NASCAR Thread.

[toyota_gt1]

Wow, what a great finish. As YSSMAN said, Newman really deserved that win. If the Hendrick guys couldn't win, I wanted to see him do it. Welcome back Ryan.

 

[Jim Prower]

Hell, if DODGE can do what they did, they might advertise enough to save the company!

or not.

Yeah, I was rooting against that M&M's Toyota mostly...I wouldn't have minded Toyota winning if it was "Smoke," but if Kyle Busch was gonna drive like he was late to work, I wasn't going for it.

Now we need to see if we can get Nissan interested...Calsonic Maxima, anyone?

 

[YSSMAN]

Sorry, but I refuse to root for anyone in any Toyota. I was a HUGE Tony Stewart fan before he switched, but I just can't bring myself to come anywhere close to wanting him to win.

I'll keep rooting for the Hendrick (only Jr. and Mears), RCR, and Roush cars like I always do. Of course, JPM is still my dark-horse favorite this season...

 

[RACECAR]

Well, That was exciting. I really thought either one of the hendrick Chevys or JGR toyotas was gonna win it, but those dodges surprised me. Well done for ryan newman.

@ YSSMAN: How come you don't like the Toyotas? I don't quite get why people don't like them.

 

[JohnBM01]

Probably doesn't like Toyota because of trying to regain solidarity among American makes. Thinks this is a "us vs. them" deal in regards to America's Big Three vs. Toyota. I'll have a full slate of stuff to talk about once I get my post complete.


Thanks to Jim Prower for recapping my FACT OR FICTON statements. 👍

 

[Jim Prower]

'ey, no problem! Glad to!

 

[TS]

Joe Gibbs "Team TOM'S" (As I shall start calling them) put forth a good effort. Not sure I liked Kyle Busch's weaving game...I hate driving like that on the highway, and I was sure he was gonna trigger the big one coming across someone's nose. Speaking of Which...That never materialized. There was an accordion, but the wings seemed to keep the cars straight when someone got touched, not like those twitchy spoiler cars. It looked like the V8 Supercars at Bathurst on Conrod Straight. All the way 'round. So...

Kyle Busch is 22, 23 years old and has the mentality of 'checkers or wreckers'. He weaved around in the truck race Friday, and caused a big wreck, he did it in the Nationwide race Saturday, thankfully no wreck.

But the teamwork played a big role in who ran/finished well, all the Gibbs cars drafted together, the Penske cars obviously worked great together and the Hendrick cars to a lesser extent. I was rather surprised that there wasn't a big one considering that the cars stayed together for a good bit in the beginning of the race and towards the end of the race.

I'll happily admit that I wanted anyone to win except a Toyota, so the results pleased me greatly. Ryan Newman and Team Penske deserved the win, they were pretty consistant all day.

You should get used to the Toyota's being up front, as the year goes on, we'll only see more of it.

It wouldn't surprise me if all the JGR Toyota's made the chase and won 3 races apiece. Or for that matter any Toyota driver winning at least twice.

Hell, if DODGE can do what they did, they might advertise enough to save the company!

I think Newman will donate that $1 million bonus to the 'Save Chrysler from a Buyout Foundation'.

I'll keep rooting for the Hendrick (only Jr. and Mears), RCR, and Roush cars like I always do. Of course, JPM is still my dark-horse favorite this season...

Juan Pablo & Reed Sorenson will be 2 drivers to watch this year, JPM won a race last year (it's still a win even if he used fuel strategy) and ran up front for a little in the 500. Reed was probably the biggest surprise of speedweeks, finishing 5th in the Bud Shootout, 2nd in the Duels and 5th again in the 500.

 

[YSSMAN]

@ YSSMAN: How come you don't like the Toyotas? I don't quite get why people don't like them.

Like others have said, its that "Us vs Them" deal, so it kinda feels like they're invading "our turf." Its a silly way to feel, I know, but I just don't like having Toyota around that much. Especially when they throw money at their engineering problems and then buy-out a team with several of my favorite drivers on it...

For the rest of the season, it will be interesting to see how Toyota does. Their track record last year really doesn't shed much light on how they will perform at the different types of tracks, but I'm already thinking that they may have that style of work where they're good only on certain types of tracks.

Dunno. We'll see.

This will likely be the most-exciting season that we've had in a while...

 

[JohnBM01]

Debate time!



