really good job in teaching you how to tackle Tracks the right way.

Back at the start of gt7, when a Daily race featured a track i did not feel confident driving on, i did the CE for that track (back when there was little to no reward involved in doing them).

When i reached gold in all sectors and the full lap i knew i was fast enough to do daily races without beeing all over the place (Low B rank back then).

Its the same with the Licenses in the gt franchise. They are a really good way to teach you how to drive in small chunks. No shame in starting your gt career by only doing bronze level ce's or licenses and then do the singleplayer stuff or even some online races.
After you did several hours of racing try those bronzed ce's and license tests again, you'll see silver is now achieveable.

(problem with the ce frustration might be the high credit payout. top recommended money strategy is golding the ce's so people get frustrated if they can't get there fast)

 

[newmedia_dev]

@330_D i think that is a solid point we all come at this from different levels of time and effort investment.

We all have different levels of "time in the seat" and the long time and the more effort to improve you put in will definitely pay off

 

[ZevZoq]

CE's are doing a really good job in teaching you how to tackle Tracks the right way.

Back at the start of gt7, when a Daily race featured a track i did not feel confident driving on, i did the CE for that track (back when there was little to no reward involved in doing them).

When i reached gold in all sectors and the full lap i knew i was fast enough to do daily races without beeing all over the place (Low B rank back then).

Its the same with the Licenses in the gt franchise. They are a really good way to teach you how to drive in small chunks. No shame in starting your gt career by only doing bronze level ce's or licenses and then do the singleplayer stuff or even some online races.
After you did several hours of racing try those bronzed ce's and license tests again, you'll see silver is now achieveable.

(problem with the ce frustration might be the high credit payout. top recommended money strategy is golding the ce's so people get frustrated if they can't get there fast)

golding the CE's is by no means the top money strategy, if money is the primary concern. That may be the "top recommended" but that's only by people who haven't really thought it through. Getting golds on the CEs mostly pays 1 million, and for most of us it's going to take an hour at least to accomplish - sometimes considerably more than an hour. I can make 1.5 million every hour I spend grinding Sardegna, guaranteed. I've got golds in the "easy" CEs but I can't be bothered wasting the time on the remainder - they are too annoying with the "one and done" style and the little messages from Sarah and the pay isn't worth the effort.

 

[Boxster]

golding the CE's is by no means the top money strategy, if money is the primary concern. That may be the "top recommended" but that's only by people who haven't really thought it through. Getting golds on the CEs mostly pays 1 million, and for most of us it's going to take an hour at least to accomplish - sometimes considerably more than an hour. I can make 1.5 million every hour I spend grinding Sardegna, guaranteed. I've got golds in the "easy" CEs but I can't be bothered wasting the time on the remainder - they are too annoying with the "one and done" style and the little messages from Sarah and the pay isn't worth the effort.

The top money strategy is doing the time trial each week. 15 minutes of effort for a million credits.
After that it's grinding the same race again and again.
I find doing the CE's a good balance of earning credits, gitting gut and fun to do.

 

[ZevZoq]

The top money strategy is doing the time trial each week. 15 minutes of effort for a million credits.
After that it's grinding the same race again and again.
I find doing the CE's a good balance of earning credits, gitting gut and fun to do.

I spend most of my time on the Online TTs every week (and I'd argue I learn a whole lot more from that than from the CEs), but again...as far as money strategy goes they aren't the best. Sure, 1 or 2 million credits is nice (although golding often takes me an hour or more), but they are only one pay per week. So the max I can earn even if I can gold the thing in 15 minutes is 2 million per week. If I'm trying to scrounge up the cash for say a 10 or 20M car in the LCD, 2M per week isn't a whole lot of help.

