circuit experiences are broken...

[gelagmeierter]

CE's are doing a really good job in teaching you how to tackle Tracks the right way.

Back at the start of gt7, when a Daily race featured a track i did not feel confident driving on, i did the CE for that track (back when there was little to no reward involved in doing them).

When i reached gold in all sectors and the full lap i knew i was fast enough to do daily races without beeing all over the place (Low B rank back then).

Its the same with the Licenses in the gt franchise. They are a really good way to teach you how to drive in small chunks. No shame in starting your gt career by only doing bronze level ce's or licenses and then do the singleplayer stuff or even some online races.
After you did several hours of racing try those bronzed ce's and license tests again, you'll see silver is now achieveable.

(problem with the ce frustration might be the high credit payout. top recommended money strategy is golding the ce's so people get frustrated if they can't get there fast)

 

[newmedia_dev]

@330_D i think that is a solid point we all come at this from different levels of time and effort investment.

We all have different levels of "time in the seat" and the long time and the more effort to improve you put in will definitely pay off

 

[ZevZoq]

CE's are doing a really good job in teaching you how to tackle Tracks the right way.

Back at the start of gt7, when a Daily race featured a track i did not feel confident driving on, i did the CE for that track (back when there was little to no reward involved in doing them).

When i reached gold in all sectors and the full lap i knew i was fast enough to do daily races without beeing all over the place (Low B rank back then).

Its the same with the Licenses in the gt franchise. They are a really good way to teach you how to drive in small chunks. No shame in starting your gt career by only doing bronze level ce's or licenses and then do the singleplayer stuff or even some online races.
After you did several hours of racing try those bronzed ce's and license tests again, you'll see silver is now achieveable.

(problem with the ce frustration might be the high credit payout. top recommended money strategy is golding the ce's so people get frustrated if they can't get there fast)

golding the CE's is by no means the top money strategy, if money is the primary concern. That may be the "top recommended" but that's only by people who haven't really thought it through. Getting golds on the CEs mostly pays 1 million, and for most of us it's going to take an hour at least to accomplish - sometimes considerably more than an hour. I can make 1.5 million every hour I spend grinding Sardegna, guaranteed. I've got golds in the "easy" CEs but I can't be bothered wasting the time on the remainder - they are too annoying with the "one and done" style and the little messages from Sarah and the pay isn't worth the effort.

 

[Boxster]

golding the CE's is by no means the top money strategy, if money is the primary concern. That may be the "top recommended" but that's only by people who haven't really thought it through. Getting golds on the CEs mostly pays 1 million, and for most of us it's going to take an hour at least to accomplish - sometimes considerably more than an hour. I can make 1.5 million every hour I spend grinding Sardegna, guaranteed. I've got golds in the "easy" CEs but I can't be bothered wasting the time on the remainder - they are too annoying with the "one and done" style and the little messages from Sarah and the pay isn't worth the effort.

The top money strategy is doing the time trial each week. 15 minutes of effort for a million credits.
After that it's grinding the same race again and again.
I find doing the CE's a good balance of earning credits, gitting gut and fun to do.

 

[ZevZoq]

The top money strategy is doing the time trial each week. 15 minutes of effort for a million credits.
After that it's grinding the same race again and again.
I find doing the CE's a good balance of earning credits, gitting gut and fun to do.

I spend most of my time on the Online TTs every week (and I'd argue I learn a whole lot more from that than from the CEs), but again...as far as money strategy goes they aren't the best. Sure, 1 or 2 million credits is nice (although golding often takes me an hour or more), but they are only one pay per week. So the max I can earn even if I can gold the thing in 15 minutes is 2 million per week. If I'm trying to scrounge up the cash for say a 10 or 20M car in the LCD, 2M per week isn't a whole lot of help.

 

[gelagmeierter]

I spend most of my time on the Online TTs every week (and I'd argue I learn a whole lot more from that than from the CEs), but again...as far as money strategy goes they aren't the best. Sure, 1 or 2 million credits is nice (although golding often takes me an hour or more), but they are only one pay per week. So the max I can earn even if I can gold the thing in 15 minutes is 2 million per week. If I'm trying to scrounge up the cash for say a 10 or 20M car in the LCD, 2M per week isn't a whole lot of help.

