NinjaOfShred's Time Trials

[tricd04]

This'll be my last time for the week, as I'm going to my aunt's house for the week.

My time: 1'39.422
A really Meh time, I think...

 

[Fabianoprkr]

I have drive for fun my time is a 1.35.719

 

[Smallhorses]

Given that it doesn't actually specify this anywhere, I'm assuming we're sticking to the usual WRS standard of cleanliness for this time-trial? (2 wheels on tarmac / rumble strip at all times?)

I'm also assuming that you mean Autumn Ring Normal for this challenge, as there is also a reverse available so it's important to distinguish.

Anyway, had about 20 laps at this, and quickest clean one so far (with saved replay available + screenshot and crap quality cellphone video if anyone wants it!) is 1'34.233.

 

[Flynn77]

Flynn's time: 1'38.130

 

[shotamagee]

Car: Toyota Sprinter Trueno Gt-Apex '83
Power after Oil change: 129
Best Time: 1:35.247

 

[amkobih]

here's my time:1'37.349

 

[Smallhorses]

Given that the 72hrs are up, here's my screenshot & video.

 

[Flynn77]

Round 4 Results: Toyota Sprinter AE86 @ Autumn Ring

Smallhorses: 1'34.233 5 POINTS
shotamagee: 1'35.247 4 POINTS
Fabianoprkr: 1'35.719 3 POINTS
amkobih: 1'37.349 2 POINTS
Flynn77: 1'38.130 1 POINT
tricd04: 1'39.422

Overall
shotamagee: 16 POINTS
Flynn77: 11 POINTS
tricd04: 8 POINTS
amkobih: 7 POINTS
MarkWebber: 5 POINTS
Smallhorses: 5 POINTS
Fabianoprkr: 3 POINTS

Round 5: Lotus Elise 111S @ Chamonix

Oil change, stock, no tuning, no aids. Post your time here in this thread and edit your time as it gets better. Be warned, though, as if your post is edited more than 72 hours after the time of this post, your time will be forfeit. Gogogo!

 

[Smallhorses]

I'll ask again since there was no clarification last time:
These laps have to be 100% clean, right? No wall touches, barrier rubs and 2 wheels on tarmac or rumble strip at all times?

Also please, please, please, clarify the track direction.
It's possible to run Chamonix both forward and reverse.

The Lotus 111S cannot be run "stock" at Chamonix anyway, as it requires the purchase of Snow Tyres.

Please clarify all of the above before we proceed. Thanks.

 

[Flynn77]

I'll ask again since there was no clarification last time:
These laps have to be 100% clean, right? No wall touches, barrier rubs and 2 wheels on tarmac or rumble strip at all times?

Also please, please, please, clarify the track direction.
It's possible to run Chamonix both forward and reverse.

The Lotus 111S cannot be run "stock" at Chamonix anyway, as it requires the purchase of Snow Tyres.

Please clarify all of the above before we proceed. Thanks.

I consider snow tires to be "stock" as they are required to run the track. All tracks in this comp are normal, not reverse. 100% clean? Nah, that would take the fun right out.

Slight wall touching is okay in my book. Two wheels on tarmac is preferable, though. For rally, anything from wall to wall is allowed.

Proof is NOT required, but welcome. We go by the honor system here.

 

[Smallhorses]

Okay then. Lotus Elise 111S with oil change (164HP in screen where drivers aids are turned off) and snow tyres fitted, gives a 2'21.172 at Chamonix Normal.
A completely clean lap too.

*Edit* I noticed we'd another 20 or so hours until the deadline on this one, so I ran a few more laps when I got back from work this evening. Now have a 2'20.650 lap, which is also so clean you could lick it.
That'll probably be about it from me, I've run faster dirty laps with minor wall touches, but I'll stick with a clean lap for submission, and I'll post the screenshot & crappy video after the 72hrs are up.

