New GT40=Viper Killer

[Deathhawk]

Originally posted by Monsoon
the viper and the ford gt40 aren't even in the same class. comparing them is like comparing a nissan sentra to a toyota supra. the gt40 is more in a class up against the mclaren, or other production-type racers imo.

Ah no.

 

[B Campbell]

Originally posted by Monsoon
the viper and the ford gt40 aren't even in the same class. comparing them is like comparing a nissan sentra to a toyota supra. the gt40 is more in a class up against the mclaren, or other production-type racers imo.

Why do you say this? The only major difference between the cars (as far as we know) is the drivetrain layout. They have engine pumping out very similar numbers, and the weight and suspension details are pretty similar as well.

It seems that the price will be the deciding factor. If the GT40 falls in the 50-80k price range, it and the Viper will be very nicely stacked against each other.

I'd like to hear how you would compare the GT40 and the McLaren F1.

 

[Monsoon]

for starters they are both mr. but, to add to the list, the viper wasn't made to re-create the le'mans victor now was it? the gt40 was built to do different things than a viper. i see no reason why you can compare a viper to a gt40 because they have similar "specs."

i'm curious to see what the gt40 will do on the track. i wonder how much of it was brought back by ford. it better not be made to be a garage queen.

 

[masonholmes]

and one more time, ALRIGHTYTHEN

 

[Monsoon]

i'm not going to argue about it, i just don't think they should be compared. compare the gt40 to a ferrari, a mclaren, vector, whatever, but not to the viper.

 

[Deathhawk]

This whole conversation has been about MERITS, not nostalgic value... There also have been vipers racing enduro and lemans.

 

[Deathhawk]

Originally posted by Monsoon
i'm not going to argue about it, i just don't think they should be compared. compare the gt40 to a ferrari, a mclaren, vector, whatever, but not to the viper.

Why not compair the two? Thats what this whole thread has been about from the beginning.

If you don't feel comfortable compairing two vehicles, there is a topic that deals with just the Gt-40.

It has been quite interesting and informative hearing others opinions on the matter.

 

[Zero]

GT-40 is estimated to cost 100,000 bucks, the Viper will probably stay around the usual 80k.

@Monsoon:
Um, Mclaren will kill the GT-40, case closed.
Most ferrari's will be competative to the GT-40 but the F-50, F-40 will beat it.
The Viper is the best car to compare it to due to the similiar stats between the 2 cars. Also if Ford makes the GT40 and it enters the ALMS or any enduro, first the Oreca 2003 Viper will probably beat it due to Oreca's history of success. Let's not forget that Oreca is basically designing the new Viper, so maybe the Viper might beat the GT-40.

 

[Monsoon]

i guess compare cars by more than just their horsepower figures. my appologies.

 

[B Campbell]

Originally posted by Monsoon
for starters they are both mr. but, to add to the list, the viper wasn't made to re-create the le'mans victor now was it? the gt40 was built to do different things than a viper. i see no reason why you can compare a viper to a gt40 because they have similar "specs."

i'm curious to see what the gt40 will do on the track. i wonder how much of it was brought back by ford. it better not be made to be a garage queen.

The Mazda AZ-1, the Toyota MR Spyder, and the Porsche Boxter all share the mid-engined layout. However one is a Kei-car, one is an economy roadster, and one is a sports car. They really have nothing in common.

The GT-40, if it goes into production, will fill a void at Ford. It will compete for dollars against the Viper and Corvette, the US's two other sports cars. It will not be designed to be a supercar, built for specific customers on a pre-pay basis, like the McLaren F1 or the Porsche 959.

It is not only the specs that are similar between the two cars. But the fact that they are similar is not an accident. Again, if this car is produced, it's entire concept and design places it straight against the other high-dollar sports cars from US manufacturers, definately not supercars.

