My New Computer

[Ev0]

In a bit over a month, I'm finally going to be leaving Toronto to attend university in Ottawa, and I'm going to need a new computer. So, I'm going to be going the build it yourself route, and here is my preliminary system. Note that it's going to be designed around gaming, with music, movies, and possibly TV in mind. So, without further ado...

Case:Antec Super Lanboy (I have found a good deal on a Lian Li case at a store near me, so I might opt for that case instead if it really is a good deal)
PSU: 460W (Haven't decided on brand yet, likely going to be Antec or Enermax)
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Retail
Motherboard: Asus A8N-SLI
Memory: Corsair Value Select PC3200 512MB x2
Hard Drive: Maxtor DiamondMax 10 SATA/150 300GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache
Video Card: Leadtek 6600GT 128MB PCI-E
Sound Card: Creative Audigy 2 ZS
DVD Burner: BenQ DW1620 DVD RW
Floppy Drive: Generic Floppy Drive (Just need it incase I need the boot disc)
Printer : Color Inkjet, I really don't care about this, just need it to print text reports
Speakers: 2.1 Speaker System (I haven't decided on a brand yet; I won't be spending too much on this though since I already have Bose Triport headphones for serious listening needs)
Keyboard: Microsoft Internet Keyboard
Mouse: Logitech Optical Mouse

I might also get a TV Tuner card.

I'm wondering what you guys might think about this setup? Is it a good mid range gaming PC? I might also drop down to a 250GB hard drive if I need to pinch some pennies.

Also, is it worth $110 (Canadian Dollars) for the Audigy 2 ZS, or would I be better off saving my money and using onboard sound?

I'm also considering upgrading with an extra 6600GT in a year or so once prices drop down enough, so will a 460W PSU be enough incase I do that upgrade?

 

[Solid Fro]

If you are going to have a 2.1 sound system, save your money and skip the Audigy. There is no reason to use EAX or surround sound in games if you only have a 2.1 system.

I would skip the 6600GT. IMO, it would be a bottleneck in your system, besides, you seem to have money to burn. Why not spend a little more on the GPU and save some on other components (like the sound card)?

 

[Shannon]

Try and get the Athlon 64 'Venice' core if you can. They perform slightly better than the original Winchesters (I think that's the name of them?) and run cooler.

I'd also recommend the LG Super-Multi over any other DVD writer. I purchased one not long back and I can't fault it. I also read a review comparing a whole bunch of DVD writers (including the Benq DW160 and the LG Super-Multi) and the LG not only burns more types of DVD mediums, it also burns them slightly faster. Not to mention its probably the cheapest writer on the market too!

Like ViperZero said, the 6600GT isn't really worth it. Now that nVidia have released their new GeForce 7800 GTX card, we should start seeing a decrease in the price of the 6800 Ultra soon. It'd seem more logicial to hold off as long as possible on the GPU and try and snag the Ultra at a cheaper price. You could get an ATi All-In-Wonder card to have a video card and a TV tuner in one, but then you wouldn't be able to use SLI and run two GPUs.

If you are going to have a 2.1 sound system, save your money and skip the Audigy. There is no reason to use EAX or surround sound in games if you only have a 2.1 system.

I would skip the 6600GT. IMO, it would be a bottleneck in your system, besides, you seem to have money to burn. Why not spend a little more on the GPU and save some on other components (like the sound card)?

I disagree. Games sound pretty cool with EAX regardless of your speaker setup. Hell, I was running Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory on my crappy old 2.0 system and it sounded awesome with EAX enabled. Surround sound will obviously make EAX a thousand times better though.

Have you though about getting the Audigy 2 ZS Value? It has EAX 4.0 and supports up to 7.1 surround sound, and it's cheap cheap cheap!

 

[Jondot]

If you're getting a creative audigy sound card, get some creative speakers. I love my 5.1 creative speakers, and they give you instructions in the manual that "for optimum use, use a creative audigy sound card for your computer" , and they have the correct plugs to fit into a creative sound card.

I don't use mine for the pc, infact i use mine for tv and ps2. For the pc, i use my hifi (because i play music through itunes anyway). But, when i tried to connect mine to my tv, i discoved that i don't have any decoder to plug the speakers into, so, i had to improvise:






Yes, that is a headphone splitter, with one split pluggged into the front speakers' feed, and the other split plugged into another splitter, with one split plugged into the rear speakers' feed, and one the center speaker's feed. Ok, so it doesn't give me surround sound, well, not properly, but what it does give you is the sound all around you, which i quite like. Anyways, they only cost £50, i'm not going to go and buy a decoder for them now am i? Especially when my perfectly good headphone splitters only cost £2 each.



