New PMC Comp.!! Theme You Have The Most Interest In! Hurry Vote Now!!

[GrumpEone]

Actually the old Photoshop comp used to allow three entries, although they would still be separate on the poll. After all, we are voting on the pictures, not the artists.

I like the idea of not having judges, but it really comes down to whether or not you want to spend that much time making the poll. It's a lot of annoying coding and since it posts the thread before the poll is completed, you get a lot of people asking where the poll is (super annoying).

Anyway I hope you eventually get a comp running that keeps people's interest. Like I said, now may not be the best time, but you have a lot of good ideas.

Yes, we are voting on pictures, but I want to bring a more realistic format. In real Photography comps, I understand they ask for like 50-100 shots, and pick the best out of the lot. Still if you vote for your favorite shot, there is no problem, because in the end the artist gets the accolades anyway. Plus if you had 3 entries for everyone, you could have upwards around 30-50 voting options, which would get monotonous quick, you'd spend more time scrolling, than comparing photos. Also, without the Artist, there is no Art.

As I understand, making the poll is mostly copy & paste, and though may be a little annoying, it shouldn't take too long. But I know it's not as tough as putting together a Season long Football Pool in Excel (tracking stats), with 60-70 entrants a week, which I have done for 3 years now.

I know that entries are little down, from when I first came around, but a good comp may just spark interest again, like LdS' new comp has gotten quite a following and turn-out.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Actually the old Photoshop comp used to allow three entries, although they would still be separate on the poll. After all, we are voting on the pictures, not the artists.

I like the idea of not having judges, but it really comes down to whether or not you want to spend that much time making the poll. It's a lot of annoying coding and since it posts the thread before the poll is completed, you get a lot of people asking where the poll is (super annoying).

Anyway I hope you eventually get a comp running that keeps people's interest. Like I said, now may not be the best time, but you have a lot of good ideas.

I've had my own personal way around the time delay between thread and poll since I took over H2H (back when it was still Mnfr). Just round up all the code for the poll options in a Notepad file prior to posting the thread. Set up the options for the poll, post, and then quickly fill in the options with some alt+tabbing and ctrl+c/v. H2H usually takes a tiny bit longer as there has to be a delay between posting threads, but take a look at the 2.0 Poll; it usually is up within a minute or two of the actual thread.

...

Interest is a lot less nowadays. We struggle to get 10 entries, but look back at the beginnings of PMC, 2.0, and even H2H. Threads would last longer than 10 pages, and entries hovered around the 100 mark. And looking at just the past year, this isn't the first time someone has posted a poll about starting a new comp. And they follow the same trend; lots of interest, lots of gung-ho positive "do it!" responses, but after a few weeks, the competition fizzles. What exactly is the point in starting one for two or three weeks? Why do you just have to run one?

Oh, and you may want to tone down the "I'm older, so I know best" attitude, you won't end up with a lot of supporters. The fact is the majority of people around here are in their teens. These are video games. Hell, I've been playing GT for the past 9 years, from the age of 12. I took part in (probably) the first onGTP, racing (and winning) against guys over twice my age (I was 14). I've had GT4 pay for my university tuition for a year. There are plenty of guys around here who are younger than me, who are just as mature, and know this game's ins and outs. Ironically, it probably comes from the fact us youngin's can put more time in the game, but that's not important.

 

[GrumpEone]

I've had my own personal way around the time delay between thread and poll since I took over H2H (back when it was still Mnfr). Just round up all the code for the poll options in a Notepad file prior to posting the thread. Set up the options for the poll, post, and then quickly fill in the options with some alt+tabbing and ctrl+c/v. H2H usually takes a tiny bit longer as there has to be a delay between posting threads, but take a look at the 2.0 Poll; it usually is up within a minute or two of the actual thread.

...

Interest is a lot less nowadays. We struggle to get 10 entries, but look back at the beginnings of PMC, 2.0, and even H2H. Threads would last longer than 10 pages, and entries hovered around the 100 mark. And looking at just the past year, this isn't the first time someone has posted a poll about starting a new comp. And they follow the same trend; lots of interest, lots of gung-ho positive "do it!" responses, but after a few weeks, the competition fizzles. What exactly is the point in starting one for two or three weeks? Why do you just have to run one?

Oh, and you may want to tone down the "I'm older, so I know best" attitude, you won't end up with a lot of supporters. The fact is the majority of people around here are in their teens. These are video games. Hell, I've been playing GT for the past 9 years, from the age of 12. I took part in (probably) the first onGTP, racing (and winning) against guys over twice my age (I was 14). I've had GT4 pay for my university tuition for a year. There are plenty of guys around here who are younger than me, who are just as mature, and know this game's ins and outs. Ironically, it probably comes from the fact us youngin's can put more time in the game, but that's not important.

I think you quoted the wrong person for most of your reply; I had thought of the Notepad solution too.

You mis-read what I said, I simply said that if the comp dies in a couple of weeks, so be it. Then I would definately have my answer. But then again the Comp could take off, and lead to a snowball effect, where the competitions start thriving again. And did you think that maybe the reason those 'new' comps fizzled, is because of all the flack one gets for trying to bring something new to the Forum, a new style to the comps, or a better way to run it?? Everything, and anything can be improved upon, under the right circumstances.

I never took an "I'm older than you, I know best" attitude. I respect the fact that the majority of 'Gamers' are btwn 10-20 years old, and that I'm actually one of the few 30+ around here. But I have issue with some arrogant 16 year-old, feels he needs to tell me about 'Real Life', when in actually he has no clue what he is talking about, and hasn't experienced real life. Sure when I was his age I thought I knew everything as well, but you live and learn, and realize you didn't know everything like you thought you did at 16. I give everyone respect right off the bat, regardless of age, until the time one shows themself un-deserving of that respect.

And I'm sure your better than I am in the game, fact is youth carries some definite advantages in gaming, better reflexes, better sight, and better hand-eye coordination, these are all things you usually start to lose the older you get.

Also the thing that is disturbing about GTP (and most forums), is the amount of word-twisting and mis-quoting that goes on. I find myself constantly defending myself, for merely trying to bring some more competitive fun to this Forum. And mainly from just 3-4 ppl, who jump on the non-points of a post, rather than the points.