 

[Monsoon]

Originally posted by B Campbell

The GT-40, if it goes into production, will fill a void at Ford. It will compete for dollars against the Viper and Corvette, the US's two other sports cars. It will not be designed to be a supercar, built for specific customers on a pre-pay basis, like the McLaren F1 or the Porsche 959.

then why not beef up a mustang, or make another car that way? they aren't making a ford gt40 to steal money from dodge because they have the viper, that'd be silly and a waste of money. i just think ford wants to have a exotic car like this to call their own. they had the chance with the gt90, but it never made it. i dunno though.

 

[masonholmes]

if they can only keep the rust gremlins out of the production line. Oh, sorry, that just slips out somtimes just playin..

 

[Deathhawk]

Originally posted by Monsoon


then why not beef up a mustang, or make another car that way? they aren't making a ford gt40 to steal money from dodge because they have the viper, that'd be silly and a waste of money. i just think ford wants to have a exotic car like this to call their own. they had the chance with the gt90, but it never made it. i dunno though.

They HAVE beefed up a mustang. It dosn't work. A new model, with a DESIGNATION to fight the viper and corvette. The mustang has done EVERYTHING! IT has been an econobox in the 80's with its four cylender engine, a lady's car around it's conception, and lately, a more powerful sportscar... But thats all it will ever be. People arn't nessesarily looking for a huge horsepower monster that costs an arm and a leg to insure. Lots are looking for a well ballenced car that allows massive acceleration into corners, with the ability to take that corner with controll. This would reqire a MASSIVE change to what the mustang is, chassis wise, and layout wise. If they are going to do this, they might as well strap a new body on as well. It will attract new intrest, as well as new customers, probably lots of mustang owners. The same wouldn't nessesarily apply for a new "breed" of mustang. Car and Driver wouln't have a 4 page front page article dedicated to a new mustang. But they would do that for a classic le-mans hero that will be revamped ad restyled for current production.

And this sort of "stealing" money from other companies happens all the time. The SUV becomes popular, everyone flocks to build one. Midrange sports supercars used to be popular (a la Ford Probe, Dodge Stealth, Chev Camero) The market died, everyone left..

Also, remember that the GT-90 was a CONCEPT, not a planned production. It was a design on paper. There was no prototype to my knowledge, and very little media attention.

Also, not that the GT-40 may not go into production for a while, (like two or three years) becuase of the current economic state. There has been a ressesion due for the last little while. VW postponed the W12, (which I would really like to see made) becuase of the lack of purcasers in the supercar type market that they would need to justify funding the production of such a car. I think ford will run into the same type of problem... They are making a car to fill a niche that is only occupied by GM and Chrysler, but they need buyers in that niche to be able to sustain the project...

 

[Deathhawk]

Originally posted by masonholmes
if they can only keep the rust gremlins out of the production line. Oh, sorry, that just slips out somtimes just playin..

I won't even dignify that with a reply

 

[B Campbell]

Originally posted by Monsoon


then why not beef up a mustang, or make another car that way? they aren't making a ford gt40 to steal money from dodge because they have the viper, that'd be silly and a waste of money. i just think ford wants to have a exotic car like this to call their own. they had the chance with the gt90, but it never made it. i dunno though.

Chevrolet could easily make a Camaro to fill the spot the Corvette does. Very easily. The reason they don't (even though it would save heaps of money) is because it would still be a Camaro to most people, no matter how fast it is.

The same reason a beefed up Mustang isn't the order of the day. They've done this, you know, produce a killer factory Mustang. The problem is, to most people, it's still a Mustang, which most people assume is just Ford's Camaro.

You're absolutely right when you say Ford wants an exotic car to call thier own. Except it isn't neccessarily exotic. They picked a car with some American Hertitage (even thought it isn't). The GT90 was an exotic car with all kinds of fancy electronic hoohaas and fancy mechanicals, much like other super-concepts of the early '90s. The GT40 concept is pretty down to earth, and is built much the same way we could see a production car built.

