NASCAR Road Racing

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JohnBM01

JohnBM01

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Leave the ovals for a special challenge. If your oval racer can dominate the Bristols and Talladegas of America, get ready for a special challenge. ROAD RACING!!! No, this topic has nothing to do with the PC game of the same name, instead, this is a topic I decided to launch as NASCAR hits Sears Point this weekend. I want this to be a NASCAR road racing discussion afterwards.

In terms of ovals, the most popular oval I've heard about was North Wilkesbarrow. In terms of road courses, the most popular road course I've heard about was Riverside. And on ESPN Classic, I once seen a race from... I want to say 1989. The reason why I like watching NASCAR road race is because I enjoy watching people race outside of their element. And this weekend at Sears Point, it will be 43 stock car teams racing on the (I called it the) wussy configuration of Sears Point. This configuration could be played in "Pro Race Driver" in the Americas Cup and the AAS. The real configuration is the one the ALMS uses that features the drag strip and that tight hairpin.

So folks, let's talk about the oval racers turning left AND right. You can discuss NASCAR drivers in road racing, the road racing this year in America's premier "just-turn-left" series. But to me, you know who my money is on. Jeff Gordon. He had five consecutive road course wins. So if you didn't know NASCAR doesn't do any road courses, just watch Nextel Cup this weekend. Reply away.
 
Yep I knew J Gordon was gonna get it, since I'm a long time J gordon fan who else should I be cheering for?,but really there are a few good road racers left in Nextel Cup, like robbie gordon although he had a horrible race today, rusty wallace, and more others. I think Nascar should have more than just 2 road courses. Road courses show that the drivers can also turn right and use heel and toe to control the car. There are many road courses in america for them to go on, and they do doubles on certain tracks like daytona and bristol. By eliminating the double courses they can fit more road courses. What do you guys think about this opinion? 👍 👎
 
One thing I used to love about CART was the mix of road, street, and oval racing. It's a shame that NASCAR couldn't involve more road courses, instead of hitting the same track twice a year. However, as JohnBM01 stated, they are totally racing outside of their element. Otherwise, road racers from other series wouldn't be assigned to certain cars. Past years have included Boris Said, Tom Kendall, etc. etc. etc. Jeff Gordon just seems to be an exception to the rule. I just wish there was some stiffer competition for him from the rest of the NNC racers.

Excellent topic..... Much respect to JohnBM01 for raising it and other great topics.
 
Oh, my pleasure, Cornjedi. And yes, congratulations to Jeff Gordon on yet another road course win. Winning from the pole. And after hearing that NASCAR may hit Mexico, it may expand their series a little more.

Back around the middle 1990s, NASCAR had a Japanese tour. I think they raced Motegi and Suzuka. I've never doubted stock car abilities much. Just that... I have my doubts at times. And I think Jeff Gordon needs to try out an endurance race, or at least an American Le Mans event. Here's the deal. If Earnhardt Jr. is racing a Corvette next month, I say that Gordon gets in at least P2. He's such a great driver on road courses. Only thing is, he's accustomed to ovals. And I truly respect his talent.

NASCAR Road Racing. Either talk about the Sears Point race, the Watkins Glen event later this year, or your thoughts about NASCAR in road racing. I'd like to learn more about Riverside, personally.
 
But Kart, do you think that the tradition of racing so-called "cookie-cutter" ovals kind of gets old and needs a change? I mean, "stock cars weren't meant to turn left and right" as someone said once. But the reason why I get interested in NASCAR road racing is because I admire the courage of NASCAR racers to put their cars and skills to the test. I mean, you know what you're getting when you road race. Since you are a kart racer, Kart, you probably know what you're getting racing a track with more than 3 or 4 turns. I mean, look at Mosport that CASCAR (not affiliated with NASCAR, I think) races. I respect CASCAR a little more because they race not one, but three road races. I think they run Mosport, Toronto (or Trois-Riveres perhaps?), and Vancouver. These racers take to the streets. I think 43 stock car teams would make a nice challenge at beautiful Long Beach, but as Dave Despain of WindTunnel said once, "street courses aren't racing." And to me, it's about RACING, not trading paint at 175 mph.

Before I close this reply, let me leave you with this quote someone on WindTunnel made either last year or this year. You be the judge as to what is wrong with this picture:

(interpreted) "How to make sportscar racing more appealing? Put them on an oval."