And why am I defending myself to you??? You couldn't even be bothered to vote against new comps, but you seem pretty opinionated about it.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Heh. There, voted. Do you really need one extra number? As you said, it's pretty obvious my stance on the matter. And I quoted exactly who I meant to.

Certain comps fizzle out because they deviate too far from what the average gallery person on here does to their pics. And if I saw any of the poll options bringing "something new to the Forum", I'd vote for it. None of them do it. They are all just more specific themes we've already had.

The Rally competition has re-started a handful of times, allowing either PMC, or 2.0, and sometimes even going no-limits. But when you limit yourself to a certain type of vehicle, the comp gets stale quickly.

The Photoshop competition has the same patchy history. Fact is, most people don't want to dedicate a day to fiddling with Photoshop to match some of the very talented people here. Or, on the other hand; people who aren't as proficient with PS don't want to enter something half-assed. That's why I hardly entered.

I didn't mis-read anything. It has been proven time and again that the more specific the overall limitations of the competition are, the less long-lived it will be. The CCCL comp is technically an exception; it's specific, but the amount of possibilities for each theme are basically endless. I find it wholly unrealistic for someone to think a rehashed comp can single-handedly revive a forum dedicated to a three-year old game. Unless you've got free copies of the final build of GT5, don't expect people to come rushing back here. Especially for what will amount to just a more-specific version of a current competition.

 

[Nicknamealguem]

I never took an "I'm older than you, I know best" attitude.

Hey MM, why don't you worry about yourself, I am not inclined to listen to what a 16 year old, tells me to do with my time.

??????

Also (my case) just expressed my opinion about those competitions, you don’t seem to accept them just because I voted no, or I am underage. I said more and less what Slip said, but in other words. Maybe a bit more abrasive, I don’t know, I am not English native, so, sometimes I can’t express well, but the same idea is there - Specific competitions die very easily, and there are enough competitions around (6/7).

But if you really want to host a competition, considerate the Scenery one. It looks to be one of the competitions that would last a bit more long (I would say between 5/7 weeks, maybe more, maybe less&#8230, and it seems to have some interest.

If you want I can help you with some rules, banners, and if you want some information about the poll system, you can P.M. me.

 

[alexwrc]

Crap, I don't know discuss in english

Salu2.alexwrc

 

[GrumpEone]

Heh. There, voted. Do you really need one extra number? As you said, it's pretty obvious my stance on the matter. And I quoted exactly who I meant to.

Thanks for your vote, anyway yes I need another number, that is the purpose of a poll.
If you quoted the correct person, then why was the majority of your post obviously aimed at me?? Or were you just too lazy to multi-quote (you know, that little green button at the bottom right, and I know you know).

....poll options bringing "something new to the Forum", I'd vote for it. None of them do it. They are all just more specific themes we've already had.

The poll is designed, to find out where the interest lies, If I do create a new Comp, it will not follow the exact same rules/ structure as existing comps. The exsisting comps referenced in the poll, are to find out if the majority prefer a more or less restrictive format. Since these exsisting comps are known, it makes a good reference point. Like I said many times this poll is to find where the interest lies, and if there is enough interest, to go further.

The Photoshop competition has the same patchy history. Fact is, most people don't want to dedicate a day to fiddling with Photoshop to match some of the very talented people here. Or, on the other hand; people who aren't as proficient with PS don't want to enter something half-assed. That's why I hardly entered.

If it takes a whole day to put together an entry, your not doing something right, or your way too perfectionistic. Personally I have a lot of fun playing with PS, and I am no where near as talented as some I've seen around here, but I still usually end up with a competitive result. It's not half-assed if it is the peak of your abilities with PS, but each entry should get better.

So what is your point? Don't try, if you think you can't win? If that is your point, then you will never win anything, ever. These comps are not about winning as much as showing off your talents, and seeing others talents.

I didn't mis-read anything.

Judging by you response you did mis-read or mis-understand what I was saying.

It has been proven time and again that the more specific the overall limitations of the competition are, the less long-lived it will be. The CCCL comp is technically an exception; it's specific, but the amount of possibilities for each theme are basically endless.

Why would CCCL be an exception?? It's far more specific than a Rally, Race, etc., then by your own logic, the possibilities of the new comps, too would be almost endless.

I find it wholly unrealistic for someone to think a rehashed comp can single-handedly revive a forum dedicated to a three-year old game.....

You must only read a few posts in a thread before replying, It wouldn't be a re-hashed/ revived comp, it would carry new rules, formats, and structure.

Yet again mis-reading or twisting of words, I never said I would revive GTP, It dosen't need revival, there are plenty of members that I've never seen in GTx/ gaming threads, since there are plenty of threads going on here, on a miriad of topics. I will say it again, and maybe you'll get it this time, I'm hoping that some new comps, will spark a competition revival. Did you get it this time??

??????

Also (my case) just expressed my opinion about those competitions, you don’t seem to accept them just because I voted no, or I am underage. I said more and less what Slip said, but in other words. Maybe a bit more abrasive, I don’t know, I am not English native, so, sometimes I can’t express well, but the same idea is there - Specific competitions die very easily, and there are enough competitions around (6/7).

But if you really want to host a competition, considerate the Scenery one. It looks to be one of the competitions that would last a bit more long (I would say between 5/7 weeks, maybe more, maybe less&#8230, and it seems to have some interest.

If you want I can help you with some rules, banners, and if you want some information about the poll system, you can P.M. me.

I do accept your opinions (and the other 3 who are negative about a new comp), but I do not share your opinions. I'm not too worried about abraisiveness, seeing as I too have a rather abraisive posting style (after all, I am a GrumpEone). And the only comps I see regularly is PMC, Unedited, CCCL, and Driftmode (which is my favorite). I just have the opinion that this forum can do better, have more comps, and maybe even better comps. And if I start a comp, it will not be a revival of a old comp.

And sorry if I was a little overly-abrasive in the PM yesterday, I don't mean any dis-respect.

And I thank you for your reluctant-support, I'm still on the fence on starting a new comp, but If I do, I will definately use you, amongst others, and any other resource to make it as good as it could be.

