Not good at all...

[///M3]

Incredibly debatable. Those races, and indeed, championships, constituted a campaign. Much like how the Menus constitute a campaign.


By reaching the signified end point set by the developers? In GT's case, that's usually been the credits gained after beating the GT World Championships in the older games, and indeed, Kaz said in the lead up to the release of GT7 that the traditional 'end' of the game was after completing the final menu and watching the credits roll. No different then 'completing' a narrative driven game, except the methods for doing so are different. And GT is no different in that regard.


If GT is going to continue flying the flag of a structured, Car-PG style of game, then they absolutely should add more races right off the hop instead of cutting content to the bone to give themselves the ability to bring it back in later updates to make up the difference and be patted on the back for being supposed good guys. Really, I'm just going to quote Famine since he gets at the issue better then I can:



That, and actually offer some semblance of difficulty, and rewards for choosing a higher difficulty, instead of masking the same slow and dumb AI under difficulty settings that don't matter in the grand scheme of things because most of the difficulty comes artificially from AI being halfway around the track when you start the race.


I'd say that racing can be grinding, due to the reasons outlined above. And considering Polyphony, by their own admission, made car collecting a major part of the game, invariably it means one's going to have to be grinding if they want any of the big game hunting vehicles to finish a scrap book.


Good for you. I'm playing the game by the way Polyphony wants me to - buying cars, tuning them up, and racing. And all three of these aspects have various levels of problems that absolutely needs to be addressed, and criticized.


That, or you're not willing to listen to the problems outlined by the literal highest ranked member of the staff not named Jordan, reviewers from reputable sites, and people in this very thread, including myself, and think that your reasons for playing the game are applicable to all, when they aren't anywhere close.

It’s too much to read at this time of night.

But to clarify one point. “When the developers set the end point”

Isn’t that the trophies?

Look it’s cool we disagree and I feel sorry you feel annoyed. As a person that still owns the first one on disc and the second one with 2 discs the one with the “car smell” I don’t feel as vehement about it as you do.

That’s cool.

I found the campaign a barrier to me doing what I wanted to do which was take cars round tracks I want.

I’m tuning cars like I have done to optimise spend and buying wisely versatile cars for the challenges and cups?

Also, I want to be very clear opinion is opinion regardless of “rank” or long standing. While some come with more credibility than others it does not mean it automatically makes it defacto truth, or even populous opinion if that was the case it wouldn’t be a forum, it would be a congregation.

 

[AlexWilmot]

Lol - he intentionally posts an edited low-res pixellated screenshot from youtube then says "I dont care about the resolution", incredible confirmation bias.

"Vanilla Ice has sold more records than Eminem, I don't care about records sales"

Don’t forget the video is actually GT Sport not GT7

 

[Deni323]

Haven't bought the game yet because, well why pay 70 euros for something that will be 30 euros 1 month after release, and I actually expected to be overhyped just like GTS was.

And boy do I NOT regret!

From what I've read from comments(not paid articles) the game is basically:

• Very short career that is done in like 3 days.
• Not many events, nothing to do except custom races like those are fun with crap AI...
• AI is same as in GTS(which was VERY VERY bad)
• Online racing is broken
• No BOP so to be competitive you need to spend hours and hours just to tune your car instead of keep it fair and keep BOP so it's actually driving skill vs driving skill

BUT the game looks great!!! yeah so what do you do? just look at virtual cars whole day...wow sounds exciting.


Marketing, strong PR and selling the story is more important than quality of the actual product and this is just another example of it.

GT went all Assassins creed, selling its soul and making half product BUT with the same brand name(Assassins creed series, Project cars 3 etc...)

Not touching it until it hits like 15 euros on sale or used, I'm good with my PC2 with ton of content and stuff to do.

 

[///M3]

If you've completed cafe mode, when you go back to the "World Circuit" there is the list of championships at the bottom of the page, I'm sure you know what I'm referring to. If you scroll over them it will tell you the license type required in order to enter.
The only licenses that are needed are National B and National A. We have International B, International A, and Super license tests, but we do not have the corresponding career mode and races that utilize those licenses. Every game in the series has had IA/IB/S licenses and races (I think... can't remember if Super was added after GT2 or not) Even GT Sport, once they added the content that became the "Spec II" version, had these race types. So it's very clear we are meant to have those higher level races and championships since the licenses are included, PD just didn't include them at launch.

