killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
Nissan 400Z Makes Gaming Debut in Project CARS 3
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 90 comments
- 14,087 views
- 337
- Belgium
- focus2sport
As long as that opinion is based on facts and not try dancing around them like many seem to be doing in here...
Asking for proof is what's expected here but if one comes up with proof and it doesn't suit certain individuals it is either lies or gets deleted entirely...
Asking for proof is what's expected here but if one comes up with proof and it doesn't suit certain individuals it is either lies or gets deleted entirely...
- 2,334
- Germany
- x Ak1504 x
- 87,105
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
I already warned your colleague about making stuff up, and I don't expect to have to do so again with another PC forum/discord moderator.
Firstly, you're in the wrong thread yet again, just as your colleague was. This is a thread for talking about the Nissan 400Z Proto in PC3. I know, because I wrote the article that created the thread.
More importantly, your post is an outright lie. No "proof" of anything has been "deleted entirely" - in fact nothing is "deleted entirely", ever:
In fact no "proof" (you mean "evidence", I suspect) of your counter-claim has been offered at all. "The devs told me" is simply meaningless here; aside from the fact we know you moderate on the PC forum/discord (and the entire racing game community is fully aware of what that means) you have no established credibility here and, as per the first part of this paragraph, are entirely willing to create total falsehoods to support your position.
You've recently taken to posting screengrabs from the pre-launch developer blog as evidence, which I hope is not the totality of "the devs told me". But also I kind of do, given how telling that would be.
The user you are constantly attacking (despite the fact he quite likes the game) has shown actual evidence of his reasoning. Literally nothing has been tabled against it.
As per my previous message, we will not allow you to turn this part of this site into yours. Put up or shut up. And if you're going to put up, do it in the right thread, rather than dragging it across every one you can find.
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- 314
- Antarctica
I’ve read the blog. I’m not convinced they made the right call about what they describe about their tire model choices.
The meta critic reviews suggest a lot of people are confused by their choices, too. If somebody gets fun out if it, cool. Im not interested in pcars as pseudo sim arcade title.
Edit: From Reading other posts it sounds you have a relationship or bias to this game or it’s devs. It may be better to read people’s views and take that as feedback rather than justify choices. Anyhow, I wasn’t offended but it does color your posts.
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- 2,239
- MI
This can all be ended quite easily. Someone brought up a point of how/if they tested the new 400Z in order to get any information on how the real car handled. I then said none of that happened, they took some basic info on the car, threw it on a model of the car and just guestimated the rest seeing as none of the cars in PC3 really represent a simulation of their real life counterparts (yes, I'll say it again - - - none). You know they never tested a 400z, I know they never drove one, everyone knows they never had any hands on with the car (yes this is a guess but come on).
Then "Public Relations" over here tried telling everyone how realistic Project Cars 3 is, and we all had a good laugh. My sides are still hurting. Not hurting as bad as SMS's wallets after releasing PC3 but none the less a good stout laughing pain.
Edit - I still think it's a good addition to PC3 and the pack is fun. There's nothing wrong with saying PC3 is arcadey. It can be fun when in the mood for that type of thing. Stop taking offence because someone else sees a game in a different light than you do.
Then "Public Relations" over here tried telling everyone how realistic Project Cars 3 is, and we all had a good laugh. My sides are still hurting. Not hurting as bad as SMS's wallets after releasing PC3 but none the less a good stout laughing pain.
Edit - I still think it's a good addition to PC3 and the pack is fun. There's nothing wrong with saying PC3 is arcadey. It can be fun when in the mood for that type of thing. Stop taking offence because someone else sees a game in a different light than you do.
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- 87,105
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Which is pretty standard. As a rough example, nobody at PD has driven any of the Vision GT cars (the Bugatti and VW Roadster are driveable though), or the fictional Gr.1/Gr.3/Gr.4/Gr.B race cars, and even some of the real, but expensive and rare, stuff is pretty unlikely too. A lot of it has to be guesswork; intelligent, informed guesswork, with CAD files to hand, but guesswork.
Oddly, the only time I even recall seeing the 400Z in motion was this video from Nissan, and it seemed rather on the leisurely side:
I'd think their wallets are fine. B-N took any hit as the publisher for PC3, then Codemasters bought SMS, and then EA bought Codemasters.
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- 314
- Antarctica
I don’t like GTS’s Vgt cars either.
For all I know those cars are Mumbo jumbo and I wished they weren’t in the game. It feels like driving an ad.