BTW- Even you ppl who give me negative feedback, I still value your opinions, I just do not share them. And always remember about me, I have an Opinion, and I'm not Afraid to Use it!! lol

 

[dylansan]

No need to get angry. I think you mis-understood a few of Slipz' points, especially about CCCL. Are those themes up there for the whole competition (having to use race cars every week, etc.) or just one week themes? Because I thought you planned on making the entire competition run with those rules, which would die off soon. The CCCL has a changing theme, and although specific, changes every week allowing people to not get bored. Imagine if you had to use the same car and same track every week, and the themes only changed within that specific region? One week you would have a bunch of shots of a Skyline at Tsukuba focusing on zoomed in shots, next week you have a bunch of shots of the Skyline a Tsukuba drifting. Not fun.

Obviously that's not what you're planning, but I'm just explaining Slipz' point.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Thanks for your vote, anyway yes I need another number, that is the purpose of a poll.
If you quoted the correct person, then why was the majority of your post obviously aimed at me?? Or were you just too lazy to multi-quote (you know, that little green button at the bottom right, and I know you know).

See, on forums, it's common practice to use ellipses as a paragraph break to change topics. I figured it would be pretty obvious who it was directed at, and multi-quoting is still relatively new. But sure, I'll do things your way, if it's too complicated.

The poll is designed, to find out where the interest lies, If I do create a new Comp, it will not follow the exact same rules/ structure as existing comps. The exsisting comps referenced in the poll, are to find out if the majority prefer a more or less restrictive format. Since these exsisting comps are known, it makes a good reference point. Like I said many times this poll is to find where the interest lies, and if there is enough interest, to go further.

I fail to see, other than your over-complicated "panel of judges" idea, how you're going to have a comp with different rules and/or structures. Unless it's just for the sake of being different. Perhaps I'll say it again too; this particular sub-forum has been around for a long time. We have got the structure down. This is what works.

If it takes a whole day to put together an entry, your not doing something right, or your way too perfectionistic. Personally I have a lot of fun playing with PS, and I am no where near as talented as some I've seen around here, but I still usually end up with a competitive result. It's not half-assed if it is the peak of your abilities with PS, but each entry should get better.

Spoken like a true Photoshop novice. Go ask some of the vets (Franz, Moglet, Alex) how long they have spent on some of their pieces. For a PMC entry, absolutely, PS work should take no longer than about 2 minutes. For a 2.0, it could take a couple hours. For some of the old Photoshop comps, with themes like Cop Chases or accidents, yes, you could spend a whole day on one, fairly easily.

So what is your point? Don't try, if you think you can't win? If that is your point, then you will never win anything, ever. These comps are not about winning as much as showing off your talents, and seeing others talents.

Haha. No, I have never won anything...

You missed it. Again. I was talking specifically about the Photoshop comp. When there were some serious themes, like the ones I just mentioned, sure, you could go into PS and do a quick colour swap of a car and paste a lightbar on, but there were those out there who spent hours upon hours creating amazing shots that had every detail done. Deny it all you want, some people will see that and their interest will lessen. And a lot of people will get frustrated when the image in their mind can't be reproduced digitally. It happens.

Judging by you response you did mis-read or mis-understand what I was saying.

I could easily assume the same thing.

Why would CCCL be an exception?? It's far more specific than a Rally, Race, etc., then by your own logic, the possibilities of the new comps, too would be almost endless.

How many cars are automatically excluded from CCCL? None. How many are excluded from a comp that will only allow Race Cars? Or Rally Cars? Or Unbuyable cars? CCCL is a very clever reinterpretation of the common comps, because everyone is forced to work with a certain combo for a week, eliminating the sometimes-problem of entries not really following the theme. Same goes for a rally comp in theory, but the combo possibilities are far less. It's simple math. CCCL has more specific themes, but the range of those themes encompasses far more than the other ideas.

You must only read a few posts in a thread before replying, It wouldn't be a re-hashed/ revived comp, it would carry new rules, formats, and structure.

Please, enlighten me on these new rules, formats, and structure, which have so far not been mentioned other than the (again), judge panel idea.

Yet again mis-reading or twisting of words, I never said I would revive GTP, It dosen't need revival, there are plenty of members that I've never seen in GTx/ gaming threads, since there are plenty of threads going on here, on a miriad of topics. I will say it again, and maybe you'll get it this time, I'm hoping that some new comps, will spark a competition revival. Did you get it this time??

Basic reading comprehension. Guess what the Photomode Competitions forum is? A forum. A sub-forum, yes, but guess what, still a forum. No go back and re-read my paragraph. My comment still stands; I doubt a half-baked, regurgitated competition will suddenly ignite a forum that has been on the decline for months.

 

[Slick6]

Trust me, trying to communicate between just one person about which pictures are on the poll is enough work for one week, let alone four. You'll wear yourself out within a couple of months. The way to keep these competitions is as simple and streamline as possible. If you make the rules to open to interpretation you'll have a lot of policing to do, and if you're not clear enough, you'll have tons of questions. Be sure that you do indeed have time for running this competition. I've seen tons come and go and most of the time they detract votes from other programs. If there's enough interest in this, I say go for it, but if nobody else really thinks that it is needed, nobody will put the effort in to participate. I think that the variety of competitions we have now, really do allow everyone to participate. If people weren't sure of entering such a simple one as the PMC, how many do you think are going to be gun-ho to jump in a new competition with more complex rules? I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, but you must understand the whole demographic of this area. Best of luck in your decisions. 👍


EDIT*

I doubt a half-baked, regurgitated competition will suddenly ignite a forum that has been on the decline for months.

As much as I hate to, I have to agree. This like everything else is a periodical type of activity. With GT5 coming out, this forum is going to sink away. It's happened to the GTA forums, the Photoshop forums, and who knows what else. It's sad to see it happen but it does. Maybe start preparing yourself for running a GT5 competition.

 

[GrumpEone]

No need to get angry. I think you mis-understood a few of Slipz' points, especially about CCCL. Are those themes up there for the whole competition (having to use race cars every week, etc.) or just one week themes? Because I thought you planned on making the entire competition run with those rules, which would die off soon. The CCCL has a changing theme, and although specific, changes every week allowing people to not get bored. Imagine if you had to use the same car and same track every week, and the themes only changed within that specific region? One week you would have a bunch of shots of a Skyline at Tsukuba focusing on zoomed in shots, next week you have a bunch of shots of the Skyline a Tsukuba drifting. Not fun.