In any case, we're probably arguing for no reason, because I seriously doubt this will ever make production. The US auto industry is in a real slump right now, and makers have to work on making their current, entry-level products appealing to boost sales. Of course, it is well-known that if you cater to the wealthy, you'll always have customers, no matter what the economy is like. But one car out of a lineup will not save a company.

 

[B Campbell]

Originally posted by Deathhawk


Also, remember that the GT-90 was a CONCEPT, not a planned production. It was a design on paper. There was no prototype to my knowledge, and very little media attention.

I'm pretty sure there was a prototype, at least one. By this I mean a working model that could be driven, instead of the 'shells' you see often at auto shows. I actually have a 1:18 scale die cast of the GT90, in fact.

 

[Talentless]

I have a Road and Track issue with an article on the GT90. I believe I sent Jordan the text of it some time ago.

 

[Deathhawk]

Ok, I had never seen one, I had only seen pictures...

 

[Deathhawk]

Originally posted by B Campbell


In any case, we're probably arguing for no reason, because I seriously doubt this will ever make production.

Actually, I find it great fun to discuss the two cars, wether or not they ever make it to production dosn't really matter...

 

[Werner Winkels]

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[Werner Winkels]

PS. : That's a nice Photo from the Koenigsegg

So long
Werner

 

[Werner Winkels]

Hello...

Do You know, for a long time, BMW has a matchable Car to the GT 40 !

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So long
Werner

 

[captainkirk]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This is all a matter of opinions. Some here may have heard me boast of the GT-40 before, but here is a brief reminder for these new names to me.

I never knew the GT40 existed until GT2. I looked up information about this car on the Internet upon discovery. I finished that game, and kinda got away from GT40 fantasies due to school. But I started up GT3 a couple of months ago I think, so the fantasy emerges again. But this time it doesn't go away. The icing on the cake was seeing the Detroit Auto Show highlights and seeing the GT40. I had no clue that it was going to be there, but as soon as I got a glance of that beautiful yellow/black GT40, I knew exactly what it was.

I would love to have this car. Even having one from the 60's would be so heart-stopping. Anyway, about what I see here. I think simply that the new GT40 is a step-up from the Mustang. Just like you think of Camaro, then Corvette. It used to be Stealth, then Viper. Different price ranges, different performances, sometimes even different markets.

This thought of mine is just based on the big 3 car company names in the US; GM, Ford, and Dodge/Chrysler.

Chevrolet...............Camaro............Corvette
Dodge....................Stealth.............Viper
Ford.......................Mustang...........?? nothing

That is what immediately comes to my mind. I know the Stealth is no longer produced from what I know. Of course that doesn't play in the Mitsubishi 3000GT or Eclipse, or any other car makers' sports cars, but this is how I see it.

As far as heritage goes, the GT40 was built for the LeMans back in the 60's. It is a supercar on a certain level to me, many different cars are. I am not a big expert at all this, but I am calling it like I see it. I view the Viper as a supercar. The Corvette, supercar also. They all have certain things about them that classify them as supercars to me. It could be horsepower, speed, acceleration, racing status (LeMans, road courses, etc.), or simply styling and pricing.

Whatever you want to call it, I like the GT40. I am not even a real fan of Ford, but this is one Ford I want in my driveway one day. It can be the new one, or even a kitcar that I build myself. That is my $10.00 on this subject. This really isn't 2 cents since I typed like 2 pages worth. Hope someone can see this, and make any compare/contrast they wish to make. I am open for a great conversation about this. Thank you for your patience and time to read all this. Good day!

 

[DesertZero]

Originally posted by ZeroCool85


@Deathhawk:
So me a Saleen that can beat a Viper and I'll show you a beaten man. :burnout:

I'm not Deathhawk, but I can tell you that the last of the S-351's(495hp)would whip on any of the older 400hp Vipers and surely an average driven GTS of the current variety.

