nurburgring corvette wrs lap 5'40.591 video

  • Thread starter holl01
  • 19 comments
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Woo! I remember this week, i came second last only to casio with his 18minute time. I dont like the nurb realy, but stunning lap there dan 👍 Its even complete with all the classic background noises :lol:
 
Yeah great lap, i thought you were a gona a the top of the hill when you were on the grass. Good job:):)
 
At the 2'56 mark of the video there is a wall touch.

And before that it looks like you had 4 wheels off the track at one point.

I will review the rest of the lap.

EDIT....

40 second mark definitely 4 wheels off. (Most definitely 3 - possible right front still on track)

I consider two wheels on the track the 'majority' of two wheels and not a 'sliver'.

Other than those two things, good lap though. It is a hairy one though.
 
The replay file was watched and it passed as clean under the rules of the WRS. As you know, the replay file is much better quality than that video.
 
The replay file was watched and it passed as clean under the rules of the WRS. As you know, the replay file is much better quality than that video.

True that the replay file is ALWAYS better quality than the video.

But from my vantage point from the video... It sure does look like it's not clean.

But you can see my concern if you look at the 0'40 and 2'56 points of that video.

EDIT...

Reviewed closer, 40 second mark would pass.

I'm still weary of the 2'56 mark. In the replay file according to video, it would be 2'55.136 - It sure does look like the cars gets a nudge. >.<

If you look what happens between 2'54.9xx and 2'55.1xx of the 'replay time' you will see what I mean. It's angle of the 'Vette to the wall and sudden change of direction.

Not to sound rude, but if this was a 'WRS' time, and I had run it - I would have ran it again, no offense.

I think the best case for 'close calls' is just to run it again.
 
But you can see my concern if you look at the 0'40 and 2'56 points of that video.

I can see where it's close, yes. But it passed as clean, so there is no point going on about it.
 
And so it begins.
It is not 'starting'.

And to daan.

If it was passed as clean, then it was.

But here is my point.

This is the second video in the 'same location' of Holl01 that he has come 'this close' from hitting that wall.

I know it is not intentional, that is obvious. I'm just saying in the future he might want to 'alter' his line a bit so that spot is 'never close'.

He came close in the Minolta one as well (although, not as close as this one was.)

Because here is a scenario.

Say sometime down the line there is a Nurby lap for the WRS and I'm running in it (or take someone else for example if not me) and Holl01 ends up winning by .1 or less.

If he is that close to the wall again, and my lap (or someone else's) has no close spots, then if it looks 'that close' again, then the person who ends up second might feel cheated for the fact he/she had no close spots whatsoever. That is what I am saying.

What if the person who ended up second kept 4 on the track at all times and there was a time that had this obvious 'questionable' spot.

All I'm saying is maybe he should just alter the line he takes a bit, and not leave it close.

Yes, the rules state 2 wheels on the track at all times, and no wall touches. However - this time albeit was classed as 'clean' - it does have this spot that is pretty darn hairy.

In the future I would like to see Nurby times from Holl01 'not' leave that wall to chance and alter his line a bit. So I would have no question in my mind whether it was clean or not.

And I think that the 'fast racers' out there, including myself, should try and stick to a higher standard than 'close' calls, because we can do the laps again.

I know for me when I'm running, it's a difference of .5 to .7 a lap on longer tracks for my 'normal' and 'peak laps'. Which means I can do it again pretty easily. (Shorter ones the gap is smaller generally)

What I am saying is that if others are like me in that means in which they could 'touch up' a spot, they should do that and not use a 'fast time' that has a questionable spot.

Albeit the time is 'clean' by the rules, I think as 'racers' we should not leave 'close' to chance.

That's my 2 cents.

In my opinion, I think the rules should be changed to 2 wheels on track at all times for races, and 4 (atleast 3) wheels on track at all times for a lap time.

And I also think that this would lead to more 'fun' in the online scene, because 'pushing too hard' is generally what leads to this close calls, and sometimes people say 'I think this is clean' and then submit it with a question in their mind.

I think a good rule of thumb is: If there's something 'questionable', run it again.

But that's just my opinion.

And I'll say this for another reason.

'Some' of the WRs from GT3 (and close times to the record) required using 'rumbles' and cutting things 'close' in some occasions.

I could do 1'17s all day without the rumbles at GVS easy. To get a 1'15.474 that I have, I had to resort to 'aggressive driving' that you would not do in a real lap. And the result was 2 seconds faster.

Quite frankly I did not 'like' having to resort to this, because I did not feel it was a 'good thing' to do. Yes, it's legal, but still - I wish we could have more 'strict' rules for an official 'competition'.

Once again, that's just what I think. I do not know other people's opinions.

And I would also like to add on a different topic:

I would like to see 'races' of like 10-15 lappers be run more often when I start racing because of the fact I stated above.

Because it would actually give someone a reason to do a bit of 'hotlapping' beforehand, in order to be 'ready' for the race.

Maybe a round of practice (the hotlap) and the race itself for the second part of the competition. (I think that would be a great idea)

But, this is holl01's thread, and I will not 'hijack' it with my thoughts. I will carry them elsewhere.
 
Ugh....Where to start on this....

The rules are black and white, at least 2 wheels on the track or rumble strip at all times. No contact with the wall. That's it. As long he conforms to that it doesn't matter.