Obviously that's not what you're planning, but I'm just explaining Slipz' point.

I don't get angry over this, just maybe a little frustrated. Like I was saying to SlipZ, This poll isn't designed to revive any old comp, but rather to see where the interests are, rather more toward Race or Rally, more toward unedited or free-edit. I could have put more poll options, but I think from what I got, should give me a better idea what ppl here like. And Those who like in-race shots, and those who will enter anything. Now I have a much better idea what some around here like, and also that some around here just like to argue, and some that want it thier way, or no way. I have learned quite a bit from the responses and voting, which was my purpose. All of these will be taken in effect, when outlining a new comp. Just the discussions I've had wether, heated or not, against or for, have changed what a new comp would have, or not have. Some rules and processes that I originally had in mind (when I posted this poll), have been scraped for better rules and processes, mostly a brain-child of some of the more negative responses. Something as simple as a poll for a Top 3, then a 'placing poll' for who is 1st, 2nd, 3rd; along with a point system, and standings, with say a quarterly Overall winner, may just keep ppl entering.

It's like when I run a football pool, when I started keeping stats on everything, wins, losses, total points, win pct, pts per win, best week, worst week, the pool exploded from like 20 entries/ wk, to last season's 70 entries per week, over triple just because of accurate stats. It's hard to say what makes a competition explode like that, but there is always something that sparks the competitive fire in ppl.

 

[redhawk]

In-Race PMC Artistic Competiton (In-Race more than one Car in shot, all Elements must be from GT4
@ 43%+/- (hmmm)
------------------------------
I've cast my vote(s)! 👍

​

 

[redhawk]

But if you really want to host a competition, considerate the Scenery one. It looks to be one of the competitions that would last a bit more long (I would say between 5/7 weeks, maybe more, maybe less…), and it seems to have some interest.

If you want I can help you with some rules, banners, and if you want some information about the poll system, you can P.M. me.

Thanks LdS.
Personally I don't understand why a NEW comp needs to be weekly or detract from any other comps. I pulled up your Scenery Pole by accident a couple of days ago and look now!
At the very least ppl are THINKING!

Yes, the whole idea here is to collaberate, and having users contribute to make attractive pages - thereby hopefully - increasing interest in PMC's.

Tell me this - would you prefer to enter 3 shots for contention in any given comp or just 1? I have trouble picking just 1 shot when I take 50 or 60 for a single comp, then doubt my choice once it's Final Entry.






​

 

[redhawk]

Crap, I don't know discuss in english

Salu2.alexwrc

I can read French and a little Spanish Salute!

​

 

[GrumpEone]

Here we go again....

See, on forums, it's common practice to use ellipses as a paragraph break to change topics. I figured it would be pretty obvious who it was directed at, and multi-quoting is still relatively new. But sure, I'll do things your way, if it's too complicated.

Out of courtesy for the others reading this, who may, just like you, only read some of the posts in a thread before replying with, already decided/ resolved issues, you should multi-quote, that why it's an option here.

I fail to see, other than your over-complicated "panel of judges" idea, how you're going to have a comp with different rules and/or structures. Unless it's just for the sake of being different. Perhaps I'll say it again too; this particular sub-forum has been around for a long time. We have got the structure down. This is what works.

The panel of judges idea was scrapped, oh somewhere around 28 posts ago. READ post #11. And are you really that narrow-minded, to think the current structure is the only structure that works, and that it is inconceivable that someone could come up with a better way? There you go, that's thinking outside the box.

Spoken like a true Photoshop novice. Go ask some of the vets (Franz, Moglet, Alex) how long they have spent on some of their pieces. For a PMC entry, absolutely, PS work should take no longer than about 2 minutes. For a 2.0, it could take a couple hours. For some of the old Photoshop comps, with themes like Cop Chases or accidents, yes, you could spend a whole day on one, fairly easily.

Yet again faulty assumtions, I have been using Adobe PhotoShop since Adobe bought out Aldus Photstyler (which I used a lot too). I was talking about the majority of the entries should not take a day, unless you are too perfectionistic, which spending all day working on an entry to a competition that yields no cash prize, is too perfectionistic in my opinion.

Haha. No, I have never won anything...

Another mis-quote, I said :"So what is your point? Don't try, if you think you can't win? If that is your point, then you will never win anything, ever."

You have won before, because why??? Because you did try.

You missed it. Again. I was talking specifically about the Photoshop comp. When there were some serious themes, like the ones I just mentioned, sure, you could go into PS and do a quick colour swap of a car and paste a lightbar on, but there were those out there who spent hours upon hours creating amazing shots that had every detail done. Deny it all you want, some people will see that and their interest will lessen. And a lot of people will get frustrated when the image in their mind can't be reproduced digitally. It happens.

Sure, I have done projects that took more than a day, man I've had projects last weeks, between rendering objects, countless touch-ups, and damn near pixel by pixel analizations/ adjustments. But to do that for some of these comps, is a ridiculous waste of time, Come on the image is only 1280x960. But then again, there are those who will spend hours upon hours coming up with images far surpassing the rest, and my hats off to them, they deserve to win. The point isn't winning, but just being competitive, and having fun. And to counter people losing interest by not winning, there would be 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Coming in 3rd is better than just, not winning.

How many cars are automatically excluded from CCCL? None. How many are excluded from a comp that will only allow Race Cars? Or Rally Cars? Or Unbuyable cars? CCCL is a very clever reinterpretation of the common comps, because everyone is forced to work with a certain combo for a week, eliminating the sometimes-problem of entries not really following the theme. Same goes for a rally comp in theory, but the combo possibilities are far less. It's simple math. CCCL has more specific themes, but the range of those themes encompasses far more than the other ideas.

All the cars, except for one is excluded, and all the tracks, except for one is excluded, Every Week. So by my Math the combinations are 1, week to week. With a Rally Only comp, you still have more combinations, every week than CCCL. Like you said it's the simplest math, 1=1
What is wrong with a little specificity, there are plenty of cars of each type in the game. Oh but I'm sure that you have run every car, on every track right??

