New Civic Type-R

[Jim Prower]

Waaaait a sec....

Only 200 HP?

hm, seems the type-R's only advantage over the U.S.-spec Si is the fact it's smaller.

Kudos to Honda, though, for spreading the good cars around instead of keeping them in Eurasia. Though i'd like to see a Type-R bodykit for the U.S. Si.

 

[YSSMAN]

...I was confused about that too. How much better is the Type-R going to be over the Si if there isnt a substantial difference in horsepower? The only difference I can think of is overall size and therefore weight, where presumably the Type-R would win... But in the hands of a good driver, I'm sure the Si could keep up...

BTW: Does the European market get the Si coupe?

 

[Wolfe]

Speaking of the Si and Type-R's 200 horsepower, that reminds me of something that gave me a laugh in the March issue of Car and Driver -- the Si and the new GTI both have 2.0L 197hp 4-cylinder engines, but the Si produces 139lb.ft at 6200rpm, and the GTI produces 207lb.ft at 1800rpm.

It's amazing how much a small turbo can help.

 

[YSSMAN]

The torque and balanced chassis also helped the GTI win in the long run. Its about everyday use as well as sporty entertainment, and the GTI fits the bill. Just like the month before, the GLI embarassed the Accord V6 sedan, Acura TSX (see European Accord), Mazdaspeed 6, and Pontiac G6 GTP...

 

[Encyclopedia]

I prefer the previous model.

 

[the Interceptor]

In the last episode of "5th Gear" they talked about the new Civic Type-R, and they reported that rumours say it wouldn't have more power than the old model (as stated before), but it would be much lighter. Now, I wonder about that bit, because the old one wasn't heavy at all with about 1.2 tons. Todays Golfs, Focuses and companions all are more like 1.4 tons. So how light is the new Civic gonna be? The standard model also is about 1.2 tons by the way. So, it is a rumour that won't come out to be true, or the new Type-R will be a lightened version of the standard model.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Poverty]

It could be true. A lower weight in this class of about 100-200kg will be alot more benifical on the track than a extra 30bhp.

However rumours also indicate that a civc Type-RR could have around 220-240bhp.

 

[Pupik]

Well, you'd be right except a TVR wouldn't intrest Americans in the slightest. They make way too much power for their displacement, the door openings are too small for our size 58 arse to fit through and there's no place for our automatic weapons and a 60 oz Slurpie.

Maybe if they bumped up the displacement by 500 or so CID (us 'Murricans can't count in metric), dropped horsepower to about 80 and make it look like a Seacraft Classic you might have something.

Gotta go, Bubba. Time to have me 'nother huntin' axe-e-dent.


M

You reek of Panhandle.

Actually, the Civic looks good as a coupe (which I think is North American market-only), weird as a sedan, but interesting as a hatchback. When I see it in person, I'll know if it's overstyled or not. In general, the hatch looks good, something different, but the Type-R exterior trim looks a little over the top.

Anyone else think this yellow ITR looks like Ariel's fishy companion from the Little Mermaid?

 

[GT Pro]

Actual Pics of upcoming Type-R below:

 

[the Interceptor]

Any info about the specs? Some say it'll have the same engine as the old one, some say it'll be 200hp, but 2,2 litres. And I hear everywhere that it'll be lighter than the previous Civic Type-R, which was nowhere heavy by todays standards with 12xx kg.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Onikaze]

Speaking of the Si and Type-R's 200 horsepower, that reminds me of something that gave me a laugh in the March issue of Car and Driver -- the Si and the new GTI both have 2.0L 197hp 4-cylinder engines, but the Si produces 139lb.ft at 6200rpm, and the GTI produces 207lb.ft at 1800rpm.

It's amazing how much a small turbo can help.

Still a Volkswagon.

I read another review where they autocrossed the two cars, and the autocrossers unanimously preferred the Si to the "feels like it's rolling over" GTI. In a Wrong Wheel Drive car, I'll take balance and predictable handling over power, actually.

 

[Elegy]

Most of our roads are flat, straight, and most citizens travel by expressway from city to city, etc. We don't have the rather silly roundabouts, twisty country roads, etc. as most of our streets have been built on a grid pattern.

Mostly correct, but exceptions exist.

I don't like the looks, but if it performs okay, I can forgive it. Substance over style, FTW.

 

[Poverty]

I want the conception version. If its the stylings turned down like in those pics it will look tacky.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd say the American coupe looks better, but I'm a VAG guy when it comes to cars like this. I'd much rather spend the extra $3000 on a GTI with the DSG over an Si any day, even if it "feels like it is rolling over."

Practicality with a dash of sport is good enough for me...

 

[Onikaze]

Well, technically I couldn't justify spending anything on a Civic Si, it's just more desireable to me than the GTI.

I'll be damned if I ever spend my money on another Wrong Wheel Drive car for myself, ever again.

 

[Wolfe]

Well, the american GTI was given a slightly-less-sporty suspension setup because they needed to raise the car to meet our bumper-height restriction, and probably also because they wanted to soften it up a bit for us americans...

