National Parks, the Amish, and Hybrid Cars: Enough Ranting for Ten of Us

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1X83Z

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Two different topics:

1 - National parks. The United States government claims that national parks are beautiful and are made in order to secure the land that developers may otherwise grasp. That's a joke. If they're scared about people settling in national parks, then why is Death Valley National Park even in existence? No one in their right mind would settle there. I've come to the conclusion that national parks exist for exactly one reason: money. Once the government designates a certain area as a national park, every so-and-so and the kids want to head off and see the new national park, not even much caring which park it is or where it is. Case in point: Smoky Mountain National Park. People pay a huge daily admission fee and lodge and eat (and otherwise help the area's economy) in an otherwise desolate part of this country, just because they think that there's some beauty in these mountains that there isn't in about half of all of the United States. Well they're wrong. There is no smoke, it's fog, and there's much more picturesque and accessible land forms in most American states. Similarly, various national parks in Maine, California, and Wyoming have un-natural boundaries (i.e. 'this land is part of a national park, but six yards over here, this land is free for the taking') and charge admission fees to lure gullible Americans away from their own beautiful states, with their own beautiful land forms. Money, money, money with our gallant U.S. government

And even if it's not natural, American's will pay top dollar to see it. Examples of this are the heavy tourism in St. Louis, a city that, when compared to other average-size cities in the United States, is fairly average itself, except for the Gateway Arch, a relatively small steel structure that cost only hundreds of thousands to build years ago but has returned millions upon millions in tourism money! Another example along the exact same lines, of course, is what makes South Dakota's annual tourism intake double of what its northern neighbor (Uh, North Dakota) makes - Mt. Rushmore. They carved this thing in the early to mid part of last century and its cost then was huge (in the millions in period-money). Nowadays, thousands of people per day pay hundreds of dollars per day in the area to see this man-made and fairly unimpressive structure! And now that I've moved far enough from the topic on that issue...

2 - I heard a story on CNN or so a few days ago about an Amish buggy in Pennsylvania getting rear-ended (hard) by an Avenger (the Dodge), and a few Amish people died. At the time, I began to think - why do the Amish live in the way in which they do? To live as they do (basically, for those who don't know, as their ancestors did it) would be to swear off any technology in the past two hundred years. They still ride buggies, make their own milk, and even dress in period-clothing. So what's the point? If the Amish want to live like that, they can - but I think I've come up with a fairly compelling argument against it.

Think: The Amish have basically stopped their society in the early 1800's. To do this is to swear off technology since then, which, although not wrong, can be viewed as crazy for the simple reason that, if they want to live like their ancestors did, do they believe their ancestors truly would not absorb technology as it is today? Do they believe their ancestors would've stopped time and life at a certain point as the rest of the world moved speedily (and efficiently) by? I think it's absurd. The Amish are trying to live out 19th Century values in a 21st Century world. I say, why even bother? Not that the Amish community is seriously growing, or that there's even more than a few thousand Amish in Indiana and Pennsylvaina. Still, it's a fairly odd belief system.

3 - Get real, people - Hybrid cars?! Eight years ago, in 1994, a friend of mine bought an SUV. At the time, none of my friends had SUV's, and this was the first person any of my friend ever knew who owned an SUV. About three years later, we all had SUV's and it was so commonplace that rather than tell - or even care - what SUV's we bought, we simply said to each other upon the purchase of a new one, "I bought an SUV." Since then, millions upon millions of Americans have joined us in the joys and pitfalls of SUV ownership. Gas was cheap and the economy was good, so we all bought SUV's and didn't think twice. In 1999 or so, gas got expensive, and in 2001, our economy took a serious nose-dive. And because Americans are creatures of the times, the once-SUV-owning liberals all jumped on a single band wagon: Hybrid cars.

They're expensive to buy, only limited in practicality, and usually ugly, but consider - which SUV's weren't all of those things in 1994? For the last year, everyone's been looking for the new wave in cars, but I think it's clear - hybrid cars. More and more are being made, and, just like SUV's were ten years ago, they're a perfect sign of the times: downsizing, rising costs, and a slower American economy. But the thing that all SUV buyers (not myself, though :P) and hybrid car owners overlook is that there IS something better, cheaper, and nicer - in this case, it's called a turbodiesel (VW Jetta TDi's in the USA get comparable mileage to the Prius and new Civic Hybrid and cost about $2k less, despite being completely loaded with features). Ten years ago, that 'something better' was called an all-wheel drive wagon, and several companies made them.

So national parks are a sham, the Amish need to modernize, and hybrid cars are the new wave in the car world. You've learned a lot today, haven't you? :P

Oh, and by the way - a friend of mine called me up the other day. After we exchanged greetings, he exclaimed, happily, "Doug! I got a hybrid car!"