Farewell. (^_^)
 
That's what I mean.Yes it dose take some talent to do a oval as I have raced on them my self,but,I feel it takes more talent to do a road course becuase of the left and right turns.I also give praise to the NASCAR drivers that can do both.As to the cars not made to turn right,the teams have about 15 cars per driver just sitting in the shop.All they would have to do is turn about a 1/3 into roadcourse cars and presto.I do enjoy NASCAR racesbut will be the first to admit that they can get boring.CASCAR has the right idea.The super series (Canadian championship) hold 3 roadraces.CASCAR west has about 2 more for a total of 5 out of 12 races per year. Not a bad average.And yes CASCAR is not with NASCAR but is eaqual to the NASCAR north series.Lw bucks to run but a great show.


Putting roadracers on a oval just not right.The closes they get is the 24 hrs of Daytona and that is close enough for me.
 
I'm thinking Sonoma is a bit much for the 3400 lbs stocks. I like to watch them at the Glen though, it's way more fitting for the cars and their agility (or lack there of), those tight turns at Sears Point/Infineon/whatever visibly make it difficult for the cars to get around.
The hairpin in particular is a mess, Tony Stewart will agree as he punted about 3 cars at that turn only. They don't even respect the rumble strip there, then again they can't, the cars need the absolute tightest apex there if they wan't to carry any kind of momentum to the finish line.
 
I know from playing three different NASCAR games that even though stock cars aren't Audi R8s or even touring cars, Sears Point is a great challenge. If you ask me, I'm curious as to how they would tackle Laguna Seca. But then, I don't think stock cars are as balanced as they need to be to tackle Laguna Seca, much less its corkscrew. Now you know Talladega is in Alabama, right? So what about they give Barber Motorsports Park a try? I think the ultimate road course that seems fitting is... far from another well-known NASCAR track. Ever heard of Sebring? I say that maybe (and call me crazy) that NASCAR put restrictor plates on the cars as they attack Sebring. NASCAR needs more special challenges. I mean, let's say that NASCAR has three non-points races on three different American ovals. And if stock cars have guts (you Australians... listen up), why not have them challenge Bathurst? Bathurst is a car breaker, so I can imagine Tony Stewart mowing down cones and cars into the barriers. Seems fitting for NASCAR to go Bathurst since stock car racers love to wreck. Well, get your asses to Bathurst and remind us how long we have to stay up so we can see the race here in the States.
 
I respect Watkins Glen, but I think it's getting dead here in America, just like the Rolex 24 at Daytona.
 
Laguna would be a great addition to the Nextel Cup, perhaps the weekend before or after Sears Point - how about the airport circuit in San Diego they use in the Historic Trans-Am series as well - i'm sure those overworked crews would appriciate the break?

There is no reason why a Nascar can't be tuned to run well on a 'road course' - they are, after all, a tube framed chassis with light-weight bodies on top - much like the sports prototypes from the 60's and 70's (Porsche 917, GT40 etc)
 
Well as I heard on "Trackside" once, road courses are run more in tradition, not because they want to. CART road raced along with some ovals, so I can't see why NASCAR can't do the same. NASCAR needs to decide whether these are race cars or just oval racers.
 
My opinion on the Nextel Cup cars racing at road courses is this: The series can do without going to the "cookie cutters" as much. As long as the racing is competitive, let them race at more than 2 road courses. The road courses I would like to see on the circuit: The full length layouts of Sears Point and Watkins Glen, Laguna Seca, the F1 layout of Suzuka, and Bathurst. Maybe if Nascar did a little more road racing, it would gain some respect as a motorsport.
 
Funny you mention this because I just seen a rerun of WindTunnel. Included, there may be plans for Busch and Nextel Cup to race at Road America (Busch first). As a road racing fan, some may disagree with me, but here's what I think about this.

Believe it or not, I think Road America is best suited to "stock" cars. The straights are long, and the corners are technical. Road America is a wonderful haven for sportscar racing, but I think this track is a very nice facility for fast cars that can still have an edge in handling. I'll of course root on Jeff Gordon because he's my man when it comes to road racing, if not NASCAR in general.

So what do you think about "stock" cars at Road America?
 
John - Have you ever played any of the Papyrus NASCAR games? - i ask this because you may or may not know that you can add new tracks to the game (that people have made themselves or adapted from other racing games) and i'm sure if you look on many of the NASCAR game sites i'm sure you could download Road America and try it for yourself.
 
Road courses are always better than oval courses. There's more to watch and see.

But I honestly had no idea that Nascar did anything more than ovals. So I looked through their track list and found Infineon and Watkins Glen International - both look to be pretty challenging courses! I have new respect for Nascar ... but it's not much more than before.
 
For Watkins Glen they only run the short course so frankly the course is not all that challenging. Infineon has had the challenge removed as Nascrap deemed the original course just too tough and made it much easier then it was. The circuit everyone else uses is still there so we get to see it during ALMS weekends.
 
