Not good at all...

[Strittan]

Right. 1 week in to a driving game? Driving is an effort because you can’t have more stuff when you want!

The economy is tight but FOR ME isn’t an issue.

Im sorry it’s not great for you. Luckily I get to play my game. Sucks about yours though hope you get everything quickly without racing.

Edit: grammar and typos

Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad for you, but the fact that you refuse to see why others might have a problem with the in-game economy is what bothers me.

I get to play my game too, and I too really enjoy driving my favourite cars at the tracks I enjoy the most, but it could’ve been way more fun to earn some decent amount of credits than it is.

 

[///M3]

Hmmm. Sounds like the same thing to me. They/we want the cars so we can drive them around a track. Why else would be buy a car game? The game is heavily restricting the ability to do that. For you, and for me, even if you pretend it doesn't.

So many contradictions here. You keep banging on about liking driving, and wanting to do it in lots of cars, whilst ignoring that you're not going to be able to do that if you don't do the events that give you credits, and if you want them at a decent rate, you're going to have to do the same ones over and over.

People don't want or expect everything without racing. People want a variety of pre-made events to complete that will earn them credits in a reasonable amount of time whilst enjoying a range of cars and tracks. There are barely 100 races in the World Circuits Menu, the custom events pay out peanuts, so do most other things. Now players have discovered if you want to earn the highest rate of credits, there is ONE event that is head and shoulders above the rest. So your choices are repeat that one event and drive yourself crazy, or drive the lower payout events and take even longer to earn credits. THAT is what people have an issue with.

You said above you'd be happy earning 100K a day and in two months you'd have enough money. Well by my maths, that's only 6 million credits. You could blow that on just three cars, or it might not even be enough for one car. The total cost of cars so far, with 76 not priced, over 250 million credits.

So I again ask how you're going to drive hundreds of cars around the empty track if you can't afford to buy them? Where are the credits coming from for any one of us who just wants to drive and race all the cars in the game? So far all you've come up with is "Just play the game every day for two years solid", and I really don't think that is reasonable. That wasn't required with the previous games.

I was going to reply.

I lived through 25 years of GT and I got all the cars in each game, even hit the limit for the garage in the early games.

So you go figure it out like I had to.

 

[Samus]

I was going to reply.

I lived through 25 years of GT and I got all the cars in each game, even hit the limit for the garage in the early games.

So you go figure it out like I had to.

I've already figured it out, it was FAR easier in those games.

 

[Techlet]

People have figured it out. It just requires grinding Fishermans over and over.

That's boring.

PD can make it less boring by adjusting payouts in other races to be more in line. Why do you want them to not do that and give more players access to more cars?

 

[///M3]

I've already figured it out, it was FAR easier in those games.

I've already figured it out, it was FAR easier in those games.

Not as 15 year old when I played them and JDM stuff was rarer than unicorns.

On worse platforms. Leaving it running while I went to school, not even understanding how momentum mechanics worked.

Yeah it was so easy.

So easy I’m mad that this game isn’t and I have to earn money for stuff.

Bring back those easy days.

 

[Silver Arrows]

PD can make it less boring by bringing payouts in other races to be more in line.

Or hell, even adding more events. Classic GT style events, Like The Wind for example, within the World Circuits pavilion in order to make more use of the tracks, more use then they've gotten in the base game. Surely would be more interesting then grinding Fisherman's Ranch over and over again - if I wanted to play hours and hours of a rally game, I'd go play DiRT Rally 2.0, where at least I can get kicked in the nuts and it's mostly my fault for binning it into a tree instead of an AI driver.

This list of events in GT6 is a good start and good source of inspiration. Polyphony, call me.

 

[///M3]

Or hell, even adding more events. Classic GT style events, Like The Wind for example, within the World Circuits pavilion in order to make more use of the tracks, more use then they've gotten in the base game. Surely would be more interesting then grinding Fisherman's Ranch over and over again - if I wanted to play hours and hours of a rally game, I'd go play DiRT Rally 2.0, where at least I can get kicked in the nuts and it's mostly my fault for binning it into a tree instead of an AI driver.