 

[Flynn77]

Flynn's time: 2'19.079

 

[shotamagee]

Car: Lotus Elise 111S
Power after Oil change: 164
Best (Clean) Time: 2:20.920

Running clean takes the fun out; Nah just makes its more satisfying when you do eventually finish a lap cleanly. (I even suggested this car/track combo because doing a clean lap at Chamonix isn't easy, but with this car its definitly easier than most)

 

[Smallhorses]

Flynn's time: 2'19.079

How clean was that lap? I can't get anywhere near that without wallriding and that's something I find abhorrent, although I can get down into 2'18s by doing it.
There's a good reason most laptime challenges on were run with strictly clean rules, as it leaves no ambiguity to what's acceptable and it doesn't ruin the fun at all, part of the fun is showing the driving skill it takes to run clean, fast laps. Wall-banging, off-roading and shortcutting detract from that demonstration of skill, although many folks are quick to take advantage of them to the detriment of others (the GT5 time attacks that were abandoned due to this are a great case in point. The fastest clean drivers were still losing out to those who considered it OK to exploit shortcuts.)

For rally, anything from wall to wall is allowed.

This statement actually implies that use of anything from the wall on 1 side of the track to the wall on the other is fair game. That's not really the way real racing goes. Real drivers tend to stay between the walls as they have real-life damage from even minor wall scrapes.

In your case what constitutes "minor" wall touches on a rally course? The last corner in particular (as with many others here) can see massive time gains if a minor touch on the rear of the car straightens you out on the corner exit as compared to taking the corner clean. Obviously minor touches to the front of the car tend to slow you down, but it's hardly fair if a "dirty" lap can benefit speedwise from touching the walls.
Do you have the ability to post a video, even a poor quality cellphone video of your lap? I'd like to know what I'm up against for future reference within this thread if it continues beyond the initial 5 or 6 challenges.
I'm just curious as you were about 4s behind me last week, and now 2s ahead, though I understand it's not quite a level playing field given that there's a huge difference between tarmac and snow!
Has anyone else run a fully clean lap here, and if so what sort of times are you seeing?

 

[shotamagee]

While I agree with Smallhorses opinion, I view this is Flynn's series so he can run it with whatever rules he wants. Also I don't think this comp isn't quite as official as some of the others that are run on GTPlanet, it was going to be run by someone else (hence the name) and when he pulled out Flynn stepped in at the last moment to run it.
Old thread Link: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=213356

I would also add thats there's a difference between (a) wall collisions that are on purpose and those that are (b) a result of misjudement, with the rules in place I have no qualms about other competitors posting times consistent with (b), but anyone doing (a) well, I'd view that as unfair on the others.

But for the record I only post times (in a 1 lap time trial thread) If I think they're clean.

 

[Flynn77]

I'm just curious as you were about 4s behind me last week, and now 2s ahead, though I understand it's not quite a level playing field given that there's a huge difference between tarmac and snow!

I consider myself much better at dirt/snow than tarmac. Maybe my definition of "clean" doesn't exactly coincide with your own, but I play to have fun. GT4 to me is a game, not a sim. As such, I don't bother with proof. If you wish to challenge it, I will remove the time.

 

[Smallhorses]

Don't worry, it's not an issue per se, I was just curious as to how you'd managed to be that much quicker. As shotamagee has said, it's your contest, thus your rules, and I've never professed to being as good a rally racer as I am on tarmac. (Partly due to the fact that I drive a DFP wheel in 900-degree mode and it's widely acknowledged that the DS2 is much easier to rally with because it's so much easier to go lock-to-lock with.)
I'm also more than willing to admit that I'm not the fastest GT4 player in the world, I'm quick-ish, but nowhere near the MarkWebber's of the racing world.
It's down to personal choice in this instance, I know I can exploit a wall touch here & there on this particular track to go faster, but I'd rather post a clean lap and since shotamagee has too, it's given me a little competition.
The only reason I posted proof last week is that I'm now racing with a few folks that I don't know. I've been gone from GTP for about 9 months, and there's a lot of new faces here, so I can't count on everyone knowing me from before. I want to get involved in the Sunday Cup & Top Gear Comparo events too, so being seen to be active, and providing evidence of cleanliness never goes amiss with respect to currying favour with the organisers of those series too if I can refer them back to here.
Sometimes it's not so much the request for proof that's important, "proof" isn't needed in this contest, but I'm competitive and when I have an opportunity to learn where I'm losing time I always relish the chance to learn from someone else's expertise.

