No FF Lift Off Oversteer

[AndyT88]

Has anyone else noticed poor FF behaviour when lifting off?

I have tried various front engined, front drive cars in game that I have driven in real life and none of them oversteer when snapping off the throttle mid corner like their real life counterparts.

Just doesn't fill me with confidence that the new physics engine is as comprehensive as it should be.

 

[Vagabond]

No, it seems to be the MR cars got all the lift-off oversteer. In fact FF cars understeer more when you lift off... not sure how that works but hey ho.

 

[AndyT88]

I tested 10 FF cars back to back, each one I tried my best to induce lift off oversteer at various speeds, with no luck.

Even tried Scandinavian flicks but still the back end is glued to the track.

Very depressing.

 

[MahouShoujoChan]

Meanwhile the midships are damn near undrivable. it's like they got the traction backwards

 

[Brainhulk]

Man that is weird. When i used the leaf in gt academy, it had plenty of LOS.

Forgive my use of the line...lol

 

[Conza]

I've done lift off oversteer in real life, and thinking about what happens when you do it, you're basically transfering weight to the rear axel, whilst cutting power to the front wheels at the same time, which makes the front turn in sharper, and the back swing out - right?

But if the physics weren't exactly correct, I could see this causing understeer, if the physics engine focused purely on the fact that the front wheels had less traction, without taking into account the added turning of the un-powered wheel.

Great car to do with this is the Peugeot 106 Rallye/S16, managed to do it all the time in GT5, should be pretty cheap to (great FF for low PP races anyway imo).

EDIT:

Man that is weird. When i used the leaf in gt academy, it had plenty of LOS.

Forgive my use of the line...lol

Could you please point out exactly where it happens? I think I saw it happen once in that vid (overtaking 3rd?), but again, that Leaf was way too much body roll anyway.

 

[Brainhulk]

I've done lift off oversteer in real life, and thinking about what happens when you do it, you're basically transfering weight to the rear axel, whilst cutting power to the front wheels at the same time, which makes the front turn in sharper, and the back swing out - right?

But if the physics weren't exactly correct, I could see this causing understeer, if the physics engine focused purely on the fact that the front wheels had less traction, without taking into account the added turning of the un-powered wheel.

Great car to do with this is the Peugeot 106 Rallye/S16, managed to do it all the time in GT5, should be pretty cheap to (great FF for low PP races anyway imo).

EDIT:



Could you please point out exactly where it happens? I think I saw it happen once in that vid (overtaking 3rd?), but again, that Leaf was way too much body roll anyway.

Uhhhhh...every time i countersteer. I never had to countersteer in gt5 in fwd

 

[Conza]

Yeah I saw that, but its not as dramatic as lift off oversteer, thats mild oversteer isn't it? you just counter steer a jolt and its gone, lift off you need to hold the wheel in the opposite position for a few seconds...

 

[fifomaniak]

What cars did you try? MiTo understeers like a pig, Fit understeers less, but still needs a lot of work to make it oversteer, however Clio R.S. oversteers nicely with a bit of agression and lifting off the throttle. Lift-off oversteer doesn't happen in every car, only in some. And you still have to be agressive to reach it, it won't do it when you are in the middle of the corner and slowly release the accelerator.

 

[focusST300]

I've tried clio rs, megane rs, focus st-new-(the gearbox of that car is a joke ..come on PD fix it.. ) and scirocco r ...among these I find that the Scirocco R is the only FF car closest to the real thing/feeling..

Lift off oversteer ..still no ..But, with "flick" does the job and you have the fun factor you want from a FF car ..to a level..

To be fair, the difference between gt5 and gt6 to all FF cars (car physics) in general is noticeable and PD is in a good path.. but they're not "there" yet..

 

[fifomaniak]

If you think a car will suddenly oversteer in the middle of the corner when you lift of the throttle, no that won't happen. Not in modern cars, way too dangerous. Some old 911s, yes. But not in modern car.

See? It needs flick and quick movements, not slow reactions.

 

[mongoosetierney]

own a 13' plate focus ST( I'll be making a separate thread about the disaster PD calls a gearbox later) but yea FF and MR cars dont handle right. Okay its a game,but it dubs its self as the simulator. The focus ST will Lift off oversteer easily, even with TC fully on, and it's great fun. Can't wait to track it next year. Here's just one vid showing lift off o/s in the focus. Skip it to about 18m in

Jay

 

[Higgy]

Great car to do with this is the Peugeot 106 Rallye/S16, managed to do it all the time in GT5, should be pretty cheap.

