Nations cup dragons tail punt

[Groundfish]

What part don’t you get man? He was covering the inside, he was never gonna let you go inside there, and it was very poor driving for you to attempt it. The smart move there is take the outside line and go for a late apex to try and make a move on the exit. That was basically the ONLY option open to you at that time.

What you have to realize is many people who drive like this and end up in these ‘situations’ often post about how the drivers in game are so dirty preventing them from staying safe.

People don’t get overtaking at all atblower levels. They wanna go past! Now! Floor it in the braking zone! LMAO
As you well know better racers know it happens more like a chess match...Get a run
draft close...force the car to defend inside under braking...take normal entry hemming them tight...get a good drive outta the turn and try to get track position...
At lower levels it’s floor it down the inside and pray a car or wall is there for you to ricochet off LMAO

 

[The359]

The audio at the braking point shows I let off at the tap then throttled once cleared.

You're on the throttle. In the braking point. After the braking point, even. How is this difficult to understand?

If you're beyond the braking point, you're not making the corner, and if you're not making the corner you're definitely not making the pass. It was a 0% chance of success.

 

[Matrix243123]

There's several things you're just not taking into account.

Firstly, he also hit the outside wall. You can't see that because you're not running your radar (also, use your radar), but when you flick back to the rear view, he is emerging from the same place you were. That's a pretty big clue that you hit him a lot harder than you think you did.

The reason for that is right there in the post you quoted:

You're both on four-bar connections, which suggests that there is some latency at play, and latency is a bitch when it comes to car-to-car contact.

Simply put, everyone on your screen is where your console is guessing that they are almost all the time. It's a bit different in the FIA events, due to the fixed servers, but everything on your screen apart from you is probably not actually where it looks like it is. In essence, your console receives car position data and then has to guess for several frames until it receives new car position data. If the latency is stable or relatively small (under 50ms or so), it's fine, but if it's getting into the 100ms range and jittery, there's a lot of guesswork.

When you hit him, you were doing 161mph. At 161mph with a generous 80ms ping, the car may be almost six metres away from where your screen shows it - that's a full car length. Your screen shows he hit the brakes while you were more or less touching, but he may have been a full car length away and hit by you at 161mph while he'd been on the brakes for nearly a full tenth of a second already

Your screen also shows you losing 8mph in 0.3s between impact and any switch from power to braking - roughly 1.2G of deceleration, or about the same as stamping fully on the brakes - and under the principle of conservation of momentum (and GTS's inelastic collisions), you'd have accelerated him by broadly the same amount. That would mean he had effectively zero braking for a couple of tenths of a second, while in a maximum braking zone.

He also speared left after impact, which might have been a contributing factor to where he ended up - we won't know because you didn't have radar on. But we're talking about a significant hit here, not a "tap".

I suspect if that player turns up here on GTP and shares a replay from his point of view of that crash, we'll see a big old hit (if you show your replay from his point of view, it'll still be subject to the very same latency). As you accelerated afterwards for no reason and slammed into the outside wall, it will look like you attempted a full speed ram on him - because your car didn't slow down either.


And that's why you got revenge punted.

So as an amateur CS driver I also need to account for latency issues on both sides, or no one with lower then full latency should play? It all comes down to whether I intentionally sent him into the wall and I 100% disagree. There was lots of room he had on the left to absorb and hold the line. You can see the supra is still facing forward and only tilted slightly. You can see he was late on the brakes and let off then on again, you can peg me for his wall collision. And once again, look at all my previous laps, they were all 100% courtesy. And only used the wall that one time for a slow down, just wasn't completely paying attention to where the braking zone was when the car that I'm overtaking is where my focus is and partially blocking the markers. Not everyone has the braking zones memorized with a CS driver rating.

 

[Famine]

So as an amateur CS driver I also need to account for latency issues on both sides, or no one with lower then full latency should play?

Uhh... whu?

Latency - in this case the time between something happening and it being displayed to you - is a bad thing, but it always exists, because things take time to get places. It doesn't matter who you're racing, or where, or when; even in a LAN there's latency, though it's about as small as it's possible to get.