 

[Sniffs]

man, how'd I miss THIS thread...probably when my lemon was broke down again

isn't that design the one w're geytting here in the states? th 'squint" job mas mentioned by Wolfe 2x7 in the march C and D (which I have) comparo with the GTI?

as for you ye little yank bashin sod, we're not the ones with 2 meter wide streets for two lanes of traffic that you can't keep paved cause it costs too much. americans have bigger things cause when the colonists came over here, there was all this room. Native Americans didn't have the continent packed full to bursting either.
rant ended.

it is a bit fugly. the color reminds me of the one that was on the Spoon Civic R in GT2. a bit too garish. also, yellow is a performance color. i think it got a rep because yellow was typically used on the likes of an AMC gremin and other duds.

i wouldn't mind the likes of a TVR either, or a European Scrooge-mobile, but, in the same issue mentioned by wolfe there is a report on america's weird "foreign market" setup that doesn't allow anything into the country younger than 25 years old without extensive modifications to the structure, etc to pass American safety standardsfirst. someone should post the article for our European members to start a 20 page thread about. wish I could find it.

 

[GT Pro]

i wouldn't mind the likes of a TVR either, or a European Scrooge-mobile, but, in the same issue mentioned by wolfe there is a report on america's weird "foreign market" setup that doesn't allow anything into the country younger than 25 years old without extensive modifications to the structure, etc to pass American safety standardsfirst. someone should post the article for our European members to start a 20 page thread about. wish I could find it.

Does this Help?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2301271#post2301271

 

[Sniffs]

not quite, tho it's definetly nice to have that info. I meant america's weird moratorium on foreign market inports younger than 25 years (which currently means you could only bring an 81 into the US without having to pay several large for a conversion, and only on the gov'ts approved list.)

the Govt definition on an automobile explains a lot, though. and americans wonder why we scratch our heads at the non american attitude?

 

[niky]

Well, technically I couldn't justify spending anything on a Civic Si, it's just more desireable to me than the GTI.

I'll be damned if I ever spend my money on another Wrong Wheel Drive car for myself, ever again.

Nice compliment... but did you really have to mention the words "wrong wheel drive" twice in two posts? If you hate FWD so much, you should just put it in your sig. Saves the trouble of typing it over and over and over again in every single thread.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think hes gone a bit overboard with the whole "Wrong Wheel Drive" as well. Granted, it isn't my pick of performance in my automobiles, but it isn't THAT bad...

 

[Onikaze]

Ahem, it is that bad.

Ford briefly considered making what turned into the Ford Probe, the next Mustang. It's one thing when the car is FWD to begin with, it's another when they desecrate a nameplate with crap (Impala) like that.

I view Honda as an Unfortunate waste of engineering brilliance, all the work they spend fixing whats wrong with WWD handling, they could have been out BMWing BMW.

 

[Poverty]

I like FWD as long as its not a audi because quattro is available.

 

[YSSMAN]

...AWD was a "necessity" because it was cheaper to produce, safer, and more fuel efficent than RWD cars at the time. Now that things have changed in Detroit, Deutchland, and Japan, the rules have allowed for the resurgence of RWD cars in the marketplace.

FWD cars have their place in the market as affordable cars that most people will never notice the difference between them and RWD. Americans are still "convinced" for the most part that FWD power is better, but that opinion is chaning with our generation.

I just ask that you get over this whole stigma against them. Granted that I would generally pick a RWD car over a FWD model, for the most part, I'm okay with FWD power. It's just the way things are, but things are changing as well.

 

[Onikaze]

Hey, I think FWD cars are awesome for their purpose.

Being cheap to manufacture, and cheap to buy.

When they are being priced in the $30-$40 range, there is something severely wrong.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, they do it because refinement levels are pretty high on some of the FWD models. People are obviously willing to pay $40,000 for a Camry-based Lexus ES350, so why not have Buick build a $40,000 V8-powered Lucerne, and Lincoln build a Japanese-based luxury sedan?

They read the market, and for the most part, the market wants luxurious FWD and AWD cars. Granted, there are plenty of people who want RWD performance as well, and thus they are going to be shopping at GM, Chrysler NA, BMW, Mercedes, etc.

 

[Jay]

Not to meantion on these Luxury buses (where handling performance doesnt matter much) you can have a flat floor (or almost in some cases) and more leg room due to a extended and wider foot well with FWD.

 

[YSSMAN]

Exactly!

Old folks don't worry about taking a corner above 20 MPH, so why does it matter to them if their cars are FWD, AWD, or RWD? Someone like my Grandfather would care because he likes to drive quickly on occasion, thus he has considered a Mercedes E-Class several times, along with the 300C, but on the opposite side of the page, his best friend won't do anything RWD with a sedan, as he has been driving FWD Buicks for the last 10 or more years.

Its a matter of necessity versus practicality, and for most people, practicality wins. It isn't necessary for them to have BMW performance in their Toyota Avalon, they just want a big, rather roomy sedan to cruise to Florida in so they can die.

 

[Onikaze]

"The best way to survive an unavoidable collision is to redefine unavoidable"~BMW 5 Series commercial.

FWD handling is crap in all but the most impractical models (Civic Type R, Mini Cooper S, etc), so you're hindering your ability to avoid an accident, deliberately.

"Ok, I'm gonna throw baseballs at you, and you can dodge as best you can, but you have to walk around on your hands."

 

[Jay]

so you're hindering your ability to avoid an accident, deliberately.

"Ok, I'm gonna throw baseballs at you, and you can dodge as best you can, but you have to walk around on your hands."

You could say the same with buying trucks and SUV's.