This list of events in GT6 is a good start and good source of inspiration. Polyphony, call me.

one week. Literally one week.

 

[Techlet]

one week. Literally one week.

Five years. PD had five years to make this game.

 

[Samus]

I've already figured it out, it was FAR easier in those games.

Not as 15 year old when I played them and JDM stuff was rarer than unicorns.

On worse platforms. Leaving it running while I went to school, not even understanding how momentum mechanics worked.

Yeah it was so easy.

So easy I’m mad that this game isn’t and I have to earn money for stuff.

Bring back those easy days.

Yes it was far easier, you're just misremembering because of how daunting everything was as a 15 year old, and how you could only play it a couple of hours each night after school or at weekends. I remember the first time I played GT2, I would have been 12 or 13. When I saw the Endurance Races I was shocked. You want me to drive for 2 whole hours?! That's forever! Now as an adult 2 hours is really not daunting. Things are different from a younger perspective.

People have illustrated countless times how factually faster it was to earn credits and in turn cars in the old games. It just was. Your memory may be clouded, but the facts are facts. Cars didn't cost as much in the old games, you could sell prize cars, there were high paying races that could get you any single car in 2 hours or less. Not 9-10 hours like GTS and GT7.

Play the old games again as an adult some time, perhaps then you'll realise how different they really were from the current.

 

[CrimsonKing]

Many people here are completely wrong. This "game" is not about sitting in your racing rig and driving as fast as you can while fighting head to head with other racing enthusiasts to see who comes first at the end of the race or championship. Hell no. It's about sitting in your rocking chair while you sip some tea and look at beautiful cars while listening to Vivaldi.
I made the same mistake but now I've learned the hard way.
The collector's edition should have come with a blanket and a GT themed tea set.

 

[McLaren]

This is ultimately the thing. There's no real market value with regards to the Legend Cars pavilion, it's all set by what Polyphony believes it should be set at. And what is stopping them from jacking the prices up to the 20 million cap when they see that people are getting money a bit too well?

To my understanding from Famine's article, that's all supposed to be priced in accordance with real world values, hence the Hagerty tie-in. If they were to suddenly take the Ford GT Mk. IV from the $4.5m cr. price I believe I saw, to $20m cr., that would completely negate the entire point of that partnership or intention of the pavilion. So, I don't see that happening so drastically.

However, I'm an avid follower of the exotic market, so I've seen what the real world prices have touched on, esp. the well-known, record-setting appreciations of the last 2 years. Going off @Samus ' thread of pricing, some of the ones that stand out to me are the '61 250 GT Berlinetta at $5,200,000, the '95 F50 at $3,300,000 & the '70 Porsche 917k at $18,000,000. Just off those 3, both Ferraris are undercut: 250 GTs are bare $8 million cars now & the F50 is trading just under $4 million. The 917K is probably on point; one was seeking $16-18.5 million last year. Looking at a few more, some might be a tad high, some are low, the Supra GT500 at $1.5m cr. is an interesting one as SuperGT cars are literal unicorns & such an iconic example would fetch far, far more. PD has roughly set the pricing in line with where auction prices have been though, so ultimately, credit is due.

But, if people are fully intending to play this game for the next 3-5 years (& PD is actually serious about this pavilion by letting Hagerty set "real-world, dynamic values"), then these cars will be more expensive each time they get cycled through. I would expect maybe, PD to take some liberty though & not set it everything so realistically to the last figure paid.

 

[SestoScudo]

We have to wait for updates.

This live service model is whats destroying games especially when old features are cut and dumb down now we have to wait for to them to come back in updates.

We are basically becoming mediocore at this point which is a shame.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

We have to wait for updates.

This live service model is whats destroying games especially when old features are cut and dumb down now we have to wait for to them to come back in updates.

We are basically becoming mediocore at this point which is a shame.