Geting back to the topic, get some creative speakers, or get a JVC micro hifi. Excellent sound quallity, and you can get the hifi for about £70 anyway.

 

[Flame-returns]

I notice that you are getting an SLI motherboard but only one graphics card, are you going to upgrade?

The 3500+ is an excellent processor but if you decide to get a Venice you might aswell spend a bit more and get a San Diego, not sure if the Venice supports this.

The PSU will give you some excess power, useful if you upgrade soon.

1 gig of ram, tick.
Insanely big hard disk, tick.
Good entry level graphics card (not a 5 series) , tick.
Unnecessary sound card, tick.
DVD burner, tick (get 2.)
Floppy drive, tick.
A subwoofer, tick.

That system passes my Powerful Gaming System Test, It has my approval...

Go forth and SuperFly.

 

[Flerbizky]

I'd rather drop a little in diskspace and get a 6800GT instead of the 6600.. Then when prices drop, get another 6800GT... 2 x 6800GT in SLI should provide more than enough power for a while...

 

[Ev0]

Keep in mind I need to have this comp up and running by the end of August, since I'm moving Labour Day weekend (first weekend of September), so I might not be able to hold off on the graphics card. And besides, the 6600GT is probably the best bang for your buck on the market right now; it has beat radeon X800s in some benchmarks (which no doubt favored nVidia cards anyways...), so I'm probably going to stick with it, unless the 6800GT drops in price soon enough. But there currently is a $200 price difference between the 6600GT and the 6800GT, so the price drop would have to be pretty insane. And, I'm probably not going to have too much time on my hands for gaming anyways; studying engineering is very time intensive.

As for SLI, I just want to keep that upgrade path open incase I need some extra fps in a year or so. Or, by then, depending on how much money I have, I might just do a total system overhaul (new processor, gfx card(s), extra ram, and PSU upgrade if necessary).

And, keep in mind that I am going to use good headphones for listening to music, and for playing Day Of Defeat/Counter Strike since I doubt my roomie will like to listen to loud explosions when he's doing something else (unless he also turns out to be a gamer). And, on my current PC, I use the onboard sound, and when I use my headphones on the PC, I do notice a reduction in sound quality from when I use them on my little stereo in my room. So, I'm definitley in favor of the soundcard for better quality, unless the difference in quality is marginal. I also just want some halfway decent speakers incase other people want to watch something on my PC, or if I don't want to wear the headphones (I can't hear anything around me when I have them on).

The Audigy Value sounds like it's a good idea; it's much cheaper than the 2ZS, and it will still give me an increase in sound quality. Saves me $60.

And I don't have too much money to burn. I am trying to keep my PC budget below $2000 Canadian, and I am pinching some pennies. I originally planned to have 2 DVD drives, but I dropped that idea (I can always get a second one for just $30 if I really miss the conveience of 2 drives), and I also planned to get a nice Logitech gaming mouse for $60, but instead I'm going to be getting a standard logitech optical mouse (saves me $45), and I might drop down to the 250GB version of the Diamondback to save me and additional $50.

As it stands right now, I'm going to be spending $1700 on this PC before taxes kick in, which will bring the grand total to just over $2000. Keep in mind also that I'm saving on not having to buy a monitor, since my friend just upgraded to an LCD monitor, so he gave me his old CRT to use.

And on top of all that, I'm also going to be getting a Palm Pilot. So this is all going to cost me a lot of money, well over $2000.

 

[Ev0]

Well, I've made some changes to my config.

I've decided to drop the 3500+ for a 3700+ San Diego processor. It's only $10 more, and the 1mb cache makes a big difference in gaming performance.

Also, SLI (at least for now) only offers marginal improvements in performance, so I've decided to save money and go down to a non-SLI motherboard. It should save me around $70.

Now, since I'm not worrying about SLI, I'm going to go with an ATI card. The Sapphire X800 looks like a really good deal, and it blows the 6600GT away in HL2 performance (I play lots of CS:S and I'm likely going to be hooked to DOD:S when it comes out, so HL2 performance is very important to me). Only problem is that the X800 is a bit hard to find, so I may have to order one from a store. But, the card is only $10 more than a Leadtek 6600GT, and it's 256mb.

And, before I was set on getting an Asus mobo. But, after reading reviews on newegg of non-SLI Asus boards, I saw some users were having some issues running ATI cards on the boards. So, I've instead decided to go for an MSI K8N Neo4-F. It has awsome reviews, and MSI has a good reputation for their mobos, so I think it should be a good choice.

 

[Shannon]

Well, I've made some changes to my config.