This is a big reason why people are complaining about the game being so cheap with the credit payouts, as it was the IB/IA/S races that have historically paid 100-300k+ for winning a race. Since all we have are the National license races we're seeing fairly low prize money relative to the cost of buying tires/turbos/parts in general, as well as the price of high-end vehicles. If you think about it we've always had GT500 (Gr. 2) championships, LMP/Group C (Gr. 1) championships, Lambo Cup, and since GT5, go-cart, Formula, and Red Bull races, all of which are glaringly absent. The same goes for large endurance races that take hours to complete, which we again do not have. Half of the standard offline content is absent, that is why I have a problem with the game in its current state.

If you go to each region and select a track it shows you all the events you can do “in your career” but now you have all the cars that would be competitive for you.

The only difference is how they have laid the screens out to get to them.

The game is ok, few niggles here and there and definitely not stopped you doing all the menus and licences and missions

So in its current state it’s a good game with free dlc coming.

It’s gonna be painful for you though as I think they have a few years content strategy planned out…

 

[Theufcveteran]

At this point I don’t think GT is a true racing simulator as much as it is a driving simulator. That is, competitive AI and racing comes second to cars and the passion for them.

That’s not to say GT doesn’t pay attention to racing, because it definitely does. The physics at their core are by all accounts very good and the best in series history. But you see it in the way the game is presented - it’s less about pure motorsport and more about cars, learning about them and experiencing what they’re like to drive.

I’m not defending PD here, while I really like GT7, I do think it is light on the content side as it pertains to races from what I’ve heard, and some of the decisions are odd - lobby settings, for one. And now with reducing rain and smoke effects - an option to toggle that would’ve been appreciated so those who don’t want the spray can turn it down/off, those who do can leave it on or turn it up if the default was a lower setting.

The driving missions do go a good way to giving the player more to do but they’re not races with your own car, they’re more akin to modified license tests.

GT7 is a very good base and has a good amount of content overall, but needs more when it comes to regular races because whether the focus lies with motorsport or cars itself, you still need to buy them and right now you have to go back and grind races you’ve already completed.

 

[chromatic9]

I don't own the game but it will be interesting to see what PD add to the game over the next 6 months and see if they can relax the grind a bit for the expensive cars. The money cap is very odd to me, let's say you have 20mill built up and are waiting for the car, you really have to stop playing/grinding? You should be able to build up your funds for these rare cars.

With the campaign stuff we used to talk about various championships they could do on here for the last 20 years. It should be possible to have many adrenaline pumping events. I'd expect the single player mode to have been well established by now and cars earmarked to make a decent grid. But forgetting all that, to not have their own endurance races is bizarre.

A barren GT Sport took them 4 years into the PS4 life cycle to release.

This weather system sounds awesome but sounds utterly wasted potential. Maybe GT 8 will be the big one it all comes together. Updates is one thing but how many will be around?

 

[///M3]

At this point I don’t think GT is a true racing simulator as much as it is a driving simulator. That is, competitive AI and racing comes second to cars and the passion for them.

That’s not to say GT doesn’t pay attention to racing, because it definitely does. The physics at their core are by all accounts very good and the best in series history. But you see it in the way the game is presented - it’s less about pure motorsport and more about cars, learning about them and experiencing what they’re like to drive.

I’m not defending PD here, while I really like GT7, I do think it is light on the content side as it pertains to races from what I’ve heard, and some of the decisions are odd - lobby settings, for one. And now with reducing rain and smoke effects - an option to toggle that would’ve been appreciated so those who don’t want the spray can turn it down/off, those who do can leave it on or turn it up if the default was a lower setting.

The driving missions do go a good way to giving the player more to do but they’re not races with your own car, they’re more akin to modified license tests.

GT7 is a very good base and has a good amount of content overall, but needs more when it comes to regular races because whether the focus lies with motorsport or cars itself, you still need to buy them and right now you have to go back and grind races you’ve already completed.