I came to GT7 from Forza Horizon 5 hoping to get away from this exact problem, but it looks like I wasn't so lucky.

 

[SestoScudo]

I came to GT7 from Forza Horizon 5 hoping to get away from this exact problem, but it looks like I wasn't so lucky.

Its the standard nowadays unfortunately.

I hope the constructive criticism continues.

All our voices should be heard.

 

[Samus]

We have to wait for updates.

This live service model is whats destroying games especially when old features are cut and dumb down now we have to wait for to them to come back in updates.

We are basically becoming mediocore at this point which is a shame.

It's true, but that's why I don't buy games at launch any more.

 

[Pizzicato1985]

To my understanding from Famine's article, that's all supposed to be priced in accordance with real world values, hence the Hagerty tie-in. If they were to suddenly take the Ford GT Mk. IV from the $4.5m cr. price I believe I saw, to $20m cr., that would completely negate the entire point of that partnership or intention of the pavilion. So, I don't see that happening so drastically.

However, I'm an avid follower of the exotic market, so I've seen what the real world prices have touched on, esp. the well-known, record-setting appreciations of the last 2 years. Going off @Samus ' thread of pricing, some of the ones that stand out to me are the '61 250 GT Berlinetta at $5,200,000, the '95 F50 at $3,300,000 & the '70 Porsche 917k at $18,000,000. Just off those 3, both Ferraris are undercut: 250 GTs are bare $8 million cars now & the F50 is trading just under $4 million. The 917K is probably on point; one was seeking $16-18.5 million last year. Looking at a few more, some might be a tad high, some are low, the Supra GT500 at $1.5m cr. is an interesting one as SuperGT cars are literal unicorns & such an iconic example would fetch far, far more. PD has roughly set the pricing in line with where auction prices have been though, so ultimately, credit is due.

But, if people are fully intending to play this game for the next 3-5 years (& PD is actually serious about this pavilion by letting Hagerty set "real-world, dynamic values"), then these cars will be more expensive each time they get cycled through. I would expect maybe, PD to take some liberty though & not set it everything so realistically to the last figure paid.

I don't follow the exotic market at all, so what you're saying is we almost certainly will be seeing 15+ million credit cars?
When the Ford MkIV popped up for 4.6mil I was thinking that we might be looking at a cap of 5-6mil on a single car...
Not sure how I feel about it. If we had the full game, with IB/IA/S races along with events that pay out well then I'd be (will be if/when we get it) fine with it. Guess I need to get a 10-12mil credit buffer built up in case something I want appears after all

 

[Yard_Sale]

To my understanding from Famine's article, that's all supposed to be priced in accordance with real world values, hence the Hagerty tie-in. If they were to suddenly take the Ford GT Mk. IV from the $4.5m cr. price I believe I saw, to $20m cr., that would completely negate the entire point of that partnership or intention of the pavilion. So, I don't see that happening so drastically.

However, I'm an avid follower of the exotic market, so I've seen what the real world prices have touched on, esp. the well-known, record-setting appreciations of the last 2 years. Going off @Samus ' thread of pricing, some of the ones that stand out to me are the '61 250 GT Berlinetta at $5,200,000, the '95 F50 at $3,300,000 & the '70 Porsche 917k at $18,000,000. Just off those 3, both Ferraris are undercut: 250 GTs are bare $8 million cars now & the F50 is trading just under $4 million. The 917K is probably on point; one was seeking $16-18.5 million last year. Looking at a few more, some might be a tad high, some are low, the Supra GT500 at $1.5m cr. is an interesting one as SuperGT cars are literal unicorns & such an iconic example would fetch far, far more. PD has roughly set the pricing in line with where auction prices have been though, so ultimately, credit is due.

But, if people are fully intending to play this game for the next 3-5 years (& PD is actually serious about this pavilion by letting Hagerty set "real-world, dynamic values"), then these cars will be more expensive each time they get cycled through. I would expect maybe, PD to take some liberty though & not set it everything so realistically to the last figure paid.