 

[gelagmeierter]

I spend most of my time on the Online TTs every week (and I'd argue I learn a whole lot more from that than from the CEs), but again...as far as money strategy goes they aren't the best. Sure, 1 or 2 million credits is nice (although golding often takes me an hour or more), but they are only one pay per week. So the max I can earn even if I can gold the thing in 15 minutes is 2 million per week. If I'm trying to scrounge up the cash for say a 10 or 20M car in the LCD, 2M per week isn't a whole lot of help.

My intention was not to debate about what method yields you the most money/time, i only pointed towards claims on youtube like '1 Million in 5 Minutes' where someone just does a ce and fails to mention that getting gold there requires practise and therefore more than 5 minutes of your time.

Same goes with some (not all) of the weekly TT guides out there. 2 mill in 2 mins and all those headlines.

Shout out to Tigney who does it the right way and shows the difficulty of each TT right at the start of his guides.

 

[benjoi84]

I have to say when I was playing GTs 4 thru 6 against my mates, when I thought I was pretty fast, I probably wouldn't have had to pace required to Gold the CEs. It's only now, after several years of participating in online racing, that I've attained the level of driving knowledge to do so.

 

[ZevZoq]

My intention was not to debate about what method yields you the most money/time, i only pointed towards claims on youtube like '1 Million in 5 Minutes' where someone just does a ce and fails to mention that getting gold there requires practise and therefore more than 5 minutes of your time.

Same goes with some (not all) of the weekly TT guides out there. 2 mill in 2 mins and all those headlines.

Shout out to Tigney who does it the right way and shows the difficulty of each TT right at the start of his guides.

yeah, I agree with you. That's sort of the point I was making as well...5 million credits for the Nurburgring CE sounds lovely, except that it's going to take me probably a solid ten hours or more to get it (on top of the several hours I've already spent getting silvers in most sectors lol) and it'll be an enormously frustrating ten hours that I won't really enjoy much. The online TTs otoh I do really enjoy, but again one payout per week no matter how fast you can gold them.

 

[joeyv]

Starting with the most important thing, I am new in this group and I like the way this community reacts and debates. You keep your respect, even offer help and I very much appreciate this. Second most important thing I want to repeat: The game is awesome. For me the best and only game I still play on ps4 and that mainly because of its deepness, love and level of reality. So much going on. Take the music circuits for instance. As a music teacher I can only say BRILLIANT. But my point was and still is. There should be an option call it 'GTPension' (bad joke) or something where you can play the whole game like a little bit easier, you know without the really frustrating moments sometimes or like you all said the 100000 times of trying the same circuit and still not succeed, having to grind for 8 hours on Le Mans to be able to buy a 30 million costing car etc. etc. Think about it, they even put GT7 racers in a real car and some of them did very well! I think that says it all. If you put me in a real formula 1 car I would crasch whatever how long I try I think unless going 5 miles an hour. That said I must contradictory have to admit, I am going to try and tackle the xxxxx CEs again this evening! Pffffff And although I really liked streets of rage 4 I never think about playing it again unless with a friend that comes over...

 

[ZevZoq]

Starting with the most important thing, I am new in this group and I like the way this community reacts and debates. You keep your respect, even offer help and I very much appreciate this. Second most important thing I want to repeat: The game is awesome. For me the best and only game I still play on ps4 and that mainly because of its deepness, love and level of reality. So much going on. Take the music circuits for instance. As a music teacher I can only say BRILLIANT. But my point was and still is. There should be an option call it 'GTPension' (bad joke) or something where you can play the whole game like a little bit easier, you know without the really frustrating moments sometimes or like you all said the 100000 times of trying the same circuit and still not succeed, having to grind for 8 hours on Le Mans to be able to buy a 30 million costing car etc. etc. Think about it, they even put GT7 racers in a real car and some of them did very well! I think that says it all. If you put me in a real formula 1 car I would crasch whatever how long I try I think unless going 5 miles an hour. That said I must contradictory have to admit, I am going to try and tackle the xxxxx CEs again this evening! Pffffff And although I really liked streets of rage 4 I never think about playing it again unless with a friend that comes over...