My intention was not to debate about what method yields you the most money/time, i only pointed towards claims on youtube like '1 Million in 5 Minutes' where someone just does a ce and fails to mention that getting gold there requires practise and therefore more than 5 minutes of your time.

Same goes with some (not all) of the weekly TT guides out there. 2 mill in 2 mins and all those headlines.

Shout out to Tigney who does it the right way and shows the difficulty of each TT right at the start of his guides.

 

[benjoi84]

I have to say when I was playing GTs 4 thru 6 against my mates, when I thought I was pretty fast, I probably wouldn't have had to pace required to Gold the CEs. It's only now, after several years of participating in online racing, that I've attained the level of driving knowledge to do so.

 

[ZevZoq]

My intention was not to debate about what method yields you the most money/time, i only pointed towards claims on youtube like '1 Million in 5 Minutes' where someone just does a ce and fails to mention that getting gold there requires practise and therefore more than 5 minutes of your time.

Same goes with some (not all) of the weekly TT guides out there. 2 mill in 2 mins and all those headlines.

Shout out to Tigney who does it the right way and shows the difficulty of each TT right at the start of his guides.

yeah, I agree with you. That's sort of the point I was making as well...5 million credits for the Nurburgring CE sounds lovely, except that it's going to take me probably a solid ten hours or more to get it (on top of the several hours I've already spent getting silvers in most sectors lol) and it'll be an enormously frustrating ten hours that I won't really enjoy much. The online TTs otoh I do really enjoy, but again one payout per week no matter how fast you can gold them.

 

[joeyv]

Starting with the most important thing, I am new in this group and I like the way this community reacts and debates. You keep your respect, even offer help and I very much appreciate this. Second most important thing I want to repeat: The game is awesome. For me the best and only game I still play on ps4 and that mainly because of its deepness, love and level of reality. So much going on. Take the music circuits for instance. As a music teacher I can only say BRILLIANT. But my point was and still is. There should be an option call it 'GTPension' (bad joke) or something where you can play the whole game like a little bit easier, you know without the really frustrating moments sometimes or like you all said the 100000 times of trying the same circuit and still not succeed, having to grind for 8 hours on Le Mans to be able to buy a 30 million costing car etc. etc. Think about it, they even put GT7 racers in a real car and some of them did very well! I think that says it all. If you put me in a real formula 1 car I would crasch whatever how long I try I think unless going 5 miles an hour. That said I must contradictory have to admit, I am going to try and tackle the xxxxx CEs again this evening! Pffffff And although I really liked streets of rage 4 I never think about playing it again unless with a friend that comes over...

 

[ZevZoq]

Starting with the most important thing, I am new in this group and I like the way this community reacts and debates. You keep your respect, even offer help and I very much appreciate this. Second most important thing I want to repeat: The game is awesome. For me the best and only game I still play on ps4 and that mainly because of its deepness, love and level of reality. So much going on. Take the music circuits for instance. As a music teacher I can only say BRILLIANT. But my point was and still is. There should be an option call it 'GTPension' (bad joke) or something where you can play the whole game like a little bit easier, you know without the really frustrating moments sometimes or like you all said the 100000 times of trying the same circuit and still not succeed, having to grind for 8 hours on Le Mans to be able to buy a 30 million costing car etc. etc. Think about it, they even put GT7 racers in a real car and some of them did very well! I think that says it all. If you put me in a real formula 1 car I would crasch whatever how long I try I think unless going 5 miles an hour. That said I must contradictory have to admit, I am going to try and tackle the xxxxx CEs again this evening! Pffffff And although I really liked streets of rage 4 I never think about playing it again unless with a friend that comes over...

