NEW Land Rover Defender!

  • Thread starter Danny
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See, with the Jimny, Suzuki has shown that it's possible to keep the bones of the car simple, yet update the looks in a way that pleases new buyers and not alienate old ones. It still has the same "faux-Jeep" cues as the Samurai, the round lights, the five-slot grille, the suggestion of a half-hardtop (which is because a half-hardtop is actually available), but looks like it belongs in this century, not the 19th.... and yet underneath it's incredibly simple. Twin live-axle, switchable 4WD and an uncomplicated yet modern EFI engine. They've also updated the suspension a number of times to improve ride and stability, yet have retained the off-road friendly live-axle set-up.

It's not a great car... cramped as hell, rides horribly, and is quite underpowered, but it's one of the few modern "compact" (subcompact) SUVs that's actually an SUV.

Quite excited... I just got word that I'll be able to do a short test-drive article on one within the next week. :D

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The next Defender will definitely have to be "off-road-friendly", but it will also need to be fairly simple to fulfill the mission objectives of being rugged and cheap.

Hell... maybe this new Land Rover company can be the first to make the humble MacPherson strut truly work off-road... :D
 
Just wondering is their a great off road vehicle like the old Defender and True H1 or old school Bronco now days? Like I'd like to have a cool off road vehicle with a V8 that gets the job done but I feel like this one will fall short of its legacy. Also I'm not a massive LR fan, just due to the casual drivers that I see with them. They never seem to use them for what they're intended.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Just wondering is their a great off road vehicle like the old Defender and True H1 or old school Bronco now days? Like I'd like to have a cool off road vehicle with a V8 that gets the job done but I feel like this one will fall short of its legacy. Also I'm not a massive LR fan, just due to the casual drivers that I see with them. They never seem to use them for what they're intended.
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Funnily enough the Defender is an off-roader that doesn't attract much animosity in the UK mainly because they are used off road, by green-laners or farmers etc.

That said, all current Land Rover products, including the Evoque surprisingly, are quite capable off road. The difference is that modern ones can handle the on-road stuff pretty well too.

I think the modern Wrangler variants are still supposed to be pretty good off road, as are the Toyota Land Cruiser and Nissan Pathfinder, though due to their hugeness they're not as good in tight spaces.

To be honest, Land Rover won't make the mistake of not making the Defender one of the best off-roaders on the market, but if it's going to disappoint you it'll be because it's highly unlikely to be offered with a V8.
 
niky
800px-1998_Suzuki_Jimny_01.jpg

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The very car the James May used, It had a unquie 3 wheel drive system.
 
homeforsummer
Funnily enough the Defender is an off-roader that doesn't attract much animosity in the UK mainly because they are used off road, by green-laners or farmers etc.

That said, all current Land Rover products, including the Evoque surprisingly, are quite capable off road. The difference is that modern ones can handle the on-road stuff pretty well too.

I think the modern Wrangler variants are still supposed to be pretty good off road, as are the Toyota Land Cruiser and Nissan Pathfinder, though due to their hugeness they're not as good in tight spaces.

To be honest, Land Rover won't make the mistake of not making the Defender one of the best off-roaders on the market, but if it's going to disappoint you it'll be because it's highly unlikely to be offered with a V8.
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Thing with the Wrangler is that it's a solid-axle vehicle, which helps a TON when it comes to Articulation, especially after lifting the vehicle - the angle of the axle forces the lower wheel down further than it otherwise would be. LC and Pathfinder are kind of competing with the Range Rover anyway, the Land Cruiser more than anything.

I'm not sure why I'd be disappointed that this vehicle wouldn't be offered with a V8, though. It'd be more than enough with a torquey inline 6, but a V6 would work as well. I just need TORQUE. :P

That, and the ability to give it about 3-4 inches of lift. So I can fit Interco Super Swampers under it. note to Land Rover: Long A-Arms.
 
Jim Prower
I'm not sure why I'd be disappointed that this vehicle wouldn't be offered with a V8, though. It'd be more than enough with a torquey inline 6, but a V6 would work as well. I just need TORQUE. :P
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Was talking to LMSCorvetteGT2 with the "disappointed" comment, as he said he'd want a V8 :P

A V6 with a turbo could be likely if they sell it in the States, or even a torquey turbocharged 4. Hell, if you're incredibly lucky, it might not only reach the U.S, but also reach the U.S. with one of the turbodiesels it'll be offered with over here. Then you can have your torque and economy.