I've decided to drop the 3500+ for a 3700+ San Diego processor. It's only $10 more, and the 1mb cache makes a big difference in gaming performance.

Also, SLI (at least for now) only offers marginal improvements in performance, so I've decided to save money and go down to a non-SLI motherboard. It should save me around $70.

Now, since I'm not worrying about SLI, I'm going to go with an ATI card. The Sapphire X800 looks like a really good deal, and it blows the 6600GT away in HL2 performance (I play lots of CS:S and I'm likely going to be hooked to DOD:S when it comes out, so HL2 performance is very important to me). Only problem is that the X800 is a bit hard to find, so I may have to order one from a store. But, the card is only $10 more than a Leadtek 6600GT, and it's 256mb.

And, before I was set on getting an Asus mobo. But, after reading reviews on newegg of non-SLI Asus boards, I saw some users were having some issues running ATI cards on the boards. So, I've instead decided to go for an MSI K8N Neo4-F. It has awsome reviews, and MSI has a good reputation for their mobos, so I think it should be a good choice.

You do know when Vista ships it will come with WGF (DX10). While it isn't exactly cheap, the only WGF card on the market at the moment is the GeForce 7800 GTX. But then again, I've seen them for about $100 more than what my X850XT cost me. Mind you, Vista doesn't ship till Q4 2006, so the X800 still has some life in it.

And as for that MSI mobo, I have the K8N Neo4 Platinum. It's an awesome board with heaps of features. Highly recommended. 👍

 

[emad]

And, keep in mind that I am going to use good headphones for listening to music, and for playing Day Of Defeat/Counter Strike since I doubt my roomie will like to listen to loud explosions when he's doing something else (unless he also turns out to be a gamer). And, on my current PC, I use the onboard sound, and when I use my headphones on the PC, I do notice a reduction in sound quality from when I use them on my little stereo in my room. So, I'm definitley in favor of the soundcard for better quality, unless the difference in quality is marginal. I also just want some halfway decent speakers incase other people want to watch something on my PC, or if I don't want to wear the headphones (I can't hear anything around me when I have them on).

The Audigy Value sounds like it's a good idea; it's much cheaper than the 2ZS, and it will still give me an increase in sound quality. Saves me $60.

the newer onboard soundcards are finally up to par with creative's entry level cards. Just an example, my MSI k8n Neo4 Platinum has full 7.1 surround support, coax out, as well as optical output. In terms of sound quality, I have no complaints yet. I'm about to get some really high end speakers soon so that'll be the deciding factor.

And I don't have too much money to burn. I am trying to keep my PC budget below $2000 Canadian, and I am pinching some pennies. I originally planned to have 2 DVD drives, but I dropped that idea (I can always get a second one for just $30 if I really miss the conveience of 2 drives), and I also planned to get a nice Logitech gaming mouse for $60, but instead I'm going to be getting a standard logitech optical mouse (saves me $45), and I might drop down to the 250GB version of the Diamondback to save me and additional $50.

Why not go for a pair of 200gb drives? Personally, I use a pair of 200gb seagate 7200.8 drives on my new machine. I installed a pair of Maxtor Diamondbacks on my bro's graphic workstation, but he needed to squeeze every drop of performance out of the $2000 maximum.


You can also save yourself $50-100 on the case/psu by using an Antec Sonata II. The power supply is a 450w Antec and the case itself has AWESOME ventilation and it makes almost no noise. The case is also quite attractive even though the pictures don't look too good. Piano black, shiny, and nothing tacky on it anywhere. Definately worth the $150 👍

If you want some ideas on what I did for mine and for my bro's machine, I have specs here https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=68346. My brother's machine might be of interest to you specifically since it was designed specifically with low cost and maximum performance in mind. I had the whole thing built for $1900 after GST/PST. Drop a hard drive and you'll have enough extra cash to upgrade to the Radeon X800XL. Drop the dual core cpu in favour of the 3700+ and you'll save an additional $300 on the cost of the machine.

And on top of all that, I'm also going to be getting a Palm Pilot. So this is all going to cost me a lot of money, well over $2000.

I have a Palm Zire 1 that I really never use. It's simple, black and white and pretty minimal but it gets the job done. I found mine at a computer show for $40. I stopped using it because my cell phone has all the datebook features that I originally used the Palm for. If you want mine, I can hook you up - just sed a pm.

Anyways, where are you getting your parts prices from? $1900 canadian seems a tad high considering what you're getting...