Oops on your part.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Nick T
I'm not Deathhawk, but I can tell you that the last of the S-351's(495hp)would whip on any of the older 400hp Vipers and surely an average driven GTS of the current variety.

Oops on your part.

The older Vipers with 400 hp arent in the same class as the S-351, new ACR's and GTS's are the 450 hp Viper GTS models can whip a Saleen S-351

 

[Zero]

Saleen S-351
Price: $55,990
Miles Per Gallon: --/-- mpg
Curb Weight: ---- lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/RWD
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual
Engine
Type: Supercharged V8
Displacement: 5800 cc
Horsepower: 495 bhp @ 5400 rpm
Torque: 490 lb-ft @ 3500 rpm
Redline: ---- rpm
Performance
0-60 mph: 4.5 sec
0-100 mph: --.- sec
Quarter Mile: 12.7 sec @ 122 mph
Skidpad: .93g
Top Speed: 172 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: --- ft
Slalom Speed: --.- mph

1998 Viper GTS
Base Price: $68,000
Number Built: ----
Layout: Front-Engine/RWD
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual
Dimensions:
Curb Weight: 3420 lbs
Height: 43.95 inches
Width: 75.7 inches
Wheelbase: 96.2 inches
Front/Rear Track: F: 59.6 inches
R: 60.6 inches
Engine:
Type: V10
Displacement: 7990 cc
Bore: 4.0 inches
Stroke: 3.88 inches
Valvetrain: OHV, 2 Valves/Cylinder
Horsepower: 450 bhp @ 5200 rpm
Torque: 490 lb-ft @ 3700 rpm
Rev Limit: 6200 rpm
Performance:
0-60 mph: 4.0 sec
0-100 mph: 9.6 sec
1/4 mile: 12.0 sec @ 122 mph
Top Speed: 192 mph
Lateral Acceleration: 1.00g
Braking 60-0: 122 ft
Slalom Speed: 72.4 mph
Gas Mileage City/Highway: 12/20
Colors:
Exterior Colors: Blue/White Stripes, Viper Red, Silver
Interior Colors: Black

Same model year and yet the Viper beats the S-351 in the performance catorgories

 

[DesertZero]

LOL@12.7 for the Saleen.

Try 12.0 with a decent driver and mid 11's with Drag Radials. Someone couldn't drive well that day. C'mon? 495hp vs 450hp? .7 difference in the ¼ mi? I don't think so.

Why are you talking about classes? You are the one that said to show you a Saleen that would beat a Viper. I did. Do you want to change what you said? Would you like to change your statement to:

Theoretically said by ZeroCool

Show me a Saleen that can beat a Viper GTS-R and I'll show you a beaten man. :burnout:

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Nick T
LOL@12.7 for the Saleen.

Try 12.0 with a decent driver and mid 11's with Drag Radials. Someone couldn't drive well that day. C'mon? 495hp vs 450hp? .7 difference in the ¼ mi? I don't think so.

Why are you talking about classes? You are the one that said to show you a Saleen that would beat a Viper. I did. Do you want to change what you said? Would you like to change your statement to:

Well the Viper has the better engine and yes 450hp can beat a 495hp S-351, um lets compare V10 vs Supercharged V8 which is better, by popular vote its the V10, what a coincidence. Any viper can beat a Mustang, hell a 1998 model GTS-R could beat the Saleen S-7R No Mustang/Saleen can beat a Viper ok it took the C5r Corvettes 2 years in ALMS to beat the Vipers and no Saleen will beat a viper case closed your a moron

 

[Zero]

I guess that shut you up, no Stang will ever beat a Viper, No S7 or S7r will beat Vipers either. Vipers are kings and the GT40 will be the only competition to any Dodge Viper.

 

[Deathhawk]

Actually the saleen mustangs were pretty dang quick... (check my mfg. supercar list for details) Of course, that is compairing a heavily modified car to a stock one....