I understand the frustration, but there's probably always going to be people who can't get the golds very easily. At what point does the adjusting down of difficulty stop? Once everyone can get gold without much frustration? Every week there's an online Time Trial competition in the game and usually about 150,000 take part. Of that small (relative to total GT7 sales figures) group only about 10% get the gold medal. Usually nearly 50% end up in bronze and often 15% or so don't even get that. Of the people who do get gold, most aren't within the top 1000 world wide. The truly elite players in the game get golds in the CEs their first or second attempt. BTW, I'm 58. I do regularly get golds in the Online TTs (with some effort of course). I could gold all the CEs with a lot of effort too...but for now I choose not to bother.

(I agree about the grinding though. The economy in the game is a mess really)

 

[newmedia_dev]

@joeyv I'm glad you see we are all here to help and opine.

I think it really stems from the games foundations there are some insanely difficult challenges through out the series so are missions other almost impossible races to brutally punishing license tests.

The game is designed around the ethos: Easy to play, difficult to master.

The challenge is by design and to honest fairly well calibrated to the vast majority of players.

It would help to recalibrate a bit and get more experience controlling the game cars and learning a bit more of the fidelity. That will help you a lot.

The CE aren't part of the core game, more a set of mini challenges that prove your car control. Typically you want to work through them but getting all bronze then coming back to them and aiming for silver etc

I have 6500+ hours with the game and even one or two of the experiences are not a "one and done" thing and can take a fair few tries.

Winning races against the AI doesn't transfer over very well to doing well in the CEs so it's definitely worth approaching them with "what can I learn about this corner/sector" and taking that in and trying to apply it.

Learning braking markers and acceleration markers, watching the demo ghost and then turning it on to follow with a small offset will help loads.

Good luck and go forth and conquer 🍻

 

[ZevZoq]

I'm curious...what are the world record times in say the Nurburgring CE and how does that relate to the gold target time? For the online TTs the gold target is 3% off whatever the current top time in the world is. I wonder if the CE times are calibrated in a relatively similar way or are they more (or less) difficult...

(with a couple of the CEs it does feel to me like it's a little more difficult than that)

 

[Famine]

I'm curious...what are the world record times in say the Nurburgring CE and how does that relate to the gold target time? For the online TTs the gold target is 3% off whatever the current top time in the world is. I wonder if the CE times are calibrated in a relatively similar way or are they more (or less) difficult...

(with a couple of the CEs it does feel to me like it's a little more difficult than that)

They're mostly surprisingly close to the 3% gap actually.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I'm curious...what are the world record times in say the Nurburgring CE and how does that relate to the gold target time? For the online TTs the gold target is 3% off whatever the current top time in the world is. I wonder if the CE times are calibrated in a relatively similar way or are they more (or less) difficult...

It depends, they have adjusted a lot of the times down in the last few updates (where physics changes are a bigger part/tire physics etc)

Some of the sector times have dropped by a few tenths, some of the lap times by up to 3 seconds.

But TTs and CEs aren't comparing apples to apples. TTs are a "free market" where the time to get within the margin is set by the fastest players, CEs are a fixed point with a fixed goal (updates excluded) that doesn't move, has demonstration ghosts and calibrated to take in to account AT use, some assists etc.

The changed times for the CEs is a bit of a red herring though as inherently the tires and car handling has improved (got easier) so the adjustments just factor that in, they are still relative to launch in difficulty/learning curve etc.

 

[ZevZoq]

They're mostly surprisingly close to the 3% gap actually.

yeah, with the TTs it looks like basically a 10% thing (in a general sense.) In other words, a gold time is something approximately 10% of GT players are able to achieve. It would make sense that the CEs are designed for a similar sort of threshold...

It depends, they have adjusted a lot of the times down in the last few updates (where physics changes are a bigger part/tire physics etc)

Some of the sector times have dropped by a few tenths, some of the lap times by up to 3 seconds.