I just hope I don't get sucked into another mad fad like hybrid cars - or trucks - like I was sucked into the SUV craze. But I swear - I liked all the SUV's for sale! And I still do. And maybe, when they listen to my 'carbon-based species' argument about never running out of oil (usually told in tandem with the three rants above), we can start a new craze: 13-passenger full-size trucks. Yum. :)
 
1. No comment.
2. Agreed. (Heck, I'd be dead without a computer and the Internet!) However, I totally accept their way of life... as long as it doesn't cause any harm to me, it's fine. But, that does not prevent me from thinking that they're a lil' off their rockers. :smilewink
3. Agreed, though in a slightly different way...

One things that Europeans certainly have right is their use of diesel cars (and the cleaner-burning diesel fuel that they use). The U.S. seems to have issues with going back to diesel for some reason (though Jeep plans to release a diesel-powered Liberty in '04), which is really... dumb, for lack of a better word. One thing that would be cool would be a diesel hybrid... just imagine the mileage one could get! :)
 
Hey, the Government's gotta pay off those debts some how.. why not through charging to visit a park? It really should be free though. I mean, the government set aside the land for people to visit.
In regards to number 2, yeah the amish really need to accept modern technology for what it is. But you also have to understand that they wish to live the way they want. I've seen several Amish people in cars too, so some have partially accepted technology.
finally, number 3, I agree with you there too. BUT, the government(and most other countries) is trying to phase out gasoline because it is highly pollutant and find a cleaner source of fuel such as Hydrogen and electricity. Think about it, if alternate fuel sources are put into use 20 even 50 years down the road, it will preserve earth for future generations. I hope this post isnt rehashing what you have said already, if i did I must have not caught everything.
 
Problem is, "making" hydrogen and electricity uses about the same amount of fossil fuels as does sending them straight to cars...
 
I like the national parks. In Arizona where there is an abundance of land and an abundance of greedy land developers it is a relief that something will save some of it. I need a place to drive my SUV! :lol: Of course by now I need a biger one because I can no longer see over the Escalades, Excursions, Exploders, and Hummers :rolleyes: Shouldn't an SUV be somewhat nimble and maneuverable?

Hybrids are a scam aimed at liberal guilt. They won't be around long. That is, unless they make them much more practical and affordable.

Amish? Hm. Good for them I guess. It's a free country. At least they don't incessantly complain.
 
1.No comment
2.If that's the way they want to live, it's fine with me.
3. Hybrid cars=stupid! I personally hate hybrid cars. I was watching a Road and Track show the other day and they were talking about hybrids. One guy being interviewed had a hybrid RAV4. He said it would do 0-60 in 10-11 seconds and it would smoke most other vehicles out there. Yeah right. 10 to 11 seconds is pretty dang slow! And so are all other hybrids. They're not very practical either.

And SUV's rule. We took our '97 Explorer with a 302 and AWD out in the snow for the first time today. We felt much more connected to the road than our old minivan and truck. Don't like minivans either...... :rolleyes:
:D
 
Originally posted by youth_cycler
Problem is, "making" hydrogen and electricity uses about the same amount of fossil fuels as does sending them straight to cars...
true.... but hydrogen can be found in abundance in water.... hence the reason its called H20. The planet is 70 to 85% water.
Yeah it does cost a fortune to break apart water molecules these days, but i think the hope is that in the future there will be cheaper ways to do it. Right now, there isnt the technology in place to cheaply make it.
I don't know... I have no clue what im talking about anyway.
 
Originally posted by milefile
I like the national parks. In Arizona where there is an abundance of land and an abundance of greedy land developers it is a relief that something will save some of it. I need a place to drive my SUV! :lol: Of course by now I need a biger one because I can no longer see over the Escalades, Excursions, Exploders, and Hummers :rolleyes: Shouldn't an SUV be somewhat nimble and maneuverable?


Don't get me wrong, I love the national parks. But they're all about money and, to some degree, the absolute gulliblity of the United States public (but so are certain American car makes like Buick).

Oh, and, no, SUVs only purpose now is to be larger and more powerful than your neighbor's. I live in one of the flattest states in this country, and I have a neighbor with a Laforza and a brand new Navigator. :D

Hybrids are a scam aimed at liberal guilt. They won't be around long. That is, unless they make them much more practical and affordable.

All those people buying them made so much money on tech stocks, they don't care what they cost just so long as the whole world *thinks* they're saving the environment.
 
Originally posted by M5Power
Remember, fossil fuels are infinite as long as carbon-based species are dying on Earth!!