Agree with the last point, but the game is centred around cars first. Ethos, history uniqueness and the racing is tacked on (chase the rabbit????)

But the driving is the key, but in a difficult to master easy to use way. It’s a console game that has to be accessible, and for all the great sims out there they just aren’t accessible for the 11 PS5 owners but in all seriousness you might as well compare GT games to FIFA games the essences are there the desire is there the commitment is there but also is pragmatic compromise to be accessible and make money quite honestly.

GT games are a good balance imo.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

Don’t forget the video is actually GT Sport not GT7

Yep, confirmation bias at it's finest.

 

[Silver Arrows]

But to clarify one point. “When the developers set the end point”

Isn’t that the trophies?

Oh come on. This is shooting for the trees in not understanding the point.

I want to be very clear opinion is opinion regardless of “rank” or long standing. While some come with more credibility than others it does not mean it automatically makes it defacto truth, or even populous opinion if that was the case it wouldn’t be a forum, it would be a congregation.

I think a staff member's opinions should be held to a higher regard then random Joe Blow. Especially when it comes how the game is structured, and the lack of content within said single player that Polyphony put much more effort into now that their grand online racing experiment blew up in their face.

But you see it in the way the game is presented - it’s less about pure motorsport and more about cars, learning about them and experiencing what they’re like to drive.

The issue is that this argument falls apart the second you remember what genre we're in - racing games - and the fact that racing ultimately is what you have to do to get the cars you learn about, and experience how they are to drive. So it would behoove PD to put some time to the AI they've ignored for a decade now, and make it better.

 

[mwoodski]

Haven't bought the game yet because, well why pay 70 euros for something that will be 30 euros 1 month after release, and I actually expected to be overhyped just like GTS was.

And boy do I NOT regret!

From what I've read from comments(not paid articles) the game is basically:

• Very short career that is done in like 3 days.
• Not many events, nothing to do except custom races like those are fun with crap AI...
• AI is same as in GTS(which was VERY VERY bad)
• Online racing is broken
• No BOP so to be competitive you need to spend hours and hours just to tune your car instead of keep it fair and keep BOP so it's actually driving skill vs driving skill

BUT the game looks great!!! yeah so what do you do? just look at virtual cars whole day...wow sounds exciting.


Marketing, strong PR and selling the story is more important than quality of the actual product and this is just another example of it.

GT went all Assassins creed, selling its soul and making half product BUT with the same brand name(Assassins creed series, Project cars 3 etc...)

Not touching it until it hits like 15 euros on sale or used, I'm good with my PC2 with ton of content and stuff to do.

It's only done in like 3 days if you're playing like 12 hours a day.

The AI is pretty good in the Clubman Cup Plus events, not in the chase the rabbit Menu Book stuff.

Also, just because BOP exists doesn't mean you don't tune a car. Do you really think that in real racing series that use various kinds of BOP that all the cars are locked to using fixed setups and the teams aren't allowed to change settings to suit the tracks and driving styles of their teams? If so, you have a ton to learn.

 

[///M3]

I think a staff members opinion is his opinion. As I said it comes with more credibility but no more than mine or anyone else’s.

And I don’t want to be deliberately facetious but what is the end point of a driving game? This one is part Pokémon part drive as much as you can and get better?

And just to be a bit dick about it, when I take my cars or bike to the track for no reason other than to drive them, like drive my cars or bike on a track?

This game lets me do that for free?

I think we are really talking cross purposes here.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

I think a staff members opinion is his opinion. As I said it comes with more credibility but no more than mine or anyone else’s.

And I don’t want to be deliberately facetious but what is the end point of a driving game? This one is part Pokémon part drive as much as you can and get better?

And just to be a bit dick about it, when I take my cars or bike to the track for no reason other than to drive them, like drive my cars or bike on a track?

This game lets me do that for free?

I think we are really talking cross purposes here.

Some of the people in this thread (not the OP) will hate the game regardless of what you come back at them with and are more or less hitting refresh on their browser to get the last word in "win", I think it's better left at that.

 

[250 GTO]

I was referring back to how people on here reacted when GT Sport came out vs how Polyphony addressed it in GT7 and people reacted to that.