John's Debate! - Us vs. Them?
This was inspired by YSSMAN that I'd like to ask all of you NASCAR types. Do you think that this "us vs. them" mentality in regards to America's big three vs. Toyota is a matter of defending home turf against Toyotas? What do you think about NASCAR fans who have this sort of mentality in regards to Toyota? How would you counterattack to anyone who dislikes Toyotas in NASCAR?

 

[Jim Prower]

Debate time!



John's Debate! - Us vs. Them?
This was inspired by YSSMAN that I'd like to ask all of you NASCAR types. Do you think that this "us vs. them" mentality in regards to America's big three vs. Toyota is a matter of defending home turf against Toyotas? What do you think about NASCAR fans who have this sort of mentality in regards to Toyota? How would you counterattack to anyone who dislikes Toyotas in NASCAR?

Against Toyotas, I'd probably say yes, considering that make's incredibly lame image int his country as of late. I myself am split on the issue: I mean, I'd like Toyota's entry to open the door for other makes, especially lifelong rival Nissan: I don't think Honda would have much interest. I'm afraid Toyota's gonna end up dominating with good teams like Gibbs "TOM'S," and that would push makes OUT of the series.

Allow me to pose another question.

Given that Toyota is the most hated maker in the U.S. right now, would you feel the same way if this were Nissan? Honda? BMW? Volkswagen?

 

[TS]

Debate time!



John's Debate! - Us vs. Them?
This was inspired by YSSMAN that I'd like to ask all of you NASCAR types. Do you think that this "us vs. them" mentality in regards to America's big three vs. Toyota is a matter of defending home turf against Toyotas? What do you think about NASCAR fans who have this sort of mentality in regards to Toyota? How would you counterattack to anyone who dislikes Toyotas in NASCAR?

I think it's because most NASCAR purists are afraid that Toyota is gonna increase the amount that it takes to run competitive racing teams and will force small teams out of the sport. If it gets that bad, it may force NASCAR to franchise teams, which they've done to an extent with the whole top-35 in owner points are locked into races.

I counter-act those that don't like Toyota in general by telling them they make more cars here than the big 3 (Ford, Chevy & Dodge) do. They shut up rather quickly.

Against Toyotas, I'd probably say yes, considering that make's incredibly lame image int his country as of late. I myself am split on the issue: I mean, I'd like Toyota's entry to open the door for other makes, especially lifelong rival Nissan: I don't think Honda would have much interest. I'm afraid Toyota's gonna end up dominating with good teams like Gibbs "TOM'S," and that would push makes OUT of the series.

I don't think we'll see Honda in NASCAR, right now they're much too occupied by building cars, motorcycles, ATVs, generators, racing engines for the IRL, chassis & engines for the Acura ALMS teams, etc..

I wouldn't mind seeing Nissan enter into NASCAR, it's been a while since they've been in the motorsport spotlight, but the biggest question would be is if they could afford such a move.

Allow me to pose another question.

Given that Toyota is the most hated maker in the U.S. right now, would you feel the same way if this were Nissan? Honda? BMW? Volkswagen?

Probably not, Toyota as of late has been notorious for building what some haters call cars that are 'overpriced & underpowered'. If they are so 'overpriced & underpowered', how come they're selling like hot cakes at dealerships nationwide? How would they be able to field semi-competitive cars in F1 & winning cars in NASCAR if they weren't making so much money?

 

[dougiemeats]

Interesting topic for discussion, John. I do not watch NASCAR consistently enough to have a proper and valid argument for one side or the other. However, it is interesting to note the contrast between NASCAR and other series regarding the entry of a new manufacturer. For example, no one is throwing a fit regarding BMW's announcement of their return to the American Le Mans Series in 2009, or Force India's recent entry into the Formula 1 World Championship.

To the members across the Atlantic: Would this happen if, say, Toyota entered DTM? Come to think of it, aren't there talks of Lexus entering?

 

[RACECAR]

Debate time!



John's Debate! - Us vs. Them?
This was inspired by YSSMAN that I'd like to ask all of you NASCAR types. Do you think that this "us vs. them" mentality in regards to America's big three vs. Toyota is a matter of defending home turf against Toyotas? What do you think about NASCAR fans who have this sort of mentality in regards to Toyota? How would you counterattack to anyone who dislikes Toyotas in NASCAR?

I would think so. I feel they are overly patriotic with this mentality, same goes for the drivers as well. I would counterattack them by reminding them of MG's presence (bet alot of you don't remember that) and then tell them that They have as much a right to compete here as the others do. They didn't come to "Invade" us, they have come with the same goal as every manufacterer and driver in any series that did and does compete: To Win.