I have an original 1.3i 106 Rallye in the real world. In the dry there is a lot of chassis movement with changes in throttle pedal while tight cornering.

Recently I went for a drive, currently in the UK the roads are greasy and wet, and I managed to have a massive moment. The car was fishtailing down the road, thankfully getting back on the throttle got her straight again. Gulp.

Maybe we should try these FF cars in wet conditions on GT6, see what the difference is.

I expect PD don't know much about these lesser known 'classic' cars that are not JDM. Both the 1.3 and 1.6 Pug 106 Rallye's have very 'on cam' engines. Until about 5k rpm is dialled in nothing happens (think VTEC without the tech). The engine noise completely changes. I am not sure if the gear ratios are correct. Certainly the 1.3 is one of the closest ratio production gearboxes.

 

[vilonosec]

Engine braking is a joke as well. If you roll 6k rpm at first gear and lift off, your car will be stopping as fast as if you pressed brake pedal all the way down. But not in GT6.

New physics they say? Hardly ever, lol ))

 

[Johnnypenso]

Engine braking is a joke as well. If you roll 6k rpm at first gear and lift off, your car will be stopping as fast as if you pressed brake pedal all the way down. But not in GT6.

New physics they say? Hardly ever, lol ))

I've been as harsh a critic as the next guy over the GT series and yes, this is a missing element but hardly significant in the grand scheme of things. But if you've driven any number of cars in this game you must know the physics model is completely revamped. Yes they missed out on this, but overall it's a much better experience driving now than it ever was in the GT series.

 

[andre_pt]

I have an original 1.3i 106 Rallye in the real world. In the dry there is a lot of chassis movement with changes in throttle pedal while tight cornering.

Recently I went for a drive, currently in the UK the roads are greasy and wet, and I managed to have a massive moment. The car was fishtailing down the road, thankfully getting back on the throttle got her straight again. Gulp.

Maybe we should try these FF cars in wet conditions on GT6, see what the difference is.

I expect PD don't know much about these lesser known 'classic' cars that are not JDM. Both the 1.3 and 1.6 Pug 106 Rallye's have very 'on cam' engines. Until about 5k rpm is dialled in nothing happens (think VTEC without the tech). The engine noise completely changes. I am not sure if the gear ratios are correct. Certainly the 1.3 is one of the closest ratio production gearboxes.

Those are such fun cars! I dream of owning one someday! Owned a saxo vts\cup and apart of giving me lots of engine troubles lol, it was still good fun to drive it down a twisty road!

 

[fifomaniak]

Oh, and I've forgotten. Maybe try lower grade tires, as in GT series it seems Comfort are the road tires, Hard being something like an ordinary tire (but from good manufacturer, nothing Chinese, let's say Yokohama C-Drive), Medium are higher class tires, with good grip (Yoko S-Drive), and Soft seem to be something more for a track than on a road (Yoko Advan Neova for example). These are my impressions looking at the amount of grip they have.

 

[focusST300]

If you think a car will suddenly oversteer in the middle of the corner when you lift of the throttle, no that won't happen. Not in modern cars, way too dangerous. Some old 911s, yes. But not in modern car.

See? It needs flick and quick movements, not slow reactions.

see?
Where did i mention anything about "slow reactions" or said anything else.. Yes, you need to do many little things before lift off oversteer to ff car and it's obvious that you had to be fast..

hehehe ok ..come on!! nice drive lesson/advice by Harris(my fav car journalist btw), but you don't see my point.. flick is one way and lift off (changes in throttle pedal while tight cornering, as Higgy said, placing the car before the turn..) is another way and the result is the same... oversteer. And If someone combine these, the result is the same again.. oversteer. Major factor here are the tires, suspension, and road quality on how easy you do that..

Hot ff cars like clio rs, megane rs, focus st, scirroco r and many others(old or new) the use lift-off oversteer -without the need of flick- to their advantage for a different approach to a turn ..it's not dangerous (if you know what you're doing..) it's progressive and controllable..

And all that is not in gt6, maybe later, maybe in gt7.. They did better job this time but still. That's all i said.


(I'm not Harris, but believe me my friend, since '87 i don't "think" how a hot ff car behave.. i know )

1:48 (by Harris again)

 

[35mm]

you're basically transfering weight to the rear axel

Not "to", but "from". You're transferring the weight to the front, unloading the back.


Anyway, GT does suck at lift off oversteer. Always did.
The only exception I remember was the Ford Focus RS. And even that was only in GT Concept 2002 Tokyo-Geneva. It already sucked again on GT4.
And it's a shame.

