My God!! Voice of Reason strikes in road safety debate!!

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vat_man

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From http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/07/16/1026802691123.html

Poor roads, badly designed vehicles and inadequate crash barriers played a deadly role in keeping Victoria's road toll at unacceptably high levels, a road safety conference was told yesterday.

Better law enforcement and high-profile public education campaigns to improve driver behaviour were unlikely to have any significant impact on the number of deaths, the Melbourne conference was told.

What was really needed, according to Monash University accident researchers and engineers, was a massive overhaul of Australian design standards.

"Constant exhortations to drive safely are not the answer," said George Rechnitzer, a senior research fellow and engineer at Monash University Accident Research Centre.

Presenting the Monash study, Mr Rechnitzer said areas in need of urgent attention were vehicle rollover standards, particularly in relation to four-wheel-drives, the design of truck trays to prevent cars from diving beneath them, the fitting of bullbars and crash-barrier design.

Mr Rechnitzer said vehicle design and Victoria's roads did not allow for the inevitability of human error. To achieve Australia's national road safety strategy target of a 40 per cent reduction in the road toll by 2010, engineering design standards had to be tackled, he said.

The study said that four-wheel-drives, which account for about 30 per cent of passenger vehicles, were especially vulnerable to rolling over because of their high centres of gravity.

Video footage shown at the conference demonstrated that four-wheel-drives were easily toppled by ruts on the edges of roads or by sudden changes in direction.

Despite more than one in five road deaths being the result of rollovers, there were no Australian design standards on a vehicle's propensity to roll over, he said.

"If you look at the structure an design of four-wheel-drives, they're totally devoid of any reality in terms of protecting occupants in rollovers," he said.

Results of crash tests between four-wheel-drives and cars showed that four-wheel-drives struck with about four times the force of a car.

Mr Rechnitzer said it was urgent that a rollover test and a star-rating system be introduced.

Also of concern, according to the study, were the unyielding steel structures of bullbars, the front ends of trains, trams and buses and truck trays.

Crashes into truck trays accounted for 14 deaths a year, demonstrating the need for what he called a "vehicle aggressivity" design standard.

Mr Rechnitzer said four out every 10 car occupant deaths resulted from hitting roadside hazards, such as trees and poles. Other hazards included bridge pylons, freeway crossovers and poorly designed barriers.

Crash barriers that were incompatible with car designs could result in a car being impaled by the barrier rails, the study showed.

Monash University Accident Research Centre director Ian Johnston called for radical action to make a short-term impact on the road toll, including slowing urban arterial speed limits to 60 kmh and dropping strip-shopping centre zones to 40 kmh.

Nearly half of Victoria's road fatalities and serious injuries - including pedestrians being hit, vehicles running off the road and intersection crashes - occurred on Melbourne's metropolitan roads, Dr Johnston said.

Sixty per cent of side-impact crashes occurred at intersections, with a fatality risk 2.3 times greater than a frontal crash.
 
Originally posted by vat_man
"Constant exhortations to drive safely are not the answer,"

I hate being told to drive safely or carefully. I'm like "OK, since you asked, I'll stop trying to have a shunt. Muppet".

I always want to say to these "Public Service" adverts "Educate me, don't patronise me. Or blame me."
 
Holy chit man...fully twenty percent of driving deaths in your area are due to rollovers?! I don't it's even that high in the US. You must have Landstalkers down there. :lol:

Seriously, a lot of these problems could be solved if 4x4s had a slightly wider wheelbase...
 
Originally posted by risingson77
Holy chit man...fully twenty percent of driving deaths in your area are due to rollovers?! I don't it's even that high in the US. You must have Landstalkers down there. :lol:

Uh - I looked around - the figure's 22% in the US...
 
Originally posted by vat_man
Uh - I looked around - the figure's 22% in the US...

Coincides with the high number of SUV's doesn't it? BTW, do you happen to know where to get that statistic over the past 15 years? I'm interested in knowing if it went up over the past 10.
 
Originally posted by Hooligan


Coincides with the high number of SUV's doesn't it? BTW, do you happen to know where to get that statistic over the past 15 years? I'm interested in knowing if it went up over the past 10.

You'd have to go through the US department of transport - I only snagged that snippet via a Google search on a CNN article.

I wonder what the stat would be if you took out the Explorer/Firestone debacle?
 
Originally posted by vat_man
Uh - I looked around - the figure's 22% in the US...

:eek: Well, we can't be second, can we? :rolleyes:

I really think that people should have at least some extra formal training to drive trucks or SUVs. Many of these rollovers are caused by inexperienced drivers (in addition to poor vehicle design).
 
Originally posted by risingson77


:eek: Well, we can't be second, can we? :rolleyes:

I really think that people should have at least some extra formal training to drive trucks or SUVs. Many of these rollovers are caused by inexperienced drivers (in addition to poor vehicle design).

What an eminently sensible suggestion. Imagine the uproar!
 
It's horrible! I can't sleep if my courier of nuclear material isn't drunk with a hand on the emergency brake.
 
Thanks...yeah, I don't believe for one moment that that the skills learned on even a large car transfer to trucks, vans, SUVs, etc. I don't know about Australia, but here in the States your basic Driver's License entitles you to drive vehicles up to twenty-five thousand pounds in gross vehicle weight! This is bad enough by itself, but when you factor in just how easy it is to get this license (I got mine with no formal training) and you have a serious debacle-in-waiting.
 