If he misses the wall by 1mm or has 3 mm of tyres on the rumble strip then it doesn't matter. Holl01 would have checked that point to see if it was inline with the rules before he submitted it and therefore it wasn't questionable.

I wish we could have more 'strict' rules for an official 'competition'.
How can they be any stricter? You have 4 wheels off the road for .001 of a second that's illegal. It's stricter then it is in real life racing.
 
I know it is not intentional, that is obvious. I'm just saying in the future he might want to 'alter' his line a bit so that spot is 'never close'.

He came close in the Minolta one as well (although, not as close as this one was.)

Because here is a scenario.

Say sometime down the line there is a Nurby lap for the WRS and I'm running in it (or take someone else for example if not me) and Holl01 ends up winning by .1 or less.

If he is that close to the wall again, and my lap (or someone else's) has no close spots, then if it looks 'that close' again, then the person who ends up second might feel cheated for the fact he/she had no close spots whatsoever. That is what I am saying.
You play to the rules, James. If you don't like them, don't take part. Oh, wait a minute, you don't...

When, exactly, was the last time you took part in a real, organised OLR?
 
And so it begins.

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<-- Jerry
 
If someone pushes the envelope, more than you are willing to, then that is up to them. As long as they are within the rules, then you cannot complain.

In the last boards challenge, it was decided that all concrete areas at Deep Forest could be driven over. I did not agree with this, as did a few others, and we tried to get the rules changed before the challenge started. They weren't changed. I still did not use any concrete areas. I chose to have at least 2 wheels on the track at all times. I was last. I did not complain that others chose to use the concrete areas, as that was clearly within the rules of the competiton.
 
i have never submitted a lap that i wasnt 100 percent sure of its cleanliness, i took a few shots of different angles and deemed the incident at 40 second mark clearly within the rules and the 2 minute 40 mark incident, well, i would be digging my own grave if i were to submit a lap with a wall touchas they can easily be identified with a close examination of the data logger... anyway, thanx for ur comments lightning regarding the lap, glad u and everyone else has enjoyed it, cheers
 
Whew, tough on the eyes. Write a whole paragraph, or make one 'enter' each time... Please, I'm already with hideous glasses.

OK, and now, responding. Where should I start?

The Rules: As others above said, it's legal as long as he has a single atom of both wheels on the track - and it's also legal if there's a layer of single atoms between the car and the wall. There are two ways of WRS'ing - the fast way, and the other way (Needs a name). The Fast way consists of using everything allowed that is needed to make a lap faster - be it concrete, rumbles, or 1.99999+1.99999 wheels on the track (3.99998 doesn't work :P). Others, like me, only use what they feel is within the limits of their skill - I can't control the Oreca Viper with a wheel on the grass, so I stay within the rumbles. Holl01 will probably get two wheels off. However, when it's within my limits, I use everything I need - this week, at Hong Kong, I used the concrete of the corners, to make cornering faster and wider. On Week 70, I had two wheels on the rumbles, as seen in this shot. Meanwhile others race, as much as they can, with all four wheels off the track.

About close calls: On the picture above, even though it was only a couple of millimetres away from the green thing, there were still 2 wheels on the rumbles - therefore clean. On this (Hong Kong) week, I had a lap (which was my best until today) where I had extremely-close calls - I couldn't even decide if contact was visible. Only the analyzer solved this - the verdict was clean. No speed-drops at all. But should I scrap it because it was "close", though still not "dirty"?

About aggressive driving: That's one of the main aspects in hot-lapping: How far can you push the car on rumblies and stuff, without being dirty? Holl01 is a master at this - and this is one of the things that make him so fast (just one of them, though). I can't, and this is why I'm Div3, and not D1.

And about results: No, I won't feel cheated on if someone wins by 0.001 because he used a part I didn't know of. He knew the track/car better, and he won through superior driving. As long as it's clean, I'm fine with it.

So my 'rule of thumb' is: If it's questionable, let a buddy check it. If more than two people say it's clean, it's clean, most of the time. If it's dirty, re-run.
 
First of all, I need to say that the replay has been checked in due time and found legal. (I understand that no-one here suggested to re-consider the results for week 64, but I want things to be clear).

It's an interesting situation (for me at least), because I must admit that over the past year I've spent hours (literally) checking Dan's replays because he is skilled enough to be able to drive on the edge for a whole lap, even on the Ring. So where it takes 5 minutes to check someone else's close calls, it takes 30 minutes to check Dan's because he's close to the limit most of the time.
Yet, I must add that I've never found any of his close calls being dirty.

I took a look in the replay at the 2 moments you mention.

0'38
Two wheels are on the grass, the two other ones are mostly on the grass too, but still in contact with the tarmac (see pic below).
The usual OLR rules state that 2 wheels have to be in contact with the track and the common interpretation allows the contact to be as thin as a pubic hair, so that situation is perfectly legal.
I would personally prefer 2 wheels totally on track (if not 4), but I find it better to race by the most commonly used rules.


2'56
The car is extremely close to the wall, there is a direction change (under braking), but there's nothing that suggests it could be due to a contact with the wall rather than to steering.
It would be pretty hard if there is a contact to freeze the replay at the exact moment and take a pic of it. Especially when the suspected contact is a wall brushing. The Data logger is a better option, I checked it, and there is absolutely no spike indicating a speed drop at that moment.
 
I'm just glad Holl01 makes a video once in a while. It's the only way us NTSC user can view his amazing runs. Thanks for the vid Holl01. :)
 
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