 

[vilonosec]

I've been as harsh a critic as the next guy over the GT series and yes, this is a missing element but hardly significant in the grand scheme of things. But if you've driven any number of cars in this game you must know the physics model is completely revamped. Yes they missed out on this, but overall it's a much better experience driving now than it ever was in the GT series.

I didn't play GT5 all that much, got like 35 lvl and all licenses/all events. I can't find any huge difference between GT5 and GT6. Yes suspension now feels present, body rolls more, but that's it. Cars are still driven strange. Not similar to real cars i'd say.

I used to drive focus ST 2013, subaru impreza wrx, i drive mustang gt every day, track included. I can say that the way cars act in GT6 has nothing similar to real life cars. Like focus has nice and smooth oversteer when you lift off on corner entry, subaru has HUGE understeer on out of the corner, mustang spin wheels easy and has understeer on stock suspension as well - i can't find any of that behavior in GT6. Whatever is changed, it has nothing to do with "simulation" of real world cars.

 

[OdeFinn]

Just tried on focus '13, can't understand are you guys using some aid or how you can say at there isn't that lift off steer.
Its there, if you don't notice it you can check mirror.

 

[AndyT88]

I haven't tried the focus myself, but you're on about 1 vehicle.

I've driven cars in game that I've driven in real life and they do not act the same. End of. Which says to me the physics are just broken.

 

[LVracerGT]

The "MR cars are broken" is getting kind of comical. There's nothing wrong with them, people need to learn how to drive them. I haven't had an issue with one MR or RR car yet.

I do agree with FF cars having too little lift off oversteer.

 

[LVracerGT]

The "MR cars are broken" is getting kind of comical. There's nothing wrong with them, people need to learn how to drive them. Everyone has this perception that because they were semi-planted in GT5 they should be easy to drive on GT6. Sorry guys, more realistic physics means you have to drive realistically as well. MR and RR cars are tail-happy in real life and require a different driving style than FR cars. I haven't had an issue with one MR or RR car yet.

I do agree with FF cars having too little lift off oversteer.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Just tried on focus '13, can't understand are you guys using some aid or how you can say at there isn't that lift off steer.
Its there, if you don't notice it you can check mirror.

Yep Focus is fine, if anyone can't get it to lift off oversteer then they aren't driving it properly

http://s990.photobucket.com/user/AMD_knockhill2/media/MyMovie16_zps26930aae.mp4.html

 

[danardif1]

own a 13' plate focus ST( I'll be making a separate thread about the disaster PD calls a gearbox later) but yea FF and MR cars dont handle right. Okay its a game,but it dubs its self as the simulator. The focus ST will Lift off oversteer easily, even with TC fully on, and it's great fun. Can't wait to track it next year. Here's just one vid showing lift off o/s in the focus. Skip it to about 18m in

Jay

Seeing as you're an owner of said car you would know how complicated and unique the suspension and differential system is on the current Focus. It's not something that is easily replicated in any game engine that works on 'traditional' suspension setups and doesn't model things like Torque Vectoring that are so key to the ST's unique handling characteristics.

 

[danardif1]

The "MR cars are broken" is getting kind of comical. There's nothing wrong with them, people need to learn how to drive them. Everyone has this perception that because they were semi-planted in GT5 they should be easy to drive on GT6. Sorry guys, more realistic physics means you have to drive realistically as well. MR and RR cars are tail-happy in real life and require a different driving style than FR cars. I haven't had an issue with one MR or RR car yet.

I do agree with FF cars having too little lift off oversteer.

The R8 LMS GT3 car is very unstable in it's base setup, but there are players already getting their heads round it with some good tunes. Even so it does take some adjustment in driving style, I haven't quite got it yet.

 

[Turismo10]

I find the best way to induce lift off oversteer is to run a lesser compound tyre on the rear and run the rear higher than the front, if I run Sports Softs on the front I'd go for Sports Hards on the rear - I find this improves laptimes as the rear isn't gripping the same as the front which causes understeer.. Give it a try

 

[enog]

To all the people saying that there is no lift off oversteer on FF, are you sure you haven't got SFR turned on?

 

[LVracerGT]

The R8 LMS GT3 car is very unstable in it's base setup, but there are players already getting their heads round it with some good tunes. Even so it does take some adjustment in driving style, I haven't quite got it yet.

That car has been plagued by handling issues in real life until last year's schedule. So it's not broken, that's actually how the car handled when they modeled it. I actually wish they'd update the car, but you're correct that a tune can make a world of difference.