 

[toyota_gt1]

I can't remember what show I saw it on last night. But does anyone know why Jeff Burton was mad at teammate Clint Bowyer after the Daytona 500?

 

[TS]

I can't remember what show I saw it on last night. But does anyone know why Jeff Burton was mad at teammate Clint Bowyer after the Daytona 500?

I remember seeing it on NASCAR Victory Lane, Burton was supposedly mad at Bowyer for going to the inside, behind the 42 of Montoya instead of falling in behind Burton's car to push him to the lead.

 

[toyota_gt1]

Ok. I really don't blame Bowyer for doing that but then I do. I do because he obviously needed to help Jeff as much as he could. I don't because there was 10 laps to go in the 50th running of the Daytona 500. When it comes down to those last laps, they drive like they don't have any sense.

 

[thebtspecial]

Debate time!



John's Debate! - Us vs. Them?
This was inspired by YSSMAN that I'd like to ask all of you NASCAR types. Do you think that this "us vs. them" mentality in regards to America's big three vs. Toyota is a matter of defending home turf against Toyotas? What do you think about NASCAR fans who have this sort of mentality in regards to Toyota? How would you counterattack to anyone who dislikes Toyotas in NASCAR?

When it comes to Toyota in NASCAR, I don't mind that they're here racing, heck, I like that there's more competition. With that said, I've found myself cheering against Toyota most, if not all, the time. I basically pull for the American manufacturers to beat up on Toyota.

I think this mentality goes for any country that has a manufacturer in motorsports though. In Italy, aren't they just crazy about Ferrari in F1? What about the British and their Aston Martins at Le Mans? Do they not cheer for the "home car" to go beat the pants off of the Vettes and send those Yanks back with their tale's between their legs? (This year's gonna be different, those AM's are going down!)

Sure, there are definitely ignorant fans out there. What country doesn't have them? When it comes to myself, it's more of a support the home team outlook.

 

[YSSMAN]

I counter-act those that don't like Toyota in general by telling them they make more cars here than the big 3 (Ford, Chevy & Dodge) do. They shut up rather quickly.

Eh? Last I checked, its just the Camry, Matrix and the big trucks. General Motors still builds the majority of their vehicles in the United States, but the parts come from all over. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for Ford and Chrysler...

What I don't like about Toyota is that they're going to come in, think they own the place, complain when they get picked on, and overall make it a more expensive process for everyone else.

Yay!

I'm still not happy about them throwing money at Gibbs, and even worse, he buying into it...

 

[Sting]

they're going to come in, think they own the place,

Remind you of any other country on this planet?

Me, I'm not all that fussed with Toyota coming in, but the way Kyle Busch ran, its almost a big middle finger to all the american makes.

I hope Hornish Jr goes on to big things in NASCAR, he really impressed me at Daytona of the single seat converters... more than Montoya who still thinks punting people off is the way to go.

 

[01GTP]

I don't mind who makes the cars as long as the competition is good. Last year it was "Toyota, who cares, they don't compete well.", and this year its "Toyota, what do they think they're doing, winning already, it not fair.". I say "Boo hoo..!" to those fans. With the politics of NA$CAR, the top dogs (France's) have tough decisions to make, and they make them. Hats off to those people. Its a good thing Tony George (I think that is his name) is not running the NASCAR show, or they may not be any show. I really don't care what other fans think about Toyota. If they don't complain about Toyota they will find something else to complain about. Just enjoy the race. It easy for some of us. I don't mean to bash on the fans, but just enjoy the race.

As for Jeff Burton, after a restart like that, I would be mad at anything. And I'm a Jeff Burton fan. Before the restart I said to myself out loud, (to Burton as well) clean up your tires and don't screw up the restart. Well we know how it ended...Sadly..!

 

[JohnBM01]

The next stop on NASCAR's tour will be at California Superspeedway in Fontana, CA. You may respond to my debate question (Post #549), or you may chat about how you feel this new car will do around California. How do you all evaluate the CoT models at full song this past Sunday at Daytona?

 

[YSSMAN]

Personally speaking, I'm liking the new CoT competition. It all seems to be a bit more "fair" and a bit more "balanced" overall. Clearly though, Toyota with Gibbs and Chevrolet with Hendrick have the CoT platform sorted out. My guess is that they will consistently be the two teams to dominate most races, with some obvious exceptions, where we know the driver is more important than the car.