I understand the frustration, but there's probably always going to be people who can't get the golds very easily. At what point does the adjusting down of difficulty stop? Once everyone can get gold without much frustration? Every week there's an online Time Trial competition in the game and usually about 150,000 take part. Of that small (relative to total GT7 sales figures) group only about 10% get the gold medal. Usually nearly 50% end up in bronze and often 15% or so don't even get that. Of the people who do get gold, most aren't within the top 1000 world wide. The truly elite players in the game get golds in the CEs their first or second attempt. BTW, I'm 58. I do regularly get golds in the Online TTs (with some effort of course). I could gold all the CEs with a lot of effort too...but for now I choose not to bother.

(I agree about the grinding though. The economy in the game is a mess really)

 

[newmedia_dev]

@joeyv I'm glad you see we are all here to help and opine.

I think it really stems from the games foundations there are some insanely difficult challenges through out the series so are missions other almost impossible races to brutally punishing license tests.

The game is designed around the ethos: Easy to play, difficult to master.

The challenge is by design and to honest fairly well calibrated to the vast majority of players.

It would help to recalibrate a bit and get more experience controlling the game cars and learning a bit more of the fidelity. That will help you a lot.

The CE aren't part of the core game, more a set of mini challenges that prove your car control. Typically you want to work through them but getting all bronze then coming back to them and aiming for silver etc

I have 6500+ hours with the game and even one or two of the experiences are not a "one and done" thing and can take a fair few tries.

Winning races against the AI doesn't transfer over very well to doing well in the CEs so it's definitely worth approaching them with "what can I learn about this corner/sector" and taking that in and trying to apply it.

Learning braking markers and acceleration markers, watching the demo ghost and then turning it on to follow with a small offset will help loads.

Good luck and go forth and conquer 🍻

 

[ZevZoq]

I'm curious...what are the world record times in say the Nurburgring CE and how does that relate to the gold target time? For the online TTs the gold target is 3% off whatever the current top time in the world is. I wonder if the CE times are calibrated in a relatively similar way or are they more (or less) difficult...

(with a couple of the CEs it does feel to me like it's a little more difficult than that)

 

[Famine]

I'm curious...what are the world record times in say the Nurburgring CE and how does that relate to the gold target time? For the online TTs the gold target is 3% off whatever the current top time in the world is. I wonder if the CE times are calibrated in a relatively similar way or are they more (or less) difficult...

(with a couple of the CEs it does feel to me like it's a little more difficult than that)

They're mostly surprisingly close to the 3% gap actually.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I'm curious...what are the world record times in say the Nurburgring CE and how does that relate to the gold target time? For the online TTs the gold target is 3% off whatever the current top time in the world is. I wonder if the CE times are calibrated in a relatively similar way or are they more (or less) difficult...

It depends, they have adjusted a lot of the times down in the last few updates (where physics changes are a bigger part/tire physics etc)

Some of the sector times have dropped by a few tenths, some of the lap times by up to 3 seconds.

But TTs and CEs aren't comparing apples to apples. TTs are a "free market" where the time to get within the margin is set by the fastest players, CEs are a fixed point with a fixed goal (updates excluded) that doesn't move, has demonstration ghosts and calibrated to take in to account AT use, some assists etc.

The changed times for the CEs is a bit of a red herring though as inherently the tires and car handling has improved (got easier) so the adjustments just factor that in, they are still relative to launch in difficulty/learning curve etc.

 

[ZevZoq]

They're mostly surprisingly close to the 3% gap actually.

yeah, with the TTs it looks like basically a 10% thing (in a general sense.) In other words, a gold time is something approximately 10% of GT players are able to achieve. It would make sense that the CEs are designed for a similar sort of threshold...

It depends, they have adjusted a lot of the times down in the last few updates (where physics changes are a bigger part/tire physics etc)

Some of the sector times have dropped by a few tenths, some of the lap times by up to 3 seconds.

But TTs and CEs aren't comparing apples to apples. TTs are a "free market" where the time to get within the margin is set by the fastest players, CEs are a fixed point with a fixed goal (updates excluded) that doesn't move, has demonstration ghosts and calibrated to take in to account AT use, some assists etc.

The changed times for the CEs is a bit of a red herring though as inherently the tires and car handling has improved (got easier) so the adjustments just factor that in, they are still relative to launch in difficulty/learning curve etc.

right, I'd assume the time changes are designed to keep the general difficult basically the same given the physics changes.