 

[Car-less]

Welcome back Smallhorses, it's nice to see some of the old guard return to GT4.

As someone thats beeen competing with the new faces in the forum for some time I can tell you that the impression I get is that they are mostly LAN clean. i.e. varying skill levels, all trying to be clean but accepting accidental collisions and excusrions. Way better than the typical racing noob that believes ramming, shortcuts and wallriding are acceptable against human opponents.

Of the other competitions currently running, only the 'Sunday Cup' and 'Grand Prix Classics' are invitational and invites seem to be given out readily to anyone recently active in the GT4 forum. The 'Top Gear Comparason' was initially a feeder series to the 'Sunday Cup' and I seem to have arranged most of them, but more recently there's been an explosion of new series to keep everyone busy.

 

[Watchman]

Sometimes it's not so much the request for proof that's important, "proof" isn't needed in this contest, but I'm competitive and when I have an opportunity to learn where I'm losing time I always relish the chance to learn from someone else's expertise.

I can totally understand this statement. I posted a few replays of my runs in the 'Top Gear Comparo'-Thread just to give other users the opportunity you are speaking of.

You can see that I have the same thoughts:

[...]Furthermore, a replay may be of avail for you guys, because you could see where I did something differently (I realize that we do not drive the same car, but given that the cars used have about the same power (500 hp +/- 5%), you can get the idea of how it has to be done or what you have to change).

 

[amkobih]

my time is 2'25.240, i just hate those snow and dirt stages

 

[Flynn77]

Round 5 will be the final round of the competition.

 

[Ignignoc N Err]

Smallhorses, you're one of the most respected members hereabouts. As such, you oughta be ashamed of yourself. So you got beat? Take your medicine like a man and go to the house. I've gotten pwn3d before, and no it's not fun, but it's a part of life. I've even been beaten soundly doing what I do best. It's, again, a part of life. You've also recognized that there are people better than you in the 200pt forums. I spend a great deal of my time lurking there, and I've seen many places where you've had to concede to others' skills because you can't seem to do what they've done, at least not yet. What changed in your heart to make you feel that you were unbeatable?

Kudos to Shota for accepting the challenge for what it is: a chance to test your skills against others and see how you stack up.

As for wall contact, we tend to go by what would pass the license exam. If it's hard contact, it's disallowed. If it's mild contact as part of misjudgement, as Car-Less said, then it's allowed. That's how the game judges licenses. That's how we judge "clean" laps.

 

[Car-less]

With my integrity being called into question by one that I greatly admired, I see no reason to further administer. Instead, I will quietly participate in the competitions hosted by others. That is all I will say on the matter.

Smallhorses, you're one of the most respected members hereabouts. As such, you oughta be ashamed of yourself. So you got beat? Take your medicine like a man and go to the house.

Don't worry, it's not an issue per se, I was just curious as to how you'd managed to be that much quicker.

<snip>

when I have an opportunity to learn where I'm losing time I always relish the chance to learn from someone else's expertise.

I think people are misunderstanding each other here! The way I see it Smallhorses was looking for pointers to improve his skills on loose surfaces - not accusing others of cheating.

 

[Smallhorses]

Smallhorses, you're one of the most respected members hereabouts. As such, you oughta be ashamed of yourself. So you got beat? Take your medicine like a man and go to the house. I've gotten pwn3d before, and no it's not fun, but it's a part of life. I've even been beaten soundly doing what I do best. It's, again, a part of life. You've also recognized that there are people better than you in the 200pt forums. I spend a great deal of my time lurking there, and I've seen many places where you've had to concede to others' skills because you can't seem to do what they've done, at least not yet. What changed in your heart to make you feel that you were unbeatable?