 

[emad]

Now, since I'm not worrying about SLI, I'm going to go with an ATI card. The Sapphire X800 looks like a really good deal, and it blows the 6600GT away in HL2 performance (I play lots of CS:S and I'm likely going to be hooked to DOD:S when it comes out, so HL2 performance is very important to me). Only problem is that the X800 is a bit hard to find, so I may have to order one from a store. But, the card is only $10 more than a Leadtek 6600GT, and it's 256mb.

And, before I was set on getting an Asus mobo. But, after reading reviews on newegg of non-SLI Asus boards, I saw some users were having some issues running ATI cards on the boards. So, I've instead decided to go for an MSI K8N Neo4-F. It has awsome reviews, and MSI has a good reputation for their mobos, so I think it should be a good choice.

1) Make absolutely certain that the video card is an X800XL and not a base model X800. An Asus X800XL is around $379 but it's worth the slight increase in price.
2) Make sure you get the Neo4 Platinum motherboard if only for all the little things it includes.

 

[Ev0]

Well firstly, after 15% tax, my current config comes out to $1750, so that's $150 less than the $1900 you quoted.

Secondly, a single 250GB drive should be more than enough for my needs for at least the next year. Most residences don't allow use of excessive bandwidth, so it looks like I'll have to hold off on bit torrent for a while. But, if I need the extra capacity later, I can always get a second 250gb drive in the future, when it will be cheaper.

Also, I'm set on getting the current case/psu combo. I chose the lanboy because of it's small size and weight, which will come in handy in a small dorm room, and that will also make transporting the case to lan parties very easy (especially with the carrying strap included). And, the thermaltake is probably the best PSU for it's price and power output. It's got nothing but positive reviews on newegg.

And what's the difference between the plain Neo4 and the Platinum? I checked MSI's site and compared the two boards, and the only difference I noticed was that the platinum had support for firewire, which I don't see myself needing. So far, it doesn't look like it's worth paying extra money for the Platinum.

As for the X800XL, I'll have to check some prices on it. Currently, I've found $260 for a Sapphire X800, which is a great price given that it's only $10 more than the Leadtek 6600GT. But, I still might go for the X800XL, despite the higher price.

*EDIT* Acutally, after checking benchmarks on Tom's Hardware, the XL makes much more sense. It was getting 20 extra fps vs. a plain X800 on some tests. I'll spend a bit more, but I'll wind up with much better performance with the XL.

 

[Shannon]

And what's the difference between the plain Neo4 and the Platinum? I checked MSI's site and compared the two boards, and the only difference I noticed was that the platinum had support for firewire, which I don't see myself needing. So far, it doesn't look like it's worth paying extra money for the Platinum.

Actually, the Neo4-FI does have fiewire. According to MSI, it comes with one IEEE 1394 (firewire) port at the back.

The only real difference I can see is support for SATA II drives. The Neo4-FI only supports regular SATA, whereas the Platinum has 4 specific ports just for SATA II (along with another 4 for regular SATA drives). It also allows you to RAID up those SATA II drives, although, due to the expense of the damn things I don't think you'll be able to afford to do that.

Oh, and the Platinum has dual Gigabit LAN jacks at the back, instead of just one like Neo4-FI!

 

[Ev0]

So the differences are very minimal, although a second ethernet port would be convenient for my PS2's network adapter, but I've got a spare network card, so that really doesn't matter to me anyways.

 

[emad]

One little thing I just realized. I understand that you'll be living in a dorm. Most dorms typically don't have much space for a large desk. Much less a desk large enough for a CRT while still allowing for space to spread out and write stuff in your notebook. You *might* want to consider going LCD as a future investment for the sake of convenience. I say this only because my 17 inch monitor would take a bit over half my deskspace and it would have been impossible to place my laptop on my desk at the same time. Having an LCD gives me just enough room to have my laptop on my desk as well as to crack open a notebook or two.

The Hyundai L90D+ is a 19 inch, 8ms screen and ran me $450. I have experienced zero ghosting even in games that go over 100fps. I have also had a pretty good time running photoshop on here since the colors are reasonably close to CRT.

 

[Flame-returns]

You do know when Vista ships it will come with WGF (DX10). While it isn't exactly cheap, the only WGF card on the market at the moment is the GeForce 7800 GTX. But then again, I've seen them for about $100 more than what my X850XT cost me. Mind you, Vista doesn't ship till Q4 2006, so the X800 still has some life in it.

But by the looks of things future GeForce gards wont have Direct X 10 compatibility. So my next graphics card(s) will have to be ATIs, hope crossfire comes out soon

 

[emad]

But by the looks of things future GeForce gards wont have Direct X 10 compatibility. So my next graphics card(s) will have to be ATIs, hope crossfire comes out soon

If Nvidia wants to compete, they WILL be DirectX 10 compatible no questions asked. Nvidia is already the first of the two video card manufacturers to have a market ready DX10 card. They won't back down now unless somehow they go bankrupt.