It's not a point anyway, because what you fail to read, is the many times that I have said this poll was to see where the interest lies! Let me say it again, This poll is to see where the interest lies! Not that each of the poll options is a new comp to create.

Please, enlighten me on these new rules, formats, and structure, which have so far not been mentioned other than the (again), judge panel idea.

Read post #11, the judge idea was scrapped. And I am still coming up with the rules, which I am sure I have stated a couple of times. The rules will be defined if I create a new comp. Based on the votes, and suggestions/ comments.

Basic reading comprehension. Guess what the Photomode Competitions forum is? A forum. A sub-forum, yes, but guess what, still a forum. No go back and re-read my paragraph. My comment still stands; I doubt a half-baked, regurgitated competition will suddenly ignite a forum that has been on the decline for months.

Basic reading comprehension huh, yet you have not-read, mis-read, mis-quoted, and twisted words, every single time you make a post/ reply in this thread.
Also I stand by my comment; GTP is a Forum, Photomode Competitions is a sub-forum, so what is your point here? Argueing symantics, why? Are you really that up for an argument??

I haven't even started the Competition, yet your already calling it a half-baked, regurgitation of an old competition. There is open-mindedness at it's best.

You started off with valid opinions, and you stated them. In return I addressed your opinions, with my opinions. And obviously they do not meet. But now you keep trying to tear me apart verbally, and failing miserably at it as well. We will just have to agree to not agree, and that's that.

Now, I am sick of your petty, attacking, pointless, and argumentitive replies. If you have something real to bring to the table, so be it, and I will entertain it. But argueing just for the sake of argueing is getting old and tiresome, and I will not be a part of it anymore. Reply again if you must, but anything short on substance will be ignored. And I guess I'll see you at some comps, probably, and good luck.

Thanks LdS.
Personally I don't understand why a NEW comp needs to be weekly or detract from any other comps. I pulled up your Scenery Pole by accident a couple of days ago and look now!
At the very least ppl are THINKING!
Yes, the whole idea here is to collaberate, and having users contribute to make attractive pages - thereby hopefully - increasing interest in PMC's.
Tell me this - would you prefer to enter 3 shots for contention in any given comp or just 1? I have trouble picking just 1 shot when I take 50 or 60 for a single comp, then doubt my choice once it's Final Entry.
​

In-Race PMC Artistic Competiton (In-Race more than one Car in shot, all Elements must be from GT4)@ 43%+/- (hmmm)​

Yeah, I liked the idea of In-Race best too. And Redhawk thanks for your support, it's kinda lacking in here lately.

 

[Tangled Web]

I voted for the last option, I really do think that there is not enough activity around here to be starting up new Competitions.

The few competitions that are running at the moment get so few entries compared to when I first came here.

If you guys really want to get another comp going, I say bring back one that died like the Rally comp. I doubt it will last long though, It might go well in the first week, but I am sure the entries would die down very quickly.

I say just enter the competitions that are still running now, keep them alive. 👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Here we go again....

Indeed.

Out of courtesy for the others reading this, who may, just like you, only read some of the posts in a thread before replying with, already decided/ resolved issues, you should multi-quote, that why it's an option here.

It's awfully assumptive of you to repeatedly state I've only read some posts. I've read them all. It's not exactly a long topic.

The panel of judges idea was scrapped, oh somewhere around 28 posts ago. READ post #11. And are you really that narrow-minded, to think the current structure is the only structure that works, and that it is inconceivable that someone could come up with a better way? There you go, that's thinking outside the box.

...but, since you like to assume so much; how much of this place have you read up on? How far have you witnessed the comps? You want narrow-minded? Assuming that what we have now is the only setup we've ever used. We have tried other things, and this is by far the easiest, most user-friendly we could come up with. If you see some inherent flaw, by all means, bring a new idea to the table. Since you haven't, don't complain.

Yet again faulty assumtions, I have been using Adobe PhotoShop since Adobe bought out Aldus Photstyler (which I used a lot too). I was talking about the majority of the entries should not take a day, unless you are too perfectionistic, which spending all day working on an entry to a competition that yields no cash prize, is too perfectionistic in my opinion.

I've spent hours on numerous shots, and not even for comps, just my gallery. Why? Because it interests me, and I want the best images I can make. Who are you to decide what "too much time" is?

Another mis-quote, I said :"So what is your point? Don't try, if you think you can't win? If that is your point, then you will never win anything, ever."

You have won before, because why??? Because you did try.

Another poor argument. Yes, I have, but the thought does cross peoples' minds. Say it all you want, the majority of people are entering for at least a chance at winning. The competition itself is great, but nobody turns down a first place. And when they (rightfully or wrongfully) percieve their chances as slim to none, they might decide to not enter. That, again, was my point.

Sure, I have done projects that took more than a day, man I've had projects last weeks, between rendering objects, countless touch-ups, and damn near pixel by pixel analizations/ adjustments. But to do that for some of these comps, is a ridiculous waste of time, Come on the image is only 1280x960. But then again, there are those who will spend hours upon hours coming up with images far surpassing the rest, and my hats off to them, they deserve to win. The point isn't winning, but just being competitive, and having fun. And to counter people losing interest by not winning, there would be 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Coming in 3rd is better than just, not winning.

And what of those who come in 2nd or 3rd? I'm assuming there's something for them, in this as-yet-unseen new concept. Winner provides theme around here, second is asked for one if 1st doesn't feel like it.

All the cars, except for one is excluded, and all the tracks, except for one is excluded, Every Week. So by my Math the combinations are 1, week to week. With a Rally Only comp, you still have more combinations, every week than CCCL. Like you said it's the simplest math, 1=1
What is wrong with a little specificity, there are plenty of cars of each type in the game. Oh but I'm sure that you have run every car, on every track right??

If you're going to be intentionally dense, that's not my problem. But I'll ask it again, maybe it'll sink in: What options does a CCCL winner have to chose from in the GT4 garage for their new theme? And what does an "Unbuyable Cars Only" winner have? There will be a repeat far earlier in the latter.

It's not a point anyway, because what you fail to read, is the many times that I have said this poll was to see where the interest lies! Let me say it again, This poll is to see where the interest lies! Not that each of the poll options is a new comp to create.