I realise that Flynn77 is your friend, however, there should probably be some unbunching of panties here.
I haven't suggested anywhere that I am unbeatable, quite the contrary, as you've said, I'm happy to acknowledge there are hundreds of faster folk than I am. What's unusual is for someone to go from 4s a lap behind one week to 2 clear seconds ahead the next. I wanted to learn how it was done, especially given that I know in this case that minor wall touches can be used to one's advantage in a rally situation.
Comparing this to the 200pt subforum is kind of a moot point, many of the challenges there are of a different league to this, and the fact that there's considerable differences between AI difficulty and pitstop strategy between NTSC & PAL versions of the game means that some things that are possible in one version are not in another.

Kudos to Shota for accepting the challenge for what it is: a chance to test your skills against others and see how you stack up.

Given that I'm within 10ths of shotamagee's also clean lap, I'm more than happy to accept that's a good benchmark for a clean lap and I respect his skills in keeping it clean too. 👍

As for wall contact, we tend to go by what would pass the license exam. If it's hard contact, it's disallowed. If it's mild contact as part of misjudgement, as Car-Less said, then it's allowed. That's how the game judges licenses. That's how we judge "clean" laps.

Which was why I asked how clean Flynn77's lap was. Unfortunately I didn't get a good answer. If he'd said there were 3 wall touches, then fine, it's in the spirit of the rules here and it would, given the nature of this track go some way to explaining the posted time, however, we got a cagey answer about it's only a game and how he doesn't keep proof, which is a shame as it looks like we could learn a lot from his technique.
Unfortunately as I was new to this thread last week I did my due diligence in reading every page before competing, and no mention was made anywhere of racing rules, which is why I sought clarification (and had to several times before I got an answer.)

Round 5 will be the final round of the competition.

Any particular reason for this?
Round 6, BMW McLaren F1 at Infineon was looking like a really tasty combo.

 

[fazamu0079]

About the rumble strips I think, the condition that 2 wheels on the inside rumble strip should be considered "unclean",because you may do shortcut in this way.But in another aspect,2 wheels on outside one is necessary at some speedway Conner,like Tokyo R246.

 

[tricd04]

My clean time, with minimal wall touches was 2'23.213. I also ran a 'dirty' wallriding lap and got similar results to Smallhorses, running in the low 2'20's.

 

[Flynn77]

Round 5 Results: Lotus Elise 111S @ Chamonix

Flynn77: 2'19.079 - 5 POINTS
Smallhorses: 2'20.650 - 4 POINTS
shotamagee: 2'20.920 - 3 POINTS
tricd04: 2'23.213 - 2 POINTS
amkobih: 2'25.240 - 1 POINT

Final Standings
shotamagee: 19 POINTS
Flynn77: 16 POINTS
tricd04: 10 POINTS
Smallhorses: 9 POINTS
amkobih: 8 POINTS
MarkWebber: 5 POINTS
Fabianoprkr: 3 POINTS

Congrats, Shot. It's been a pleasure competing with you. See ya over at the Top Gear Comparo thread.

 

[amkobih]

Flynn,will there be more of your time trials,like season 2 or something?

 

[Flynn77]

Flynn,will there be more of your time trials,like season 2 or something?

I won't be hosting anymore, but someone else is free to pick up where I left off.

 

[Smallhorses]

Here's my clean video (although the quality is crappy due to the lighting shifts on this track due to the glare of the snow in places and my camera didn't seem to handle it very well, that & I'm filming off a glarey CRT TV anyway!) for this combo. The music (from iPod, not in-game) is cranked up a little too, so as to drown out the construction noise outside as they're rebuilding the front of the townhome opposite us right now!

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