 

[newmedia_dev]

yeah, with the TTs it looks like basically a 10% thing (in a general sense.) In other words, a gold time is something approximately 10% of GT players are able to achieve. It would make sense that the CEs are designed for a similar sort of threshold...

TTs are a lot more varied than that. If you look at the TT results thread there are certain combos that trend way lower than that and others that skew way high in gold rates.

It should be said also is that the lap attack golds are more generous that adding all the sector gold times together to set the gold lap.

Edit: Exactly that, they retested the difficulty and adjusted accordingly to whatever internal level they think is right based on latest feedback etc.

 

[ZevZoq]

TTs are a lot more varied than that. If you look at the TT results thread there are certain combos that trend way lower than that and others that skew way high in gold rates.

It should be said also is that the lap attack golds are more generous that adding all the sector gold times together to set the gold lap.

yep I'm aware of all that. Just talking in broad generalities here really.

Thank goodness those lap attack times are a little more generous because a full lap of the Ring is a totally different thing from the individual sectors lol!

 

[newmedia_dev]

yep I'm aware of all that. Just talking in broad generalities here really.

Generally you'd expect things to fall in to ranges they they then target each sector/track time to.

I generally think exactly the same as you.

10% of the player base will achieve golds
20-30% silver
40% Bronze

But I'd imagine bigger part of the player base doesn't really try that hard with them especially if they are casual players and it's the credits they want as early stated the effort/reward for the majority will be a barrier.

 

[ZevZoq]

Oh yeah absolutely. Using the online TT competition as a guide is a little flawed because it's not really a sample of the actual broad player base. It's probably (almost certainly) skewed to some degree towards the "better/more committed" players.

Maybe a better way to put it would be that the barometer they are shooting for is something like "roughly 10% of the players who make a real effort can attain the gold."

 

[330_D]

Oh yeah absolutely. Using the online TT competition as a guide is a little flawed because it's not really a sample of the actual broad player base. It's probably (almost certainly) skewed to some degree towards the "better/more committed" players.

Maybe a better way to put it would be that the barometer they are shooting for is something like "roughly 10% of the players who make a real effort can attain the gold."

Comparing times in the TTs here is not the way to understand how fast you are. The TT thread (as you well know) is chock full of the fastest players. I think there were 17 or 18 people here in that thread who are in the top 100 worldwide for the BH trial with the Ferrari. I don't have the numbers for GTP members who get gold but I guarantee it's not a graph you can compare to the rest of the world. It's extremely skewed and I would offer this is likely the fastest gt7 community that exists on the whole. If you want to git gud, paying attention here is most certainly one of the best ways to do so. There are no stones left unturned by users here and we all find little things that help us. I know whose ghosts I need to chase in the trials because of my driving style and that's not the same for you or for anyone for that matter... Figuring out what methods work individually while using the info this place (or wherever you prefer) to figure out the puzzle. That's all this is, a puzzle...

 

[ZevZoq]

Comparing times in the TTs here is not the way to understand how fast you are. The TT thread (as you well know) is chock full of the fastest players. I think there were 17 or 18 people here in that thread who are in the top 100 worldwide for the BH trial with the Ferrari. I don't have the numbers for GTP members who get gold but I guarantee it's not a graph you can compare to the rest of the world. It's extremely skewed and I would offer this is likely the fastest gt7 community that exists on the whole. If you want to git gud, paying attention here is most certainly one of the best ways to do so. There are no stones left unturned by users here and we all find little things that help us. I know whose ghosts I need to chase in the trials because of my driving style and that's not the same for you or for anyone for that matter... Figuring out what methods work individually while using the info this place (or wherever you prefer) to figure out the puzzle. That's all this is, a puzzle...

I'm not comparing times here ... I'm using the overall online TT numbers. If I were just talking about us here at the forum it would be more like 75% get gold. lol

 

[330_D]

Of course. I was just saying that this place is so skewed that is hard to know the reality other than looking at the overall statistics and not just in here.

Cheers.