I've not failed to read it. But you have stated your proposed comp idea would fall towards, understandably, where the interest lies. If you're going to (wisely) stay away from a too-specific encompassing theme, you're going to be left with... hey, what we've already got.

Read post #11, the judge idea was scrapped. And I am still coming up with the rules, which I am sure I have stated a couple of times. The rules will be defined if I create a new comp. Based on the votes, and suggestions/ comments.

...so you've got nothing then. At least, I fail to see how the rules won't end up as just being a clone of what we currently have. If you have drastically new ideas, throw them up here. Isn't that what this is about?

Basic reading comprehension huh, yet you have not-read, mis-read, mis-quoted, and twisted words, every single time you make a post/ reply in this thread.
Also I stand by my comment; GTP is a Forum, Photomode Competitions is a sub-forum, so what is your point here? Argueing symantics, why? Are you really that up for an argument??

It's really questionable how far you wanted to bait an argument, seeing as how you seriously thought I meant the entire GTP. If it's really my fault because I didn't specify sub-forum, then I apologize; to anybody who's actually been around here longer than a month, it should've been pretty obvious. Slick got it off the bat.

I haven't even started the Competition, yet your already calling it a half-baked, regurgitation of an old competition. There is open-mindedness at it's best.

Again: Show me something new. Show me a shred of an original idea, that could have a positive influence in the comps. Then I will retract my statement.

You started off with valid opinions, and you stated them. In return I addressed your opinions, with my opinions. And obviously they do not meet. But now you keep trying to tear me apart verbally, and failing miserably at it as well. We will just have to agree to not agree, and that's that.

Now, I am sick of your petty, attacking, pointless, and argumentitive replies. If you have something real to bring to the table, so be it, and I will entertain it. But argueing just for the sake of argueing is getting old and tiresome, and I will not be a part of it anymore. Reply again if you must, but anything short on substance will be ignored. And I guess I'll see you at some comps, probably, and good luck.

Petty? Attacking? Pointless? Argumentative? Hm, now let's just take a look at your response to MM, who didn't make an attack of any kind. Oh, that's right, his comments don't matter because he's half your age. He brought up real life only to point out that yes, it gets in the way for people. Nothing about his personal real life or his experience with it. You want to talk about twisting words around? I suppose I'm "failing miserably" because my age doesn't start with a 3.

"Something real to bring to the table"? "Short on substance"? What, because I don't agree with you that the comps need another? Get over yourself. I'm not the only one who doesn't approve of the idea, and take a look; those who don't, have been around a while. We know how this place works. I'd agree with Slick6 (who incidentally is the original comp hoster), if you've got a "great, original" idea, save it for GT5. It's unsurprising that the people who are positive for even more, barely-defined comps are the ones who just came around.

You want to contribute? Participate in comps more. Build up a basic understanding of this place, since it's obviously lacking. You've already had a disagreement with the mods about why you think you need three seperate galleries (or was it four?), so it's safe to say you can learn a thing or two. And again, if you do have different ideas, bring them to the table. We have yet to see them.

_______________________

(EDIT) Completely unrelated: TW, I've been waiting for a gallery update for a while now! .

 

[redhawk]

And to counter people losing interest by not winning, there would be 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Coming in 3rd is better than just, not winning.

Makes sense to me! 👍

 

[Swiss Legend]

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of collaboration here, seems like petty back and forth bickering. I would support new comps, sure, but I can barely make time for the few that run now. I'd like to see in-race comps, but that could just be theme for any comp. So.....
I do have one idea.

Why not change the way the winners pick what the theme for next week's comp will be. Let the community pick it. Throw up a poll of peoples ideas for a theme and let the PMC community vote for it. We can vote for a CCCL, or drifting or 2.0. Anyone can submit an idea. The voting can go like the current system does. The voting for, say week 24, will be the theme for week 26. Wk 23 voting can be the theme for Wk 25. Get it?
Not that the current system is flawed. I just think that it might bring this community closer if everyone had a say in what a certain theme is, instead of the winner of a comp.even though that's the reward(?). But then people might submit the same idea every week, so who knows.

 

[Tangled Web]

It's a nice idea Swiss, but wouldn't that draw the competitions length out even longer. So you might see more activity drop off, then again you might see more activity. Who knows.

I think the systems is good the way it is, like you said. Picking the theme is like the prize for the winner.

I am not against a new competition, I just think there is little activity around here to justify it.

Stick with what we have, if it's not broke, don't fix it. 👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of collaboration here, seems like petty back and forth bickering. I would support new comps, sure, but I can barely make time for the few that run now. I'd like to see in-race comps, but that could just be theme for any comp. So.....
I do have one idea.

Bam. That's my point. Hell, looking back at my entries, a fair amount of them are multi-car, even when it isn't required.

Why not change the way the winners pick what the theme for next week's comp will be. Let the community pick it. Throw up a poll of peoples ideas for a theme and let the PMC community vote for it. We can vote for a CCCL, or drifting or 2.0. Anyone can submit an idea. The voting can go like the current system does. The voting for, say week 24, will be the theme for week 26. Wk 23 voting can be the theme for Wk 25. Get it?
Not that the current system is flawed. I just think that it might bring this community closer if everyone had a say in what a certain theme is, instead of the winner of a comp.even though that's the reward(?). But then people might submit the same idea every week, so who knows.

I'm confused... do you mean have one overall comp each week, instead of the current 6 or so? I think that could be a problem simply because some people prefer 2.0 to PMC or unedited, or vice versa. I'm also wondering what exactly the winner of each week gets then if each theme is community-voted. Plus, with the amount of users here (read: not many), I think we'd end up in a lot of ties, or a single vote for a dozen different ideas, heh. In a re-invigorated GT5 photo forum... this could very well work though!

 

[Swiss Legend]

Bam. That's my point. Hell, looking back at my entries, a fair amount of them are multi-car, even when it isn't required.



I'm confused... do you mean have one overall comp each week, instead of the current 6 or so? I think that could be a problem simply because some people prefer 2.0 to PMC or unedited, or vice versa. I'm also wondering what exactly the winner of each week gets then if each theme is community-voted. Plus, with the amount of users here (read: not many), I think we'd end up in a lot of ties, or a single vote for a dozen different ideas, heh. In a re-invigorated GT5 photo forum... this could very well work though!