But TTs and CEs aren't comparing apples to apples. TTs are a "free market" where the time to get within the margin is set by the fastest players, CEs are a fixed point with a fixed goal (updates excluded) that doesn't move, has demonstration ghosts and calibrated to take in to account AT use, some assists etc.

The changed times for the CEs is a bit of a red herring though as inherently the tires and car handling has improved (got easier) so the adjustments just factor that in, they are still relative to launch in difficulty/learning curve etc.

right, I'd assume the time changes are designed to keep the general difficult basically the same given the physics changes.

 

[newmedia_dev]

yeah, with the TTs it looks like basically a 10% thing (in a general sense.) In other words, a gold time is something approximately 10% of GT players are able to achieve. It would make sense that the CEs are designed for a similar sort of threshold...

TTs are a lot more varied than that. If you look at the TT results thread there are certain combos that trend way lower than that and others that skew way high in gold rates.

It should be said also is that the lap attack golds are more generous that adding all the sector gold times together to set the gold lap.

Edit: Exactly that, they retested the difficulty and adjusted accordingly to whatever internal level they think is right based on latest feedback etc.

 

[ZevZoq]

TTs are a lot more varied than that. If you look at the TT results thread there are certain combos that trend way lower than that and others that skew way high in gold rates.

It should be said also is that the lap attack golds are more generous that adding all the sector gold times together to set the gold lap.

yep I'm aware of all that. Just talking in broad generalities here really.

Thank goodness those lap attack times are a little more generous because a full lap of the Ring is a totally different thing from the individual sectors lol!

 

[newmedia_dev]

yep I'm aware of all that. Just talking in broad generalities here really.

Generally you'd expect things to fall in to ranges they they then target each sector/track time to.

I generally think exactly the same as you.

10% of the player base will achieve golds
20-30% silver
40% Bronze

But I'd imagine bigger part of the player base doesn't really try that hard with them especially if they are casual players and it's the credits they want as early stated the effort/reward for the majority will be a barrier.

 

[ZevZoq]

Oh yeah absolutely. Using the online TT competition as a guide is a little flawed because it's not really a sample of the actual broad player base. It's probably (almost certainly) skewed to some degree towards the "better/more committed" players.

Maybe a better way to put it would be that the barometer they are shooting for is something like "roughly 10% of the players who make a real effort can attain the gold."

 

[330_D]

Oh yeah absolutely. Using the online TT competition as a guide is a little flawed because it's not really a sample of the actual broad player base. It's probably (almost certainly) skewed to some degree towards the "better/more committed" players.

Maybe a better way to put it would be that the barometer they are shooting for is something like "roughly 10% of the players who make a real effort can attain the gold."

Comparing times in the TTs here is not the way to understand how fast you are. The TT thread (as you well know) is chock full of the fastest players. I think there were 17 or 18 people here in that thread who are in the top 100 worldwide for the BH trial with the Ferrari. I don't have the numbers for GTP members who get gold but I guarantee it's not a graph you can compare to the rest of the world. It's extremely skewed and I would offer this is likely the fastest gt7 community that exists on the whole. If you want to git gud, paying attention here is most certainly one of the best ways to do so. There are no stones left unturned by users here and we all find little things that help us. I know whose ghosts I need to chase in the trials because of my driving style and that's not the same for you or for anyone for that matter... Figuring out what methods work individually while using the info this place (or wherever you prefer) to figure out the puzzle. That's all this is, a puzzle...