And perhaps this game is also teaching us about inflation as well. Which having said that, PD and Sony are actually cutting us a huge break

 

[McLaren]

I don't follow the exotic market at all, so what you're saying is we almost certainly will be seeing 15+ million credit cars?
When the Ford MkIV popped up for 4.6mil I was thinking that we might be looking at a cap of 5-6mil on a single car...
Not sure how I feel about it. If we had the full game, with IB/IA/S races along with events that pay out well then I'd be (will be if/when we get it) fine with it. Guess I need to get a 10-12mil credit buffer built up in case something I want appears after all

Nah, I don't think they'll be quite so extreme unless they're already hovering around there like the 917K. There's a few things we have to remember.

Some of these cars are usually valued by whatever the last example or so went through, typically because they become available so rarely, so such huge increases are pretty rare. For example, a 917K sold for $14m in 2017 & last year, one returned w/ a high bid at $15m. Not really a giant leap, that's just what time has afforded the car. Otherwise, the market has basically determined $14-15m is the ceiling. With the 250 GT, only a couple come onto market each year & they've been pretty consistent with their prices as well. Then you get to something like the F50 where a few end up available each year, & they fluctuate a bit as miles & condition play a bigger role in evaluations. In 2020, one sold for $3.2m, one high bid at $2.5m, & one sold for $2.1m. Then, in 2021 a boom occurred and they sold for $3.8m, $3.9m, $3.85m. In a week, I think another will eclipse $4m. With the Ford GT40, different Mks & specific chassis seem to dictate their values. A Mk.IV likely sold for $2.5m-$3m last year, but there are MkI & IIs that exceed $5m. Prototype examples cross the $7m threshold. It's a wide range for PD/Hagerty to mess with if they wanted to, but I think at $4.6m, they're shooting for an average value of the range overall.

That being said, the more I give it thought, the more I think I need to retract my statement a bit & believe PD will take a more friendly approach with it. For one thing, the rotation frequency has to play a role. You can't rotate in a F50 a couple times a month set to real world values, or the price would only change 4-5 times a year, but that wouldn't really be any fun to watch progress over time. What I think PD might do is change values by $20k-100K+ each time, depending on the car & when a real one sells, they'll make some adjustment for the in-game values with Hagerty's input. So, if a F50 auctions 3-4 times a year in the real world, then we might see a big change in the Legendary Pavilion's F50 3-4 times a year as well before it goes back to normal fluctuations in-between real world sales.

So yeah, I don't believe there will be any drastically gigantic changes done just for the sake of it, even over 3-5 years. However, if the idea is to replicate what Hagerty values these cars at, then the prices will have to make noticeable leaps over time. If the F50 enters the game around $3,300,000 & increases/decreases over time around that median, by 2024 for GT7 if PD is sticking the script, the median will eventually move up to $4,000,000 to represent the realism in appreciation it's after w/ Hagerty's partnership. Some cars may just as easily go down, some like the 917K probably still equal, the GT500 Supra, who knows. Hell, maybe nothing really changes & I get a bit disappointed wanting to see how closely PD/Hagerty were looking to make it realistic b/c as said, I think most of the prices seen are roughly within' reason.

 

[xMAXIx79]

I always find it terrifying...
Something is getting harder to achieve.. and immediately people are complaining about it.. The game has been playable for a week now and people are whining about the possibility that cars are being traded for 20M and these players don't have that 20M yet. People notice something... PLEASE!!!

And whoever complains about being "forced" to "have to" drive the Fischermanns all the time, sorry doesn't have all the "slats on the fence" for me anyway. Drive another race and "earn" a little less per hour.. Where is because the problem?
How the hell do you get along in real life when the smallest challenge frustrates you so much that you have to complain so bitterly here. Haven't you ever experienced the meaning of humility in your life, or how satisfying it can be to really work hard for something?