When you're talking about people who are not in the same place geographically, latency gets bigger the further away you get (and that's in data distance terms; network infrastructure does not follow direct line paths between two points - so places that are geographically close could be very far apart in data terms). It's unavoidable because that's the physical laws of the universe in which we reside.

As such, all drivers need to account for latency. The guy you're just behind might be three feet away, and if you tap him it might be a punt to them - a clean pass might be a paint-trading one to the person you pass. Nothing you see is what "really" happens, it's just what your console can show you with its best guess of where other people are between data packets.

It all comes down to whether I intentionally sent him into the wall and I 100% disagree.

All that matters is whether he thinks that you did - and apparently he did, given the revenge punt. If you look at it objectively, you can see why because the evidence is there - you've given him a much, much harder hit than you think you did, then you both ended up in the wall. To him, that would look like you've smashed into him so hard you couldn't even stop either - though really what happened was you went full power in a braking zone for no reason.


If you hit someone and it's not on purpose, wait for them to recover their place in front of you, then give them a few corners to get back up to speed before trying to pass again.

 

[Matrix243123]

Uhh... whu?

Latency - in this case the time between something happening and it being displayed to you - is a bad thing, but it always exists, because things take time to get places. It doesn't matter who you're racing, or where, or when; even in a LAN there's latency, though it's about as small as it's possible to get.

When you're talking about people who are not in the same place geographically, latency gets bigger the further away you get (and that's in data distance terms; network infrastructure does not follow direct line paths between two points - so places that are geographically close could be very far apart in data terms). It's unavoidable because that's the physical laws of the universe in which we reside.

As such, all drivers need to account for latency. The guy you're just behind might be three feet away, and if you tap him it might be a punt to them - a clean pass might be a paint-trading one to the person you pass. Nothing you see is what "really" happens, it's just what your console can show you with its best guess of where other people are between data packets.

All that matters is whether he thinks that you did - and apparently he did, given the revenge punt. If you look at it objectively, you can see why because the evidence is there - you've given him a much, much harder hit than you think you did, then you both ended up in the wall. To him, that would look like you've smashed into him so hard you couldn't even stop either - though really what happened was you went full power in a braking zone for no reason.


If you hit someone and it's not on purpose, wait for them to recover their place in front of you, then give them a few corners to get back up to speed before trying to pass again.

I know the latency, I just mean your drawing out such a fine line to meet when you're not accounting for anyone's experience level. Probably should give a buffer zone which I have in almost all of the race. It is why you see such big chain reactions when there's such tight grouping. I get that. I was also considering letting him go but realized after checking the rear view I had some momentum advantage after wall impact so I took it. There are infinitely worse cases then mine, its so weird how this could be taken so personally with everyone. But if you see enough of it, everyone just throws you on top of the pile of useless drivers.

Games been out for quite awhile which is part of the problem I bet, and just never got to the online racing side. So there's a ton of veterans that can analyze to the nth degree and call everyone a horrific driver.

 

[ScottPuss20]

There's several things you're just not taking into account.

Firstly, he also hit the outside wall. You can't see that because you're not running your radar (also, use your radar), but when you flick back to the rear view, he is emerging from the same place you were. That's a pretty big clue that you hit him a lot harder than you think you did.

The reason for that is right there in the post you quoted:

You're both on four-bar connections, which suggests that there is some latency at play, and latency is a bitch when it comes to car-to-car contact.

Simply put, everyone on your screen is where your console is guessing that they are almost all the time. It's a bit different in the FIA events, due to the fixed servers, but everything on your screen apart from you is probably not actually where it looks like it is. In essence, your console receives car position data and then has to guess for several frames until it receives new car position data. If the latency is stable or relatively small (under 50ms or so), it's fine, but if it's getting into the 100ms range and jittery, there's a lot of guesswork.

When you hit him, you were doing 161mph. At 161mph with a generous 80ms ping, the car may be almost six metres away from where your screen shows it - that's a full car length. Your screen shows he hit the brakes while you were more or less touching, but he may have been a full car length away and hit by you at 161mph while he'd been on the brakes for nearly a full tenth of a second already

Your screen also shows you losing 8mph in 0.3s between impact and any switch from power to braking - roughly 1.2G of deceleration, or about the same as stamping fully on the brakes - and under the principle of conservation of momentum (and GTS's inelastic collisions), you'd have accelerated him by broadly the same amount. That would mean he had effectively zero braking for a couple of tenths of a second, while in a maximum braking zone.