 

[ZevZoq]

Comparing times in the TTs here is not the way to understand how fast you are. The TT thread (as you well know) is chock full of the fastest players. I think there were 17 or 18 people here in that thread who are in the top 100 worldwide for the BH trial with the Ferrari. I don't have the numbers for GTP members who get gold but I guarantee it's not a graph you can compare to the rest of the world. It's extremely skewed and I would offer this is likely the fastest gt7 community that exists on the whole. If you want to git gud, paying attention here is most certainly one of the best ways to do so. There are no stones left unturned by users here and we all find little things that help us. I know whose ghosts I need to chase in the trials because of my driving style and that's not the same for you or for anyone for that matter... Figuring out what methods work individually while using the info this place (or wherever you prefer) to figure out the puzzle. That's all this is, a puzzle...

I'm not comparing times here ... I'm using the overall online TT numbers. If I were just talking about us here at the forum it would be more like 75% get gold. lol

 

[330_D]

Of course. I was just saying that this place is so skewed that is hard to know the reality other than looking at the overall statistics and not just in here.

Cheers.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Starting with the most important thing, I am new in this group and I like the way this community reacts and debates. You keep your respect, even offer help and I very much appreciate this. Second most important thing I want to repeat: The game is awesome. For me the best and only game I still play on ps4 and that mainly because of its deepness, love and level of reality. So much going on. Take the music circuits for instance. As a music teacher I can only say BRILLIANT. But my point was and still is. There should be an option call it 'GTPension' (bad joke) or something where you can play the whole game like a little bit easier, you know without the really frustrating moments sometimes or like you all said the 100000 times of trying the same circuit and still not succeed, having to grind for 8 hours on Le Mans to be able to buy a 30 million costing car etc. etc.

Ok, there's a lot to unpack, so I hope you hear me out.

First off, on the age part, I'm 56. I'm an A+ DR, I have gold on all the license tests and the CE's. So, it's not your age.

I've also designed games, and taught game design, so I know what I am talking about.

What Gran Turismo does, extremely well, is the implementation of the "intermittent reward schedule". In short, it's giving the player rewards at irregular intervals. This type of schedule is INCREDIBLY addictive. Have you ever been 0.5 seconds from a gold? Or how about 0.001 seconds from a gold? The closer you get, the more you want to get there!!

Now, you feel that "gold" should be easier, but that would make the entire game experience worse. It makes the game boring, really fast. This is the issue that many have with the single player portion of the game. For the vast majority of the events, a win is almost assured if you have the ability to get around the track without crashing. Ergo, the events are boring.

Gran Turismo's best elements are not about winning the goals. It's about the process of getting to the goals.

Think about it, they even put GT7 racers in a real car and some of them did very well! I think that says it all. If you put me in a real formula 1 car I would crasch whatever how long I try I think unless going 5 miles an hour. That said I must contradictory have to admit, I am going to try and tackle the xxxxx CEs again this evening! Pffffff And although I really liked streets of rage 4 I never think about playing it again unless with a friend that comes over...

And this, the close tie to reality, is something else that GT does not get enough credit for (and endless complaints about). IMHO GT is the best racer out there because it follows another great game design principle. It's easy to play, but hard to master.

I will contrast it to the MotoGP games from Milestone. They are awful in my opinion. Not to get too much into it, but I can competently handle a motorcycle on a race track in real life. But give me that game, that is supposedly "realistic", and I can't play it. I can't even enter a turn with out falling off. It's awful. (on a side note I keep praying PD releases Tourist Trophy again). Even when you manage to do a decent lap, it's still nowhere close to reality. The "realism" made it terribly unrealistic.

In GT, it's not frustrating like that. In the daily race thread, a member mentioned that his 9 year old plays. That's the perfect balance. It's easy enough for a child to pick up and play. But being a master of the game takes time and dedication.

So, sorry for the novel. In short, enjoy the journey. If the achievements were easy, they wouldn't be achievements.

 

[newmedia_dev]

What Gran Turismo does, extremely well, is the implementation of the "intermittent reward schedule". In short, it's giving the player rewards at irregular intervals. This type of schedule is INCREDIBLY addictive. Have you ever been 0.5 seconds from a gold? Or how about 0.001 seconds from a gold? The closer you get, the more you want to get there!!

lol that's ridiculous, firstly you have to discover circuit experiences which after the menu book you'd never go to unless you looked or knew they were there and wanted to drive without competition or reward.