The Aussie NASCARs have raced at Bathurst as support races in the past. 1998 was the only time it was a round of the championship. The fastest qualifier in 1998 was Russell Ingall with a time of 2.20.7550 with an average speed of 159 kph in a Monte Carlo which was four seconds faster than the second fastest qualifier.
The fastest lap at Bathurst by a NASCAR was set by Jim Richards in a Lumina in 1996. The lap time was 2.18.1027
Just for comparison, there were two 1000km races for touring cars at Bathurst in 1998. One was for Super Tourers where the fastest qualifier was the Greg Murphy/Russell Ingall Vectra with a time of 2.16.4086 at 164 kph. The other race was the 'normal' race for the V8 Supercars. The fastest qualifier for this race was Glenn Seton with a time of 2.11.4634 at 170kph.
I think 2min20 is a good time for a NASCAR at Bathurst considering the extra weight they carry, their smaller brakes and smaller aero package. 1998 was the last time the NASCARS went to Bathurst but it would be interesting to see how much quicker they would be going six years down the track. A V8 Supercar is four to five seconds a lap quicker than they were six years ago and most of their speed comes from tweaks in the aerodynamic package and suspension setup.
I have been searching for a photo of a NASCAR at Bathurst but can't find one. Will post one if I do.

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/1589/
"Rusty (Wallace) and Mark (Martin) were standing next to me on pit road. The rain was light, but coming down steady. Everyone was just hanging around, waiting to see who might go out," remembers Holmer. "There was this fella driving for Dick Mitchley?s team over there, an Australian named Jim Richards. He had won a few Bathurst 1000s, the big Australian sedan endurance road race held on a mountainous circuit. He was known as the ?Rain Man.?

"For him, this was natural. He jumps in, roars down the pit lane and starts putting in times right away. The pit straight there is a bit like the Glen?s--it rolls down into a fast turn. Richards comes blasting down the straight the first time with the spray boiling out, and Rusty and Mark just look at each other as if to say, ?who is this guy?? The next time around and they?re looking to see his times, and the times are beginning to look quick. He flashes past a third time and that?s it, they?re all running for their cars. It?s as if a gauntlet had been thrown down."
Click to expand...
 
Schrodes
The Aussie NASCARs have raced at Bathurst as support races in the past. 1998 was the only time it was a round of the championship. The fastest qualifier in 1998 was Russell Ingall with a time of 2.20.7550 with an average speed of 159 kph in a Monte Carlo which was four seconds faster than the second fastest qualifier.
The fastest lap at Bathurst by a NASCAR was set by Jim Richards in a Lumina in 1996. The lap time was 2.18.1027
Just for comparison, there were two 1000km races for touring cars at Bathurst in 1998. One was for Super Tourers where the fastest qualifier was the Greg Murphy/Russell Ingall Vectra with a time of 2.16.4086 at 164 kph. The other race was the 'normal' race for the V8 Supercars. The fastest qualifier for this race was Glenn Seton with a time of 2.11.4634 at 170kph.
I think 2min20 is a good time for a NASCAR at Bathurst considering the extra weight they carry, their smaller brakes and smaller aero package. 1998 was the last time the NASCARS went to Bathurst but it would be interesting to see how much quicker they would be going six years down the track. A V8 Supercar is four to five seconds a lap quicker than they were six years ago and most of their speed comes from tweaks in the aerodynamic package and suspension setup.
I have been searching for a photo of a NASCAR at Bathurst but can't find one. Will post one if I do.

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/1589/
Click to expand...

I thought NASCar stood for North American Sports Car. Does it mean something different in Australia?
 
The Cracker, I have NASCAR Racing classic, 2, and 1999 Edition. And I also had a demo of Indy Car Racing 2. The demo included Michigan's oval and Laguna Seca. With some specialized utility, I was able to convert Laguna Seca from ICR2 to NR classic. So the first thing I did was race Laguna Seca with the (then) Winston Cup cars. These cars don't handle like a BMW V12 LMR or a Toyota GT-One (of course, they weren't around then), but the cars handled good enough. The only problem I had with the game on my old computer was that at the Laguna Seca Corkscrew, the game would crash while going down hill. Other than that, I actually did pretty better with these cars than with the GT machinery. My one concern about NASCAR road racing at Laguna Seca is about the center of gravity of the cars. I don't know if the cars will be built to especially handle the Corkscrew.

I think that if you handle ovals for a living, try a road course. Don't be a Jimmy Spencer on them. NASCAR racer Jimmy Spencer hates racing road courses. I don't know if we're supposed to believe these "stock" cars are supposed to be pure racing machines, at least in NASCAR's view. But if you run the high banks with Nextel Cup or whatever, you have a race car. And race cars should be able to take on almost any circuit from Martinsville to Nurburgring Nordschleife. And this is granted that it can handle these challenges (you wouldn't want to take a drag race car to Magny-Cours, or a sprint car to Tsukuba). But if I think if you want to make NASCAR race on competitive road courses that still have elements of speed, think about this course: Brands Hatch (the Indy course). More on that in a future post.