You keep saying this and I wish you were right but I don't think you are. Don't you think it's possible for us to use it faster than it can be produced? Especially as the poulation explodes (like a Ford :lol: ) . . .
 
Yes, and that's the problem. alex_gt says that a study says we have enough fossil fuels for 100 more years, give or take. Now, obviously I'm right - fossil fuels come from bones of species like humans, and with these bones, we'll never run out of oil. The problem, then, is that fossil fuels take a hell of a long time to be converted to oil. I figure in the next 100 years, we could invent something that will make it occur much faster.

I told a co-worker today that maybe with this new invention as well as cloning, we would clone someone, kill the clone, then put their bones in the machine and get some real value from cloning. :D
 
Hs anybody actually ever seen a chart of how much the human population has grown?

It grew pretty slowly at first, but shot up like a rocket during the Industrial Revolution (read, Exponential Growth)... it's quite astounding to see it graphed. Literally looks like a backwards "L".

true.... but hydrogen can be found in abundance in water.... hence the reason its called H20. The planet's surface is 70 to 85% water.
Yes, do keep in mind that I'm in AP Biology, so I know more about water than I can stand. ;)

Anyway, there certainly is the hope of a breakthrough technology to bring hydrogen-containing-molecule-decomposition processes down significantly, but one can't bet on it. The point is, until there is a breakthrough in fuel production, whatever it might be, we should start conserving our current fuel source now (by utilizing diesels to a certain extent). :)
 
I just read today that a hundred years ago the U.S. poulation was about 75,000,000 and today it is almost 300,000,000 and in 50 years it's projected to be something like 700,000,000.

Man that kinda freaks me out :eek:
 
Oil suckzzz!

Actually, that's a fairly true statement. Surprising how much oil shapes the international political scene, even. If only GW Bush put together the teams of inventors and scientists on my invention rather than spending money on Saudi oil...
 
1. Yeah it's silly, there's free parks around Florida that offer virtually the same taste of nature that state/national parks have. However, that's almost all that will be left by the time we have grandchildren.

2. They're on a permanent Sabbath, that's the way I look at it. If it helps them achieve a religious experience, and it doesn't bother me, than I could care less. They lead a simpler life, that's for sure...I want to slap the whining ninny that crys about her cellphone bill.

3. Welcome to the trend of the fad car! It's been going on for some time; in the late-'80s it was small sports (or "sporty") cars, then small trucks were popular, then SUVs, and I suppose hybrids are next for those who want to suffer. There's also the branching trend of making one's dream car for the streets (you know, making a Daewoo Lanos a mock racecar). This too, shall pass.

Some people view the idea of automobile differently than we do. I think there's four classes of auto owner:

1. "Trend setter"/wannabe (typical SUV owner)
2. Basic car owner (probably unsure if Studebaker exists anymore)
3. Enthusiast (most of us, no shock)
4. Nutcase (car/cars is/are worth more than home)
 
1.) I guess it's there for those that want it and if you're not interested don't go there.

2.) The Amish..... Hmmmm..... Well you are the "land of the free" so if that's the way they choose to live then down to them, but it's down to you to respect it because you would ask others to respect the way you choose to live your life.

They still ride buggies, make their own milk, and even dress in period-clothing
Make their own milk...... err that's cows mate. :lol: And going on current fashion trends I don't know if we have the right to comment.

But, it's a "whatever" to my mind.

3.) You guys don't use deisel? :eek: Where have you been for the last 50 years? Blimey..... Mercedes even entered a diesel powered race car in Le Mans, two years ago? (don't quote me, might have been the year before) Just about all my family (except me) run diesel vehicles. They're fine unless you're going for outright performance and my brother in laws Toyota Landcruiser is massively powerful.

Next you'll be telling me you don't have lead free fuels or gas powered vehicles. I've just started noticing electric cars running round the streets of London.
 
I'm not upto reading all that.

My only issue with the extremist liberal position on what cars should be on the street is how $#!$!~&^$ dull it would be. You know some of them want a purely safety designed, auto driving hunk of uninspired, aesthetically dead crap.

I wonder how many former sports car drivers will be taking their pistols out of their glove compartments and end their misery.

On the plus side, engine music CDs will sell big.
 
Originally posted by Talentless
On the plus side, engine music CDs will sell big.
I used to have a tape recording of a 1979 F1 Ferrari V12, and blast it as I was driving my Accord.

That is Loud. But I sure wish I still had the recording (or a tape deck).
 
1.) Besides private business on Governmentail land, most national parks barely break even in trying to keep the park clean, preserved, and pay the rangers that partol them. If there are any profits made, I believe the parks are a sharing system and they all distrubate the extra cash to parks that might be saving for a big project. I nothing againist them, I think its nice.