I'm actually very interested in what California will be like given its relative similarity to Michigan. Its an easy guess to put the Hendrick cars out front, and given the performance of the Gibbs cars last week, I don't think its much of a stretch out there either. One would hope that Penske can show up with his cars, and Roush too, but I think they may still have some work to do. Consistency, however, has been their thing, and I think that will come in handy this season. Clearly, it worked last Sunday.

Who am I banking to win?

Its always a safe bet on Jimmie Johnson, and I'm pretty sure Tony Stewart would be safe as well. I'll likely be running Matt Kenseth, Kurt Bush, Kasey Khane and JPM for my fantasy weekend. We'll see.

 

[toyota_gt1]

For the race at California, I believe we will see a good amount of engine troubles. With the long straights, 200+ mph going into the corners, and rpm's a lot higher in the new car, your just asking for trouble.

 

[Earth]

I have a feeling, that if the track was Indianapolis instead of Daytona Stewart would have won by staying in the high lane and not trying to help Kyle Busch

As for the whole Toyota thing, I heard the Toyota engine is very similiar to the Chevrolet engine, nothing is really different as it is all 'spec'

 

[toyota_gt1]

I have a feeling, that if the track was Indianapolis instead of Daytona Stewart would have won by staying in the high lane and not trying to help Kyle Busch

What are you trying to say?

 

[TS]

Ok. I really don't blame Bowyer for doing that but then I do. I do because he obviously needed to help Jeff as much as he could. I don't because there was 10 laps to go in the 50th running of the Daytona 500. When it comes down to those last laps, they drive like they don't have any sense.

Agreed, unless if it's Kyle Busch, then he'll do it no matter what.

Eh? Last I checked, its just the Camry, Matrix and the big trucks. General Motors still builds the majority of their vehicles in the United States, but the parts come from all over. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for Ford and Chrysler...

Still though, Toyota is building a fair share of their cars in the states.

What I don't like about Toyota is that they're going to come in, think they own the place, complain when they get picked on, and overall make it a more expensive process for everyone else.

Yay!

I'm still not happy about them throwing money at Gibbs, and even worse, he buying into it...

They haven't complained much since they entered the Truck series in '04, until last year where they made them change their engine packages when they moved up to Busch (now Nationwide) and cup. And I think it was a good move for them to target a team like Gibbs, because at best, Gibbs was the 2nd or 3rd ranked Chevrolet team behind Hendrick, but I'm sure J.D. would want to be the #1 team of a specific manufacturer and I think he thought the switch would be a good move. Now they get nearly endless factory backing, money, engine support, hell, all they really have to do now is build cars.

I hope Hornish Jr goes on to big things in NASCAR, he really impressed me at Daytona of the single seat converters... more than Montoya who still thinks punting people off is the way to go.

Hornish surprised me when he finished 15th, I didn't have a lot of hope for him when he started last year and I figured he'd go back to the IRL quickly, but unlike guys like Villeneuve and Carpentier, he doesn't have the pressure of having to race his way into all the races, which allows him to focus on racing and gaining experience instead of qualifying.

As for the whole Toyota thing, I heard the Toyota engine is very similiar to the Chevrolet engine, nothing is really different as it is all 'spec'

Wrong, the cars are all spec, but the engines are different. NASCAR mandates the engine size in cubic inches, but power between manufacturers varies alot, I heard the Toyota's make about 20 more HP then the Chevy engines.

 

[RACECAR]

What I don't like about Toyota is that they're going to come in, think they own the place, complain when they get picked on,

When did this happen? I don't recall hearing about it.

 

[TS]

Let's talk about penalties man. *echo* penalties man.

R. Gordon loses 100 points, crew chief suspended

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- NASCAR on Wednesday issued penalties and fines to the No. 7 team that competes in the Sprint Cup Series, as a result of rule infractions found during Speedweeks at Daytona International Speedway.

The No. 7 car, driven and owned by Robby Gordon, was found to be in violation of Sections 12-4-A (actions detrimental to stock car racing); 12-4-Q (car, car parts, components and/or equipment used do not conform to NASCAR rules); and 20-3.10A (unapproved front bumper cover) of the 2008 NASCAR rule book. The violations were found during opening day inspection for the Daytona 500 on Feb. 8.

As a result, Gordon has been penalized 100 championship driver and owner points.

Crew chief Frank Kerr has been fined $100,000, suspended for the next six Sprint Cup Series events until April 9 and placed on probation until Dec. 31, 2008.