It made me cringe watching all those videos of designers explaining the process. I rather would have watched detail on actual cars. Anyhow, sorry for off topic but it’s an example of marketing taking over ‘the real driving simulator’, I feel.
For all I know those cars are Mumbo jumbo and I wished they weren’t in the game. It feels like driving an ad.
It made me cringe watching all those videos of designers explaining the process. I rather would have watched detail on actual cars. Anyhow, sorry for off topic but it’s an example of marketing taking over ‘the real driving simulator’, I feel.
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In the end, cars are a bundle of measurements -- a batch of numbers. I know this doubly well now, developing my own sim. Things as easy to reference as inputting accurate factory toe angles can have an outsized effect on handling. I didn't even have to do anything to prepare my tire model for it. I just pivoted the alignment of the wheels.
On the other hand, things like true-to-life spring stiffness, dampers, and effects of fully 3D suspension geometry are more difficult to pin down. Also the distribution of mass -- by default a physics engine assumes that an object has uniform density within its shape.
I'd say you can easily get into the ballpark of a car's traits just from data and, as was said, educated guesswork and intuition.
On the other hand, things like true-to-life spring stiffness, dampers, and effects of fully 3D suspension geometry are more difficult to pin down. Also the distribution of mass -- by default a physics engine assumes that an object has uniform density within its shape.
I'd say you can easily get into the ballpark of a car's traits just from data and, as was said, educated guesswork and intuition.
- 337
- Belgium
- focus2sport
https://www.thedrive.com/news/39673/new-nissan-z-appears-in-project-cars-3-with-444-horsepower
Sorry some chose not to believe me, maybe they will in future...
Sorry some chose not to believe me, maybe they will in future...
- 2,043
- United Kingdom
- AWRacing17
killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
- 337
- Belgium
- focus2sport
Hahaha... Oh boy... Did i ever claim anything about Nissan?
No, i claimed that SMS said that it's built realisticly... Which is exactly what's been said in the article.
Calling me a liar is therefore uncalled for, the most you can possibly claim is that the writer of the article or the dev that actually drove the car is lying.Mind you, calling Jan Frischkorn a liar would be terrible.
Nissan also didn't deny anything, they didn't confirm...
Unfortunately some choose to shoot the messenger... And still do.
No, i claimed that SMS said that it's built realisticly... Which is exactly what's been said in the article.
Calling me a liar is therefore uncalled for, the most you can possibly claim is that the writer of the article or the dev that actually drove the car is lying.Mind you, calling Jan Frischkorn a liar would be terrible.
Nissan also didn't deny anything, they didn't confirm...
Unfortunately some choose to shoot the messenger... And still do.
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- 337
- Belgium
- focus2sport
OK, here's the man himself:
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/03...san-z-proto-in-project-cars-3-power-pack-dlc/
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/03...san-z-proto-in-project-cars-3-power-pack-dlc/
- 2,043
- United Kingdom
- AWRacing17
You're the only one using the words liar here bud, We understand the crusade you're on
I was going to buy the Legend and Power pack this weekend since these are the only one where the cars interest me really, but the attitude of yourself as lead moderator and your fellow members have actually put me off, doubt I'll play the game now either, there other games I can fill my time with and have a more accommodating environment
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- 337
- Belgium
- focus2sport
So that's not evidence to what i said about the Nissan being modeled as realisticly as possible?
What the hell do you guys want?
A notaried statement?
A voice recording?
A head to head Q&A?
This is twisting every which way possible, just to not have to admit you're wrong.
I'm done, before i'm the only one (again) of getting accused of going off topic...
killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
Here read a little snippet of what he said. Truly amazing . Yes I guess Nissans cars don't loose fuel and have magic tires too. SMS sense and imagination 🤬 me.
Since we’ve all been working on race cars for over 15 years at the studio, we have a "sense"of how various manufacturers go racing, and we set about building "what we "imagined" Nissan would create if they made the Z Proto for GT4 racing."
Since we’ve all been working on race cars for over 15 years at the studio, we have a "sense"of how various manufacturers go racing, and we set about building "what we "imagined" Nissan would create if they made the Z Proto for GT4 racing."
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- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
They're using their means to reproduce real life qualities of a vehicle that they have no idea about yet. Which is basically throwing numbers at it to likely make it drive as close to a RWD vehicle in general, probably borrowing from other cars. It's not to hard to grasp.
You're projecting here. You're also playing victim too.