Well I just had the idea and threw it out there, I was thinking that each comp could have a voted on theme, or at least a couple. Maybe the winner of the previous week can pick the current weeks winner,(but then there could be bias involved). In the event of a tie in the voting, last weeks winner gets to break it. There goes democracy! It could just drag it out longer, Hopefully we can put that into action with GT5.

 

[GrumpEone]

Petty? Attacking? Pointless? Argumentative? Hm, now let's just take a look at your response to MM, who didn't make an attack of any kind. Oh, that's right, his comments don't matter because he's half your age.

I am only replying to you because you think I was attacking MM, which is simply not the truth. If you read the messages, you would read that he had assumed that I was bored, and gave me a list of things to do with my time. And I'll be damned if I let anyone TELL me what to do with my time. my reply was: "Hey MM, why don't you worry about yourself, I am not inclined to listen to what a 16 year old, tells me to do with my time."

Now what is wrong or attacking about that comment? Nothing, I was establishing boundries. If you said the same, I would have the same type of response. After that I had pointed out that any 16 year old doesn't know what 'Real Life' is, due to lack of experience. (I paraphrased that last bit). Which is a simple fact of life.

Now If I offended you MM, it was not intended.

Now, I got it SlipZ, you don't want new comps, I understood that the first time you voiced your opinions, I replied with my opinions. And it should have ended there. I feel a certain responsibility of addressing all replies since I started this thread, I have tried to be diplomatic with you, but you just want to argue, so I guess you will be argueing with yourself.

Look at the others who spoke out about not wanting new comps, like Tangled Web, TVR&Ferrari_Fan, LdS, and MM, they gave thier opinions, and let it go from there. You on the other hand, want to beat your opinion into me, and it ain't gonna happen. This poll is what we call 'Field Research', to find out what would work better, or if it will work at all. Not a pissing match.

The few competitions that are running at the moment get so few entries compared to when I first came here.

Let me ask you a question, do you notice too, that the majority of ppl who enter comps, try to enter all of them (if they have time)?



Anyway, I should thank Redhawk, [Empty Space], MiniCooper120, and Swiss Legend for your support, comments, and suggestions. Also thanks to LdS, Tangled Web, TVR&Ferrari_fan, and Slick6 for your constructive critism and comments.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I am only replying to you because you think I was attacking MM, which is simply not the truth. If you read the messages, you would read that he had assumed that I was bored, and gave me a list of things to do with my time. And I'll be damned if I let anyone TELL me what to do with my time. my reply was: "Hey MM, why don't you worry about yourself, I am not inclined to listen to what a 16 year old, tells me to do with my time."

So let me get this straight; nobody dare tell you what to do with your time, as a suggestion. But having a poll, where the primary goal is to find out what you can do with your time on GTP, is going to be decided by other people?

Now what is wrong or attacking about that comment? Nothing, I was establishing boundries. If you said the same, I would have the same type of response. After that I had pointed out that any 16 year old doesn't know what 'Real Life' is, due to lack of experience. (I paraphrased that last bit). Which is a simple fact of life.

If his age has nothing to do with the attack, you wouldn't have included it. Stop your back-peddling.

Now, I got it SlipZ, you don't want new comps, I understood that the first time you voiced your opinions, I replied with my opinions. And it should have ended there. I feel a certain responsibility of addressing all replies since I started this thread, I have tried to be diplomatic with you, but you just want to argue, so I guess you will be argueing with yourself.

Woops, I missed the rules about "field research" threads saying nobody can respond after the initial response to their first. Want to be "diplomatic"? Listen to the facts, from people who have been here longer than you.

Look at the others who spoke out about not wanting new comps, like Tangled Web, TVR&Ferrari_Fan, LdS, and MM, they gave thier opinions, and let it go from there. You on the other hand, want to beat your opinion into me, and it ain't gonna happen. This poll is what we call 'Field Research', to find out what would work better, or if it will work at all. Not a pissing match.

I too like to respond when addressed. But if you are that stubborn to ignore views that don't line up with your view, fine, go ahead. And when I see your first original idea (that doesn't just make things more complicated for the sake of being different), I may just offer my congrats. Because obviously the current competition selection is somehow lacking.

Oh wait, something to the table... OMG! GREAT IDEA!



Good luck.

 

[redhawk]

So let me get this straight; nobody dare tell you what to do with your time, as a suggestion. But having a poll, where the primary goal is to find out what you can do with your time on GTP, is going to be decided by other people?



If his age has nothing to do with the attack, you wouldn't have included it. Stop your back-peddling.



Woops, I missed the rules about "field research" threads saying nobody can respond after the initial response to their first. Want to be "diplomatic"? Listen to the facts, from people who have been here longer than you.



I too like to respond when addressed. But if you are that stubborn to ignore views that don't line up with your view, fine, go ahead. And when I see your first original idea (that doesn't just make things more complicated for the sake of being different), I may just offer my congrats. Because obviously the current competition selection is somehow lacking.

Oh wait, something to the table... OMG! GREAT IDEA!



Good luck.

Ahhh - there are some good ideas coming from this, and some are for and against new comps - some feel threatened - some intrigued - some excited - some who are indifferent.

As GY1 pointed out - this is merely a survey of possibilities. Why not think about some points you must certainly have thought about regarding a WISH LIST in a comp.

I appreciate that you have been in these comps for some time but I've been at GTpl for 2/3 years. My entry into this sub-forum is recent so ppl think of me as a nooobbeee.
Whatever - more members is beneficial to all - don't you think?

I think a lot of ppl are missing the point here. - CREATIVITY- and collaboration.

I'm sure you can offer your experience in a constructive way and in the end maybe find that HEY that's an idea.

In your experience, have you not doubted posting a SINGLE FINAL when you had 3 beauties equally impressive. But, you alone must decide which one.
Would you not be happier to show off 3 images in a given comp and let the field choose the BEST of those three to be entered in Final Round?

After all real life Photo comps are structured that way - I've judged some myself so I doubt these comps represent a major challenge for me. Some contests get 50 - 100 thousand shots in several formats and in several themes.