They set the times based on the average of the ghost, not some sort of weird hidden hook you in dark pattern.

Litterally Bob the play tester went this fast, ok well knock a 10th of and that's gold, drop a bit more and see how Bob does with auto and tc....etc etc

The hook isn't by design, it's human nature to chase targets regardless of what they are. I'd imagine the targets are set aggressively for CEs because it matters to overall driving capability rather than creating addictive patters/habits.

 

[330_D]

Ok, there's a lot to unpack, so I hope you hear me out.

First off, on the age part, I'm 56. I'm an A+ DR, I have gold on all the license tests and the CE's. So, it's not your age.

I've also designed games, and taught game design, so I know what I am talking about.

What Gran Turismo does, extremely well, is the implementation of the "intermittent reward schedule". In short, it's giving the player rewards at irregular intervals. This type of schedule is INCREDIBLY addictive. Have you ever been 0.5 seconds from a gold? Or how about 0.001 seconds from a gold? The closer you get, the more you want to get there!!

Now, you feel that "gold" should be easier, but that would make the entire game experience worse. It makes the game boring, really fast. This is the issue that many have with the single player portion of the game. For the vast majority of the events, a win is almost assured if you have the ability to get around the track without crashing. Ergo, the events are boring.

Gran Turismo's best elements are not about winning the goals. It's about the process of getting to the goals.

And this, the close tie to reality, is something else that GT does not get enough credit for (and endless complaints about). IMHO GT is the best racer out there because it follows another great game design principle. It's easy to play, but hard to master.

I will contrast it to the MotoGP games from Milestone. They are awful in my opinion. Not to get too much into it, but I can competently handle a motorcycle on a race track in real life. But give me that game, that is supposedly "realistic", and I can't play it. I can't even enter a turn with out falling off. It's awful. (on a side note I keep praying PD releases Tourist Trophy again). Even when you manage to do a decent lap, it's still nowhere close to reality. The "realism" made it terribly unrealistic.

In GT, it's not frustrating like that. In the daily race thread, a member mentioned that his 9 year old plays. That's the perfect balance. It's easy enough for a child to pick up and play. But being a master of the game takes time and dedication.

So, sorry for the novel. In short, enjoy the journey. If the achievements were easy, they wouldn't be achievements.

Plus a million for Tourist Trophy. I absolutely loved that game. I think my kid has my copy somewhere in storage. I think it was even more addictive than GT.

 

[joeyv]

I understand the frustration, but there's probably always going to be people who can't get the golds very easily. At what point does the adjusting down of difficulty stop? Once everyone can get gold without much frustration? Every week there's an online Time Trial competition in the game and usually about 150,000 take part. Of that small (relative to total GT7 sales figures) group only about 10% get the gold medal. Usually nearly 50% end up in bronze and often 15% or so don't even get that. Of the people who do get gold, most aren't within the top 1000 world wide. The truly elite players in the game get golds in the CEs their first or second attempt. BTW, I'm 58. I do regularly get golds in the Online TTs (with some effort of course). I could gold all the CEs with a lot of effort too...but for now I choose not to bother.

(I agree about the grinding though. The economy in the game is a mess really)

To react, indeed that is my point, give

Ok, there's a lot to unpack, so I hope you hear me out.

First off, on the age part, I'm 56. I'm an A+ DR, I have gold on all the license tests and the CE's. So, it's not your age.

I've also designed games, and taught game design, so I know what I am talking about.

What Gran Turismo does, extremely well, is the implementation of the "intermittent reward schedule". In short, it's giving the player rewards at irregular intervals. This type of schedule is INCREDIBLY addictive. Have you ever been 0.5 seconds from a gold? Or how about 0.001 seconds from a gold? The closer you get, the more you want to get there!!