But good to see that you're one of those people who exclusively only read the headline/title/first line of something and assume they already know the rest of the content purely for the sake of venting a disproportionately aggressive flame-response. You go win those internet arguments brother!

Fair enough, if that is indeed the case, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. That’s my fault

 

[Silver Arrows]

Some of the people in this thread (not the OP) will hate the game regardless of what you come back at them with and are more or less hitting refresh on their browser to get the last word in "win", I think it's better left at that.

I'm trying to understand their points, especially when their views on how they play GT7 is ultimately nowhere close to where the vast majority of players are playing the game as, and specifically, the way that Polyphony designed GT7 as. If you believe that is 'hating the game regardless' and believe that it's me trying to get a win in an argument, then this is all pointless.

 

[grainqey_5yj]

I've not yet tried it but I tried to set up a custom race and struggled to get it over 20k per race and that was group 2 or 3, I want 60 laps grand Valley speedway with 300k or something 😂

I do understand the op's view as I feel a bit that way at the moment, it feels very short currently and not much pre structured content as far as races and championships - surely they've looked at the full list of tracks and catagories from the previous games 🤔

I'm personally waiting for the cars and tracks update and will try to save up money by grinding a bit

 

[Pizzicato1985]

It’s gonna be painful for you though as I think they have a few years content strategy planned out…

Yes, content that had always been included at launch. You just don't get it; don't what else to even say...
Glad you're pleased with your purchase, just wish I could say the same about mine.

 

[///M3]

Yes, content that had always been included at launch. You just don't get it; don't what else to even say...
Glad you're pleased with your purchase, just wish I could say the same about mine.

Im 40 years old, so maybe my pragmatism is more reasoned. Who knows.

Im sad you don’t like it. I do and luckily I have my game in front of me to play and not yours.

 

[cirospm]

Sony and Polyphony launches the content in very small doses. They love to play with people's patience. Look at GT Sport, thousands of updates for nothing substantial. Only some new cars and tracks. GT7 still missing so much tracks. I think they are coming in future updates, but should be already out (Monaco/Cote D'Azure, Citta di Aria, New York, Seattle, Hong Kong, Tokyo Route 246 and others i can't remember right now... also night/day, snow/rain/wet/clear, is simply missing... GT Sport had enourmous downgrade in terms of content and GT7 needs more tracks urgently)

 

[kilesa4568]

Sony and Polyphony launches the content in very small doses. They love to play with people's patience. Look at GT Sport, thousands of updates for nothing substantial. Only some new cars and tracks. GT7 still missing so much tracks. I think they are coming in future updates, but should be already out (Monaco/Cote D'Azure, Citta di Aria, New York, Seattle, Hong Kong, Tokyo Route 246 and others i can't remember right now... also night/day, snow/rain/wet/clear, is simply missing... GT Sport had enourmous downgrade in terms of content and GT7 needs more tracks urgently)

GTS was a new direction for the franchise and advertised as such and if they hadn't given in and hadn't added the career stuff everyone needed, I might not have been so distracted from what I actually bought it for. Online racing.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Very short career that is done in like 3 days.

I've been playing since day 1 and have yet to finish. But I don't have 15 hours a day to zoom through it either.

 

[Theufcveteran]

The issue is that this argument falls apart the second you remember what genre we're in - racing games - and the fact that racing ultimately is what you have to do to get the cars you learn about, and experience how they are to drive. So it would behoove PD to put some time to the AI they've ignored for a decade now, and make it better.

I’m not defending it, I want better AI - I think it’s seriously lacking and focusing on the driving doesn’t mean you should have slow AI. It’s more that I think this is why it’s the case. I don’t think it should be like this since we race in these games and that’s a significant part of the experience but I wonder if the focus on driving is why they barely touched the AI.

This doesn’t apply to Sport so it could be a completely moot point. But I do wonder if they see it more as just a means to earn cash to obtain the cars, and that’s the real meat of the experience from their perspective.