He also speared left after impact, which might have been a contributing factor to where he ended up - we won't know because you didn't have radar on. But we're talking about a significant hit here, not a "tap".

I suspect if that player turns up here on GTP and shares a replay from his point of view of that crash, we'll see a big old hit (if you show your replay from his point of view, it'll still be subject to the very same latency). As you accelerated afterwards for no reason and slammed into the outside wall, it will look like you attempted a full speed ram on him - because your car didn't slow down either.


And that's why you got revenge punted.

Mate, he clearly isn't getting the message so why are you ripping into him? Jesus, no wonder he's getting his back up at you. This constant analysis would be enough to send anyone crazy. Let it go, you're not getting anywhere with this conversation. Both of you guys seem unwilling to back down, and it's causing a stupid argument which GT Planet does not stand for or represent. The flame baiting has to stop. Sorry to be the umpire here but this has just become a joke of a thread which isn't solving anything at all.

 

[KepleroGT]

I don't know why the OP and others are still replying to this thread, and I agree with CLowndes. He's clearly not listening so there's no need to overanalyze every single move of his as if we were at the World Finals.
I've probably been through one or two situations like this when I was starting out, this thread could've been summarized in "that move was stupid, you don't stomp on the gas in the middle of the braking zone, I understand why the other guy ragepunted you". Maybe he understands this better.
You should concentrate on making the corners first, not engine braking so hard because this is not the 1960s and also because the rear goes loose, and watch some videos about how to overtake. If you try a new move and it goes badly, that's life. You learn from experience.
And yes, give him the position back.

 

[Famine]

Mate, he clearly isn't getting the message so why are you ripping into him? Jesus, no wonder he's getting his back up at you. This constant analysis would be enough to send anyone crazy. Let it go, you're not getting anywhere with this conversation. Both of you guys seem unwilling to back down, and it's causing a stupid argument which GT Planet does not stand for or represent. The flame baiting has to stop. Sorry to be the umpire here but this has just become a joke of a thread which isn't solving anything at all.

I'm not sure how explaining how latency would make what he thought was a tap actually be a full-bore punt to the other player (and covering all the evidence that shows it was worse that he thinks it was) qualifies as "ripping into" anyone.

GTPlanet very much does stand for making players more informed.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I'm not sure how explaining how latency would make what he thought was a tap actually be a full-bore punt to the other player (and covering all the evidence that shows it was worse that he thinks it was) qualifies as "ripping into" anyone.

GTPlanet very much does stand for making players more informed.

I wasn't just commenting on that post, but on all of them as a whole.

But does GTPlanet stand to upset and annoy someone continually when they don't listen or agree with you?

 

[Famine]

I wasn't just commenting on that post, but on all of them as a whole.

Yet you quoted that one and asked a direct question. Aside from saying his line in the chicane was mince, I don't think anything I've said even comes close to "ripping into" anyone - and I gave advice on how to do it better.

But does GTPlanet stand to make players more informed at the cost of their own sanity?

If someone comes looking for information, they may get information they don't like. I couldn't really give a toss - information is information whether you like it or not - but even if they don't like it, someone may encounter it and be helped by it, because... you know, forum. People don't realise that their consoles are guessing where everyone is, or the effect latency has on that, or the effect distance has on latency. Perhaps someone will read that post and be enlightened. Perhaps not.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Yet you quoted that one and asked a direct question. Aside from saying his line in the chicane was mince, I don't think anything I've said even comes close to "ripping into" anyone - and I gave advice on how to do it better.

If someone comes looking for information, they may get information they don't like. I couldn't really give a toss - information is information whether you like it or not - but even if they don't like it, someone may encounter it and be helped by it, because... you know, forum. People don't realise that their consoles are guessing where everyone is, or the effect latency has on that, or the effect distance has on latency. Perhaps someone will read that post and be enlightened. Perhaps not.

Doesn't really excuse the constant hounding though. If someone is unwilling to accept the information, why give it?