Now, you feel that "gold" should be easier, but that would make the entire game experience worse. It makes the game boring, really fast. This is the issue that many have with the single player portion of the game. For the vast majority of the events, a win is almost assured if you have the ability to get around the track without crashing. Ergo, the events are boring.

Gran Turismo's best elements are not about winning the goals. It's about the process of getting to the goals.

And this, the close tie to reality, is something else that GT does not get enough credit for (and endless complaints about). IMHO GT is the best racer out there because it follows another great game design principle. It's easy to play, but hard to master.

I will contrast it to the MotoGP games from Milestone. They are awful in my opinion. Not to get too much into it, but I can competently handle a motorcycle on a race track in real life. But give me that game, that is supposedly "realistic", and I can't play it. I can't even enter a turn with out falling off. It's awful. (on a side note I keep praying PD releases Tourist Trophy again). Even when you manage to do a decent lap, it's still nowhere close to reality. The "realism" made it terribly unrealistic.

In GT, it's not frustrating like that. In the daily race thread, a member mentioned that his 9 year old plays. That's the perfect balance. It's easy enough for a child to pick up and play. But being a master of the game takes time and dedication.

So, sorry for the novel. In short, enjoy the journey. If the achievements were easy, they wouldn't be

You state something that wil be the case

Ok, there's a lot to unpack, so I hope you hear me out.

First off, on the age part, I'm 56. I'm an A+ DR, I have gold on all the license tests and the CE's. So, it's not your age.

I've also designed games, and taught game design, so I know what I am talking about.

What Gran Turismo does, extremely well, is the implementation of the "intermittent reward schedule". In short, it's giving the player rewards at irregular intervals. This type of schedule is INCREDIBLY addictive. Have you ever been 0.5 seconds from a gold? Or how about 0.001 seconds from a gold? The closer you get, the more you want to get there!!

Now, you feel that "gold" should be easier, but that would make the entire game experience worse. It makes the game boring, really fast. This is the issue that many have with the single player portion of the game. For the vast majority of the events, a win is almost assured if you have the ability to get around the track without crashing. Ergo, the events are boring.

Gran Turismo's best elements are not about winning the goals. It's about the process of getting to the goals.

And this, the close tie to reality, is something else that GT does not get enough credit for (and endless complaints about). IMHO GT is the best racer out there because it follows another great game design principle. It's easy to play, but hard to master.

I will contrast it to the MotoGP games from Milestone. They are awful in my opinion. Not to get too much into it, but I can competently handle a motorcycle on a race track in real life. But give me that game, that is supposedly "realistic", and I can't play it. I can't even enter a turn with out falling off. It's awful. (on a side note I keep praying PD releases Tourist Trophy again). Even when you manage to do a decent lap, it's still nowhere close to reality. The "realism" made it terribly unrealistic.

In GT, it's not frustrating like that. In the daily race thread, a member mentioned that his 9 year old plays. That's the perfect balance. It's easy enough for a child to pick up and play. But being a master of the game takes time and dedication.

So, sorry for the novel. In short, enjoy the journey. If the achievements were easy, they wouldn't be achievements.

Dear,

Thanks for your reaction but you state a lot of things that are the case for you. For me the game wouldn't be boring if you drop the difficulty just a notch on some races. On the contrary I would enjoy it even more cause I could succeed more.
What you get now is that I leave the most difficult races for what they are and NEVER do them because I simply can't no matter how long I try. It's like you trying to become Mozart on your 56 year old age. You can enjoy learning music but you will never manage to get to a certain level some other people can who started on their age of 3 can and even they often can't. So age certainly matters. Otherwise there would be a lot of 80 year old Olympic candidates.
So again it would be nice just to have the option to lower the difficulty a little notch so I can learn and succeed at ALL races.
Now I start by grinding a few hours on Le Mans or Sardegna and that is becoming the boring part and I think I am not alone on that.