Wow - I can only go to 4.5 tonnes (about 10,000 pounds), which gets me into decent sized tractors and implements (which was handy since I used to work for an agricultural/industrial equipmetn manufacturer) and light trucks, but nothing I can wipe out houses with.

25,000 - that's ridiculous. I couldn't imagine my partner driving a ten tonne truck (oh wait, I can.....and it's hilarious!).
 
Originally posted by vat_man
I wonder what the stat would be if you took out the Explorer/Firestone debacle?

I don't think it would be significantly different. Granted, Explorers have been the #1 SUV for many years, but I've seen way too many up-rooted Suburbans and 4Runners to think Ford is an isolated incident.
 
Originally posted by Hooligan
I don't think it would be significantly different. Granted, Explorers have been the #1 SUV for many years, but I've seen way too many up-rooted Suburbans and 4Runners to think Ford is an isolated incident.

I was being a bit facetious - but it was a LOT of people, wasn't it? Like about 300 or so?

I'd pay money to see a Suburban roll over.

Nice signature - my favourite saying at work, that one (well, apart from 'what the hell were you thinking!', but that's more a yelling).
 
hehe...a little OT, but I'd heard that often the least competent people are also the least aware of their incompetence.

We were discussing this at work, and one fella asks,"So how do you know if you're incompetent?"

I replied,"I think you can tell by how often people scream 'What the hell is wrong with you?!' :D
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie


I hate being told to drive safely or carefully. I'm like "OK, since you asked, I'll stop trying to have a shunt. Muppet".

I always want to say to these "Public Service" adverts "Educate me, don't patronise me. Or blame me."

Muppet?
 
On all the SUVs, etc. I live in a major "snow belt" region below the Great Lakes. Basically, artic winds come blowing down over Canada, hit the Lakes and churn up major storms, then dump on us.

So, most people here seem to think they NEED SUVs. But they never learn to drive them. In nice conditions I've seen people try to corner the things as if they were sports cars and be rudely surprised at their oversight.

And in winter, well. They seem to think they're invincible to all the snow and ice and, again, become pretty rudely slapped around by reality.

Meanwhile, I've been chugging around quite well in all this "4WD weather" using basic cars. Although I've had some scares, especially with that big ex-police RWD Plymouth Grand Fury 440 that served as my first car--ever seen the Blues Brothers?)

I also get particularly annoyed when one of these things pulls right up on my bumper at a stoplight on top of a steep hill. (But drivers seeming to forget not everyone drives automatics is a completely different subject; that does seem chronic to SUVs though).
 
As a fellow three pedal driver I know what you mean - thankfully the big blue super Sube has the hill-holder feature so it's pretty easy to avoid roll-back.

Look at it this way - these people are obviously not co-ordinated enough to operate a pedals that has more controls than they have feet...
 
Hill Holder is useful, isn't it? :D

I've actually gotten pretty good at sliding from the brake pedal to the accelerator quickly. I'll also partially engage the clutch as I release the brake. That way, I have a much smaller chance of rolling into the person sitting six inches behind me on a hill. :irked: :P
 
Originally posted by risingson77
Hill Holder is useful, isn't it? :D

I've actually gotten pretty good at sliding from the brake pedal to the accelerator quickly. I'll also partially engage the clutch as I release the brake. That way, I have a much smaller chance of rolling into the person sitting six inches behind me on a hill. :irked: :P

Especially after the Vectra we had, which had the world's stiffest handbrake!!
 
Muppet - I'll have to remember that one (:

Hill Holder? That sounds nice ... I'm in a `93 Accord so the good ole hand break trick is working quite nicely for me. I was stopped at a hill the other day, looked in my rearview and all I saw was asphalt. Somehow I managed to get going with practically no rollback on the first try. But dodging the slew of SUVs roaring down the road I was joining was a bit of an obstical.

I have a strong opinion that people are very self-centered. It becomes very evident when they're driving. They seem to forget that anyone else is on the road, and that they all have just as much right to be there. I've listened to people say that they bought giant SUVs because they feel safer while driving them. They don't have to worry about the things they run over tearing up their car ... WHAT THE HELL!?!

~LoudMusic
 
Once you commit yourself to one simple truth, life will be more tolerable.

Truth: "People are stupid."

In 2016 part of my presidential campaign will be the push for a critical new law. The outlawing of stupidity. I believe outlawing stupidity with harsh punishment for the offending individuals will greatly increase the quality of life in the United States of America.

See you at the polls in 2016! (:

~LoudMusic
 
A hill holder? Cool. Does it just lock up the wheels from rolling backwards? A lever or a button?

And Loud. Ya' got my vote.
 
Originally stated by my friend Nexus

And I add to this wisdom a bit insight. There is no such thing as good and evil - only varying degrees of stupidity.

I believe he will be a member of my cabinate (:

~LoudMusic
 
Originally posted by Sertsa
A hill holder? Cool. Does it just lock up the wheels from rolling backwards? A lever or a button

No - nothing so obtrusive. It's manual transmission only.

To activate it, when you come to a stop, hold the car on the brake and depress the clutch. You should then be able to release the brake (keeping the clutch pressed) and the car won't roll back.

I can't remember how it works - I know there's a device that detects when the car is pointed up hill, and from there I think there's some mechanical device that comes into play.

It's cured me of my old bad habit of riding the clutch.
 
Originally posted by vat_man
It's cured me of my old bad habit of riding the clutch.

Bah! Riding the clutch works just fine... :D

for about thirty thousand miles...

For LoudMusic: "If you want to know how bad it is, think of how stupid the average person is. Then, realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." -George Carlin
 
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