If you think I'm kidding see this:
http://www.profotos.com/pros/profiles/index.cfm?member=205








​

 

[GrumpEone]

If his age has nothing to do with the attack, you wouldn't have included it. Stop your back-peddling.

Not an attack, and not back-peddling. There is no reason to.

... Want to be "diplomatic"? Listen to the facts, from people who have been here longer than you.

In the above quote, 'facts' should be replaced by 'opinions'. Also others who have been here longer than me, have shown support for new comps.

I too like to respond when addressed. But if you are that stubborn to ignore views that don't line up with your view...

I never ignored your views, mine are just different than yours, and you don't make a strong argument at all, to change my views. The votes are still 8 for some kind of new comp, and 4 against. You are still in the minority.

...Because obviously the current competition selection is somehow lacking...

By your own principal argument, you expressed that there is a problem filling the current competitions. But no, they aren't lacking at all.

If I start a new comp, then you will see what I'll bring to the table and what original ideas I do have (I already voiced two of them), until then you can wait in suspense. I'm still working things out, so it runs better, smoother, and gets more response (if possible).

Is it that hard to accept, that I don't agree with your viewpoint? Or do you keep having to argue for arguements sake??

 

[SlipZtrEm]

In your experience, have you not doubted posting a SINGLE FINAL when you had 3 beauties equally impressive. But, you alone must decide which one.
Would you not be happier to show off 3 images in a given comp and let the field choose the BEST of those three to be entered in Final Round?

Sure, I've tried to figure out which to enter, but I always decide on one final one. Why? Because a common rule here is to not allow shots previously entered in a comp. So why throw away three if I can use them later? Sure, we could get rid of that rule, but then people would just recycle entries. I understand the idea of having everyone's thrown in to pick a best from each person, but it would significantly lengthen the time between threads. I feel that the entire point of a competition is to enter which entry I personally think is my best, not what others decide it is. Whether I'm wrong or right.

Not an attack, and not back-peddling. There is no reason to.

So if I replaced age with anything else... say, location, or sex, it still wouldn't be an attack? I'll restate: if his age seriously has nothing to do with it, you wouldn't mention it. Why does his age matter?

In the above quote, 'facts' should be replaced by 'opinions'. Also others who have been here longer than me, have shown support for new comps.

Fact: There have been plenty of new people who have expressed an urge to run a new comp, create it, then either disappear, or the comp fizzles. Fact: The competition boards have been in a steady decline after about one year of GT4 being available. If I choose to ignore a fact, it doesn't suddenly become an opinion. And yes, people who have been here longer, but how long have they been active in the competition section? Six months, tops?

I never ignored your views, mine are just different than yours, and you don't make a strong argument at all, to change my views. The votes are still 8 for some kind of new comp, and 4 against. You are still in the minority.

You have ignored numerous, experienced people telling you that it's a bad idea. If you don't want to listen to people with actual knowledge of these boards, that's your problem. Quality versus quantity.

By your own principal argument, you expressed that there is a problem filling the current competitions. But no, they aren't lacking at all.

Yes. The PMC went down to a Top 10, when the H2H is revived, it will most likely go down to five. Infact, the 2.0 might as well. So you think the solution is to introduce more competitions, splitting the few peoples' time around here further? Brilliant.

If I start a new comp, then you will see what I'll bring to the table and what original ideas I do have (I already voiced two of them), until then you can wait in suspense. I'm still working things out, so it runs better, smoother, and gets more response (if possible).

I've seen the judges idea that has been disgarded, and some kind of double-poll idea, which has been done here before. The only way a new comp will bring new people to the competitions forum on its own is if you start spamming around the boards. It won't get random lurkers to join simply to post in it, because if nothing has yet... they probably won't.

Is it that hard to accept, that I don't agree with your viewpoint? Or do you keep having to argue for arguements sake??

Ask yourself the same (first) question. You made a comment about teens thinking they're right about everything, but I guess that never really goes away. If you think you're right, and that there is some kind of need for yet another competition, and it will apparently not be a rehash, go ahead. You must know something nobody else does.

 

[GrumpEone]

So if I replaced age with anything else... say, location, or sex, it still wouldn't be an attack? I'll restate: if his age seriously has nothing to do with it, you wouldn't mention it. Why does his age matter?

The age thing had to do with his telling me how Real Life is, when he doesn't know. Anyway he brought the age comment upon himself, If you read the posts you will have read this:

...If your old enough to understand this, just think about this. Do you have any homeworks to do? Have to study for the semester?...

Ask yourself the same (first) question. You made a comment about teens thinking they're right about everything...

Is this the comment you are refering to?? If so read again, this time in context.

...But I have issue with some arrogant 16 year-old, feels he needs to tell me about 'Real Life', when in actually he has no clue what he is talking about, and hasn't experienced real life. Sure when I was his age I thought I knew everything as well, but you live and learn, and realize you didn't know everything like you thought you did at 16...

See Einstien, I was talking about myself as well in that comment.

So with all due respect stop trying to cause trouble.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Is this the comment you are refering to?? If so read again, this time in context.

See Einstien, I was talking about myself as well in that comment.

So with all due respect stop trying to cause trouble.

Look at the comment I quoted. Now look at me telling you to ask yourself the first question again. This might take a bit, but maybe you'll figure out what I was referring to.

You want to talk context when you only use half my sentence?

Whatever. Obviously some guy who thinks three seperate galleries for his shots is "creative" knows a thing or two about how this place is run. I'm sorry to have ever questioned you in your infinite wisdom. The mods don't know what's right, the people who have taken part in this community don't know what's right, but you have come to show us the way. Next time though, you may want to try spelling good old Al's name right.

 

[redhawk]

Whatever. Obviously some guy who thinks three seperate galleries for his shots is "creative" knows a thing or two about how this place is run.

Slip - that was a cheap shot!
----------------------------------------------------
And, this is all counterproductive. I know you have an extensive and truly
professional Gallery Slip. My hat is off to you for that -

BTW thanks for your reply regarding 3 VS 1 submissions. That too is merely an option. A contestant may wish to submit 1 or 3 or whatever - it's up to them. For now its just an IDEA. One that was derived from actual photo comp practices. FOR $.