Again, I don’t think that’s a good excuse for poor AI because no matter how you look at it, racing is a large part of the game. Solid AI means there’s something for both racers and collectors, or for those who enjoy both.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I’m not defending it, I want better AI - I think it’s seriously lacking and focusing on the driving doesn’t mean you should have slow AI. It’s more that I think this is why it’s the case. I don’t think it should be like this since we race in these games and that’s a significant part of the experience but I wonder if the focus on driving is why they barely touched the AI.

I know you aren't defending it, FWIW. I just believe that the reasons that Polyphony believe the AI isn't worth fixing/saving (and why people ultimately fall in line with their beliefs, as blinkered as that is) runs contrary to the entire point of racing games, which GT absolutely still is, no matter how many flowery terms that they use to dance around that fact. And how it doesn't even help them when most of their game's ancillary features still need racing in order to get into them.

 

[kilesa4568]

I’m not defending it, I want better AI - I think it’s seriously lacking and focusing on the driving doesn’t mean you should have slow AI. It’s more that I think this is why it’s the case. I don’t think it should be like this since we race in these games and that’s a significant part of the experience but I wonder if the focus on driving is why they barely touched the AI.

This doesn’t apply to Sport so it could be a completely moot point. But I do wonder if they see it more as just a means to earn cash to obtain the cars, and that’s the real meat of the experience from their perspective.

Again, I don’t think that’s a good excuse for poor AI because no matter how you look at it, racing is a large part of the game. Solid AI means there’s something for both racers and collectors, or for those who enjoy both.

I'm using the tried and trusted GT method of using a nerfed car against the quickest AI and had some great close races.

I do agree with you though. Always starting in last and chasing down the leader's 20-30 second lead gets old real quick.

 

[///M3]

ah the AI sucks badly, always has done. They cheat by making it faster but decision wise it’s poor.

But then if you come back to what GT is about, it’s about cars “real driving simulator”

I used to think that meant racing game, but it doesn’t, at least not to Kaz

For me it means what I enjoy is countless times trying to drive like Walter rorhl round the ring in a RUF yellow bird.

I will forever try to create that lap, lap after lap after lap. That is a driving simulator to me.

All the trophies they annoyingly pop up occasionally all the credits the just sort of magically appear after a while.

Driving is a pleasure that is gonna go in the next couple of generations and Sunday morning blasts are gonna go with them.

If it was any other sim why did GT6 put the moon landing rover in or JL garage collection.

I’m done for tonight and probably a while now. Just gonna enjoy my game the way I want and it is for me a very nice nod to the original games.

 

[Pizzicato1985]

Im 40 years old, so maybe my pragmatism is more reasoned. Who knows.

Im sad you don’t like it. I do and luckily I have my game in front of me to play and not yours.

We're the same age, and my pragmatism tells me I should be getting what I paid for, when I paid for it

 

[Samus]

Over the next few years I’ll take hundreds of cars round the ring just to see what they are like, do countless hours and get no credits for it.

And how will you pay for them? Lots of people want to do that, but they need to get the cars first.

 

[jonathansp]

Never saw someone complaining about gt4 career...
So so much content, 15 races league, qualification, 700+ cars.
Now TWENTY years later, 1 day campaign, 2 online races lel.
But fanboys luv racing anywhere so who cares about career they just need 1 car and 1 track.

One day campaign?

 

[Strittan]

The career mode (Menu Books) sucks, hence why I rushed through it just to get it over with.

Overall it’s not as great as many reviewers make it out to be. There are so many things that annoy the crap out of me. What I hate the most are the “chase the rabbit” races in which you start, on some occasions, half a lap behind the leader. Why aren’t all races like the 🌶 ones? Oh, and the AI is probably the dumbest and most annoying in the history of gaming, let alone the series.

 

[Theufcveteran]

I'm using the tried and trusted GT method of using a nerfed car against the quickest AI and had some great close races.

I do agree with you though. Always starting in last and chasing down the leader's 20-30 second lead gets old real quick.

Yeah, I’ve had some really close ones, too, it helps make it more exciting but like you say, chasing down the rabbit does get old. Would be great if we could fight from start to finish in equal machinery.

 

[///M3]

And how will you pay for them? Lots of people want to do that, but they need to get the cars first.

Time, just time and effort my friend.