@Grayfox - May used one of the earlier cars in the Jimny family, an SJ413. Pretty similar cars underneath but May's car was a bit more... tired, thanks to its age.

I've actually always had a soft spot for the Jimny. It's like the 4WD equivalent of the MX5 - bit of a girly, hairdressery image, but when it comes down to it it's brilliant at what it does. The MX5 is a great sports car, the Jimny is a fantastic off-roader.

Before my MX5 got nicked I was considering buying a cheap Jimny to use over winter so I could put the Mazda in the garage, and then reverse the roles the next summer.

You can get Kei-class Jimnys in Japan. They don't have the extended wheel arches and have narrower tyres, but otherwise the body is identical. Of course, they also have 660cc engines so on a car like the Jimny it's probably barely enough to move it...
 
V6 Turbo works for me as well. I just wouldn't want a n/a V6 like my '07 Tacoma. It was a great truck but I think a little more power would have been nice. Diesel would be another thing I wouldn't mind seeing over here in the states from LR. Either way I'd still be just as happy with it.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
V6 Turbo works for me as well. I just wouldn't want a n/a V6 like my '07 Tacoma. It was a great truck but I think a little more power would have been nice. Diesel would be another thing I wouldn't mind seeing over here in the states from LR. Either way I'd still be just as happy with it.
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Not sure it needs a petrol version at all. The TD4 (160) and SD4 (190) diesels should be clean enough for the US I'm sure. By then I imagine JLR (PSA) engines will have moved on another generation so expect more mpg and bhp.
 
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Mike0105
Not sure it needs a petrol version at all. The TD4 (160) and SD4 (190) diesels should be clean enough for the US I'm sure. By then I imagine JLR (PSA) engines will have moved on another generation so expect more mpg and bhp.
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That's why I said I wouldn't mind seeing the Diesels over here, most people though in the U.S. tend to be turned off by it though it is a better choice in the end (to me).
 
Danny
No No No!

Call it the 'small Suzuki'.

Jimny is a stupid name.

:grumpy:
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Tell that to GMC...

The Japanese also get the smaller turbo diesel... Non-direct injection, so it should be frugal AND capable of dealing with poor fuel conditions in the wild.

Funny... The American market hates small displacement, but they can somehow accept slow cars, as long as they have big motors. I seem to recall they took the Landcruiser with a straight six... That was an absolute turf with the auto...

If the Defender is light enough, they can get away with a turbo four. Then have a naturally aspirated six and/or big diesel for off-roaders.

I have yet to test the JLR V8 diesel, but if it's anything like their V6, it ought to be wild...
 
niky
Funny... The American market hates small displacement, but they can somehow accept slow cars, as long as they have big motors. I seem to recall they took the Landcruiser with a straight six... That was an absolute turf with the auto...
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That always amuses me too. The 2.4 litre, non turbo, 4-speed auto PT Cruiser I hired out in California was generally a nice enough car but for the utterly horrendous performance, which seemed no quicker than my 60bhp, 1.3 litre Ford Fiesta at the time. It wasn't even like the Fiesta would need to be thrashed more either, as every request for more power in the PTC resulted in the revs soaring noisily and no real extra performance being granted.

As for the Landcruiser, the modern ones have quite a nice turn of speed. My ex girlfriend's parents had two of the things, a 2nd gen Prado and a 3rd gen Prado (current model is the 4th gen). The former was a 3.4 litre V6 with auto, the latter a 4.0 V6 with auto. The newer one moved quite nicely. The older one was a bit scary as the torque converter was on the way out and was really reluctant to shift either up or down - not good on the roads of Dubai... the later car was definitely a nicer one to drive!

We're really spoiled with engine and transmission combos these days.

I think one benefit of the new Defender will be an auto gearbox option, actually, which with modern technology most people now admit is better than a manual when it comes to heavy off-roading. Modern autos with electronic control can meter out power far more easily and accurately than you can with a manual 'box.
 
It just seems wrong to me to have an auto in a Defender. A Range Rover or Disco yes because they will mostly be used on the road and maybe occasional off roading, but a Defender should be more mechanical to me. Computers should be minimal as it should be abused, left in a barn and still work fine.
 