By the way, I think Australia had (or probably still has) AUSCAR.
 
Australia doesn't have much in the way of NASCAR or AUSCAR anymore. They still have a few ride days but they aren't racing championships. AUSCAR race around the ovals in the opposite direction to the NASCARs when they race at Calder Park, which is the only Super Speedway in Australia.
 
Schrodes
The Aussie NASCARs have raced at Bathurst as support races in the past. 1998 was the only time it was a round of the championship. The fastest qualifier in 1998 was Russell Ingall with a time of 2.20.7550 with an average speed of 159 kph in a Monte Carlo which was four seconds faster than the second fastest qualifier.
The fastest lap at Bathurst by a NASCAR was set by Jim Richards in a Lumina in 1996. The lap time was 2.18.1027
Just for comparison, there were two 1000km races for touring cars at Bathurst in 1998. One was for Super Tourers where the fastest qualifier was the Greg Murphy/Russell Ingall Vectra with a time of 2.16.4086 at 164 kph. The other race was the 'normal' race for the V8 Supercars. The fastest qualifier for this race was Glenn Seton with a time of 2.11.4634 at 170kph.
I think 2min20 is a good time for a NASCAR at Bathurst considering the extra weight they carry, their smaller brakes and smaller aero package. 1998 was the last time the NASCARS went to Bathurst but it would be interesting to see how much quicker they would be going six years down the track. A V8 Supercar is four to five seconds a lap quicker than they were six years ago and most of their speed comes from tweaks in the aerodynamic package and suspension setup.
I have been searching for a photo of a NASCAR at Bathurst but can't find one. Will post one if I do.

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/1589/
Click to expand...

I remember them Nascars at bathurst, quite a sight to see. They also used to race at the Surfers Paradise course as a support for the Indy cars. You were always guarenteed action when they hit the circuit. I seem to recall a couple of huge accidents at surfers 1 and 2 chicanes.

Btw, is there anything Gentleman Jim Richards hasnt raced! Geez i didnt know that 👍
 
Personally, I'd rather see the V8 Supercars go at it at Bathurst than "stock" cars if you ask me. And if I wanted to do international travel, I'd like to visit Bathurst, especially if the Bathurst 1000 comes along.

With NASCAR wanting to take over CASCAR, a WindTunnel guest called the show talking about the CASCAR machines. He described them as your average late-model stock cars (believe it or not, my favorite "stock" cars. They are low and wide), but with bad shocks. Or for the road racing/sportscar fans, shock = damper. And if you ask me, CASCAR has more of a challenge than NASCAR. NASCAR races two road courses; CASCAR races 3 or 4. While the ovals emphasize high speed, it's best to challenge road courses. Look online for the "Stock Car Championship Series" to learn about their emphasis on road courses with "stock" cars. Then you can talk about it with us here.
 
What I liked about the NASCAR's at bathurst was that they looked like a big handful across the top of the mountain. :)
I Also quite like them mainly racing on ovals. Thats what they were designed to do obviously. Ive watched every race from May this year and for me they are a must see. Over here in Australia we get alot of circuit racing with the V8 Supercars. Its nice to see something different. Perhaps you need a nice touring car category over there in the states?
Oh and i hope Jimmy Johnson wins the championship, dont want a Ford to win, or Jeff Gordon, since he has a few championships already.
 
I think road racing in NASCAR would be alot more exciting than oval racing. Thered also be less crashes. Last NASCAR race I watched there was 2 different crashes inbetween the last 10 laps!
 
radicool02
I think road racing in NASCAR would be alot more exciting than oval racing. Thered also be less crashes. Last NASCAR race I watched there was 2 different crashes inbetween the last 10 laps!
Click to expand...

How could there possibly be fewer crashes on a non-oval? There are more opportunities for miss-direction.

I could see how it would spread them out more along the way, thus lowering the chances for a run-in. But you also get more lap traffic toward the end of the race.

What I would find more interesting than any of that would be for them to run multiple shorter races in a day and figure a way of running a point system. That way you don't end up with cars being minutes behind the leader. This could be done in any race car league. Instead of one race of 60+ laps, make it three races of 20 laps.
 
LoudMusic
How could there possibly be fewer crashes on a non-oval? There are more opportunities for miss-direction.
Click to expand...

I guess. Its just that everytime I watch a NASCAR racer there is always a big crash and when I watch V8 supercars there is mostly small crashes or no crashes. So I was just comparing it to V8 supercars and before I just forgot they are totally different cars. :dopey:
 

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