 

[AutumnalGlow]

I always find it terrifying...
Something is getting harder to achieve.. and immediately people are complaining about it.. The game has been playable for a week now and people are whining about the possibility that cars are being traded for 20M and these players don't have that 20M yet. People notice something... PLEASE!!!

And whoever complains about being "forced" to "have to" drive the Fischermanns all the time, sorry doesn't have all the "slats on the fence" for me anyway. Drive another race and "earn" a little less per hour.. Where is because the problem?
How the hell do you get along in real life when the smallest challenge frustrates you so much that you have to complain so bitterly here. Haven't you ever experienced the meaning of humility in your life, or how satisfying it can be to really work hard for something?

A game is meant to be fun, not a job. Yes, work often means doing the same repetitive task for hours in real life, but that doesn't mean I want to do that type of work in a game.

One hour of racing in a custom race is about 60k. Since there aren't many pre-made races to do in the first place, custom races are the main source of variety. Note that going over an hour in a custom race actually rapidly decreases the ratio of how much money you earn vs how much time you race. A 24 hour race will not earn more than double what would be earned in a 1 hour race. And 200 laps of the Nordschleife is not even 1,000 Cr more than 150 laps.

So with that out of the way, ideally you'll only do races up to an hour, since anything more is a waste. 60k/hr is already very low and you don't really want to go lower. A 600k car is a 10 hour grind, now. A 6M car, 100 hours. There aren't many cars sold for 60k or less. Most cars will take hours of driving, each.

The current estimated total cost of all of the cars in the game is over 250M. From custom races, it would take over 4,000 hours to be able to afford them all.

Somebody who does custom races 12 hours a day for 2 years would finally be able to buy them all.

Or more realistically, an average of 1 hour per day. Some days more races, some days none. It would take 11 years.

And this is with an incomplete estimate, with many legend cars missing. It could total over 300M. Add a few more years.

ETA: This isn't difficulty. A grind isn't a challenge, of anything but your patience. Nobody is upset that the game is difficult. It isn't. We're upset that the game is unreasonably grindy.

Oh, and here's a fun fact. at $20 for 2,000,000 Cr, it would cost $2,500 to buy all of the cars through MTX. Of course, 250M is actually the rounded down number, and the count isn't complete yet anyway, so realistically it's far more than $2,500.

Source for the total price is here:

The credits cost of all 454 cars in Gran Turismo 7 [489 Million total]

Credit to @Famine for the base car list. ---------------------------------- Current Stats (Last Updated December 15th, 2022) All figures are based on the US/Europe credits. Credits in the Japanese version of the game are vastly different. Prices of Used Cars can vary depending on their...

www.gtplanet.net

 

[Techlet]

That's for the cars alone. The tuning parts can easily add up to be just as expensive as the cars themselves.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

That's for the cars alone. The tuning parts can easily add up to be just as expensive as the cars themselves.

Very good point.

I guess in all we can expect people to play for 20+ years, yeah?

 

[xMAXIx79]

A game is meant to be fun, not a job. Yes, work often means doing the same repetitive task for hours in real life, but that doesn't mean I want to do that type of work in a game.

One hour of racing in a custom race is about 60k. Since there aren't many pre-made races to do in the first place, custom races are the main source of variety. Note that going over an hour in a custom race actually rapidly decreases the ratio of how much money you earn vs how much time you race. A 24 hour race will not earn more than double what would be earned in a 1 hour race. And 200 laps of the Nordschleife is not even 1,000 Cr more than 150 laps.

So with that out of the way, ideally you'll only do races up to an hour, since anything more is a waste. 60k/hr is already very low and you don't really want to go lower. A 600k car is a 10 hour grind, now. A 6M car, 100 hours. There aren't many cars sold for 60k or less. Most cars will take hours of driving, each.

The current estimated total cost of all of the cars in the game is over 250M. From custom races, it would take over 4,000 hours to be able to afford them all.

Somebody who does custom races 12 hours a day for 2 years would finally be able to buy them all.

Or more realistically, an average of 1 hour per day. Some days more races, some days none. It would take 11 years.