2.) Amish don't bother me, its a free country as they say, and if thats the way they chose to live it, then more power to them!

3.) I don't nessairy like the Hybrid cars, but at least someone is making an effort in finding a different way of powering our cars without to much expense. Grant it, Gas engines are the cleanest then they have ever been, but why can't we look at other ways to get people around personally. Thats where money and government comes into play. Oil makes the world go round right now, and if there were to be a change in how much it is used, then there would have to be major changes in the world and society itself, and no government wants to take that on.

K, I am done.
 
Originally posted by milefile


You mean the surface is.

yeah that too. :lol: It was late when i posted that, so i was tired at the time. my bad. I must have been thinking "gee the human body is 70% water or so" and got that mixed up with the whole earth's surface thing.
 
Originally posted by slip2rock

3.) You guys don't use deisel? :eek: Where have you been for the last 50 years? Blimey..... Mercedes even entered a diesel powered race car in Le Mans, two years ago? (don't quote me, might have been the year before) Just about all my family (except me) run diesel vehicles. They're fine unless you're going for outright performance and my brother in laws Toyota Landcruiser is massively powerful.

I know - it's totally absurd, but in the late 1970's, we used to get Mercedes diesels with engines that were, smelly, unreliable, and loud. The problem is that uneducated Americans (not me, though) actually believe that diesel engines are still - 30 years later, mind you - smelly, unreliable, and loud. Evidently Americans believe there's no such thing as a technological advancement. Idiots.

By Magic069...

most national parks barely break even in trying to keep the park clean, preserved, and pay the rangers that partol them. If there are any profits made, I believe the parks are a sharing system and they all distrubate the extra cash to parks that might be saving for a big project. I nothing againist them, I think its nice.

:lol: - National parks literally rake in money. They pay the minimal staff (national parks the size of Andorra have the same staff that just a few - ten, maybe - car dealers would) minimum wage, they drive outdated vehicles and use outdated campgrounds. All money goes back to Bush for the National Missle Defence program, or whatnot.

By Talentless...

My only issue with the extremist liberal position on what cars should be on the street is how $#!$!~&^$ dull it would be. You know some of them want a purely safety designed, auto driving hunk of uninspired, aesthetically dead crap.

Well, as I alluded to above, SUV's were uninspired, aesthetically dead crap ten years ago, but - as anyone with half a brain would agree - have drastically improved over the last ten years. No telling what hybrid cars could do in the next fifteen to twenty years.
 
I repeat, "auto-driving." SUVs may be ugly, but no matter how awesome the hybrid/electric car looks, do you want what would essentially amount to a train car?
 
You misunderstood what I said. Hybrid cars - the new fad - are crude now, as were SUVs - the previous fad - when the SUV's first came out.

But, hybrid cars will, just as SUV's did, improve drastically.
 
But that's another issue. I'm not talking about the probable advancement of the cars, but of what extremists want. Automatic driving vehicles with crash resistance being 99.999% of the design philosophy; boring, even if powerful, engines. They'll want the engines quiet because a bird might get annoyed.
 
Oh, liberals as a whole rather than just hybrid cars.

Well, if you got your way, we'd all be driving either an American sports car or an American pickup with a conferedate flag and a gunrack. :P
 
M5Power, you've got to be kidding, right?

How are you sporting a joshua tree avatar (perhaps not from Joshua Tree National Park, but still...) and going on about National Parks?

I'm not saying you are right or wrong on your opinion of the parks system, but it would be like me going on about corporate sponsorship in the racing world and displaying an ad-plastered DTM TT with my every post.
 
Originally posted by quattro_bro
M5Power, you've got to be kidding, right?

How are you sporting a joshua tree avatar (perhaps not from Joshua Tree National Park, but still...) and going on about National Parks?

I'm not saying you are right or wrong on your opinion of the parks system, but it would be like me going on about corporate sponsorship in the racing world and displaying an ad-plastered DTM TT with my every post.

Indeed it is from Joshua Tree National Park in southern California! Not only that, but I've been to that park seven times... In fact, I'm about 90% sure that it's the reason for my national parks rant, but you people mis-understand me. I am not against preservation or beauty of national parks at ALL, I just question our government's motive.
 
Fair enough.

Not saying it's hypocritical, I just thought it seemed a bit ironic.

I, too, am a fan of the National Parks--been to nearly all of them--but I sincerely doubt that it takes the entire visitor's fee kitty to maintain the parks' natural state. In fact, hasn't mother nature been doing it for free all along?
 
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