No FF Lift Off Oversteer

[danardif1]

That car has been plagued by handling issues in real life until last year's schedule. So it's not broken, that's actually how the car handled when they modeled it. I actually wish they'd update the car, but you're correct that a tune can make a world of difference.

I wasn't suggesting it was broken, just that it has been a problem car for some (as most would expect a customer GT3 car to be pretty good out of the box) but progress has been made on it.

I didn't realise it had suffered handling issues IRL, where did you hear about that (not doubting you, just interested)?

 

[LVracerGT]

I worked for a Mazda/Mercedes/VW/Audi dealership (just recently terminated for leasing a Fiesta ST) and was talking to my service manager who is also a race fan. We were talking about the Audi R8's finishing 1-2-3 at Daytona and he's the one who told me how much work Audi have done to cure the handling issues on that car.

 

[danardif1]

I worked for a Mazda/Mercedes/VW/Audi dealership (just recently terminated for leasing a Fiesta ST) and was talking to my service manager who is also a race fan. We were talking about the Audi R8's finishing 1-2-3 at Daytona and he's the one who told me how much work Audi have done to cure the handling issues on that car.

Cool... interesting to find out, might go and dig some more on it now... you've piqued my interest!

Back on topic as well: I know some others have pointed it out, but the Clio RS displays a lot of the lift-off characteristics some are bemoaning a lack of... perhaps it achieves this effect through it's more traditional suspension setup rather than the admittedly clever electronics the Ford and others do.

 

[LeadFootLiam]

I have noticed lots of liftoff oversteer in FF cars, some more than others. But if it's not happening for you, you need to be more aggressive with the car.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I find the best way to induce lift off oversteer is to run a lesser compound tyre on the rear and run the rear higher than the front, if I run Sports Softs on the front I'd go for Sports Hards on the rear - I find this improves laptimes as the rear isn't gripping the same as the front which causes understeer.. Give it a try

Technically that is lift off oversteer, but not because of the games base physics model, but because you are putting dramatically more grip on the front and overpowering the rear grip. It's like saying a car oversteers dramatically then responding with , "no it doesn't just put racing softs on the back". In real life do these FF's have dramatically better rubber on the front or does the inherent characteristics of the car induce oversteer?

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

In real life, I drive an Impreza wagon (4WD) with a 22mm rear anti-roll bar set to simulate 24mm. It will lift-off oversteer... But it's in the tuning setup... And driving.



When I drive, I get neutral, even, smooth steering. When my dad drives it, he sometimes "chickens out" mid-corner and lifts off of the throttle after rolling back on... Causing a small shift in weight that would lead to oversteer if he braked. But, in snow, if I accelerate, brake, or turn, it will oversteer.



Again, though: it's about tuning setup and driving.

 

[Johnnypenso]

In real life, I drive an Impreza wagon (4WD) with a 22mm rear anti-roll bar set to simulate 24mm. It will lift-off oversteer... But it's in the tuning setup... And driving.

When I drive, I get neutral, even, smooth steering. When my dad drives it, he sometimes "chickens out" mid-corner and lifts off of the throttle after rolling back on... Causing a small shift in weight that would lead to oversteer if he braked. But, in snow, if I accelerate, brake, or turn, it will oversteer.

Again, though: it's about tuning setup and driving.

Thanks Captain obvious saying it's about tuning setup and driving

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

It is obvious... That's why I'm saying it.

For those who are saying that the physics are wrong because there's no lift-off oversteer, examine your driving and tuning setups.

 

[watermelon punch]

It is obvious... That's why I'm saying it.

For those who are saying that the physics are wrong because there's no lift-off oversteer, examine your driving and tuning setups.

You have a good point there.
I didn't realize that people were actually blaming it on overall flawed physics before now.

(Frankly I haven't read this whole thread, just one of the posts showed up in my news feed!)

I honestly thought they were just complaining about particular cars not exhibiting features known to have.

I seem to remember noticeable lift-off oversteer in some FF cars in GT5. Have those changed to where they don't anymore?
And if so, how can this be blamed on the overall physics, rather than the particular car - either stock set up or with tuning?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

My take on GT6 tire compared to real life : comfort hard is similar to factory all season road tires ( AVID Ascend and Touring S ), comfort medium is similar to high performance road tires ( Yokohama Grand Prix M7, AVID Envigor ), comfort soft is similar to extreme performance summer tire that can be used on track day - very close to semi slick ( S Drive, Advan Sport V103 as factory fitted on 370Z -OEM , up to Advan Sport V105). Sports Hard, Medium and Soft tires will be similar to road legal track approved semi slick - sports soft similar to Advan Neova A048 DOT R, sports hard similar to Advan Neova LTS AD05/06, sports medium similar to Advan Neova AD08R.

I made a replica of Kei Office Zenki S14 Sivia - mild power bump at 260PS, I used comfort medium as it has YH GP M7, and it drives like a dream at Willow Springs.

With FF road cars - stock, I would go for comfort hard or medium for newer hot hatch. If the FF car has more power - mild tune, comfort soft is the 1st choice. Above 300HP for FF cars, I would recommend sports hard/medium.

The Toyota GT86, BRZ and FRS would have comfort hard when stock

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Well, as far as ITCC cars go, the oversteer is still there.


I'm using it as an example because a generic FF tuning setup in ITCC normally involves a very aggressive tune towards oversteer... Like, for example, 4 front roll bar, 7 rear roll bar, 0.00 degrees of toe, and very stiff rear spring/damper rates... Basically, the cars are tuned to rotate. If you overdrive, the cars tend to oversteer more than understeer.


So, I'm a bit confused by what the problem is, why people don't like FF cars for a lack of lift-off oversteer.

 

[AndyT88]

The physics for FF cars are just broken. It's irrelevant that the Focus does it or if this car does it.

The fact is, driving the cars I've driven in real life in the game, wind lock on, snap off the throttle, the car doesn't oversteer. End of. Something isn't right.

Whether their reference data is wrong for the majority of cars, possibly.