 

[Flame-returns]

I think Microsoft kicked them out of the tent for modifying Direct X 9 without m$'s permission.

 

[emad]

I think Microsoft kicked them out of the tent for modifying Direct X 9 without m$'s permission.

Nah, that would be a crock of bs I think. I also would have heard about it as soon as official word spread. The cards themselves take orders from direct x commands. Modifying DX would defeat the purpose of it being there.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

So the differences are very minimal, although a second ethernet port would be convenient for my PS2's network adapter, but I've got a spare network card, so that really doesn't matter to me anyways.

I would get the motherboard just for SATA II. From where I looked, SATA II drives cost about $10 more than regular SATA.

 

[Flame-returns]

Nah, that would be a crock of bs I think. I also would have heard about it as soon as official word spread. The cards themselves take orders from direct x commands. Modifying DX would defeat the purpose of it being there.

Thanks emad, thats put my mind at ease.

 

[Flame-returns]

I'm looking at building a pc for a friend, looking around for a graphics card I stumbled upon an X850 pro for the same price as an x800xl here does anyone have any idea how this card performs, whats the catch?

 

[emad]

The x850 Pro has 12 pipelines while the X800XL has 16. On the other hand, the X850 has a 507mhz chip while the X800XL has a 400mhz. You can grab a very detailed list of benchmarks of almost every current PCI-E video card here:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050524/index.html

From what I can tell, under high stress situations (ie, high resolution and high AA/AF), the extra pipelines are more beneficial than the extra mhz . Check the benchmarks for yourself and come to your own conclusion.

Personally, I'd probably go for the XL because it performs just slightly better and the price tag is almost definately going to be lower.

 

[Ev0]

I would get the motherboard just for SATA II. From where I looked, SATA II drives cost about $10 more than regular SATA.

Are most hard drives going to be SATA II in the near future? I talked to a guy today who has a SATAII drive, and he says his performance gains are minimal, so I'm only really concerned with compatibility issues when I decide to upgrade.

 

[emad]

Are most hard drives going to be SATA II in the near future? I talked to a guy today who has a SATAII drive, and he says his performance gains are minimal, so I'm only really concerned with compatibility issues when I decide to upgrade.

It'll become more common for sure, but I doubt the performance will improve much. As it is, IDE drives barely even push the limits of the bandwidth they have available and only the WD Raptors come close to pushing any limits on SATA. The hard drive industry has been more focused on maximum capacity lately than they have been on max speed. I doubt you have much to worry about. Worst case, you can get a PCI based SATAII controller if you desparately need it 3 years down the road.

 

[Ev0]

Well, I went shopping today, and I got all of the components, except for the CPU and mobo since they were out of stock at the store, but they will be in by tomorrow morning. Also, I found a sale at future shop, and I got a Logitech MX510 mouse for $30 (as opposed to the regular price of $60). And the mouse kicks ass, I tried it out on Day Of Defeat on my old comp, and I definitley noticed a big difference in precision when using the rifles.

So, I could possibly have my new comp up and running by tomorrow! Unless of course there are hardware, software, or installation issues...

 

[///M-Spec]

Hey Ev0, we ended up putting together very similar machines.

MB|MSI NF4 K8N Neo4-F - Retail

Asus|EAX800XL/2DTV/256M - Retail

CPU AMD 64 |3000+ ATHLON 64 939P RT - Retail

DDR Corsair 512MB X2 KIT|VS1GBKIT400 - Retail

HD 80 GB|SEAGAT ST380817AS 8mb % - OEM

CASE ANTEC|SLK3800B BK 400W RET - Retail

Damage was just north of $800.00 after 2 day shipping. DVD/CD to come from my old box. I can't wait to get this puppy together.


M

 

[emad]

CASE ANTEC|SLK3800B BK 400W RET - Retail

Excellent case man. If it's the Sonata II, be sure to make use of the CPU duct they include and if you get a chance, swap out your northbridge fan for something passive. You will barely be able to hear the machine in your room AND it'll be running ice cold (dual core Athlon64 4200+ running at a sweet 34 celcius on idle)

 

[Ev0]

Not a bad system, although the processor could end up becoming a bottleneck. But, you did get Socket 939, so upgrading the processor in a year or two shouldn't be an issue.

 

[emad]

If the 3000+ is a venice core model, it's supposed to be rediculously overclockable depending on which lot you get. My friend gave it a 48% speed hike on air cooling - that's *almost* up to par with the FX model processors