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- 2,043
- United Kingdom
- AWRacing17
Right so reading the article properly, the car is based in the US and is Nissan’s one-off twin-turbo 3.0L V-6 “test-mule”,
So then Nissan sent CAD files and Photos to SMS where they compared these CAD drawings to a 2020 Nissan 370Z, then the car gets made in Project CARS and then Jan gets to drive it, he drives the car virtually not the real thing in the US....
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killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
- 40,808
I'm confused how this is even something that's in question, considering this is a forum about a game series where the developer applied "best guess" specs and driving physics to concept cars, prototypes and preproduction vehicles for over twenty years.
SMS doesn't know how the next Z drives. SMS doesn't know if their recreation is accurate. They modeled the car from the concept, presumably with reference materials provided to them by Nissan; and implemented specs to interact with the physics engine that were maybe provided by Nissan (but maybe are just estimates) but even if they weren't it doesn't matter because Nissan hasn't finished developing the car yet.
SMS doesn't know how the next Z drives. SMS doesn't know if their recreation is accurate. They modeled the car from the concept, presumably with reference materials provided to them by Nissan; and implemented specs to interact with the physics engine that were maybe provided by Nissan (but maybe are just estimates) but even if they weren't it doesn't matter because Nissan hasn't finished developing the car yet.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,541
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
What else would you expect them to say? That they half-arsed it because they assigned the tea-lady to do it?
No one has called you that, people have pointed out that the article text in full is not quite as definitive as your post implied.
Based on what is said the article the dev never drove the actual car, only the virtual version, and the wording of the article is clear in its attempts to blur what is being claimed, with regard to the exact accuracy of the recreation.
Good job no-one did then!
No, they pointed out that the article text in full is not quite as definitive as your post implied, and that you missed out on a rather significant piece of context.
The piece is interesting and of value to the community, the manner in which you presented it, and then started to throw inaccurate and misleading accusations about isn't. You will stop claiming people are calling you a liar until the point you can actually support that with some evidence, and you most certainly will stop with the passive-aggressive approach that seems to be your new normal.
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- 5,697
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
If I could step in here @Konan. It's all well and good supporting the game you (indirectly) work with; I do it all the time.
However, there's a balance to be struck between providing information and "defending". Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and as a result everybody is entitled to disagree with said opinions if needs be.
When people disagree on those things, it is (typically) not a personal attack, however in the modern world of games discourse many people form such strong attachments to brands that they form part of their personalities, and as such any criticism of those brands is seen by them as a criticism of themselves.
This mindset is the primary driver behind the "console wars", review-bombing and whatever iRacing fans get up to when Austin Ogonoski used to post videos. If you (or anybody else) senses that that is the driving factor behind your discussions online, it's best to take a step back, look at the facts of the topic (if any are available) and deliver those; then deliver opinions afterwards in a more balanced manner.
Games and brands don't need white-knighting
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I feel like there is more distance than necessary between some opposing viewpoints here, given that, like @Tornado said, the methodology SMS used to model the car is extremely ordinary. It has little to do with a developer's credibility and nothing to do with the accuracy of the physics engine interpreting any fabricated specifications -- for or against.
- 6,511
- Shropshire
- IfAndOr
A very well thought out post @PJTierney 👍
(And it also attracts further antagonistic Black Knights who know exactly what they're doing)
And sorry, I asked the Nissan question in the first place.
I chose to back out at the time when I saw where the discussion was heading!
While I understand the approach developers use to model the cars and their handling I was wondering if Nissan had any input into this. It seems they did, so question answered.
Quite right. It's not like you're defending the honour of a fair maiden.
(And it also attracts further antagonistic Black Knights who know exactly what they're doing)
And sorry, I asked the Nissan question in the first place.
I chose to back out at the time when I saw where the discussion was heading!While I understand the approach developers use to model the cars and their handling I was wondering if Nissan had any input into this. It seems they did, so question answered.
- 2,043
- United Kingdom
- AWRacing17
A very well thought out post @PJTierney 👍
Quite right. It's not like you're defending the honour of a fair maiden.
(And it also attracts further antagonistic Black Knights who know exactly what they're doing)
And sorry, I asked the Nissan question in the first place.
While I understand the approach developers use to model the cars and their handling I was wondering if Nissan had any input into this. It seems they did, so question answered.
You don't need to feel bad for how the discussion went or feel like you had an influence in it,
In fact I am going to buy this pack and the legends pack this weekend and give it a go (despite my feelings on how the game and studio are indirectly represented by some people), comparing the cars to each other around Sugo will be a bit of fun
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