And this is with an incomplete estimate, with many legend cars missing. It could total over 300M. Add a few more years.

ETA: This isn't difficulty. A grind isn't a challenge, of anything but your patience. Nobody is upset that the game is difficult. It isn't. We're upset that the game is unreasonably grindy.

Oh, and here's a fun fact. at $20 for 2,000,000 Cr, it would cost $2,500 to buy all of the cars through MTX. Of course, 250M is actually the rounded down number, and the count isn't complete yet anyway, so realistically it's far more than $2,500.

Source for the total price is here:

The credits cost of all 454 cars in Gran Turismo 7 [489 Million total]

Credit to @Famine for the base car list. ---------------------------------- Current Stats (Last Updated December 15th, 2022) All figures are based on the US/Europe credits. Credits in the Japanese version of the game are vastly different. Prices of Used Cars can vary depending on their...

www.gtplanet.net

Then just be fair... and judge or question why the rewards for custom races are so weak.

Precisely because many have "exploited" it and manipulated the races to earn credits. That should not and cannot be the purpose of the races and games in general. If I have 1 hour every day for the game, then I don't spend it in a user-defined race if I really want to "earn" as many credits as possible.. then drive the routes that I have the most fun on and on where I can still earn as many credits as possible.
In addition, for those who want everything immediately or very easily.. there is the possibility to buy credits... have fun with it. For my part, I think it's absolutely fine the way it is. Could there be more variety? Yes, of course, bring it on.. should there still be difficult challenges? But for sure!
But the game is online for 1 week!!! I'm sure there's still a lot to come and if I'm too bored by then... then I'll just play something else or go for more/longer walks with my wife and my dog!

 

[AutumnalGlow]

In addition, for those who want everything immediately or very easily.. there is the possibility to buy credits... have fun with it.

That possibility is the exact reason we're in this position right now. The entire reason the game is such a slog is that PD wants you to buy microtransactions. There was no reason for it to be this way beyond that. The older games did not take anywhere near as absurdly long and had more to do.

 

[Samus]

In addition, for those who want everything immediately or very easily

That person still doesn't exist no matter how many times it's mentioned.

Literally nobody has said they want to have all the cars after a week. Please read properly.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

The way that one or two people are persistently negative in this thread (and in every other thread), building a massive "anti" narrative where everything Polyphony does is bad and then claiming to be their biggest fan, it just reminds me of someone that I'll only refer to as "EH"

"EH" did the exactly same thing with a leading motorsport championship: continuously blasted said championship, vilified the championship, and would go out of his way to find negative coverage of the championship so he could spread it across numerous social media groups. . . . "EH" is now blacklisted because when he applied for a job in motorsport then found all of the above with one google search.

And no, he wasn't blacklisted for "having an opinion", he was blacklisted for more or less slandering the sport and bringing (or at least trying to) it's name into disrepute.

 

[Techlet]

If PD goes out of their way to blacklist people discussing the game in an open forum, then there's a lot more wrong with the company than just their design philosophy.

 

[jonathansp]

A lot of the time, people think their opinion is the opinion of everyone else, so their complaint is therefore valid.
I don't see any issue with the amount of money I'm getting. If I had any more, I'd be able to buy what I want when I want and we're only a week or so in. I've already noticed I'm earning more than what I was at the beginning and it feels like a decent pace to me.
I'm sure buying the cars in the millions is meant to feel like an achievement.
If earning the money to buy cars is such a chore, surely having everything available for free would be a better choice.. but it's not.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

If PD goes out of their way to blacklist people discussing the game in an open forum, then there's a lot more wrong with the company than just their design philosophy.

I mean in reference to people trying to get a job there, you can't slag a place off and expect them to hire you and be like "Oh but I'm entitled to my opinion! Freedom of speech!". . . some of the comments on this forum go beyond just criticism and border on slander, I've seen one of two people go as far as flatout personally insulting the studio staff.

 

[///M3]

Cross posted.