Gordon finished eighth in the season-opening Daytona 500. With the penalty, he drops to 40th in points with 42 -- 16 behind 35th-place Casey Mears.

Gordon had announced his switch from Ford to Dodge, along with a new partnership with Gillett Evernham Motorsports, five days earlier and inadvertently had used a Dodge Charger nose that had been submitted to NASCAR but had not yet been approved. Before qualifying for the Daytona 500 on Feb. 10, Gordon replaced the part with an approved Dodge Avenger nose.

Junior dinged 50 points after Daytona infraction
No. 5 crew chief fined $25K, suspended for the six races

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- NASCAR announced on Wednesday that seven of its teams in the Nationwide Series have been penalized due to rule violations during Speedweeks at Daytona International Speedway.

The No. 5 car was found to be in violation of Sections 12-4-A (actions detrimental to stock car racing); 12-4-Q (car, car parts, components and/or equipment used that do not conform to NASCAR rules); 20A-3.1.1E (1) (the rear ends of the spoiler did not meet the specified height); and 20A-3.12.1A (altered rear spoiler after passing template inspection to enhance aerodynamic performance) of the 2008 NASCAR rule book. The violation occurred following practice on Feb. 14.

Driver Dale Earnhardt Jr. has been penalized with the loss of 50 championship driver points, while car owner Rick Hendrick has been penalized 50 championship owner points.

Crew chief Chad Walter has been fined $25,000 and suspended for the next six Nationwide Series events until April 9 and placed on probation until Dec. 31, 2008.

The No. 0, No. 1, No. 14, No. 64, and No. 77 cars were all found to be in violation of Sections 12-4-A; 12-4-Q; and 20A-8.4C (the oil reservoir tank cover was not fastened securely). These violations were discovered during post-qualifying inspection on Feb. 15.

Each of the cars' respective drivers and owners -- Kertus Davis/Johnny Davis for the No. 0; Johnny Sauter/James Finch for the No. 1; David Gilliland/Carl Haas for the No. 14; David Stremme/Ed Rensi for the No. 64; and Cale Gale/ DeLana Harvick for the No. 77 have been penalized with the loss of 25 driver and owner championship points.

Crew chiefs Gene Allnutt (No. 0); Newt Moore (No. 1); Bob Edwards (No. 14); Steve Darne (No. 64); and Charlie Wilson (No. 77) have each been fined $15,000 and suspended for the next six Nationwide Series events until April 9 and placed on probation until Dec. 31, 2008.

Additionally, Jerry Baxter, crew chief for the No. 99 car received a $5,000 fine and was placed on probation until July 9 for violating Sections 12-4-A, 12-4-Q and 20A-5.10.1B(3) (carburetor venturies exceeded the specified size). This infraction took place during opening day inspection on Feb. 12.

 

[Pupik]

Sorry, but I refuse to root for anyone in any Toyota.

You do realize the logos are the only thing manufacturers have any input on these Car of Tomorrow spec-racing cars...right? Toyota wasn't allowed to fully design an all-new motor; everything had to be within exact specifications and tolerances that every other manufacturer (Dodge, Chevy, Ford) used to date. The brand is so meaningless as of now, that NASCAR might as well allow any manufacturer to jump in for world-wide recognition.

In one way, it's "humanizing" the sport; something auto racing has long sought to do. The driver is now more of a personality to the sport, as it is now less popularly thought of as "cars going around" but more of "drivers going around". I'm just speculating a theory; a possible unintended benefit of the CoT that is actually a positive for NASCAR (and possibly all of auto racing) as a whole.

Oh, and ditch the automatic Top-35-cars-get-in rule. If your favorite driver doesn't qualify, tough crap. He shouldn't be earning prize money that another racer deserves. Sport first, appearances second: Anything else is a script.

 

[YSSMAN]

You do realize the logos are the only thing manufacturers have any input on these Car of Tomorrow spec-racing cars...right?

Yes, of course... I completely understand that. But the problem is, its a Toyota, and I can't support it. Its just not something that I can do. No matter how much I loved Tony Stewart and Denny Hamiln beforehand, I just can't support them being behind the wheels of a "Toyota," no matter how similar they are to your given Impala, Avenger, and Fusion.

I think this season is going to be one of the best we've had in years, and I'm happy to have a "bad guy" to root against. They are really, truly fast cars, and they've got talented drivers behind the wheel... This just means that I have to root this much harder for Jr, JPM and Kurt Bush (etc).

No worries: As long as its a competitive season, I'm happy.