I think if we mirror the Jeep Wrangler, we'd be fine - Small, maneuverable, torquey V6, low-range 4WD, easy to lift without halfshaft and travel issues, simple, rugged interior. Unfortunately, this doesn't fit with Land Rover's buying group in the U.S., who will expect wood trim and leather seats. They could probably go with a smaller engine as gas prices and children leaving home put SUV buyers on a diet, but they're going to want something that'll look chic on the cul-de-sac, not offroad like us.

In central IL, Offroad is the domain of mid '90s to early '80s fullsize trucks with huge tires, with the occasional 3/4- to 1-ton diesel thrown in, and lots of mud. Land Rover buyers scoff at such ruffians. Personally, I'd happily hang with 'em in a Defender. Sadly, the people who actually can afford to buy from Jaguar/Land Rover of Peoria wouldn't see things the same way.

Land Rovers are bought by people who manage over people who go offroad.
 
Seriously, will the Landy enthusiasts be pleased with ANY redesign of their beloved Defender? I quite like this concept. It seems like a successful attempt at retaining the Defender's spirit in a modern design.
 
Mike0105
It just seems wrong to me to have an auto in a Defender. A Range Rover or Disco yes because they will mostly be used on the road and maybe occasional off roading, but a Defender should be more mechanical to me. Computers should be minimal as it should be abused, left in a barn and still work fine.
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The Defender is also about whatever works best, and modern autos are better for off-roading than manual transmissions.

It doesn't even have to be that refined or have 8 speeds or flappy paddles or anything, it just needs to be tough enough and to work well.

If anything, they should take a leaf out of the U.S. manufacturers' book, where unlike in European and Japanese cars, the auto boxes aren't even particularly expensive to rebuild and don't go wrong after ten years.
 
homeforsummer
The Defender is also about whatever works best, and modern autos are better for off-roading than manual transmissions.

It doesn't even have to be that refined or have 8 speeds or flappy paddles or anything, it just needs to be tough enough and to work well.

If anything, they should take a leaf out of the U.S. manufacturers' book, where unlike in European and Japanese cars, the auto boxes aren't even particularly expensive to rebuild and don't go wrong after ten years.
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Uh, unless they're the Ram Cummins tranny. Horrid thing, that. It's why they still offer that truck with a manual gearbox.

Granted, I doubt it'd need a transmission that can handle 700 ft-lbs of diesel torque, but...
 
homeforsummer
That always amuses me too. The 2.4 litre, non turbo, 4-speed auto PT Cruiser I hired out in California was generally a nice enough car but for the utterly horrendous performance, which seemed no quicker than my 60bhp, 1.3 litre Ford Fiesta at the time. It wasn't even like the Fiesta would need to be thrashed more either, as every request for more power in the PTC resulted in the revs soaring noisily and no real extra performance being granted.
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That's not unique to the domestic market ones...

I think part of the anti-auto feeling is down to feeling that the Defender has always been a no-nonsense, repair-at-home-with-a-hammer kind of car. Which is presumably why there's still a Td5 in it rather than one of the diesels Ford stuck in the S Type. Then again, I don't suppose a basic auto is considerably more difficult to fix than a manual in reality - it's just y'know, different.
 
Jondot
hen again, I don't suppose a basic auto is considerably more difficult to fix than a manual in reality - it's just y'know, different.
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An auto is useless off-road, imo. I once drove a Range Rover auto through deep mud to help tow a cow out of a ditch, it was a horrible experience, the car kept thinking it knew which gear was best when it plainly didn't.
 
Turbo
New, production spec Land Rover Defender set to be released sometime in 2018, and no concept will be shown before the release.

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/12/land-rover-is-scared-of-chinese-clones.html
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Given that Mercedes is launching the new G-Class, which looks nearly identical to the G-Wagen, but has a new chassis and somehow meets current EU pedestrian safety regulations, I wouldn't be surprised if the new Defender looks like an evolution of the old one. If it ain't broke....
 
It'll be what the Discovery should have been and I fully expect die hards to bemoan the fact it isn't like the old one, whilst being way more off road capable. It's nice when luddites, sorry, purists get annoyed.
 
It's currently testing in MOAB and a Motor Trend journalist has taken a lot of pictures of it







Fully independent rear suspension



It looks really stubby



They still have the original mule driving around
 

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