 

[Famine]

Doesn't really excuse the constant hounding though. If someone is unwilling to accept the information, why give it?

Again with the hyperbole. It's a forum. People make posts, other people respond to posts. That's how it works. If you don't want responses, don't make posts. It's not like people are continually responding without new posts being made - they're responding to the new posts that are made.

 

[jimihemmy]

So i have read all of these posts.....

@Matrix243123

You are getting hounded because we cannot understand why you would accelerate after the tap. No worries, I understand what you were trying to do and hopefully you now know that it doesn't work. At least not at that corner.

We are all just trying to help....You will learn and get better with experience. I know if I was the other driver, I would have tried to punt you too....for driving me in to the wall, not for the tap. After the tap, you should have stayed on the brakes because you were not going to pass on the that corner at that point. Just slow down and set him up later. You still had some laps to pass. I have found in my experience, if you keep constant pressure on someone, more times than not, they will make an error because they are concentrating on you and not the track, and then you pass them when they do.

If they don't, then so be it. Race another day.

Every corner of every lap should be treated as your first time. You never know what people are going to do at any given time. Someone may take a corner the same way for 10 laps and then surprise you on the 11th. You don't know if their tires are now shot or if their wife started yelling at them...anything can happen.

Eventually you will be racing people you recognize and will learn their tendencies and it can make racing with others a lot more predictable (and enjoyable).

Also, latency is REAL. I personally race to what I see because I don't have time to be worrying about if they are really there or not. But I also try to make sure that there is some kind of space around me.

Keep racing. Its the only way to gain the experience.....

 

[Matrix243123]

So i have read all of these posts.....

@Matrix243123

You are getting hounded because we cannot understand why you would accelerate after the tap. No worries, I understand what you were trying to do and hopefully you now know that it doesn't work. At least not at that corner.

We are all just trying to help....You will learn and get better with experience. I know if I was the other driver, I would have tried to punt you too....for driving me in to the wall, not for the tap. After the tap, you should have stayed on the brakes because you were not going to pass on the that corner at that point. Just slow down and set him up later. You still had some laps to pass. I have found in my experience, if you keep constant pressure on someone, more times than not, they will make an error because they are concentrating on you and not the track, and then you pass them when they do.

If they don't, then so be it. Race another day.

Every corner of every lap should be treated as your first time. You never know what people are going to do at any given time. Someone may take a corner the same way for 10 laps and then surprise you on the 11th. You don't know if their tires are now shot or if their wife started yelling at them...anything can happen.

Eventually you will be racing people you recognize and will learn their tendencies and it can make racing with others a lot more predictable (and enjoyable).

Also, latency is REAL. I personally race to what I see because I don't have time to be worrying about if they are really there or not. But I also try to make sure that there is some kind of space around me.

Keep racing. Its the only way to gain the experience.....

Done.

 

[ScottPuss20]

So i have read all of these posts.....

@Matrix243123

You are getting hounded because we cannot understand why you would accelerate after the tap. No worries, I understand what you were trying to do and hopefully you now know that it doesn't work. At least not at that corner.

We are all just trying to help....You will learn and get better with experience. I know if I was the other driver, I would have tried to punt you too....for driving me in to the wall, not for the tap. After the tap, you should have stayed on the brakes because you were not going to pass on the that corner at that point. Just slow down and set him up later. You still had some laps to pass. I have found in my experience, if you keep constant pressure on someone, more times than not, they will make an error because they are concentrating on you and not the track, and then you pass them when they do.

If they don't, then so be it. Race another day.

Every corner of every lap should be treated as your first time. You never know what people are going to do at any given time. Someone may take a corner the same way for 10 laps and then surprise you on the 11th. You don't know if their tires are now shot or if their wife started yelling at them...anything can happen.

Eventually you will be racing people you recognize and will learn their tendencies and it can make racing with others a lot more predictable (and enjoyable).

Also, latency is REAL. I personally race to what I see because I don't have time to be worrying about if they are really there or not. But I also try to make sure that there is some kind of space around me.

Keep racing. Its the only way to gain the experience.....

Isn't it funny that a premium user mediates the argument better than a moderator...